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 Post subject: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Given the disappointments of the current season, I was wondering how it compared to last season at this point.

At 17 games, as we are at present, we had 5 wins, 6 draws and 6 defeats, so 21 points from a possible 51. We had scored 20 goals and shipped 22. Goal difference - 2. So one point different and very similar goals for and against to what we have now.

Looking at the next 10 games last year we had 1 win, 3 draws and 6 defeats, scoring 12 and losing 20, getting 26 points total at that point. This is the period in which we eventually signed and bedded in Styche who provided the momentum to dig us out of the hole we were in in the last 15 games of the season where we had 8 wins, 4 draws and 3 defeats.

In the 6 games up to the 17 game point last year we had won 1, drawn 2 and lost 3. This year it is won 2, drawn 4, lost none. So quite a different outlook from what we had at that point last year.

So coming into this point last year we were on a downward spiral that continued for a long time after this point, leaving little time to turn things around in the final 15, but thanks to the injection of Styche something of a miracle was achieved.

Of course, last season was compromised by the losing of MG and the appointment of TW that, it was reasoned, took some time to overcome and that the return over the last 15 games showed that we were back on track and could look forward to this season with confidence. This was expressed in pre-season statements of intent to be challenging for the play-offs.

We are now looking askance at that intent and finding it worryingly incompatible with where we are in the table, with a dreadful home form and a paucity of wins. There have already been grumbles against how we are playing, the budget, and having to sell Styche, who, based on last season, was the talisman that could have yet saved us from mid table nothingness or, even worse, a relegation battle.

The one positive in the above stats is that our current form going into the 17 game mark is rather more positive than last year, and last year's continued slump in the next 10 games shows that we are approaching the next 10 games this year in a better place if we can start finding the magic spark that will get us wins over draws. Last year, although it took time, that spark was Styche. Will the current team or Tommy find that extra ingredient that will get us going earlier than last year and avoid the dicing with relegation that put pressure on everyone? Have we got enough this year to make up for the Styche effect that will get us in a positive frame of mind? On the basis of the last few results it is very much in the balance.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:27 pm 
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en passant wrote:
Given the disappointments of the current season, I was wondering how it compared to last season at this point.

At 17 games, as we are at present, we had 5 wins, 6 draws and 6 defeats, so 21 points from a possible 51. We had scored 20 goals and shipped 22. Goal difference - 2. So one point different and very similar goals for and against to what we have now.

Looking at the next 10 games last year we had 1 win, 3 draws and 6 defeats, scoring 12 and losing 20, getting 26 points total at that point. This is the period in which we eventually signed and bedded in Styche who provided the momentum to dig us out of the hole we were in in the last 15 games of the season where we had 8 wins, 4 draws and 3 defeats.

In the 6 games up to the 17 game point last year we had won 1, drawn 2 and lost 3. This year it is won 2, drawn 4, lost none. So quite a different outlook from what we had at that point last year.

So coming into this point last year we were on a downward spiral that continued for a long time after this point, leaving little time to turn things around in the final 15, but thanks to the injection of Styche something of a miracle was achieved.

Of course, last season was compromised by the losing of MG and the appointment of TW that, it was reasoned, took some time to overcome and that the return over the last 15 games showed that we were back on track and could look forward to this season with confidence. This was expressed in pre-season statements of intent to be challenging for the play-offs.

We are now looking askance at that intent and finding it worryingly incompatible with where we are in the table, with a dreadful home form and a paucity of wins. There have already been grumbles against how we are playing, the budget, and having to sell Styche, who, based on last season, was the talisman that could have yet saved us from mid table nothingness or, even worse, a relegation battle.

The one positive in the above stats is that our current form going into the 17 game mark is rather more positive than last year, and last year's continued slump in the next 10 games shows that we are approaching the next 10 games this year in a better place if we can start finding the magic spark that will get us wins over draws. Last year, although it took time, that spark was Styche. Will the current team or Tommy find that extra ingredient that will get us going earlier than last year and avoid the dicing with relegation that put pressure on everyone? Have we got enough this year to make up for the Styche effect that will get us in a positive frame of mind? On the basis of the last few results it is very much in the balance.


