Management

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Management Team

Stick with TW & AW & see it come good.
45
69%
Get rid & act fast to save the season.
20
31%
 
Total votes: 65

banktopp
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Re: Management

Post by banktopp » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:15 am

Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.

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Re: Management

Post by real_darlo_85 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:15 am

The bottom line is if the club is in serious danger of spiralling into a full-on relegation battle then the club/board should act in it's best interests. It is on record that the expectations this season are much higher than where we are now and we are not looking likely of achieving even the bare minimum currently, so obviously question marks hang over TW's management abilities. If we are prepared to give him time, then does the club have contingency plans for a relegation? - I believe DJ said that this was very much not a scenario he wants the club to face as it is very much a potentially disastrous vicious cycle.

Like last season we are in a difficult situation again when it comes to potential managerial change. Last year we suffered from the legacy of the Gray era, with a busted budget. This time around the difficulty would be the implications a TW departure would have on a number of players brought in by TW and potential disruption if a player wants to leave/new players come in.

It appears many are holding out for a miracle of sorts, like at Leamington last season and I am sorry it isn't working out for TW. However, ultimately we have to consider the club and it's direction and if it means bringing in a new manager to salvage our Conference North position then its got to happen. TW may still do that but I just can't see it happening from the time he has managed us and since he has reshaped the majority of the squad - our current position is pinned on him.
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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Management

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:03 pm

Yes our current position is pinned on him.

His plans haven't worked out, or aren't working out and I suppose in football (as in life) you can only really find out if something is going to work by trying it.

So to me T.W. needs bit more time to come up with solutions to the problems we have, and I believe that D.J will give him this time. Now is not the time to look for a new management team.

The reality is that we are now in a proper league! We can no longer outsmart opposition managers, or outspend our opponents and our confidence is low. Gray decided this reality wasn't for him and split. He wasn't prepared to knuckle down to a season or two of mid table graft. But that's what we could well be looking at because there's been some big changes lately and it's taking more time than anybody wanted for things to come good.

Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.

I'm not saying T.W's un-sackable, just that it's right that he gets ample time to put things right.
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LoidLucan
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Re: Management

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:30 pm

The one thing that TW's level of management and stats dont suggest this season is midtable mediocrity.

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loan_star
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Re: Management

Post by loan_star » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:40 pm

banktopp wrote:Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.

Thats one of the points I have been making, we know the transfer money in and Marathonbet money went to pay off aged debt so even if Wright did a deal and didn't take all of what he was entitled to, its still money that hasn't been budgeted for and then theres the additional expense of compensating the club we take another manager from. It all adds up.

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D_F_C
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Re: Management

Post by D_F_C » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:56 pm

loan_star wrote:
banktopp wrote:Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.

Thats one of the points I have been making, we know the transfer money in and Marathonbet money went to pay off aged debt so even if Wright did a deal and didn't take all of what he was entitled to, its still money that hasn't been budgeted for and then theres the additional expense of compensating the club we take another manager from. It all adds up.
added to dwindling attendances and the possibility that commercial isn't going well. Don't want to risk the financial security again. Either way you could argue it's a gamble

banktopp
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Re: Management

Post by banktopp » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:42 pm

D_F_C wrote:
loan_star wrote:
banktopp wrote:Isn't the money offered for the managers job the point.
After Gray legged it we would have been in a very poor financial position and not able to offer a great salary. Should we need at some stage to look for another manager then our improved finances should allow for a more competative wage to be offered so we can obtain our first choice rather than third or fourth choice.
We are no longer a 'big time club' and the name Darlington FC does not have the attraction it once had to any ambitious manager.

Thats one of the points I have been making, we know the transfer money in and Marathonbet money went to pay off aged debt so even if Wright did a deal and didn't take all of what he was entitled to, its still money that hasn't been budgeted for and then theres the additional expense of compensating the club we take another manager from. It all adds up.
added to dwindling attendances and the possibility that commercial isn't going well. Don't want to risk the financial security again. Either way you could argue it's a gamble
Arguably relegation to the Evostick would be biggest risk to financial security.
There is no doubt we are in a relegation battle and not on the fringes of a play-off position. Relegation on our topped up playing budget should not be an option.

