Darlington v AFC Telford

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LoidLucan
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:20 pm

Anyone else hear word that Harry Dunn was at the game yesterday running the rule over someone for the hangers?

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:24 pm

LoidLucan wrote:Anyone else hear word that Harry Dunn was at the game yesterday running the rule over someone for the hangers?
Well he was there, is he picking up some scouting work for Pools these days?

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by AndyPark » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:23 pm

I’ve heard two things.

1. He’s scouting Luke Trotman for Hartlepool.
2. He’s retired and isn’t working for anyone, was just taking a game in.
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LoidLucan
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:30 pm

If it was trotman he will have been impressed by that amazing run in the first half when he seemed to go past virtually everyone in the telford side and we nearly scored.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by al_quaker » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:38 pm

LoidLucan wrote:Anyone else hear word that Harry Dunn was at the game yesterday running the rule over someone for the hangers?
How much of the debt which was run up under Singh did we end up paying off? That should be our starting price if Hartlepool come asking about any of our players

en passant
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by en passant » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:48 pm

More Chinese whispers. I don't think any Darlo players were the subject of interest, and after that performance neither were any of the Telford players.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:53 pm

D_F_C wrote:I think if you look at the league table and add the 2 points on that we should have got against Blyth then I would have thought that would have been a fair assessment on how we’ve been.

Perhaps another 2 points away to spenny would take us close to playoffs


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Why should we have got three points against Blyth? We drew 1-1. Regardless of chances etc, all that matters is we scored the same amount as Blyth, therefore we deserve only a point.

If you do that, then every other team will say something similar. I'm sure Ashton would say they should have beaten us a fortnight ago. It means nothing.

Let's not go down the route of dwelling on what should have happened - it's entirely arbitrary, pointless and self-indulgent.
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:48 am

Just watched the post match interview (see link below)with Gavin Cowan the Telford Manager.
Talk about a manager with blinkers on! Yes you have to be super confident and believe in yourself and your team but this guy it a bit over the top.
He says Darlington won because they were out fought, yes thats true, but we also played the better football, and to be fair the score should have been 5 as we hit the post and the bar.
He also says that, on paper, they have much better players than us - I can't say I recognised any of their players to be honest.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by jjljks » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:04 am

Fans Lottery Admin wrote:
jjljks wrote:Clean sheet, great win against #2 in league without several key players. Youngsters stepped up and Wheatley return.
Only bug was I missed the game..... :mrgreen:
What was the attendance?
Attendance was 1212

(you missed a treat!)
Thanks, but no need to rub in what I missed. Was thinking of asking Kev if he could do a fuller version of the 15mn highlights. Even the weather looked good in 2nd half. Well done all round! Now at with crossed fingers on a decent FA cup draw :thumbup:

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by D_F_C » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:37 am

Darlogramps wrote:
D_F_C wrote:I think if you look at the league table and add the 2 points on that we should have got against Blyth then I would have thought that would have been a fair assessment on how we’ve been.

Perhaps another 2 points away to spenny would take us close to playoffs


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Why should we have got three points against Blyth? We drew 1-1. Regardless of chances etc, all that matters is we scored the same amount as Blyth, therefore we deserve only a point.

If you do that, then every other team will say something similar. I'm sure Ashton would say they should have beaten us a fortnight ago. It means nothing.

Let's not go down the route of dwelling on what should have happened - it's entirely arbitrary, pointless and self-indulgent.
Not sure I understand why I shouldn’t be speculating about ‘what might have been’. I was simply giving an opinion about how I feel we’ve done so far this season based on performances and points. My conclusion is we weren’t too far off but if we’d got the 2 points that we definitely deserved against Blyth then we’d be about right


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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by shawry » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:40 am

D_F_C wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
D_F_C wrote:I think if you look at the league table and add the 2 points on that we should have got against Blyth then I would have thought that would have been a fair assessment on how we’ve been.

Perhaps another 2 points away to spenny would take us close to playoffs


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Why should we have got three points against Blyth? We drew 1-1. Regardless of chances etc, all that matters is we scored the same amount as Blyth, therefore we deserve only a point.

If you do that, then every other team will say something similar. I'm sure Ashton would say they should have beaten us a fortnight ago. It means nothing.

Let's not go down the route of dwelling on what should have happened - it's entirely arbitrary, pointless and self-indulgent.
Not sure I understand why I shouldn’t be speculating about ‘what might have been’. I was simply giving an opinion about how I feel we’ve done so far this season based on performances and points. My conclusion is we weren’t too far off but if we’d got the 2 points that we definitely deserved against Blyth then we’d be about right


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The point is we didn't deserve the 2 extra points, yes we played much better than them but we drew, we didn't score enough to win so we didn't deserve it, in fact they defended so well that they deserved a point, same at Spenny, we conceded as many as we scored so regardless of how we played, we got what we deserved, they kept going and managed a late equaliser so got what they deserved.