A very good summary, all in the balance at this moment in time.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:03 pm 
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en passant wrote:
paucity


Nice word :clap:

Thinking about the "Styche effect" - I wonder if Styche would still be here if T.W. hadn't of signed Ainge? It's just that Ainge hasn't had much of an effect yet.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Speaking to someone within the game who made quite a few league appearances for Darlo amongst others, he said he would have had Ainge over Styche every time. Ainge always occupies defenders whereas Styche is a loose cannon who just does what he wants and isn't the team player Ainge is.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:20 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Speaking to someone within the game who made quite a few league appearances for Darlo amongst others, he said he would have had Ainge over Styche every time. Ainge always occupies defenders whereas Styche is a loose cannon who just does what he wants and isn't the team player Ainge is.


Forgive me, but why does the fact he used to play for Darlo have any relevance at all? It's an appeal to authority, a common flaw in an argument. His opinion (for that is all it is) is just as valid as mine or yours. If he came up with the opinion we should be playing O'Hanlon in goal, you would disagree, so I don't see why the fact he's an ex-player has any relevance on his opinion of today's squad.

I'd rather have Styche over Ainge from this season any day. Styche is a maverick (wouldn't agree with the loose cannon description at all) but he can turn a game, and had a good goal return in his spell with us. Ainge has, by general consensus, been well below-par and at times, infuriatingly incompetent.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Speaking to someone within the game who made quite a few league appearances for Darlo amongst others, he said he would have had Ainge over Styche every time. Ainge always occupies defenders whereas Styche is a loose cannon who just does what he wants and isn't the team player Ainge is.


Forgive me, but why does the fact he used to play for Darlo have any relevance at all? It's an appeal to authority, a common flaw in an argument. His opinion (for that is all it is) is just as valid as mine or yours. If he came up with the opinion we should be playing O'Hanlon in goal, you would disagree, so I don't see why the fact he's an ex-player has any relevance on his opinion of today's squad.

I'd rather have Styche over Ainge from this season any day. Styche is a maverick (wouldn't agree with the loose cannon description at all) but he can turn a game, and had a good goal return in his spell with us. Ainge has, by general consensus, been well below-par and at times, infuriatingly incompetent.


Ok then, forget he used to play for Darlo. He used to play for other league clubs as well, I'll not mention them though. However as he is an ex professional footballer and fully qualified coach, and has worked with both players in a coaching capacity, I value his opinion more than I do some message board warriors, many of whom probably couldn't hack it at sunday league level.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:37 pm 
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loan_star wrote:

Ok then, forget he used to play for Darlo. He used to play for other league clubs as well, I'll not mention them though. However as he is an ex professional footballer and fully qualified coach, and has worked with both players in a coaching capacity, I value his opinion more than I do some message board warriors, many of whom probably couldn't hack it at sunday league level.


So if he said O'Hanlon should play in goal, or Maddison should play up front, would you also value that opinion more? Because by the logic you've outlined above, you would.

Surely you rate an opinion based on whether it makes sense, and the quality of the justification for it, rather than how good a footballer they were a decade ago or whether they've got their coaching badges? Footballers, coaches and managers can have crap opinions.

Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't value his opinion more. That's entirely up to you. But saying "He's an ex-footballer, therefore his opinion is more valid" is a very flawed, almost contemptible, way of arguing.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:

Ok then, forget he used to play for Darlo. He used to play for other league clubs as well, I'll not mention them though. However as he is an ex professional footballer and fully qualified coach, and has worked with both players in a coaching capacity, I value his opinion more than I do some message board warriors, many of whom probably couldn't hack it at sunday league level.


