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Management Team
Stick with TW & AW & see it come good. 68%  68%  [ 43 ]
Get rid & act fast to save the season. 32%  32%  [ 20 ]
Total votes : 63
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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:15 am 
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Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:15 am 
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The bottom line is if the club is in serious danger of spiralling into a full-on relegation battle then the club/board should act in it's best interests. It is on record that the expectations this season are much higher than where we are now and we are not looking likely of achieving even the bare minimum currently, so obviously question marks hang over TW's management abilities. If we are prepared to give him time, then does the club have contingency plans for a relegation? - I believe DJ said that this was very much not a scenario he wants the club to face as it is very much a potentially disastrous vicious cycle.

Like last season we are in a difficult situation again when it comes to potential managerial change. Last year we suffered from the legacy of the Gray era, with a busted budget. This time around the difficulty would be the implications a TW departure would have on a number of players brought in by TW and potential disruption if a player wants to leave/new players come in.

It appears many are holding out for a miracle of sorts, like at Leamington last season and I am sorry it isn't working out for TW. However, ultimately we have to consider the club and it's direction and if it means bringing in a new manager to salvage our Conference North position then its got to happen. TW may still do that but I just can't see it happening from the time he has managed us and since he has reshaped the majority of the squad - our current position is pinned on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Yes our current position is pinned on him.

His plans haven't worked out, or aren't working out and I suppose in football (as in life) you can only really find out if something is going to work by trying it.

So to me T.W. needs bit more time to come up with solutions to the problems we have, and I believe that D.J will give him this time. Now is not the time to look for a new management team.

The reality is that we are now in a proper league! We can no longer outsmart opposition managers, or outspend our opponents and our confidence is low. Gray decided this reality wasn't for him and split. He wasn't prepared to knuckle down to a season or two of mid table graft. But that's what we could well be looking at because there's been some big changes lately and it's taking more time than anybody wanted for things to come good.

Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.

I'm not saying T.W's un-sackable, just that it's right that he gets ample time to put things right.

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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:30 pm 
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The one thing that TW's level of management and stats dont suggest this season is midtable mediocrity.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:40 pm 
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banktopp wrote:
Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.



Thats one of the points I have been making, we know the transfer money in and Marathonbet money went to pay off aged debt so even if Wright did a deal and didn't take all of what he was entitled to, its still money that hasn't been budgeted for and then theres the additional expense of compensating the club we take another manager from. It all adds up.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:56 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
banktopp wrote:
Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.



Thats one of the points I have been making, we know the transfer money in and Marathonbet money went to pay off aged debt so even if Wright did a deal and didn't take all of what he was entitled to, its still money that hasn't been budgeted for and then theres the additional expense of compensating the club we take another manager from. It all adds up.


added to dwindling attendances and the possibility that commercial isn't going well. Don't want to risk the financial security again. Either way you could argue it's a gamble


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:42 pm 
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D_F_C wrote:
loan_star wrote:
banktopp wrote:
Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.



Thats one of the points I have been making, we know the transfer money in and Marathonbet money went to pay off aged debt so even if Wright did a deal and didn't take all of what he was entitled to, its still money that hasn't been budgeted for and then theres the additional expense of compensating the club we take another manager from. It all adds up.


added to dwindling attendances and the possibility that commercial isn't going well. Don't want to risk the financial security again. Either way you could argue it's a gamble

Arguably relegation to the Evostick would be biggest risk to financial security.
There is no doubt we are in a relegation battle and not on the fringes of a play-off position. Relegation on our topped up playing budget should not be an option.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:01 pm 
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And as I pointed elsewhere, getting back up is much harder now, because only the champions are guaranteed promotion.

Relegation is certainly not something we can afford. The losses from relegation would be far greater than anything we'd pay for sacking TW if he keeps failing.

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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
And as I pointed elsewhere, getting back up is much harder now, because only the champions are guaranteed promotion.

Relegation is certainly not something we can afford. The losses from relegation would be far greater than anything we'd pay for sacking TW if he keeps failing.


Whilst I agree with a lot of the challenges that others have mentioned in terms of TW leaving if things don't get better, I do agree however the cost of relegation would be massive compared to taking a chance on someone new although this in itself wouldn't guarantee anything either.

I personally haven't completely given up on TW as yet, however if current form continues over the next month or so then it will be inevitable in terms of what has to happen one way or another.

Some of the last people to get to the removing TW stage will be the board for a number of reason, mainly costs mentioned, player challenges and the main one will be that whole recruitment process which seemed to be such an issue last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:16 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.


That's not the case, and actually it's a little bit patronising to anyone who believes TW is underperforming.

