Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Football

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shawry
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by shawry » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:53 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Society does indirectly decide. If someone has a previous offence then it has to be declared on a job application. It is highly likely that any application would go straight in the bin. These days you don't even need to have a conviction. If you are CRB checked, then if police have even investigated that goes down on your CRB form, followed by (in small print) no convictions brought. Someone can make a malicious allegation which is unproven, but this has to be declared, and you are unlikely to work again.
Though this has been highlighted as a potential flaw by the supreme court

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.or ... 20%251%24s

If you don't have a criminal record nothing should show





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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by don'tbuythesun » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:07 am

As I said previously he'll have to sign on the sex offenders register regardless of DBS (previously CRB) checks. So much to manage, young fans, other players children, mascots. It may not be seen as a privileged position but people do look up to footballers.

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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by spen666 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:28 am

Vodka_Vic wrote:Society does indirectly decide. If someone has a previous offence then it has to be declared on a job application. It is highly likely that any application would go straight in the bin. These days you don't even need to have a conviction. If you are CRB checked, then if police have even investigated that goes down on your CRB form, followed by (in small print) no convictions brought. Someone can make a malicious allegation which is unproven, but this has to be declared, and you are unlikely to work again.

Think you are in danger of confusing the normal DBS check with the enhanced DBS check.

1. For the vast majority of jobs you do not need a DBS check

2. Most DBS checks are on the standard basis and allegations that are not proceeded with would not ordinarily be on them

3. Certain jobs require and enhanced DBS check. In those case, the Chief Constable of a police area has to consider whether to disclose the information regarding allegations not proceeded with or other "intelligence". It is not automatically disclosed and the police have to be able to justify the processing and disclosure of such data and it is also covered by the GDPR rules.
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:39 am

loan_star wrote:I didn't say you were defending him.
However this type of offence is deemed bad enough even within the prison community that this type of offender is kept away from the general population. Its a crime thats deemed one of the lowest of the low.
But this is my point - who judges that it's the lowest of the low? Is having sexual activity with a 15-year-old worse than killing someone because you were driving recklessly? (I've worded that simplistically, but you get my point).

Everyone will have a different view, shaped by their own experiences in society. So because everyone's interpretation of a crime will be different, we have to place our faith in the judicial system, which says Johnson, on his release, has been sufficiently punished and, with safeguards and monitoring, isn't a danger to society.

To impose additional punishments (I.e. you can't get a job as a non-league footballer) because of a subjective construct (I.e. it's the lowest of the low) is wrong and dangerous in my view.
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by lo36789 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:28 am

Darlogramps wrote:But this is my point - who judges that it's the lowest of the low?
Certainly not convicted prisoners - but surely that is actually one of the outcomes of the judicial system.

Length of sentences is a reflection on the severity of the nature of the offence.

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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by darlo reborn » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:50 am

I think he should be allowed to play football again as long as the club that signs him realises that all he would be allowed to do would be train and play games with no outside commercial activity in conjuction with other players or fans.

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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:07 am

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:But this is my point - who judges that it's the lowest of the low?
Certainly not convicted prisoners - but surely that is actually one of the outcomes of the judicial system.

Length of sentences is a reflection on the severity of the nature of the offence.
Yep, and that's the point I make in my post. It's for the judicial system to decide, and not for society to inflict additional punishments and judgements.
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by Vodka_Vic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:34 am

Spen. in my job in the public sector you always need an enhanced check, and I've never known the police not disclose that someone has been 'interviewed'.

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loan_star
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by loan_star » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:44 am

Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:But this is my point - who judges that it's the lowest of the low?
Certainly not convicted prisoners - but surely that is actually one of the outcomes of the judicial system.

Length of sentences is a reflection on the severity of the nature of the offence.
Yep, and that's the point I make in my post. It's for the judicial system to decide, and not for society to inflict additional punishments and judgements.
Unfortunately these days quite often the punishment doesnt fit the crime, usually far too lenient. There was a case yesterday of a woman who swindled £67k from various places being given a slapped wrist and told to repay £731. Is that a fair punishment? I doubt she would be trusted to look after anyones accounts after that.
Different extremes I know but it goes to show that sometimes people do get off lightly.

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MKDarlo
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by MKDarlo » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:08 pm

There was some mention above that a criminal conviction leads to your application for work automatically being binned. Obviously you have to look at the role and the conviction but a mistake should not count double against someone. As long as the conviction is disclosed I will consider them.
don'tbuythesun wrote:Really impressed with the balanced discussion about this. I presume he'll have to sign on the sex offenders register for life and any contact with children would be assessed whilst in this country. We wouldn't know if there are other players subject to this. Given what he earns from the monies he already has does he need to work?
Agree - this is a very mature debate!

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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by murtonquaker » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:50 am

Vodka_Vic wrote:Spen. in my job in the public sector you always need an enhanced check, and I've never known the police not disclose that someone has been 'interviewed'.
I got my DBS check done earlier this year which came back clear, totally clean, despite having a couple of convictions as a minor and 1 as an adult. Did not even show that I was interviewed 12 months ago as I was released with No Further Action, though I aint sure if it was a Standard or Enhanced Disclosure, I just assumed my convictions are spent now.

As for Adam Johnson, I dont think he should be allowed to play again and be put back in a position as before he went to prison. Anyway does he really need to work, according to some sources he is still making 250 stacks a year on investments and is still a multi-millionaire

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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:33 pm

No one seems to be considering there's a possibility A.J. might of genuinely learnt by his (big) mistake!

i.e. he's done his time, understood what he's done wrong, been punished and won't re offend.

I believe that people can change - whether he has or not is another matter.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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loan_star
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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by loan_star » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:44 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:No one seems to be considering there's a possibility A.J. might of genuinely learnt by his (big) mistake!

i.e. he's done his time, understood what he's done wrong, been punished and won't re offend.

I believe that people can change - whether he has or not is another matter.
Quite a lot of offenders probably are the same but that doesnt mean they can walk straight back into their chosen profession.
Sex offending teachers and dodgy accountants for example.

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Re: Hartlepool Aiming to be Most Hated Club in English Footb

Post by shildonlad » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:32 am

Like that teacher from Durham going with young lads they have been handed harsher punishments than folk who have done worse crimes to make an example of them as both were in the public eye a lot (Johnson more so). There was a lot of s*** storms when clubs tried to sign ched Evans event thougth he was appealing his conviction at the time, imagine if a club tried to sign Johnson, chairman and management would get death threats so in that note no ones likely to sign him.


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