Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

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Quakers83
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Quakers83 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:20 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:How many times has Ainge actually played up front this season though? Four, maybe five? He missed 2 matches through injury, he played 2 or 3 in defence - he hasn't had a huge amount of time in the position that we signed him to play.
IIRC, Styche and Ainge started together in the following games;

Darlington 1-2 Curzon Ashton
Spennymoor 2-2 Darlington
Brackley 2-4 Darlington
Darlington 1-1 Blyth
Kidderminster 5-2 Darlington
Darlington 0-3 Altrincham
Darlington 0-1 Bradford Park Avenue

1-2-4.

In the remaining four games, we’re 1-2-1 with 4 goals conceded - funnily enough in the three games we picked up points during this spell (Ashton, Telford and Southport) we played 4-5-1/4-3-3.

Fair enough they both got off to a good start goal-scoring wise, but we also conceded 15 goals in the first 6 games and had the joint-worst defensive record in the league.

We need to become solid, go to 4-2-3-1/4-5-1, become hard to break-down like last season because Nicholson, Syers & Thompson will give you goals in behind Styche or Ainge.

Feethams 1966
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Feethams 1966 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:52 pm

darlo reborn wrote:Why do other teams look fitter and quicker than us something must be wrong in training as they seem to play with lead boots on as for the tactics say no more
Agree. Compared to Bradford we didn't seem to play with any urgency yesterday.
Why was it that every time we got a corner we seemed to take half an hour to get somebody ambled across to take it?
Any pressure and momentum lost.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Emdubya » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:36 pm

Feethams 1966 wrote:
darlo reborn wrote:Why do other teams look fitter and quicker than us something must be wrong in training as they seem to play with lead boots on as for the tactics say no more
Agree. Compared to Bradford we didn't seem to play with any urgency yesterday.
Why was it that every time we got a corner we seemed to take half an hour to get somebody ambled across to take it?
Any pressure and momentum lost.
Another point about corners.Why is it Wright has all 10 players in our box when we concede one?.We then have no out ball and it invites the opposition to pile more men forward.Fair enough if we were defending a lead but not when you’re chasing a game.Baffling.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:07 pm

I'm not sure how many of our players/staff travel up from the Midlands or how often we train but it's a more than five hour round trip if you go now-a quiet Sunday. I'm sure that must impact on the levels of fitness and personally unless I was great mates with those around me I'd soon be fed up of the journey and company of my fellow travellers!

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by tdk1 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:12 pm

Must say the highlights don't make for good viewing. Zero movement or coherence between team mates - it looks like training ground issues to me, particularly relevant given the questions over our fitness relative to our opponents and our injury record. We look like a team of individuals to me.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm

Out of all the threads I've ever read on Uncovered, this is one of the best - because the vast majority of people writing on here have spotted where the problems were yesterday, and have described them accurately.

So if we can all see what's wrong, why can't T.W.??? :thumbdown:

The team was set up wrong, especially in midfield, T.W. isn't learning from previous mistakes and Ainge and Styche aren't cutting the mustard.

We played some great football against Telford, neat and crisp - yet nothing seems to have been taken from this game, and it's incredibly disappointing to be knocked out of the cup in this way, with most of our supposedly better players on the pitch.

T.W really must start to sort this out - get the midfield working properly with no holes and as for Ainge and Styche, is T.W. weary of dropping one of them to the bench? Well he shouldn't be as no player should have an automatic place in the team.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:16 pm

Galbraith certainly is better at delivering great corners than Thommo.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Quakers83 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:21 pm

tdk1 wrote:Must say the highlights don't make for good viewing. Zero movement or coherence between team mates - it looks like training ground issues to me, particularly relevant given the questions over our fitness relative to our opponents and our injury record. We look like a team of individuals to me.
Yep. I said yesterday that there were a few players playing for themselves and not the team.

I’m a massive Styche fan, but how many times has he tried to score from 40-50 yards this season? I haven’t been to every game, and I can count three!

