Leamington v Darlington

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divas
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by divas » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:00 pm

Quakerlad wrote:If you think that most fans will be happy at end of season as long as we end with a small profit and no further debt, then you definitely don’t talk to the fans that I know.!

Let’s me honest, with the amount of additional income that has come into club in last 12 months, then even a mention of any further debt should be a joke. Ie. Sold 7 really good players for a lot money for our level in last 12 months, apart from £130k from fans and celebration money.

I would still like someone from the club to actually give us some reasoning why we are again suffering financial issues in view of above. It’s like we sell our star striker for financial reasons then no one even mentions it, not TW or anyone from club. How on earth can Ray Simpson do interviews with the management team a few days after and not even mention the word “Styche” .

Surely us fans who raised all this money deserve better communication.
The accounts will be out until the end of June soon. That will answer most of your questions as to why we’re not awash with cash despite having a perceived positive balance sheet since. Until then listen to the knowledgable ones on here who have told you why.

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:41 pm

I'm guessing that the accounts until June cover the 17-18 season. With the amount of money that's come in e.g Heaton, Marathonbet, Styche, Turnbull, Gillies, then the budget must have been set astronomically too high at the start of 17-18.

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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:51 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:I'm guessing that the accounts until June cover the 17-18 season. With the amount of money that's come in e.g Heaton, Marathonbet, Styche, Turnbull, Gillies, then the budget must have been set astronomically too high at the start of 17-18.
We were about 350 down on average attendances from what I understand in 17/18, we expected average of about 1,800 I think at the start and that didn't include clearing the debt. Hence Wright having to reduce his budget, sell players and work with what he had.

We are finally getting to grips with it all and the club has paid off the debt, now got a commercial manager who should develop a decent chunk of revenue, 50% of the 500 club has one more year to go.

Just need to hold our nerve and we are starting to put ourselves in a much better situation. We actually need Wright to get some results and ensure we don't drop around the bottom to finish the season in good shape.

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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:45 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:I'm guessing that the accounts until June cover the 17-18 season. With the amount of money that's come in e.g Heaton, Marathonbet, Styche, Turnbull, Gillies, then the budget must have been set astronomically too high at the start of 17-18.
The thing is with the accounts until June 18, is that they are by their nature out of date, they are a correct reflection at that point in time, but we have moved on significantly in time - what we need is a set of accounts at 31/10/18, and forecasts, actuals Vs budget - we aren't going to get that.
The accounts June 17-18 are almost a form filling exercise giving as little information as possible, its just a legal requirement.
























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super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:56 pm

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:I'm guessing that the accounts until June cover the 17-18 season. With the amount of money that's come in e.g Heaton, Marathonbet, Styche, Turnbull, Gillies, then the budget must have been set astronomically too high at the start of 17-18.
The thing is with the accounts until June 18, is that they are by their nature out of date, they are a correct reflection at that point in time, but we have moved on significantly in time - what we need is a set of accounts at 31/10/18, and forecasts, actuals Vs budget - we aren't going to get that.
The accounts June 17-18 are almost a form filling exercise giving as little information as possible, its just a legal requirement.    
[/quote]

I have as much interest as the next person in the clubs accounts but why at the moment do we need accounts made up to 31/10/18?

In fairness to Johnston he is pretty open in regards to finances at the forums, I would expect accounts from last season but also an update on where we are - which is what normally is given rather than accounts made up exactly.

Not sure what we are saying, is it that we don't trust the board unless they prove things with official accounts?

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:02 pm

loan_star wrote:
Quakerlad wrote:If you think that most fans will be happy at end of season as long as we end with a small profit and no further debt, then you definitely don’t talk to the fans that I know.!

Let’s me honest, with the amount of additional income that has come into club in last 12 months, then even a mention of any further debt should be a joke. Ie. Sold 7 really good players for a lot money for our level in last 12 months, apart from £130k from fans and celebration money.

I would still like someone from the club to actually give us some reasoning why we are again suffering financial issues in view of above. It’s like we sell our star striker for financial reasons then no one even mentions it, not TW or anyone from club. How on earth can Ray Simpson do interviews with the management team a few days after and not even mention the word “Styche” .

Surely us fans who raised all this money deserve better communication.

You obviously have no idea how much aged debt the club had. Are you saying that the club should just run up another debt to keep a vociferous minority happy by spending money on players that we can't afford?
I don't think he's saying that though. He's wanting communication and reasoning, from the horses mouth so to speak - seems fair enough.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Quakerlad
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by Quakerlad » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:11 pm

I,m sorry, but at a meeting at the Dolphin Centre in Feb this year our CEO asked us to raise £50k to “pay off all the previous debt and give us a small cash reserve to put us on a sound financial footing for the first time for years.”
As usual the fans did exactly what was asked and since then have seen another £80k from fans, £20k celebration, and at least £100k from Heaton, Turnbull, Gillies and Styche. ( appreciate some of the transfer money will be in stages) .