Darlogramps
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Re: Management

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:01 pm

And as I pointed elsewhere, getting back up is much harder now, because only the champions are guaranteed promotion.

Relegation is certainly not something we can afford. The losses from relegation would be far greater than anything we'd pay for sacking TW if he keeps failing.
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super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Management

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:27 pm

Darlogramps wrote:And as I pointed elsewhere, getting back up is much harder now, because only the champions are guaranteed promotion.

Relegation is certainly not something we can afford. The losses from relegation would be far greater than anything we'd pay for sacking TW if he keeps failing.
Whilst I agree with a lot of the challenges that others have mentioned in terms of TW leaving if things don't get better, I do agree however the cost of relegation would be massive compared to taking a chance on someone new although this in itself wouldn't guarantee anything either.

I personally haven't completely given up on TW as yet, however if current form continues over the next month or so then it will be inevitable in terms of what has to happen one way or another.

Some of the last people to get to the removing TW stage will be the board for a number of reason, mainly costs mentioned, player challenges and the main one will be that whole recruitment process which seemed to be such an issue last year.

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Re: Management

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:16 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote: Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.
That's not the case, and actually it's a little bit patronising to anyone who believes TW is underperforming.

TW and DJ believe we should be pushing for the play-offs. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to think at the least we should be aiming for top 10. And yet we're a place above the drop zone and more often than not, we've put in an inept performance.

And TW's record, both with us and generally, is mediocre at best. This is where the criticism comes from. Not from a belief that we should be doing a Chorley and storming the league.

As for giving him time, well he's had 12 months and has completely reshaped the squad. We're two and a half months into the campaign, approaching a third of the game played, yet there's not really a sign that everything is coming together, despite the extensive changes of the last 12 months. We've gone backwards in my opinion.

How much longer does he need? He's had a full pre-season to impose his ideas and method on his squad. Yet can anyone really say what he's setting out to achieve? It's so inconsistent you can only conclude he doesn't know himself.

I think part of the problem is every victory is labelled by his supporters as massive proof that he's getting it right. Then time after time, we slip up in the next two or three games. If we beat FC United, one of the worst teams in the division, we'll see the usual suspects saying: "Yeah, well in there. He's proving people wrong." Well actually, let's see a consistent run of results, before claiming we've turned a corner.

It's not unreasonable to expect better performances and results at this stage, 12 months on from his appointment.
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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Management

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:33 pm

I don't disagree with your post. T.W. is underperforming, but it seems where we may disagree is with the amount of patience we have, the amount of time we're prepared to allow T.W. to get it right.

I've been following Darlo since 96, and as I'm sure you'll remember there's been some lean years since then, a lot of dull seasons, and a lot of times when managers have faltered, so above I was just trying to point out that now we're in this league, normality is returning - i.e. s*** can happen. It can happen at any club - and we've had a bad start, there's no denying it.

I'm sure T.W and D.J are aiming top ten, personally I'd be disappointed not to achieve top 7, so to repeat myself I don't think our opinions are too far apart -it's more about the timing where we differ - and at present the poll on this thread indicates that more people than not want to give T.W more time.

B.T.W. as a moot point we've played 11 games, so we are in fact just a teeny weeny bit over a quarter of the season played. A half game in fact!
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D_F_C
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Re: Management

Post by D_F_C » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:34 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote: Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.
That's not the case, and actually it's a little bit patronising to anyone who believes TW is underperforming.

TW and DJ believe we should be pushing for the play-offs. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to think at the least we should be aiming for top 10. And yet we're a place above the drop zone and more often than not, we've put in an inept performance.

And TW's record, both with us and generally, is mediocre at best. This is where the criticism comes from. Not from a belief that we should be doing a Chorley and storming the league.

As for giving him time, well he's had 12 months and has completely reshaped the squad. We're two and a half months into the campaign, approaching a third of the game played, yet there's not really a sign that everything is coming together, despite the extensive changes of the last 12 months. We've gone backwards in my opinion.

How much longer does he need? He's had a full pre-season to impose his ideas and method on his squad. Yet can anyone really say what he's setting out to achieve? It's so inconsistent you can only conclude he doesn't know himself.