Speculation is great for looking forwards, as you can have an opinion on how we can do in a game, but it's quite difficult to argue convingly that we didn't get what we deserve in a game in the past.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:01 am

D_F_C wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
D_F_C wrote:I think if you look at the league table and add the 2 points on that we should have got against Blyth then I would have thought that would have been a fair assessment on how we’ve been.

Perhaps another 2 points away to spenny would take us close to playoffs


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Why should we have got three points against Blyth? We drew 1-1. Regardless of chances etc, all that matters is we scored the same amount as Blyth, therefore we deserve only a point.

If you do that, then every other team will say something similar. I'm sure Ashton would say they should have beaten us a fortnight ago. It means nothing.

Let's not go down the route of dwelling on what should have happened - it's entirely arbitrary, pointless and self-indulgent.
Not sure I understand why I shouldn’t be speculating about ‘what might have been’. I was simply giving an opinion about how I feel we’ve done so far this season based on performances and points. My conclusion is we weren’t too far off but if we’d got the 2 points that we definitely deserved against Blyth then we’d be about right.


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The logic is poor and flawed. We didn't deserve two extra points against Blyth or Spennymoor for the reasons me and Shawry have already outlined.

And every other team will have similar results where they "feel" they should have won instead of drawing, or drawn instead of losing. It's part of the game.

That's why your logic is weak - it's arbitrary and driven by your own partisanship rather than anything rational. Ultimately, we are where we are and any speculation on what might have happened in the past is pointless.
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by en passant » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:04 am

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:Just watched the post match interview (see link below)with Gavin Cowan the Telford Manager.
Talk about a manager with blinkers on! Yes you have to be super confident and believe in yourself and your team but this guy it a bit over the top.
He says Darlington won because they were out fought, yes thats true, but we also played the better football, and to be fair the score should have been 5 as we hit the post and the bar.
He also says that, on paper, they have much better players than us - I can't say I recognised any of their players to be honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f0WFp6789k
Yes I noticed the faint praise when I saw this interview. I also note that he seemed to think that the first half was pretty even and that they had as many chances to score. I guess this is what a manager has to say to his supporters (most of whom would not have been at the game) to gee them up for the next game, which did seem to be a important focus of the interview. I also read their local newspaper report of the game, which rather glossed over the multiple chances that Darlo had in the first half, and gave the impression that Telford had been the major force in the game up until the first goal.

On the point of their better players - I do wonder at the perception that is created by league position. This early in a season you can find that a bit of momentum and the confidence it creates can get a team a lot of points that later on they may struggle to find. Teams that start off like Chorley have sometimes crash when the bubble of invincibility is broken by a first defeat. This could well happen to Telford after Saturday. Their initial success can be a matter of lucky breaks and the confidence of results to keep players playing to the max. But it can also lead to teams believing that they are better than they are. I think that Darlo suffered a bit of this after the first four matches last season. We thought that MG continued to find the magic formula, so it came as a mighty surprise to all that we struggled so much in the next game where we found it difficult to break down a resolute defence and lost 1-0 at home. This busted the mirage that MG had created another league winning side and results went South from then on.

On the flip side of this is the possibility of a side that starts with poor results might find its mojo with a few decent results and go on the sort of run we had after the kick start at Leamington. There are a lot of decent sides in our league and a lot of very capable players who on any given day will look like world beaters but confidence and consistency are the extra factors that often separate the top from the also-rans. Can only hope that by the next time we meet Telford their manager has a better view of each team's worth and may consider that a 3-0 drubbing was the best he could expect.

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divas
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by divas » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:21 am

So in summary what you do in the first few weeks of the season isn’t necessarily indicative of what is to follow.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:24 am

I would take with a pinch of salt what an opposing manager says. His job is to get his players ready for the next game. I wouldn't micro-analyse anything else beyond that.

He's got to work with his players for the rest of the season, he's got to see ours twice why would he say our players are better than theirs.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by D_F_C » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:33 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
D_F_C wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
D_F_C wrote:I think if you look at the league table and add the 2 points on that we should have got against Blyth then I would have thought that would have been a fair assessment on how we’ve been.

Perhaps another 2 points away to spenny would take us close to playoffs


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Why should we have got three points against Blyth? We drew 1-1. Regardless of chances etc, all that matters is we scored the same amount as Blyth, therefore we deserve only a point.

If you do that, then every other team will say something similar. I'm sure Ashton would say they should have beaten us a fortnight ago. It means nothing.