The accounts to June will not even show any of this money so all I think we deserve is an explanation or at worst the opportunity to ask the question. Why did you tell us the £50k we raised would put us on a sound footing, then 8 mths later after another C£200k in additional revenue, why are we selling players for financial reasons.

I,m definitely not saying we should spend more money.....I just think that given what was said in Feb and happened since, we deserve some communication......instead we have had nothing!

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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by jonn » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:40 pm

It can't be coincidence that time after time we concede goals within minutes of making substitutions. At Leamington it happened again - two up, against ten men, we start changing the team and formation and fall to pieces. If it ain't broke, don't mend it.

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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by jonn » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:45 pm

Don't know who's in charge of the time on this site, but the clocks went back last night.

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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:38 pm

Quakerlad wrote:If you think that most fans will be happy at end of season as long as we end with a small profit and no further debt, then you definitely don’t talk to the fans that I know.!

Let’s me honest, with the amount of additional income that has come into club in last 12 months, then even a mention of any further debt should be a joke. Ie. Sold 7 really good players for a lot money for our level in last 12 months, apart from £130k from fans and celebration money.

I would still like someone from the club to actually give us some reasoning why we are again suffering financial issues in view of above. It’s like we sell our star striker for financial reasons then no one even mentions it, not TW or anyone from club. How on earth can Ray Simpson do interviews with the management team a few days after and not even mention the word “Styche” .

Surely us fans who raised all this money deserve better communication.
Some of Quakerlad's points are actually quite fair, although I have more faith that DJ and the rest of the board will be open and proper about our finances, as they have always been so far.

The club themselves said Styche was sold because our attendances are lower than expected, and one of the main ways for making up that shortfall, a cup run, has obviously not come to fruition. You can't say they haven't been clear.

And what's with this stupid hammering of Ray Simpson all the time? He works for the club - are people expecting him to be slating TW in every interview? As I've said before, Stoddart is independent of the club. If any difficult questions are going to be asked, it should be from him.
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lo36789
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by lo36789 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:11 am

Quakerlad wrote:If you think that most fans will be happy at end of season as long as we end with a small profit and no further debt, then you definitely don’t talk to the fans that I know.!
I think though some people will never be happy - whatever we achieve they wanted the next best thing and feel entitled to that.

At the start of the season we were losing but common opinion was we were actually playing good football “yes but it’s a results business” are the cries. Now we have had a few ugly wins the complaints are that we won ugly “it was luck”.

I also think some people are completely oblivious to the costs involved of running a football club at this level. I was told that Stockport need to average nearly 3,000 to simply cover the cost of their ground.

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loan_star
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by loan_star » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:46 am

jonn wrote:It can't be coincidence that time after time we concede goals within minutes of making substitutions. At Leamington it happened again - two up, against ten men, we start changing the team and formation and fall to pieces. If it ain't broke, don't mend it.
Time after time after making subs? Most of the goals we have conceded lately have been in the first half so that statement seems a bit daft.
As has been said elsewhere, Elliott went off with an injury so Syers came on, it was either him or play Burn in there or bring a kid on. We kept the same formation until we conceded the equaliser then Burn came on and we went more of a 442.
You can imagine had he played Burn in midfield people would have been saying whys he playing Burn there and not Syers. With hindsight however it may not have been a bad move doing that.

MikeinBlack2
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by MikeinBlack2 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:14 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:Last few comments are about right, same as if we win on Tuesday night that doesn't make Wright a genius and a job for life, just the same as losing a two goal lead yesterday against 10 men isn't an instant out the door.

Think we all need to be a bit more pragmatic, obviously if Wright had lost the last 3 we would be really looking at a different way forward but we can't have a melt down every time something doesn't go well like yesterday.

From a board point of view the last thing they will want is to make a change in management currently, I think the target will be to achieve a mid-table finish and a flirtation with play-offs would be great, but to end with a small profit and no further debt will make most happy.


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quakerman
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by quakerman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:22 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerlad wrote:If you think that most fans will be happy at end of season as long as we end with a small profit and no further debt, then you definitely don’t talk to the fans that I know.!

Let’s me honest, with the amount of additional income that has come into club in last 12 months, then even a mention of any further debt should be a joke. Ie. Sold 7 really good players for a lot money for our level in last 12 months, apart from £130k from fans and celebration money.