I think part of the problem is every victory is labelled by his supporters as massive proof that he's getting it right. Then time after time, we slip up in the next two or three games. If we beat FC United, one of the worst teams in the division, we'll see the usual suspects saying: "Yeah, well in there. He's proving people wrong." Well actually, let's see a consistent run of results, before claiming we've turned a corner.

It's not unreasonable to expect better performances and results at this stage, 12 months on from his appointment.
I don’t think there’s anyone privately disagreeing with the fact that the start isn’t good enough. I think there are differences of how much time should be allowed. Some would want him sacked after 1 bad performance. Some after a few, etc etc.

My opinion along with others is a bit more time. It’s only turned October so a bit longer to see any evidence of improvement, but yes Gramps I get what you’re saying.

One thing is though that whilst I agree that relegation would be unthinkable, let’s not get under the misapprehension that replacing TW would get results and steer us away. It could get worse, then we’d have relegation plus the cost of sacking/new manager etc


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Darlogramps
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Re: Management

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:50 pm

D_F_C wrote: One thing is though that whilst I agree that relegation would be unthinkable, let’s not get under the misapprehension that replacing TW would get results and steer us away. It could get worse, then we’d have relegation plus the cost of sacking/new manager etc
True, but it could also get better as well. At which point it becomes a sound investment. There's no way of knowing, so it then becomes a question of what point you're willing to gamble. For me, for TW to stay, there needs to be some evidence that we're improving in terms of results. Performances is one thing, but we need points on the board. I've seen little in the opening 11 games (or indeed his 12 months here) to suggest that's the case.

There's no way of knowing, and all we can judge is whether we think TW will turn things around to avoid relegation. And not just that, but whether we think he's the right person to achieve our aims going forward (which presumably for most people is promotion). With top 10 being realistic, I'd be unhappy even if we beat the drop to finish lower mid-table. Some would cheer it as a success, as they did last year. But it wouldn't be.
B.T.W. as a moot point we've played 11 games, so we are in fact just a teeny weeny bit over a quarter of the season played. A half game in fact!
And in less than a fortnight, we'll have 13 games on the board, which is one shy of a third of the season. The games quickly disappear, which for me is why saying "Give him a bit more time" is just as risky as getting someone fresh in. If results and performances don't pick up, you'll have to stop saying "Give him a few more games" at some point.
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Re: Management

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm

So what you would do to increase the chances of a change spurring an upturn in fortunes and leading to a climb away from relegation is identify an experienced non-league manager from the North-east or North who has on his CV a successful record of leading a side out of the relegation mire when things looked lost.

One with a good, solid record of managing sides on a limited budget and who has proved capable of getting his sides fit and organised with a methodical approach. It would be good if he also has a track record of successfully developing young players.

You also make sure it wouldn't cost the earth to get them out of any contract they are currently on (because it's not that long nor lucrative) and try your hardest to get that man in. That way it may not be such a tortuous appointment process. Shock, horror, they may be someone who doesn't have a past connection with the club but has a fairly long and solid record with some of the right credentials you are seeking.

In this way you can lessen the gamble involved in a change although obviously there are no cast-iron guarantees. And in my view in this kind of crisis situation it would be imperative to get someone with full managerial experience, not someone who has only been an assistant boss.

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Re: Management

Post by shildonlad » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:43 am

Could imagine lack of promotion over the years has reduced the pool of managers for conference north level in the north east as well as players. Out of the managers around evostick/conference level in the north east can’t see many wanting to leave existing clubs especially those at Marsden and Morpeth. Wonder if Gary mills would fancy the job if it became available, knows the level.


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loan_star
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Re: Management

Post by loan_star » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:36 am

I dont think Gary Mills would be a good fit for a limited budget fan owned club.

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Re: Management

Post by Beano » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:43 pm

loan_star wrote:I dont think Gary Mills would be a good fit for a limited budget fan owned club.
The penthouse apartment York provided for him is likely similar to what Tommy will get in wages.