So if he said O'Hanlon should play in goal, or Maddison should play up front, would you also value that opinion more? Because by the logic you've outlined above, you would.

Surely you rate an opinion based on whether it makes sense, and the quality of the justification for it, rather than how good a footballer they were a decade ago?

Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't value his opinion more. That's entirely up to you. But saying "He's an ex-footballer, therefore his opinion is more valid" is a very flawed, almost contemptible, way of arguing.


Now you are being stupid trying to justify your response. If I had made such a comeback then you would have straight in with one of your "what a stupid reply" posts.
This particular ex pro is also a fully qualified coach who has worked with both players, which I have already pointed out, so I would hazard a guess he has more of a clue what each player brings to the team than Joe Bloggs on the terraces.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:54 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Now you are being stupid trying to justify your response. If I had made such a comeback then you would have straight in with one of your "what a stupid reply" posts.
This particular ex pro is also a fully qualified coach who has worked with both players, which I have already pointed out, so I would hazard a guess he has more of a clue what each player brings to the team than Joe Bloggs on the terraces.


If you'd made the point you should judge a man's arguments on the basis of his evidence and justification, rather than his previous jobs, I wouldn't describe that as stupid at all. I think that's a perfectly reasonable point of view.

Sir Alex Ferguson knows more about football than me. But if he said Jonny Maddison's best position was striker, he'd be talking rubbish. It's an extreme example, but it puts across the point that you assess an argument on the basis of it's quality and justification, not on the basis of who is saying it. I really don't see how anyone could disagree with that.

Generally speaking, cravenly following one person's opinion on anything because of his past, rather applying your own critical thinking IS stupid. Otherwise you become an unthinking serf, following other people for the rest of your life.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Well considering i qualified the ex pro bit with also being a fully qualified coach who has worked with both players I would say that makes your argument against it unnecessary and nit picking wheres theres no need to.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:23 pm 
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I'd listen to that opinion on the grounds it is clearly correct. When styche went missing you may as well have played with 10 men.

Honestly, that Stockport game their defenders barely did a thing before ainge arrived. Ainge is big, strong and gives you an outlet you don't get from styche, who, when the ball same his way, almost always fouled his defender, then whinge, then did nothing.

Right, I don't get the styche love in at all. I appreciate there was a lot he did off the pitch, but on it, he never pressed (God, I hated watching opposition defenders in possession with styche dawdling around them), he never held the ball up, he never seemed to bring others into play, he looked out iof shape, and as a captain he was poor. Yes he scored some goals, but his overall play, I thought, detracted from the team as a whole. Occasional flashes of flair then long periods of inertia... actually he encapsulated the whole Tommy Wright era pretty nicely.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:56 pm 
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tdk1 wrote:
actually he encapsulated the whole Tommy Wright era pretty nicely.


Past tense??


I'm not particularly bothered about losing Styche but I won't be happy if we just plod along from this position and don't change the squad around a bit. Let's try to get Caton and Collins away, and if we are reaping the benefits of a full time commercial manager, let's get this into the playing side of things.

This time nearly two years ago was our first match at Blackwell Meadows, here is the team that played V Halifax 26/12/16.

Jameson, Marrs, Galbraith, Turnbull, Burgess, Brown, Thompson (sub Falkingham 70), Scott, Beck, Cartman (sub Hardy 82), Gillies (sub Syers 88)
Subs: Hunter, Bell.

Now here is the team from yesterday V Hereford

Darlington: Hemming, Trotman, O’Hanlon, Elliott, Hughes, Galbraith, Nicholson, Wheatley, Saunders, Syers, Thompson
Subs: Glover, Maddison, Henshall, Burn, Ainge.

In some ways we have better footballers now but comparing these two line ups against each other suggests to me that this present team lacks physical strength and a bit of firepower.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:08 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Well considering i qualified the ex pro bit with also being a fully qualified coach who has worked with both players I would say that makes your argument against it unnecessary and nit picking wheres theres no need to.