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:46 am

darlo reborn wrote:Why do other teams look fitter and quicker than us something must be wrong in training as they seem to play with lead boots on as for the tactics say no more
we train, do we? :shock:

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:35 am

Emdubya wrote:
Feethams 1966 wrote:
darlo reborn wrote:Why do other teams look fitter and quicker than us something must be wrong in training as they seem to play with lead boots on as for the tactics say no more
Agree. Compared to Bradford we didn't seem to play with any urgency yesterday.
Why was it that every time we got a corner we seemed to take half an hour to get somebody ambled across to take it?
Any pressure and momentum lost.
Another point about corners.Why is it Wright has all 10 players in our box when we concede one?.We then have no out ball and it invites the opposition to pile more men forward.Fair enough if we were defending a lead but not when you’re chasing a game.Baffling.
I used to love Hodgy's approach when defending a corner, he used to stick three players on the half way line. which meant the opposition would have to at least match it - your right by having all men back your just inviting pressure.
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by H1987 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:54 am

There must be a logic involved with the corner thing. It is far from only TW that does this, it permeates all levels of football.

I would suspect that some statistician somewhere has crunched the numbers, and concluded that teams are less likely to concede with ten in the box, than say 10, 9 or less. Therefore, cram the box. I'm guessing a crowded box lessens the chance of an attacker winning a one on one dual, and running into free space.

Of all the things that bother me, this is really the least of the worries.

Playing a formation that clearly isn't working, and the lack of midfield options... that bothers me.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:35 am

Interesting that looking at the league table we've drawn with the 3 teams immediately below us. This would suggest that we're broadly about their standard at the moment, despite TW saying that we should be 6/7 points better off.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Nigel Batches Beard » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:05 pm

as much as my opinions worth its 4-5-1 all day for me. Not exactly radical but solid .More adventurous formations - ESPECIALLY when we are without Wheatley - always seem destined to end in tears.

But howay lads/ - Thommo at wing back? Ainge in midfield? :crazy:

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Comfortably_numb » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:11 pm

is it going to take injuries to force TW into playing the formation we think is a success?

I'd imagine when TW signed Ainge he told him he'd be playing every game - and may well have said the same to Styche. Would be a hard chat to have with either of them if he changed formation through choice....

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:25 pm

What a reward for Bradford, away to Altrincham. I suppose at least they got the relatively routine tie in the last round against the perennial cup no-hopers :x

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:21 pm

Comfortably_numb wrote:is it going to take injuries to force TW into playing the formation we think is a success?

I'd imagine when TW signed Ainge he told him he'd be playing every game - and may well have said the same to Styche. Would be a hard chat to have with either of them if he changed formation through choice....
This is what I think too.

T.W. needs to have a radical rethink and I hope re reads through this thread as it's unusually good, apart from the Thommo at wingback bit.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by quakerman » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Comfortably_numb wrote:is it going to take injuries to force TW into playing the formation we think is a success?

I'd imagine when TW signed Ainge he told him he'd be playing every game - and may well have said the same to Styche. Would be a hard chat to have with either of them if he changed formation through choice....
If Tommy prefers to give our 2 strikers more time to gell with a full squad available then I would go with the following starting 11.

Maddison
Trotman
Hughes
Tez
O,Hanlon

Wheatley
Syers
Nicholson

Thommo
Styche
Singe

To make us a bit more physical, then Burn at CB and move Tez into midfield replacing Nicholson.Our bench would then have Elliott,Harvey,Henshall and Nicholson.I would be happy to go with this IF Tommy wants to give our strikers more time with a full strength squad, but it’s all about personal opinions.



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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:31 pm

quakerman wrote:Thommo
Styche
Singe
Don't want Singe playing - seen enough of him!
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:35 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
quakerman wrote:Thommo
Styche
Singe
Don't want Singe playing - seen enough of him!
Singe is on fire right now.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by jjljks » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:50 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
quakerman wrote:Thommo
Styche
Singe
Don't want Singe playing - seen enough of him!
Not unless Tommy W is completely Raj'ed :lol:

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:15 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:To be fair to Harry, what is our CEO's footballing credentials? You seem to take his pronunciation as gospel.
What do you mean by footballing credentials? His job is to run us on a day-to-day basis. His business knowledge and sense have taken us to a stronger position financially. He has a far better knowledge of our club's budget than you or I.