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Re: Management

Post by jjljks » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:04 am

Beano wrote:
loan_star wrote:I dont think Gary Mills would be a good fit for a limited budget fan owned club.
The penthouse apartment York provided for him is likely similar to what Tommy will get in wages.
If only we had kept the Arena, Mills could have had George's penthouse :lol:

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Re: Management

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:09 pm

real_darlo_85 wrote:The bottom line is if the club is in serious danger of spiralling into a full-on relegation battle then the club/board should act in it's best interests. It is on record that the expectations this season are much higher than where we are now and we are not looking likely of achieving even the bare minimum currently, so obviously question marks hang over TW's management abilities. If we are prepared to give him time, then does the club have contingency plans for a relegation? - I believe DJ said that this was very much not a scenario he wants the club to face as it is very much a potentially disastrous vicious cycle.

Like last season we are in a difficult situation again when it comes to potential managerial change. Last year we suffered from the legacy of the Gray era, with a busted budget. This time around the difficulty would be the implications a TW departure would have on a number of players brought in by TW and potential disruption if a player wants to leave/new players come in.

It appears many are holding out for a miracle of sorts, like at Leamington last season and I am sorry it isn't working out for TW. However, ultimately we have to consider the club and it's direction and if it means bringing in a new manager to salvage our Conference North position then its got to happen. TW may still do that but I just can't see it happening from the time he has managed us and since he has reshaped the majority of the squad - our current position is pinned on him.
agree with every single word...

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Re: Management

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:13 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote: Maybe some of us on here got too used to the 1883 steamroller years. They were good but couldn't last forever and we all need to remember where we came from and what has led us to this point.
That's not the case, and actually it's a little bit patronising to anyone who believes TW is underperforming.

TW and DJ believe we should be pushing for the play-offs. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to think at the least we should be aiming for top 10. And yet we're a place above the drop zone and more often than not, we've put in an inept performance.

And TW's record, both with us and generally, is mediocre at best. This is where the criticism comes from. Not from a belief that we should be doing a Chorley and storming the league.

As for giving him time, well he's had 12 months and has completely reshaped the squad. We're two and a half months into the campaign, approaching a third of the game played, yet there's not really a sign that everything is coming together, despite the extensive changes of the last 12 months. We've gone backwards in my opinion.

How much longer does he need? He's had a full pre-season to impose his ideas and method on his squad. Yet can anyone really say what he's setting out to achieve? It's so inconsistent you can only conclude he doesn't know himself.

I think part of the problem is every victory is labelled by his supporters as massive proof that he's getting it right. Then time after time, we slip up in the next two or three games. If we beat FC United, one of the worst teams in the division, we'll see the usual suspects saying: "Yeah, well in there. He's proving people wrong." Well actually, let's see a consistent run of results, before claiming we've turned a corner.

It's not unreasonable to expect better performances and results at this stage, 12 months on from his appointment.
This as well! agree with every word!

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Re: Management

Post by eddie-rowles » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:09 am

Three years to the day we ended our NLN season with a draw at Leamington finished 16th, scored 56 goals , lost 16 games and had 50pts, Tommy Wright was released as we couldn't afford to sack him earlier and save the season , despite previous season finishing 12th, DJ commented " As a board we have to balance that potential versus current results which ultimately haven’t been good enough this season"
AA joined his remit bring back excitement, bring back more fans and score alot more goals than previous teams
Last home game just under 1300 fans, today we have 3 games left to play sit 13th in the table , lost 16 games, scored 56 goals and have 51pts , AA was not kidding this was a long term project

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Re: Management

Post by e4sby » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:13 am

After 2 curtailed seasons this is Alun's first full season after another major rebuild last summer and during the season! I think next season will be make or break for him. If we are not in/challenging the play offs the pressure will be on.

An important summer for AA and to be fair he's started building his squad with his first 5 players tied down for the 22/23 season.

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Re: Management

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:36 am

Two FA Cup runs and a decent enough run in the Trophy, a number of player sales - all in all raising probably £300k whilst steering us through the coivd times.

Basically I can argue negatives and positives of the last three years but wanted to balance the post further up, do I think we are in a much better place than we were, then yes I do.

As mentioned next season is a big season, we are all expecting something a bit more, not just flirting around the mid table to final play off position, we need to be looking to be in around that top 8 throughout the season. Planning for next season seems to have started quite well, but a lot of work for AA to complete.