I would still like someone from the club to actually give us some reasoning why we are again suffering financial issues in view of above. It’s like we sell our star striker for financial reasons then no one even mentions it, not TW or anyone from club. How on earth can Ray Simpson do interviews with the management team a few days after and not even mention the word “Styche” .

Surely us fans who raised all this money deserve better communication.
Some of Quakerlad's points are actually quite fair, although I have more faith that DJ and the rest of the board will be open and proper about our finances, as they have always been so far.

The club themselves said Styche was sold because our attendances are lower than expected, and one of the main ways for making up that shortfall, a cup run, has obviously not come to fruition. You can't say they haven't been clear.

And what's with this stupid hammering of Ray Simpson all the time? He works for the club - are people expecting him to be slating TW in every interview? As I've said before, Stoddart is independent of the club. If any difficult questions are going to be asked, it should be from him.
Totally agree with Gramps here, how the hell can anyone with a brain cell level any criticism towards RS....crazy.


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en passant
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by en passant » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:27 am

Just seen the highlights and it looks as if we weren't perfect in the first half but were showing greater fluidity than in the two recent wins. Whilst hoping that this will encourage more free-flowing football that we know the team is capable of, we clearly can't forget the need to defend well. We are a great attacking force when it all comes together, but as was seen in the first game of the season, one error of judgement can suddenly undermine all the good work. I think a few more ugly wins would suit at the moment, just to build up the back catalogue of confidence before we start getting ahead of ourselves and reaching for the stars.

When we faced BPA last year at their place they had just had a thumping 5-0 win during the week and we were going there pretty much as we are at the moment, with a few signs of recovery but still on shaky ground. A gritty performance and a couple of flowing moves got us a victory last year, and I would hope for the same tomorrow night.

LoidLucan
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:30 am

Just looked like a fair result. Two sides that opened each other up, neither of which looked very solid when put under pressure. It probably summed up where we are as a team. We can knock the ball about fairly well on occasions but we don't look a consistently well drilled, solid side, especially when we are put on the back foot.

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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by quakerman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:48 am

LoidLucan wrote:Just looked like a fair result. Two sides that opened each other up, neither of which looked very solid when put under pressure. It probably summed up where we are as a team. We can knock the ball about fairly well on occasions but we don't look a consistently well drilled, solid side, especially when we are put on the back foot.
Agree with this to a tee, we are simply not tough enough and need a more physical starting eleven,They had a one on one which should have put them 3-2 up and that is with 10 men for God’s sake.Not sure what Henshall brings to the team, never makes any attacking runs and just keeps playing nothing square balls.Elliott too lightweight and we need someone in midfield with a bit of steel.If we are to go with 3 at the back then bring in Burn and have Trotman as a wingback.


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Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 am

lo36789 wrote: I was told that Stockport need to average nearly 3,000 to simply cover the cost of their ground.
Well that's quite obviously shite.

If that was the case they would have zero playing budget, but they are not far off being full time.
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Re: Leamington v Darlington

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:41 am

Quakerlad wrote:I,m sorry, but at a meeting at the Dolphin Centre in Feb this year our CEO asked us to raise £50k to “pay off all the previous debt and give us a small cash reserve to put us on a sound financial footing for the first time for years.”
As usual the fans did exactly what was asked and since then have seen another £80k from fans, £20k celebration, and at least £100k from Heaton, Turnbull, Gillies and Styche. ( appreciate some of the transfer money will be in stages) .

The accounts to June will not even show any of this money so all I think we deserve is an explanation or at worst the opportunity to ask the question. Why did you tell us the £50k we raised would put us on a sound footing, then 8 mths later after another C£200k in additional revenue, why are we selling players for financial reasons.

I,m definitely not saying we should spend more money.....I just think that given what was said in Feb and happened since, we deserve some communication......instead we have had nothing!
Mostly agree with you, but you need to drop the 80k BTB and stop going on as if it's an extra windfall - as every penny of that has gone into increasing the budget to 80k more than it would have been.

Had the budget remained exactly the same and the 80k was therefore an extra, spare 80k, then you could add it to the list and question where it has gone.

In reality the 50k last season and the 20k marathon bet money, has gone into legacy debt. They're gone, they're spent already. The 80k BTB is irrelevant to the financial health of the club, as it was never intended as a cash buffer.

So what we actually have for this season is simply this - normal cashflow plus several transfer fees, however we may not have received very much as yet.

It's not hard to see how lower than expected crowds, no cup prize money, and probably lower than forecast commercial income has created a hole that the transfer fees received so far this season barely cover.
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