And let's remember, we weren't exactly overwhelmed with people wanting the role either, so I think you're being a bit out of order here, when your questioning is based on nothing more than your own supposition.

And given his work so far on stabilising our finances, I'm willing to trust him. He's always come across well and said to judge him on his results and in fairness since he took over, off the pitch, we're in a stronger position.

So it's not a case of taking what he says to be gospel (And let's be fair, you're exaggerating for effect here). More a case that, based on what he's achieved so far, I feel I can trust what he says. And at least one other club wanted his services last summer, so he's fairly well respected.

If you think he's wrong on our budget, that's fine and you're welcome to explain why he's wrong. But unless you're bringing anything more than your own suppositions, it's only ever your opinion.

It's not just him though is it? Our dear manager said similar things, more quality in the squad than last season was what he said.

Based on that, is it really so much to expect us to be doing much better than scrabbling around in the bottom third, and to be out of the cup? TW found winning formula last season and told us we'd improved on that. Of course he's not going to say we've gone backwards, but Quakerz came up with a decent analysis in another thread that we should be in and around the top 10 at the very least.

Ultimately, we are vastly under-performing on the pitch and responsibility lies with the manager. I do agree with you that some of our fans are making the team's job harder. The prick who was berating Styche all of yesterday was embarrassing.
Wasn't questioning the job our CEO is doing. Totally agree that he has been excellent. It was more what he had based his assertion that we should be around the play offs all season on. If it is purely size of our budget, i'm not sure that's the most reliable guide, as I tried to explain. I don't think we get the same bang for our buck due to our location. I would say we had an outside chance of the playoffs at best. The squad has never looked that robust, or balanced. We have a lot of talented footballers, but not too many grafters.

Wright has made mistakes. Personally i think Ainge was an impulse buy. He wanted Chambers, couldn't get him due to location, and thought fans would be placated when Ainge became available. He's now shoehorning him into the team, at the expense of our best system. Had he got Chambers, i don't think we'd be having these discussions.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:08 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote: It was more what he had based his assertion that we should be around the play offs all season on. If it is purely size of our budget, i'm not sure that's the most reliable guide, as I tried to explain.
In the interview, he quite clearly doesn't base it purely on budget. He says he thinks there's enough quality in the squad to be able to compete in the play-offs. That's him and TW who have said that. Using that basis, we're massively under-performing.

Even if you didn't think we could get into the play-offs, surely you can't have expected such a bad start. I hope you'd agree that being in the bottom third, two wins from 11, out of the Cup and TW having little idea of his strongest XI is an unacceptable start, when the CEO and manager have said we're capable of much more.

The link to the interview is here:
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 29_008.mp3
HarryCharltonsCat wrote: Wright has made mistakes. Personally i think Ainge was an impulse buy. He wanted Chambers, couldn't get him due to location, and thought fans would be placated when Ainge became available. He's now shoehorning him into the team, at the expense of our best system. Had he got Chambers, i don't think we'd be having these discussions.
But we didn't get Chambers, so it's pointless wittering about him. TW has signed Ainge who had an excellent record prior to his injury, and has been good in patches. But in doing so, TW has abandoned the 4-5-1 which has served us well, in order to shoehorn in Ainge, as you say. Wright's made more mistakes too, and given his record overall as a manager, I see very little to convince anyone he's capable of taking us up.
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:06 pm

No ones wittering about Chambers. First time he's been mentioned actually. I said i believed he was our first choice, and Ainge was an afterthought when he wasn't available, hence why he doesn't really fit our style. You need to relax more. Can't be healthy being wound so tight.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:47 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:No ones wittering about Chambers. First time he's been mentioned actually. I said i believed he was our first choice, and Ainge was an afterthought when he wasn't available, hence why he doesn't really fit our style. You need to relax more. Can't be healthy being wound so tight.
A little bit of a touchy, defensive response there. There wasn't really any need for the unnecessary personal remarks- the discussion has been reasonable and on-topic up until your post there. Usually when someone resorts to ad hominems, it's a sign they're losing the debate.