I don't think it's unnecessary at all. I'm making a very fair point that I'm sure most people would agree with.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:13 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
tdk1 wrote:
actually he encapsulated the whole Tommy Wright era pretty nicely.


Past tense??



Wishful thinking.

Seeing the players we've lost hurts a bit. I wouldn't care a bit if we lost about 6 of that starting xi from yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:25 pm 
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tdk1 wrote:
I'd listen to that opinion on the grounds it is clearly correct. When styche went missing you may as well have played with 10 men.

Honestly, that Stockport game their defenders barely did a thing before ainge arrived. Ainge is big, strong and gives you an outlet you don't get from styche, who, when the ball same his way, almost always fouled his defender, then whinge, then did nothing.

Right, I don't get the styche love in at all. I appreciate there was a lot he did off the pitch, but on it, he never pressed (God, I hated watching opposition defenders in possession with styche dawdling around them), he never held the ball up, he never seemed to bring others into play, he looked out iof shape, and as a captain he was poor. Yes he scored some goals, but his overall play, I thought, detracted from the team as a whole. Occasional flashes of flair then long periods of inertia... actually he encapsulated the whole Tommy Wright era pretty nicely.


I'm going to disagree. Firstly, let's not exaggerate with phrases like "love-in". All a bit OTT and childish. It's simply that a lot of people really rated his contribution to us. He didn't just score "some goals", his rate was very good - 1 in 2. You'll be hard pressed to find a striker in the division with a better rate than that. And he quite clearly really liked being here. For someone like Ainge, it just seems like another gig to them.

As for Ainge, I don't really see what he's brought to the team. I remember him in the FC United game - he was utterly abysmal. Lazy, unfit, the ball bounced off him, no control. Give me Styche over that any day. I've never understood the love for a man "who provides an outlet". To me that's just code for "a big guy we can lump a long ball towards". Theoretically he should provide threat from set pieces, but I've not seen that.

I don't understand some your criticisms of Styche/justifications of Ainge. For instance, pressing - I don't think I've ever seen Ainge himself press because he can barely move. More like a big tree-trunk in the middle of the park. And the Stockport game, it should be pointed we didn't score and never looked like scoring, so Ainge didn't have that much of an impact.

Ainge is probably more of a team player (not that it's done much good for us mind) than Styche, but give me a maverick and a mercurial talent who can turn a game on his own, over a "big strong targetman" any day of the week.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:44 pm 
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But I'm not even sure styche was all that mercurial. He wasn't especially inventive, particularly in terms of supporting or playing in other players. He rarely seemed to make something from nothing. I thought his decision making was very poor.

Ainge hasn't shown anything like enough so far, I'll agree with that. But honestly, a bit more physicality really wouldn't go amiss at the moment. Ainge has had injuries last season and this, some don't think we've probably seen the best of him yet. My last paragraph was more about styche than ainge though.

I think the love in was more on Facebook and Twitter than on here.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
I'm making a very fair point that I'm sure most people would agree with.


Now if I was to make a comment like that you would be saying I'm making an appeal for back up (or authority already in this thread) or some other ridiculous comment. Like when you have a dig at comments like "everyone around me agrees" etc.
If you are going to have a pop at people then at least make sure you dont make the same type of comment yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:

Ok then, forget he used to play for Darlo. He used to play for other league clubs as well, I'll not mention them though. However as he is an ex professional footballer and fully qualified coach, and has worked with both players in a coaching capacity, I value his opinion more than I do some message board warriors, many of whom probably couldn't hack it at sunday league level.


So if he said O'Hanlon should play in goal, or Maddison should play up front, would you also value that opinion more?


The coach didn't and wouldn't say that, and to ask what loan_star might think if he did say that - is a moot point. It's pointless going down that route.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:11 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
I'm making a very fair point that I'm sure most people would agree with.


