Resignation...

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tdk1
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Re: Resignation...

Post by tdk1 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:18 pm

Oh definitely. I genuinely believe we will be worse off for his continued presence.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:19 pm

dfc4me wrote:Whatever we do is going to be a gamble with no guarantee of success. Those who crunch the numbers need to work out what relegation could cost us and then decide if it is better to stick with TW or make a change and occur some new debt, something which hopefully they are already doing.
Could get a double whammy, pay off Wright, pay new manager, give him some budget and still get relegated. This really is worst case scenario and is a possibility in play.

tdk1
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Re: Resignation...

Post by tdk1 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:22 pm

It is, and best case scenario probably won't add 300-400 to the gate so much as stabilise us and give us a base to build from.

It might be easy to move some of the midlanders on under a new manager, they might want to go and as individuals I don't think they're bad players.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:35 pm

My main worry is the apathy. We may, even with a change of manager, find that our foreseeable future is as a lower mid table side. If people aren't happy with this, and i think we have a few who still think we should be challenging for promotion because we are Darlington, then are we reaching a potential tipping point for our future? The academy may be the key to our future, but it may be a few years before we see the benefit of this. Will enough people keep the faith?

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: Resignation...

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:39 pm

MG got us in debt BUT he improved the squad and he knew what it took to progress TW is lacking in that department and has a less of a budget to work with which is not his fault
I don't think his recruitment has been bad I think his lack of tactics is thats his downfall

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Resignation...

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:57 pm

T.W’s two best signings have both been sold for profit though. This is something relatively new to us and we didn’t have on the radar when Gray was in charge. In fact Beck, Bartlett and Ferguson were sold as well.

There seems to be two problems here. T.W’s inability to get the best out of what he’s got and the fact that what he’s got should really be better.

- sort of agreeing with the above post.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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en passant
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Re: Resignation...

Post by en passant » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:54 am

I have waited until some of the dust has settled before making any comment on Friday night's disappointing result. The easy response, and the one I certainly felt coming away from the game was the despair of feeling that what was served up on the night was the best we could hope for. We didn't feel that we could win and nothing we did suggested that the weight of a backlog of cup failures could be overturned. The first half was hanging on, but had the merit of some guts being shown to keep us in the game. The announcement about the possibility of a replay seemed to jinx the second half before it had begun. Our team came out early and stood around getting cold and acting as individuals. They came out to a team hug and looked more together. Then we lost two quick goals that blew the idea that we could continue to defend as we did in the first half and the hope for another break that wouldn't hit the bar.

So that has caused the upheaval of not unexpected calls for management changes in this thread.

But, as some have said, easier said than done given the apparent state of our finances.

Having reflected on the result I have some casual thoughts that may or may not have merit, but am sure they will be fully rolled over by those already minded that this game has been a loss too far.

First thought, it was a cup game, and Darlo don't do cup games. We've had similar, and much worse results against, on paper, far inferior opposition, even when MG was tearing us up the leagues and we were very much the team to beat. We are not in such a superior position now, and were playing against a team that, on the merit of the league table, we might well expect to beat us. So we lost. Was that so unexpected - not really. So has this really changed anything from the way things stood before the game? Yes it lost us another chance at a nice little earner, but given our history, it wouldn't be wise to set too much store on raising revenue this way.

The real significance of the game was that it continues to show the fragility of our home form and that, just like the word "cup" has become toxic, the same is now true of the word "home". We seem to have got a real problem of playing with flair and freedom in front of a home audience, and the only medicine for this is getting wins. The main difference between the teams on Friday was confidence, and only results will provide this. If we ignore the result on Friday as another cup failure and get back into thinking about the minor successes of six unbeaten games in the league we still have a platform on which to build that confidence towards winning some games, which we have narrowly failed to do in the recently drawn games.

It would have been wonderful to progress in a cup this year, but can anyone say that they thought that we should have expected to get past two of the higher placed teams in our league with a side that still hasn't found its spark this year?

In the end the league is all we have left, and probably all we should have hoped for. After a fairly indifferent start there has been some steadying of the ship, and this despite the loss of the forceful presence of Reece Styche. We are in an uncomfortable position in lower mid-table and certainly need a few wins to solidify our belief that we can do better. Recent away games have produced better performances and have been within a whisker of getting us a couple more wins that would have really perked up the way we look at where we go from here. We are playing away on Saturday at a place where any right assessment would have us down for a loss. So what if we win or get another creditable draw, how would the perception of TW look then?

Although I do understand the frustrations of Friday, and the poor product on view at BM, I still think we should at least allow a bit more time to see where we are headed in the league before taking the view that the management needs to change,

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Re: Resignation...