TW and DJ believe we should be pushing for the play-offs. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to think at the least we should be aiming for top 10. And yet we're a place above the drop zone and more often than not, we've put in an inept performance.

And TW's record, both with us and generally, is mediocre at best. This is where the criticism comes from. Not from a belief that we should be doing a Chorley and storming the league.

As for giving him time, well he's had 12 months and has completely reshaped the squad. We're two and a half months into the campaign, approaching a third of the game played, yet there's not really a sign that everything is coming together, despite the extensive changes of the last 12 months. We've gone backwards in my opinion.

How much longer does he need? He's had a full pre-season to impose his ideas and method on his squad. Yet can anyone really say what he's setting out to achieve? It's so inconsistent you can only conclude he doesn't know himself.

I think part of the problem is every victory is labelled by his supporters as massive proof that he's getting it right. Then time after time, we slip up in the next two or three games. If we beat FC United, one of the worst teams in the division, we'll see the usual suspects saying: "Yeah, well in there. He's proving people wrong." Well actually, let's see a consistent run of results, before claiming we've turned a corner.

It's not unreasonable to expect better performances and results at this stage, 12 months on from his appointment.

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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:33 pm 
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I don't disagree with your post. T.W. is underperforming, but it seems where we may disagree is with the amount of patience we have, the amount of time we're prepared to allow T.W. to get it right.

I've been following Darlo since 96, and as I'm sure you'll remember there's been some lean years since then, a lot of dull seasons, and a lot of times when managers have faltered, so above I was just trying to point out that now we're in this league, normality is returning - i.e. s*** can happen. It can happen at any club - and we've had a bad start, there's no denying it.

I'm sure T.W and D.J are aiming top ten, personally I'd be disappointed not to achieve top 7, so to repeat myself I don't think our opinions are too far apart -it's more about the timing where we differ - and at present the poll on this thread indicates that more people than not want to give T.W more time.

B.T.W. as a moot point we've played 11 games, so we are in fact just a teeny weeny bit over a quarter of the season played. A half game in fact!

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Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.


That's not the case, and actually it's a little bit patronising to anyone who believes TW is underperforming.

TW and DJ believe we should be pushing for the play-offs. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to think at the least we should be aiming for top 10. And yet we're a place above the drop zone and more often than not, we've put in an inept performance.

And TW's record, both with us and generally, is mediocre at best. This is where the criticism comes from. Not from a belief that we should be doing a Chorley and storming the league.

As for giving him time, well he's had 12 months and has completely reshaped the squad. We're two and a half months into the campaign, approaching a third of the game played, yet there's not really a sign that everything is coming together, despite the extensive changes of the last 12 months. We've gone backwards in my opinion.

How much longer does he need? He's had a full pre-season to impose his ideas and method on his squad. Yet can anyone really say what he's setting out to achieve? It's so inconsistent you can only conclude he doesn't know himself.

I think part of the problem is every victory is labelled by his supporters as massive proof that he's getting it right. Then time after time, we slip up in the next two or three games. If we beat FC United, one of the worst teams in the division, we'll see the usual suspects saying: "Yeah, well in there. He's proving people wrong." Well actually, let's see a consistent run of results, before claiming we've turned a corner.

It's not unreasonable to expect better performances and results at this stage, 12 months on from his appointment.


I don’t think there’s anyone privately disagreeing with the fact that the start isn’t good enough. I think there are differences of how much time should be allowed. Some would want him sacked after 1 bad performance. Some after a few, etc etc.

My opinion along with others is a bit more time. It’s only turned October so a bit longer to see any evidence of improvement, but yes Gramps I get what you’re saying.

One thing is though that whilst I agree that relegation would be unthinkable, let’s not get under the misapprehension that replacing TW would get results and steer us away. It could get worse, then we’d have relegation plus the cost of sacking/new manager etc


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:50 pm 
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D_F_C wrote:
One thing is though that whilst I agree that relegation would be unthinkable, let’s not get under the misapprehension that replacing TW would get results and steer us away. It could get worse, then we’d have relegation plus the cost of sacking/new manager etc


True, but it could also get better as well. At which point it becomes a sound investment. There's no way of knowing, so it then becomes a question of what point you're willing to gamble. For me, for TW to stay, there needs to be some evidence that we're improving in terms of results. Performances is one thing, but we need points on the board. I've seen little in the opening 11 games (or indeed his 12 months here) to suggest that's the case.

There's no way of knowing, and all we can judge is whether we think TW will turn things around to avoid relegation. And not just that, but whether we think he's the right person to achieve our aims going forward (which presumably for most people is promotion). With top 10 being realistic, I'd be unhappy even if we beat the drop to finish lower mid-table. Some would cheer it as a success, as they did last year. But it wouldn't be.