Now if I was to make a comment like that you would be saying I'm making an appeal for back up (or authority already in this thread) or some other ridiculous comment. Like when you have a dig at comments like "everyone around me agrees" etc.
If you are going to have a pop at people then at least make sure you dont make the same type of comment yourself.


This looks like a slam dunk to me. Hypocrisy undermines arguments.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
I'm making a very fair point that I'm sure most people would agree with.


Now if I was to make a comment like that you would be saying I'm making an appeal for back up (or authority already in this thread) or some other ridiculous comment. Like when you have a dig at comments like "everyone around me agrees" etc.
If you are going to have a pop at people then at least make sure you dont make the same type of comment yourself.


This looks like a slam dunk to me. Hypocrisy undermines arguments.


There's absolutely nothing hypocritical about what I've said because my point is very fair and true.

If anyone disagrees with the idea you should judge an argument on its content, and not the the past of the person making it, then frankly they're too stupid for words. I can't seriously believe either of you two would dispute that.

There's a big difference between that argument, and the Ainge/Styche discussion, because with Ainge/Styche you can make a reasonable argument either way. It's a subjective discussion, whereas I'd think and hope most people would accept judging an argument on content, instead of the person's past, is a fairly obvious point to accept.

Although loan_star, I'd like to see some examples of where I've made those type of comments. Before throwing ideas like hypocrisy around, it'd be fair for you to present where I've made those comments, so we can see everything in context. Given you're so sure, it won't be hard for you to dig them up.

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:

Ok then, forget he used to play for Darlo. He used to play for other league clubs as well, I'll not mention them though. However as he is an ex professional footballer and fully qualified coach, and has worked with both players in a coaching capacity, I value his opinion more than I do some message board warriors, many of whom probably couldn't hack it at sunday league level.


So if he said O'Hanlon should play in goal, or Maddison should play up front, would you also value that opinion more?


The coach didn't and wouldn't say that, and to ask what loan_star might think if he did say that - is a moot point.


Absolutely isn't a moot point at all. If my criticism is that loan_star in his original post (before he felt the need to qualify it) was appealing to authority, it's perfectly reasonable to ask if the same figure made a ridiculous point, would he also agree with it?

It illustrates why saying "He's an ex-Darlo player" is completely irrelevant to the argument. Can't understand why he didn't include the fact this coach has worked with Ainge and Styche before in his initial point.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:

It illustrates why saying "He's an ex-Darlo player" is completely irrelevant to the argument. Can't understand why he didn't include the fact this coach has worked with Ainge and Styche before in his initial point.


Probably because I didnt expect someone to be pedantic about finer points. An ex professional footballer will know more than the average punter about the game and what makes a decent player.

Darlogramps wrote:
Although loan_star, I'd like to see some examples of where I've made those type of comments. Before throwing ideas like hypocrisy around, it'd be fair for you to present where I've made those comments, so we can see everything in context. Given you're so sure, it won't be hard for you to dig them up.


Maybe when I get a minute I'll have a trawl through your posts and find some examples.
For now I'll make do with this one, you quite often have a pop at people who use swear words in their posts, saying it undermines their argument but you have done that yourself below....

Darlogramps wrote:
50 years wrote:
We seem to have a number of fans who believe that we should be beating everyone, (maybe they are confusing us with Man City?).
Here we go again with this patronising crap.

No one is saying we should be beating everyone or that we should be playing like Brazil. It's exaggerated bullshit.

All people are saying is we should be achieving more than what we're doing. It's not asking much for a side that's supposedly a top 10 team to not be struggling to a 2-2 draw against the least in-form side in the league.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Absolutely isn't a moot point at all. If my criticism is that loan_star in his original post (before he felt the need to qualify it) was appealing to authority, it's perfectly reasonable to ask if the same figure made a ridiculous point, would he also agree with it?

It illustrates why saying "He's an ex-Darlo player" is completely irrelevant to the argument. Can't understand why he didn't include the fact this coach has worked with Ainge and Styche before in his initial point.