All I said was there was no point discussing a "could have been". I don't understand why the word "wittering" upset you so much to provoke you in that way.

You can say everything would have been fine and dandy had we signed Chambers. But we didn't, so any discussion about him is purely guesswork and ultimately meaningless.
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by shawry » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:08 am

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:To be fair to Harry, what is our CEO's footballing credentials? You seem to take his pronunciation as gospel.
What do you mean by footballing credentials? His job is to run us on a day-to-day basis. His business knowledge and sense have taken us to a stronger position financially. He has a far better knowledge of our club's budget than you or I.

And let's remember, we weren't exactly overwhelmed with people wanting the role either, so I think you're being a bit out of order here, when your questioning is based on nothing more than your own supposition.

And given his work so far on stabilising our finances, I'm willing to trust him. He's always come across well and said to judge him on his results and in fairness since he took over, off the pitch, we're in a stronger position.

So it's not a case of taking what he says to be gospel (And let's be fair, you're exaggerating for effect here). More a case that, based on what he's achieved so far, I feel I can trust what he says. And at least one other club wanted his services last summer, so he's fairly well respected.

If you think he's wrong on our budget, that's fine and you're welcome to explain why he's wrong. But unless you're bringing anything more than your own suppositions, it's only ever your opinion.

It's not just him though is it? Our dear manager said similar things, more quality in the squad than last season was what he said.

Based on that, is it really so much to expect us to be doing much better than scrabbling around in the bottom third, and to be out of the cup? TW found winning formula last season and told us we'd improved on that. Of course he's not going to say we've gone backwards, but Quakerz came up with a decent analysis in another thread that we should be in and around the top 10 at the very least.

Ultimately, we are vastly under-performing on the pitch and responsibility lies with the manager. I do agree with you that some of our fans are making the team's job harder. The prick who was berating Styche all of yesterday was embarrassing.
Wasn't questioning the job our CEO is doing. Totally agree that he has been excellent. It was more what he had based his assertion that we should be around the play offs all season on. If it is purely size of our budget, i'm not sure that's the most reliable guide, as I tried to explain. I don't think we get the same bang for our buck due to our location. I would say we had an outside chance of the playoffs at best. The squad has never looked that robust, or balanced. We have a lot of talented footballers, but not too many grafters.

Wright has made mistakes. Personally i think Ainge was an impulse buy. He wanted Chambers, couldn't get him due to location, and thought fans would be placated when Ainge became available. He's now shoehorning him into the team, at the expense of our best system. Had he got Chambers, i don't think we'd be having these discussions.
Do you really think he bought a player to placate fans? I'm fairly certain the fans have been pretty vocal about how our best form was with one up top, so while people were excited to get someone of Ainges quality I don't think many were saying you promised us a striker so go get one.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:21 am

I think if it came to light we had the opportunity to sign someone of Ainge's quality and passed it up plenty would question that decision - but he wasn't neccessarilly the player we needed at that moment in time.

I remember on several occaisions Gray saying things like 'when the opportunity to sign 'x' who would undoubtedly improve us came along I had to take it'. Andrew Johnson was one, and there was a midfielder whose name I forget (but who was highly rated when we signed him). In the end, neither worked in our system and neither lasted long as a result. This was also endemic of Gray's obsession with spending more and more money.

Ainge is clearly a good player both up front and at the back and I don't really have any issue with us signing him - but if it's clear that we don't have the players elsewhere to support a 4-4-2, particularly one with two fairly similar strikers, then something has to give and if Wright has to make a difficult decision and drop Ainge, and Ainge isn't happy being a bench player for a while, then we would need to try and move him on to bring in a forward who either complements Styche better, or who is willing to play second fiddle.