Quote:
B.T.W. as a moot point we've played 11 games, so we are in fact just a teeny weeny bit over a quarter of the season played. A half game in fact!


And in less than a fortnight, we'll have 13 games on the board, which is one shy of a third of the season. The games quickly disappear, which for me is why saying "Give him a bit more time" is just as risky as getting someone fresh in. If results and performances don't pick up, you'll have to stop saying "Give him a few more games" at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm 
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So what you would do to increase the chances of a change spurring an upturn in fortunes and leading to a climb away from relegation is identify an experienced non-league manager from the North-east or North who has on his CV a successful record of leading a side out of the relegation mire when things looked lost.

One with a good, solid record of managing sides on a limited budget and who has proved capable of getting his sides fit and organised with a methodical approach. It would be good if he also has a track record of successfully developing young players.

You also make sure it wouldn't cost the earth to get them out of any contract they are currently on (because it's not that long nor lucrative) and try your hardest to get that man in. That way it may not be such a tortuous appointment process. Shock, horror, they may be someone who doesn't have a past connection with the club but has a fairly long and solid record with some of the right credentials you are seeking.

In this way you can lessen the gamble involved in a change although obviously there are no cast-iron guarantees. And in my view in this kind of crisis situation it would be imperative to get someone with full managerial experience, not someone who has only been an assistant boss.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:43 am 
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Could imagine lack of promotion over the years has reduced the pool of managers for conference north level in the north east as well as players. Out of the managers around evostick/conference level in the north east can’t see many wanting to leave existing clubs especially those at Marsden and Morpeth. Wonder if Gary mills would fancy the job if it became available, knows the level.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:36 am 
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I dont think Gary Mills would be a good fit for a limited budget fan owned club.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:43 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
I dont think Gary Mills would be a good fit for a limited budget fan owned club.


The penthouse apartment York provided for him is likely similar to what Tommy will get in wages.


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:04 am 
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Beano wrote:
loan_star wrote:
I dont think Gary Mills would be a good fit for a limited budget fan owned club.


The penthouse apartment York provided for him is likely similar to what Tommy will get in wages.


If only we had kept the Arena, Mills could have had George's penthouse :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:09 pm 
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real_darlo_85 wrote:
The bottom line is if the club is in serious danger of spiralling into a full-on relegation battle then the club/board should act in it's best interests. It is on record that the expectations this season are much higher than where we are now and we are not looking likely of achieving even the bare minimum currently, so obviously question marks hang over TW's management abilities. If we are prepared to give him time, then does the club have contingency plans for a relegation? - I believe DJ said that this was very much not a scenario he wants the club to face as it is very much a potentially disastrous vicious cycle.

Like last season we are in a difficult situation again when it comes to potential managerial change. Last year we suffered from the legacy of the Gray era, with a busted budget. This time around the difficulty would be the implications a TW departure would have on a number of players brought in by TW and potential disruption if a player wants to leave/new players come in.

It appears many are holding out for a miracle of sorts, like at Leamington last season and I am sorry it isn't working out for TW. However, ultimately we have to consider the club and it's direction and if it means bringing in a new manager to salvage our Conference North position then its got to happen. TW may still do that but I just can't see it happening from the time he has managed us and since he has reshaped the majority of the squad - our current position is pinned on him.


agree with every single word...


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 Post subject: Re: Management
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.


That's not the case, and actually it's a little bit patronising to anyone who believes TW is underperforming.

TW and DJ believe we should be pushing for the play-offs. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to think at the least we should be aiming for top 10. And yet we're a place above the drop zone and more often than not, we've put in an inept performance.

And TW's record, both with us and generally, is mediocre at best. This is where the criticism comes from. Not from a belief that we should be doing a Chorley and storming the league.

As for giving him time, well he's had 12 months and has completely reshaped the squad. We're two and a half months into the campaign, approaching a third of the game played, yet there's not really a sign that everything is coming together, despite the extensive changes of the last 12 months. We've gone backwards in my opinion.

How much longer does he need? He's had a full pre-season to impose his ideas and method on his squad. Yet can anyone really say what he's setting out to achieve? It's so inconsistent you can only conclude he doesn't know himself.

I think part of the problem is every victory is labelled by his supporters as massive proof that he's getting it right. Then time after time, we slip up in the next two or three games. If we beat FC United, one of the worst teams in the division, we'll see the usual suspects saying: "Yeah, well in there. He's proving people wrong." Well actually, let's see a consistent run of results, before claiming we've turned a corner.

It's not unreasonable to expect better performances and results at this stage, 12 months on from his appointment.


This as well! agree with every word!


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