End of the day, mentioning that it's an ex Darlo player in the sentence is simply a point of interest, what with us being Darlo fans on a Darlo board. It interested me to know that.

It is not necessarily an appeal to authority to mention that the person was an ex Darlo player, not any more than mentioning that he's a qualified coach or has worked with the 2 said players.

In any case, you would expect that that this guy would have a decent idea what he is talking about - so maybe it's not even wrong to appeal to authority or expertise or whatever, in this context.

If you want to know something is it often not a good idea to seek the idea of an expert instead of asking someone down the pub?

Now I'm not saying that a bloke down the pub can't have expertise in a subject, but often he won't have, or he might just be pissed.

Anyway, I actually agree with some of the things that the bloke said regarding Styche and Ainge - not cos he's an expert (which he most likely is) but just because that I tend to have a similar opinion anyway.

FWIW I think Ainge has been a bit unlucky with a couple of niggling injuries which has meant missing a couple of matches, and not being 100% fit in others. Throw in a couple games at centre half and you can see why he hasn't properly got going, it's all been a bit stop start.

From what I've seen so far he is not the most mobile forward but certainly when fit he wins an awful lot in the air. He wins balls that he has no right to win, being only 5ft 10. This is why he is a handful for defenders.

It's a shame he missed that chance on Saturday but at least he got into the position to get on the end of it. It was just one of those things when he missed.

If he keeps getting in those positions you've got to fancy that he will start scoring because he's pretty lethal in the box. We need to make sure that we work on getting plenty of good crosses into the box and it should be job done.

I fancy that Ainge will flourish now he's the main striker.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:32 pm 
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I think it's fair to say we've struggled this season but the effort is there. Ainge was scoring goals in a decent team last season and hopefully an injury free run will see him successful. Gramps comments about the FC United game made me look at the highlights (I was there!) and one stand out thought was how impressive Cameron Hall was. He was a breath of fresh air....anyone seen him play regularly? And has he played since?


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:46 pm 
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don'tbuythesun wrote:
I think it's fair to say we've struggled this season but the effort is there. Ainge was scoring goals in a decent team last season and hopefully an injury free run will see him successful. Gramps comments about the FC United game made me look at the highlights (I was there!) and one stand out thought was how impressive Cameron Hall was. He was a breath of fresh air....anyone seen him play regularly? And has he played since?


We all have, It was Jordan Nicholson, was just a muck up with the team sheets. Cameron Hall is one of the youth team goalkeepers.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Nicholson is pretty much my favourite of the summer recruits.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:56 pm 
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If the pint at an otherwise reliable local went off you'd notice but you'd expect a cellar man to give you some idea why. I think the view of an ex-pro should carry some weight so with, genuine, respect to Gramps I disagree with him on this point. Not that you could liken Quakers to an otherwise reliable operation.
As for judging an argument on content surely the argument about Ainge should be based on his form, particularly goal scoring. I don't see him doing it - he's a trier but when you miss one like last week's late header I think the argument is clear. It's just not going to happen for him. Anyway, thinking about this time next year I believe we'll still be in this league but if we're to improve, with regret ... Tommy you should be fired.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:36 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
An ex professional footballer will know more than the average punter about the game and what makes a decent player.


Will they? "Average punter" is quite a problematic general statement. Most football fans are able to form good opinions having watched football for decades. And there are ex-professional players who are thick as mince. Ex-professionals have unique insight I'll grant you. But you have to look at what they're actually saying before deciding whether their opinion is worthwhile.

You've not really disagreed with my assertion though about judging an argument on merit, rather than the previous jobs of the person making it.

loan_star wrote:
Maybe when I get a minute I'll have a trawl through your posts and find some examples.


So you haven't got any examples of where I've had a dig at people saying "everyone around me agrees". Funny, because you sounded so sure earlier. I'm not denying I've ever said it, but I think it was fair to see the context.