Post by real_darlo_85 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:52 am

en passant wrote:I have waited until some of the dust has settled before making any comment on Friday night's disappointing result. The easy response, and the one I certainly felt coming away from the game was the despair of feeling that what was served up on the night was the best we could hope for. We didn't feel that we could win and nothing we did suggested that the weight of a backlog of cup failures could be overturned. The first half was hanging on, but had the merit of some guts being shown to keep us in the game. The announcement about the possibility of a replay seemed to jinx the second half before it had begun. Our team came out early and stood around getting cold and acting as individuals. They came out to a team hug and looked more together. Then we lost two quick goals that blew the idea that we could continue to defend as we did in the first half and the hope for another break that wouldn't hit the bar.

So that has caused the upheaval of not unexpected calls for management changes in this thread.

But, as some have said, easier said than done given the apparent state of our finances.

Having reflected on the result I have some casual thoughts that may or may not have merit, but am sure they will be fully rolled over by those already minded that this game has been a loss too far.

First thought, it was a cup game, and Darlo don't do cup games. We've had similar, and much worse results against, on paper, far inferior opposition, even when MG was tearing us up the leagues and we were very much the team to beat. We are not in such a superior position now, and were playing against a team that, on the merit of the league table, we might well expect to beat us. So we lost. Was that so unexpected - not really. So has this really changed anything from the way things stood before the game? Yes it lost us another chance at a nice little earner, but given our history, it wouldn't be wise to set too much store on raising revenue this way.

The real significance of the game was that it continues to show the fragility of our home form and that, just like the word "cup" has become toxic, the same is now true of the word "home". We seem to have got a real problem of playing with flair and freedom in front of a home audience, and the only medicine for this is getting wins. The main difference between the teams on Friday was confidence, and only results will provide this. If we ignore the result on Friday as another cup failure and get back into thinking about the minor successes of six unbeaten games in the league we still have a platform on which to build that confidence towards winning some games, which we have narrowly failed to do in the recently drawn games.

It would have been wonderful to progress in a cup this year, but can anyone say that they thought that we should have expected to get past two of the higher placed teams in our league with a side that still hasn't found its spark this year?

In the end the league is all we have left, and probably all we should have hoped for. After a fairly indifferent start there has been some steadying of the ship, and this despite the loss of the forceful presence of Reece Styche. We are in an uncomfortable position in lower mid-table and certainly need a few wins to solidify our belief that we can do better. Recent away games have produced better performances and have been within a whisker of getting us a couple more wins that would have really perked up the way we look at where we go from here. We are playing away on Saturday at a place where any right assessment would have us down for a loss. So what if we win or get another creditable draw, how would the perception of TW look then?

Although I do understand the frustrations of Friday, and the poor product on view at BM, I still think we should at least allow a bit more time to see where we are headed in the league before taking the view that the management needs to change,
How much more convincing do you want? Results have been consistently poor and this is the main point... with a squad HE put together, that HE said was good enough and better placed to mount a playoff challenge. Surely if it was, then although not smashing every team we play, there would at least be results by now to convince this was still plausible. Instead the performances have been mainly bereft of, well...any, other than an odd match or 20 minutes...after trailing 1-0 or 2-0. There's nothing convincing me that he has enough tactical nouse to get anything more out of the players he has brought in and spent the budget on. We now have no flexibility to change things easily, whether that's the playing staff or management because of ill-judged backing of a mediocre manager and the results to date have compounded the club's position to this point and along the way we are now having to shed players to balance the books further weakening a non-existent squad.

It's imperative that the club remains at this level and the board/DJ have stated the relegation is not something that the club can afford. We are seeing the attendances starting to wane now and it's effects on the budget, relegation would just make it worse. Unfortunately under TW this will more than likely be the reality.
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Re: Resignation...

Post by al_quaker » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:49 am

It's not purely the results. On the face of it, they haven't been particularly horrendous recently. It's the lack of what appears to be any sort of game plan.I was watching on Friday not really knowing how we were trying to score. I don't dispute Telford started as favourites - they are third in the table. But we didn't look like we had a plan to play. We bought Ainge yet very rarely get to the byline and put crosses in. We brought Saunders on and then passed it side to side so slowly we couldn't use his main strength which is his pace. We are constantly overrun in central midfield when we lose the ball - partly this stems from having 2 CBs with no pace so they have to sit deep, meaning we're constantly stretched. We've very little pace in the side at all, yet don't seem willing or capable of playing the solid, functional football that teams with no pace tend to play. It's all a bit muddled.