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Re: Management

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:51 am

Good post above super-les :thumbup:

I think it will be interesting to see what happens in our last 3 games. The pressure (if there ever was any?) is off, but we can still climb up the table and look for a better finish than where we are now. Let's see how the players and management react now, because if they coast along with a "whatever" type attitude, then this says a lot.
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Re: Management

Post by Spyman » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:55 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:36 am
Two FA Cup runs and a decent enough run in the Trophy, a number of player sales - all in all raising probably £300k whilst steering us through the coivd times.

Basically I can argue negatives and positives of the last three years but wanted to balance the post further up, do I think we are in a much better place than we were, then yes I do.

As mentioned next season is a big season, we are all expecting something a bit more, not just flirting around the mid table to final play off position, we need to be looking to be in around that top 8 throughout the season. Planning for next season seems to have started quite well, but a lot of work for AA to complete.
We also seem to have a much more coherent recruitment strategy, primarily bringing in local players who can be developed and sold on, supplemented with some experienced heads.

On the pitch, in terms of results, goals scored, points, we're ahead of where we were under Wright. Not miles ahead, but ahead nonetheless. We flirted with the play-offs this season which is as good as anyone expected despite a complete rebuild.
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Re: Management

Post by Darlobill » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:19 pm

IMO TW should have been given another season after Gray dominating the club for so long he was asked to sell players and he I believe since relegation from the league he sold the most players with the largest revenue on sales. He set up the the Academy which can only go from strength to strength however he didn’t have the confidence of the DFCSG board hence his dismissal.
Alun is looking good for next season and with the last two years behind us I personally think he will do well however if he doesn’t then questions will be start being asked by October.

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Re: Management

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:03 pm

TW was not cut out for football management and his patchy record deteriorated further after he left us followed by a complete change of career. The experiment in so many long-distance players was crazy and we had a small, unbalanced squad with problems behind the scenes as some players came up with "all the excuses under the sun" why they couldn't attend training. Lots of fans had lost confidence in TW as a manager and this was reflected in feedback to the supporters group. The club is in far better hands now and I for one am looking to the future with confidence.

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Re: Management

Post by H1987 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:04 am

Not a fan of changing managers during the season unless it's a complete disaster and the manager has totally lost the fans. To me, Alun should get next season unless he's basically in danger of taking us down somehow (which I can't imagine). I agree I'd like to see some progress towards the playoffs. While I think we've stagnated a bit, I think the context of covid can't be ignored.

TW was a disaster of a manager. His recruitment caused so many problems. I think, in reality, he shouldn't have had to the job to begin with, and was only given a go as a former player. Nice guy, undoubtedly, but his time was up when he went, and he left us in a poor position. I don't accept he inherited a bad squad either. He chose to reshape it in his way and it was a mess. Our bench being filled with 16 year old kids you wouldn't trust to actually play was a disgrace (and I don't think it's a coincidence that absolutely none of them have made it since - did any of those kids even make it in the lower levels?!)

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Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Management

Post by H1987 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:14 am

Just had a google as i'm bored at work.

Sanny Lingthep - No club
Mitchell Glover - No club
Harry Stansfield - No club
Brandon Morrison - No club (appears to have been picked up by Pickering and didn't make it there)
Thomas Lycett - No club
Kieron Dunn - No club
Ciaran Banks - No club
Jack Vaulks - Shildon

Out of all those players that regularly constituted our entire bench under TW, only one of them actually still plays football. Only one of the others actually even got a go somewhere else. No disrespect to any of them and I'm sure they're all levels about my seven a side ability, but it's is a damning indictment that TW chose them to fill our bench while blowing our budget on unfit players from the midlands and subsidise their travel. A complete disaster, and unlike TW, AA had a real rebuild that actually improved our squad. TW inherited a reasonable squad and made it worse in nearly every way.

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Spyman
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Management

Post by Spyman » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:24 am

Other than Glover and Vaulks, I have zero recollection of any of those names. Maybe Lingthep. Did they really make our matchday squads?

I do vaguely remember Wright having some weird policy of always having a kid on the bench just so they could experience the match day - is that correct?
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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