Let's not go down the route of dwelling on what should have happened - it's entirely arbitrary, pointless and self-indulgent.
Not sure I understand why I shouldn’t be speculating about ‘what might have been’. I was simply giving an opinion about how I feel we’ve done so far this season based on performances and points. My conclusion is we weren’t too far off but if we’d got the 2 points that we definitely deserved against Blyth then we’d be about right.


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The logic is poor and flawed. We didn't deserve two extra points against Blyth or Spennymoor for the reasons me and Shawry have already outlined.

And every other team will have similar results where they "feel" they should have won instead of drawing, or drawn instead of losing. It's part of the game.

That's why your logic is weak - it's arbitrary and driven by your own partisanship rather than anything rational. Ultimately, we are where we are and any speculation on what might have happened in the past is pointless.
Might as well close this messageboard if no one is allowed to talk about what might have happened and what is deserved.

I don't see any harm in saying that we deserved to win against Blyth. I don't remember any darlo fan (or Blyth fan) say that we didn't deserve to win (including Alun Armstrong).

What you're saying is rather literal rather than an opinion. A game finished 0-0 so that's what was deserved etc etc

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:04 am

D_F_C wrote: Might as well close this messageboard if no one is allowed to talk about what might have happened and what is deserved.

I don't see any harm in saying that we deserved to win against Blyth. I don't remember any darlo fan (or Blyth fan) say that we didn't deserve to win (including Alun Armstrong).

What you're saying is rather literal rather than an opinion. A game finished 0-0 so that's what was deserved etc etc
Where've I said no one is allowed to talk about it? I'm saying the logic is flawed, not demanding silence. Don't make strawman argument.

As for being literal, you're being a bit patronising there.

We didn't deserve to win, because we scored the same number of goals as Blyth. That's just a fact. We can have all the chances and play as well as we like, but ultimately if you don't score more goals than the opposition, you don't deserve to win. You don't get extra points for playing better, only scoring more goals.

The reason why I think this is important, is because, in saying we should have had up to four points more, you're distorting how good our start has actually been. To me, we've had a poor, underwhelming start, littered with poor selection decisions, poor tactical decisions and bad defending.

Four extra points puts us one point off the play-offs. There is no way, on the basis of our start generally, we would deserve to be that high. We've been poor to mediocre for the majority of our opening nine games (I would say we've only played well in four matches, less than half the games we've played). Therefore, we deserve to be where we are.
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:58 pm

Had we beaten Blyth, Spennymoor, or Ashton, and drawn with Alfreton, no-one at those games would
have come away saying it was a travesty. Hence, we quite easily could be sitting 4 points better off despite only playing well 4 times. Fine margins.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:17 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:Had we beaten Blyth, Spennymoor, or Ashton, and drawn with Alfreton, no-one at those games would
have come away saying it was a travesty.
But fans of every club will say things like that. It doesn't change a thing, nor does it prove we've had a decent start, like some on this thread are trying to claim. All that matters is goals scored. You can say it as much as you like if it keeps you happy. But the facts are we didn't win any of the games you listed. If you're repeatedly on the wrong side of fine margins (as you think we have been for nearly 50% of our games this season), well that indicates a deeper problem, more than simply falling just short.

Our start has been poor, whether you like that fact our not. By the admission of our own CEO, we should be competing for the play-offs, yet we're nearer the relegation zone after nine games. So trying to distort our position by saying "Well we should have had X number of extra points" is both meaningless and self-defeating.

Rather than deluding myself about the past, I'd much rather be looking ahead to the Southport game and hoping TW can maintain the positive performance shown against Telford.
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Comfortably_numb » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:48 am

A lot of fans whistfully look back with “what if” thoughts. But the league table doesn’t lie.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by D_F_C » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:10 pm

No one is saying that the league table is wrong. I was simply comparing performances to points, to make a point that we weren’t too far off where we are. I thought our performances in some games deserved more points. Alan White did the same in a recent interview, perhaps someone could message him to say his interview was pointless


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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:19 pm

D_F_C wrote:No one is saying that the league table is wrong.
With respect, that's exactly what you are saying. You said we should have got more points from the Blyth and Spennymoor games. Therefore, if we should have had more points, we would therefore be higher up the table, one point off the play-offs.

Us not getting those additional points is precisely why we deserve to be where we are.

But to argue we should have had more points (your words) and then say the league table is correct is entirely contradictory.
D_F_C wrote:Alan White did the same in a recent interview, perhaps someone could message him to say his interview was pointless
You're being a tad silly here, which is disappointing. Everyone should disagree with lots of other people - it doesn't mean we have to message every single person every time we think something differently. And in fairness, would you expect the assistant manager of Darlington to say anything else?