I liked Wright as a player, and he seems like a genuine bloke. But unfortunately at the moment as a manager it's not working out. I highly doubt we'll sack him in the short term, so lets hope something clicks soon.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:13 pm

This isn't just about the fact that we lost a cup game that, given the way things are now, we seemingly should never have expected to win because they are higher up the league than us. Nor is it just that over an extended period under TW we have won just 13 games of football out of the 46 he has been in charge. And it isn't just that at BM we have managed just 2 wins out of the last 15 nor that this season in total we have won only 4 matches out of 19.

It runs deeper than just some of the woeful stats that TW has run up. Those who watch the club home and away have very clearly lost faith and support in his ability to organise and lead the club in an effective way. Lots of the concerns about the way the playing side of things is being run have already been fairly put and what it boils down to is that TW has lost the fans (and maybe even some of the players on the evidence of what we see). The overwhelming majority of fans, who allow the club to operate, don't trust TW to run the side in an effective way and while that can be ignored in the short term, it can't be ignored in the long term.

The arguments that it took time to put right the MG damage can't be used now. His budget, his side, his tactics and his leadership. No excuses now. We now know what we can expect under TW's leadership and I don't think the club's owners in general feel he's the right man (for a whole host of reasons) to take us forward.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by Wiseacre » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:12 pm

I think part of the problem is that Tommy is a bit thick. It's rich that's he's now wondering if he's been 'too loyal' to the players. If I was one these players he's let down so badly I'd lose respect and possibly commitment - great way to get the side together. Also, what does the great lummox think he can do ? Does he have some other players he can bring in and be loyal to ? He's crap and we know he is but he must know how difficult he is to sack so the club's stuck with him so he slags off the players which is unfair and very counter productive.
Incidentally, I was intrigued to read 'Harry' saying something positive about Gray. Wright can't blame MG's 'legacy' any more either, not that he could emulate the good bits the way he's going. It's a real shame because we're stuck with him (like evo-stick) and if we go down we'll have to make the best of it. A final point, the worst thing Gray did was to take us too far too fast ?

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Resignation...

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:19 pm

The worst thing that Gray did was to engineer an overnight move to York City in a way that left us (a club short of money) without any compensation for his broken contract.

And let’s not mention the attempted coup regarding Mr Singh.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Resignation...

Post by Wiseacre » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:37 pm

I accept that Gray behaved badly and everybody says what a nice guy TW is but I think he's harming the club more than MG ever did. MG was a selfish, oafish individual who turned out winning Quakers teams - a flawed but effective football manager. I can't see him coming back yet but I wonder if the tide's turning in his favour however Wright's too far out, not waiving or drowning.
The Raj Singh business was bad and showed Gray out of his depth but maybe he's learned.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by shawry » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:47 pm

Wiseacre wrote:I accept that Gray behaved badly and everybody says what a nice guy TW is but I think he's harming the club more than MG ever did. MG was a selfish, oafish individual who turned out winning Quakers teams - a flawed but effective football manager. I can't see him coming back yet but I wonder if the tide's turning in his favour however Wright's too far out, not waiving or drowning.
The Raj Singh business was bad and showed Gray out of his depth but maybe he's learned.
Let's forget the fact that the team was in freefall since the York game last season.

Gray coming back would cost the club at least one fan, and he showed he isn't good enough at York with even more money.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by banktopp » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:42 pm

shawry wrote:
Wiseacre wrote:I accept that Gray behaved badly and everybody says what a nice guy TW is but I think he's harming the club more than MG ever did. MG was a selfish, oafish individual who turned out winning Quakers teams - a flawed but effective football manager. I can't see him coming back yet but I wonder if the tide's turning in his favour however Wright's too far out, not waiving or drowning.
The Raj Singh business was bad and showed Gray out of his depth but maybe he's learned.
Let's forget the fact that the team was in freefall since the York game last season.

Gray coming back would cost the club at least one fan, and he showed he isn't good enough at York with even more money.

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Make that two. Putting aside the way that Gray left, he had reached the limit of his managerial capabilities with us, moving to York just confirmed that.
Unfortunately it looks like Wright's limit is the Evostick.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by JE93 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:09 pm

Agree with the two above. Gray burnt his bridges when he left by ensuring he resigned so the club would be entitled to no compensation despite the deal clearly being done that he would take over as York manager.

If we can't afford to pay them off then it looks to Wright and White till the end of the season. While we aren't in a great position I don't think we'd go down this season just on the basis there will be 3 worse teams than us. As others have mentioned the real question is what effect would this have on income for the season and income over the summer when we're looking to fund our squad for next season.

Would be interesting to know who would be on the shortlist / applicants list should the job come up. Chris Hardy (Whitby) always seemed to be linked. Wonder if Atkinson and Gregan would fancy their shot at the job. They seemed a popular choice when Gray first stepped aside. You could probably add to that list a couple of the managers who have formerly managed at around this level with other local clubs. Ian Bogie, Gary Mills.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by quakerste » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:26 pm

For me it would be Mark Bower from Bradford Park Avenue, can work with a budget and organizes his team's well and hard to beat..