Strange, because after the first couple of games plenty were talking about how well these two were linking up - and they still might - but we need to sort out what's behind them first.
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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by divas » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:46 am

The midfielder was Paul Robinson, I only know that as I was wracking my brains the other day to think of his name when I saw a photo of him. One of the biggest disappointments of recent years alongside Hopson. Not their fault just the wrong players at the wrong time.

Regarding Ainge, Tommy’s biggest quandary over the summer (and he said as much) was how does he bring in a quality forward when you’re playing 4-5-1 and Styche is already at the club. A top quality player is going to want to play more often than not but who knows whether Styche would be fit/in form or not.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by al_quaker » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:11 am

Now spyman mentions it, Ainge looks like a Gray signing - good player no doubt, but question marks as to how he fits in.

442 may just about work when Wheatley and Elliot are playing - see Blyth/Spennymoor/Brackley. Very open at the back, but decent going forwards. And Ainge and Styche were linking up pretty well. However, without the energy of both Wheatley and Elliot we get swamped in midfield, meaning the front players are subsequently starved of decent balls and we have to resort to launching it towards Ainge.

I have some sympathy for Wright as the signing of Hughes as a midfielder hasn't really worked out. But if Wright insists on 442 (and lets be honest, we have 2 of the better strikers at this level, it's fair enough trying to find a system which gets the best out of both of them), then he has to find another midfielder who's capable of playing in a midfield 2. Probably by shipping out one of the surplus CBs now Hughes is playing (very well) there. Either that or a switch in formation - 451 being the obvious candidate.

What he cant do is try and proceed with whatever it was tried in the first half on Saturday - whether it was a 442 with Nicholson in CM or a diamond with wingers!

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by divas » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:28 am

I’m not sure how fit Ainge is after his back injury (he won almost nothing in the air which is unlike him and without that ability he offers next to nothing) which makes his selection on Saturday even more odd. In TW’s post match he mentioned trying to get his best players on the pitch which given it was a crucial game you can understand but he needs to be more aware that your best players don’t always mean your best team.

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Re: Darlington v Bradford (Park Avenue)

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:31 am

al_quaker wrote:Now spyman mentions it, Ainge looks like a Gray signing - good player no doubt, but question marks as to how he fits in.

442 may just about work when Wheatley and Elliot are playing - see Blyth/Spennymoor/Brackley. Very open at the back, but decent going forwards. And Ainge and Styche were linking up pretty well. However, without the energy of both Wheatley and Elliot we get swamped in midfield, meaning the front players are subsequently starved of decent balls and we have to resort to launching it towards Ainge.

I have some sympathy for Wright as the signing of Hughes as a midfielder hasn't really worked out. But if Wright insists on 442 (and lets be honest, we have 2 of the better strikers at this level, it's fair enough trying to find a system which gets the best out of both of them), then he has to find another midfielder who's capable of playing in a midfield 2. Probably by shipping out one of the surplus CBs now Hughes is playing (very well) there. Either that or a switch in formation - 451 being the obvious candidate.

What he cant do is try and proceed with whatever it was tried in the first half on Saturday - whether it was a 442 with Nicholson in CM or a diamond with wingers!
But by bringing in another quality midfielder you effectively have the same problem you have created by bringing in a quality striker - there's only so many places in the team so how do you persuade them to join to sit on the bench? You also have Syers who we are saying doesn't fit in a 4-4-2 yet he's proven to be one of our most effective players time and again.

Personally I'd stick with the personnel we have but you decide what/who is more effective. Ainge and Styche together with two in midfield or Syers behind one of them. So far based on results/performances it sounds like the latter is the more effective option and Wright has to be the Manager and take the responsibility to make that decision.

If we can move Collins/Caton on permanently then perhaps we can bring in another energetic midfielder who is happy to compete with Wheatley and Elliott for a place.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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