Me and you are having a reasonable discussion about a differing viewpoint and perspective. Appealing to authority (e.g. Alan White says this, therefore it is more valid) isn't really the greatest debating tactic.
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:54 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:Had we beaten Blyth, Spennymoor, or Ashton, and drawn with Alfreton, no-one at those games would
have come away saying it was a travesty.
But fans of every club will say things like that. It doesn't change a thing, nor does it prove we've had a decent start, like some on this thread are trying to claim. All that matters is goals scored. You can say it as much as you like if it keeps you happy. But the facts are we didn't win any of the games you listed. If you're repeatedly on the wrong side of fine margins (as you think we have been for nearly 50% of our games this season), well that indicates a deeper problem, more than simply falling just short.

Our start has been poor, whether you like that fact our not. By the admission of our own CEO, we should be competing for the play-offs, yet we're nearer the relegation zone after nine games. So trying to distort our position by saying "Well we should have had X number of extra points" is both meaningless and self-defeating.

Rather than deluding myself about the past, I'd much rather be looking ahead to the Southport game and hoping TW can maintain the positive performance shown against Telford.
Personally, I think the majority of performances haven't been too far away. Yes, we have been inconsistent, but with a host of new players, injuries and suspensions, could that not be expected? Neither am I saying we should be 4 points better off. I merely said we could have been, and no-one would have argued based on those 4 games. As for deluding myself about the past, i'm not as all consumed by Darlo that I need to rewrite history. I made a throwaway remark on a throwaway forum. I'm just not as worried by our results as some. Had all our performances been like Altrincham, I would be. They haven't, so i'm not. And if we had got those extra points, and were sat one point off the play offs, why would we have not deserved to be in that position? Why can you take performance into account, and not DFC? As for the CEO stating we should be challenging for play offs, rather like Alan White, he would say that wouldn't he?

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:54 am

HarryCharltonsCat wrote: And if we had got those extra points, and were sat one point off the play offs, why would we have not deserved to be in that position?
But we didn't, so we're not. I've said repeatedly that hypotheticals are pointless.

D_F_C is saying we're in a false position because we deserved more points from the Blyth and Spennymoor games. I'm saying our position is accurate and reflective of where we should be. And in fact our failure to take four extra points from those two games is part of the reason we are where we deserve to be.
HarryCharltonsCat wrote: Why can you take performance into account, and not DFC?
You're asking a question but it makes no sense. You're going to have to try again.
HarryCharltonsCat wrote: As for the CEO stating we should be challenging for play offs, rather like Alan White, he would say that wouldn't he?
Why would he tell fans we should be challenging for the play-offs if we're not capable of doing so? That's just setting himself and TW up for a fall. DJ is a smart man - if he says we should be competing for the play-offs, I expect he's got plenty of basis and confidence to say that.

Unless you know otherwise??
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:31 pm

You stated that results dictated where you deserved to be in the table. You then said that, had we been 4 points better off, we wouldn't have deserved to be that high based on performances. Can't have it both ways.

Pre season, chairman has tickets to sell. You don't do that stating you expect to finish mid table.He also based it on budget, which can be unreliable.

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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:54 am

HarryCharltonsCat wrote: Pre season, chairman has tickets to sell. You don't do that stating you expect to finish mid table.
Potentially, but that idea is highly implausible and simplistic. Yes DJ could exaggerate the extent of our competitiveness. But he'd be doing so at immense risk. Firstly it puts TW under pressure to deliver, as if he doesn't produce a play-off challenging side with a smaller budget, fans get on his back and stop turning up.And in turn it also damages DJ's reputation, as he'd also be responsible for the the perceived under-performance.

It's far more plausible, shock horror, that we have a genuinely competitive budget, and should be competing for the play-offs. We're currently in the bottom third. Do you seriously think our budget is a bottom third budget?

Budget isn't the be all and end all, of course. But generally speaking, the sides with the biggest budgets go up, and sides with smaller budgets struggle. Hence Salford, South Shields, Fleetwood, Crawley, oh, and us. Ultimately if you provide a play-off level budget, you expect a play-off challenge, which TW is not delivering right now.

I noticed you dodged the question about having evidence. So I'll pose it again. Do you have anything concrete to suggest DJ is misleading fans over the budget? You've stated he could be exaggerating the extent of our competitiveness to make us a more attractive and marketable proposition. But can you back that up?

P.S. David Johnston isn't our chairman. He's the chief exec. Helps if you get the simple details right.
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Re: Darlington v AFC Telford

Post by loan_star » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:11 am

It’s still September. Anyone who takes notice of league positions at this time of year is wasting their time. Pointless arguing over what ifs etc. Come November and we are still scrapping around the bottom third then that’s the time to start asking serious questions of what Wright is achieving.

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