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Re: Resignation...

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:36 pm

quakerste wrote:For me it would be Mark Bower from Bradford Park Avenue, can work with a budget and organizes his team's well and hard to beat..
Bower would be perfect.

But there's more chance of me becoming manager than of him leaving promotion chasers for a potential relegation scrap.

And that's before we even discuss finances.
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Re: Resignation...

Post by Feethams 1966 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:38 pm

In my dreams it would be Brian Little.

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loan_star
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Re: Resignation...

Post by loan_star » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:43 pm

quakerste wrote:For me it would be Mark Bower from Bradford Park Avenue, can work with a budget and organizes his team's well and hard to beat..
Would he want to leave there for a club in our position?
If Wright did leave I could see them going back for McGurk again as he was first choice last time and apparently only turned it down as the timing was wrong.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:48 pm

For me it would be a big gamble going for someone who has never managed a club, especially as we are facing a potential relegation fight.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by Beano » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:42 pm

LoidLucan wrote:For me it would be a big gamble going for someone who has never managed a club, especially as we are facing a potential relegation fight.
I’m genuinely not sure how much difference experience makes at this level as we couldn’t attract an all-conquering non-league manager and neither is one available, other than Martin Gray.

If we were to change, we need someone with a much clearer vision and philosophy. The ability to deliver said vision and philosophy is the gamble.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:51 pm

Wiseacre wrote:I accept that Gray behaved badly and everybody says what a nice guy TW is but I think he's harming the club more than MG ever did. MG was a selfish, oafish individual who turned out winning Quakers teams - a flawed but effective football manager. I can't see him coming back yet but I wonder if the tide's turning in his favour however Wright's too far out, not waiving or drowning.
The Raj Singh business was bad and showed Gray out of his depth but maybe he's learned.
Thanks Mrs Gray.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:59 pm

Chris Hardy is the obvious realistic target. He manages just below our level, saved Whitby from relegation when he first went there and has done a sound job in what is a football outpost that finds it difficult in recruiting players. He's a solid, experienced Teesside-based manager with an organised, methodical approach, good at man management and used to working on a limited budget. There are no guarantees but I think he would be much less of a gamble than someone like McGurk. If the job becomes vacant, I'm sure Brian Atkinson would be in the frame.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:12 pm

I don’t think Brian Atkinson would be up to it and besides that if his boss Gray were to get another managers job then we would be back in to the conflict of interests thing again, and besides that - he would eat all the pies.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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loan_star
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Re: Resignation...

Post by loan_star » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:44 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:he would eat all the pies.
Got to say the new pies are excellent, hopefully they'll make them available outside the clubhouse too.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by shildonlad » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:14 pm

There really is a limited choice for managers in the north east (north of york). However i think this compulsory promotion will change that over time and produce a local crop of managers with at least evostick premier experience.


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Re: Resignation...

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:36 am

A name to keep on the radar for the future may be our former player (sorry!) Chris Moore, the manager of Consett. He's a UEFA A badge coach, head of Durham Uni football and does coaching work for Sunderland. Relatively inexperienced in management but plays the game the right way. Could be a prospect for the future.
Also looking down the pyramid, Nick Gray has done a fantastic job at Morpeth... have a look at the league table. Also a UEFA A coach and has improved them every year he has been in charge.

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Re: Resignation...

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 am

LoidLucan wrote:Chris Hardy is the obvious realistic target. He manages just below our level, saved Whitby from relegation when he first went there and has done a sound job in what is a football outpost that finds it difficult in recruiting players. He's a solid, experienced Teesside-based manager with an organised, methodical approach, good at man management and used to working on a limited budget. There are no guarantees but I think he would be much less of a gamble than someone like McGurk. If the job becomes vacant, I'm sure Brian Atkinson would be in the frame.
Hardy didn't want the job last time.

Atkinson might be a good shout.
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Re: Resignation...

Post by Wiseacre » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:23 am

Reading the feedback from Les Mcj and others I can see I've gone too far so sorry for that - and to TW if he sees it. It was frustration and some deeper unease about TW, his record really undermines the reasonable things he says and I think it's a bad idea to start criticising a group of players who are obviously struggling. More upheaval at the club won't help so maybe he should stay - I change my mind every week and a good result at Chester would no doubt make a difference. I was surprised to see Brian Little's name appear as a possible replacement. I think his last job was at Gainsborough so he has experience at this level - is this plausible ?
My antipathy to Alan White is probably a bit unreasonable as well but I remember him clattering a Brentford player badly and related rough stuff which put me off him a bit.

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