As for swearing, well you've made the same argument to me. Makes you as much of a hypocrite as me here. But then again, attitudes change and maybe I'm a bit more relaxed about swearing now.

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:52 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
tdk1 wrote:
actually he encapsulated the whole Tommy Wright era pretty nicely.


Past tense??


I'm not particularly bothered about losing Styche but I won't be happy if we just plod along from this position and don't change the squad around a bit. Let's try to get Caton and Collins away, and if we are reaping the benefits of a full time commercial manager, let's get this into the playing side of things.

This time nearly two years ago was our first match at Blackwell Meadows, here is the team that played V Halifax 26/12/16.

Jameson, Marrs, Galbraith, Turnbull, Burgess, Brown, Thompson (sub Falkingham 70), Scott, Beck, Cartman (sub Hardy 82), Gillies (sub Syers 88)
Subs: Hunter, Bell.

Now here is the team from yesterday V Hereford

Darlington: Hemming, Trotman, O’Hanlon, Elliott, Hughes, Galbraith, Nicholson, Wheatley, Saunders, Syers, Thompson
Subs: Glover, Maddison, Henshall, Burn, Ainge.

In some ways we have better footballers now but comparing these two line ups against each other suggests to me that this present team lacks physical strength and a bit of firepower.

Well that team relied almost solely on Beck for goals, so not sure about the firepower bit.


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 Post subject: Re: This Time Last Year
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
End of the day, mentioning that it's an ex Darlo player in the sentence is simply a point of interest, what with us being Darlo fans on a Darlo board. It interested me to know that.

It is not necessarily an appeal to authority to mention that the person was an ex Darlo player, not any more than mentioning that he's a qualified coach or has worked with the 2 said players.


When you read that first post in context the implication from loan_star is clearly that the ex-Darlo player knows more about it than everyone else. Otherwise why else mention that he's an ex-Darlo player? That is an appeal to authority. If the ex-Darlo player had been Xavier Barrau for instance, well I'd wager I know more on the current Darlington squad than him.

Only when I challenged loan_star did all of a sudden this ex-Darlo player become a fully qualified coach who's worked with them. Had he said that straight away, it would have carried more weight because it's relevant expertise. Just to be clear by the way, my issue isn't with the idea someone who has coached has unique insights to inform his opinion (although it ultimately is just an opinion). My issue was with the appeal to authority in loan_star's initial post - which he quickly qualified anyway.

However I don't understand why you wouldn't mention the fact he's coached both of them in the initial post though. Surely that's more interesting and relevant to the discussion than he's an ex-Darlo player. But now I'm being hyper-critical, maybe because I'm enjoying loan_star's ultra-defensiveness a little too much. It's the need to have a subtle dig at me in every post that I enjoy so much.

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If you want to know something is it often not a good idea to seek the idea of an expert instead of asking someone down the pub?


I wouldn't disagree, but that's not the point I'm making. What I'm saying is you judge the experts on what they say and then think about it yourself. I wouldn't just blindly follow what a football coach tells me about a player, for instance. I'd think about it myself and whether I agree. The evidence to me, right now, is telling me Styche is far more effective as a striker than Ainge.

Anyone who thinks "Oh well, an ex-player says this, therefore I must change my opinion and think exactly the same" is a bit pathetic to be honest.

As for Ainge, I've not seen much from him since he's joined. I sincerely hope he does become prolific and once upon a time he was an excellent player. Sadly I worry the serious injury he suffered last year has completely knackered him as a player.

Wiseacre wrote:
I think the view of an ex-pro should carry some weight so with, genuine, respect to Gramps I disagree with him on this point.


I'm not saying it doesn't carry weight. What I'm saying is surely it's better to critically think about that opinion, before deciding whether you agree with it. I'd be quite concerned if people genuinely thought so little of themselves that they had to unquestioningly agree with something a random ex-player has said.

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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