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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:48 am 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:
A couple of points to build on previous posts.
1. Gramps says that People now have a ready made excuse as to why TW should stay. I'll also add that it certainly won't help our profile if we were to look for a replacement. Who would want to come here as manager at the moment?


Plenty of people. You always get out of work managers etc applying, regardless of the circumstance. Whether these are the right candidates is a different matter
but the idea no one at all would want the job is incorrect.

TW's performance needs to be judged on how we perform on the pitch. I still expect to see effective tactical plans, coherent strategy, sensible formations which fit our squad, and motivated players. The departures of people who are largely fringe players (with the exception of Styche - O'Hanlon is technically still with us), doesn't change that.

So if we judge that Wright isn't achieving this, complaining about departures isn't an excuse. I still expect to see commitment, effort and some level of tactical coherence.

Nor should he be kept by default, which is in essence what you're arguing ("no one wants it, so you have to keep Wright" is a bad argument). We judge Wright on his merits for the job and whether he can take us forward.


Gramps, I'm agreeing with you on this point and adding to it. Why are you saying I'm arguing it?
Are you? Didn't read that way to me.

From point 1, you say the budget cuts won't help us if we were to look for a new manager and question whether anyone would want to come here. I disagree on that point.

The implication I took from that was you were saying it's harder to get rid of Wright because we're a less attractive proposition to other managers.

If that's not the case then fair enough, but that is how it came across to me. However it is an argument others are using.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:15 am 
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Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.

Keep the faith.

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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:19 pm 
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AndyPark wrote:
Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.


Keep the faith.


This is the saving grace of our current scenario.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:03 am 
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Beano wrote:
AndyPark wrote:
Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.


Keep the faith.


This is the saving grace of our current scenario.


It's a master stroke if we manage to stay up, but not good if we don't. Having said that I am confident that we will avoid the drop.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:39 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
Beano wrote:
AndyPark wrote:
Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.


Keep the faith.


This is the saving grace of our current scenario.


It's a master stroke if we manage to stay up, but not good if we don't. Having said that I am confident that we will avoid the drop.


It’s not a “master stroke” if we stay up.

We’ve got the capability for mid table surely....

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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:03 am 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Beano wrote:
AndyPark wrote:
Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.


Keep the faith.


This is the saving grace of our current scenario.


It's a master stroke if we manage to stay up, but not good if we don't. Having said that I am confident that we will avoid the drop.


It’s not a “master stroke” if we stay up.

We’ve got the capability for mid table surely....


Yes I agree, but given the loss of our best players due to budget cuts, I think safety would be a decent result. The problems will be worse next season, as I think it'll be hard to get fans to boost the budget to anywhere near this seasons level, so giving us a poor budget next season. Hopefully the club will attract a big beneficiary, but failing that I can only see a struggle for the next couple of seasons and that goes for whoever is in charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:13 am 
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I still think we will stay up, but recognise that we're in a battle now. If we win on Saturday, the table doesn't look that bad, but it's the reality of the squad and how we've been playing... it's just not good enough. We absolutely must stay up, i could not see us bouncing back.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:32 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Beano wrote:
AndyPark wrote:
Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.


Keep the faith.


This is the saving grace of our current scenario.


It's a master stroke if we manage to stay up, but not good if we don't. Having said that I am confident that we will avoid the drop.


It’s not a “master stroke” if we stay up.

We’ve got the capability for mid table surely....


Yes I agree, but given the loss of our best players due to budget cuts, I think safety would be a decent result. The problems will be worse next season, as I think it'll be hard to get fans to boost the budget to anywhere near this seasons level, so giving us a poor budget next season. Hopefully the club will attract a big beneficiary, but failing that I can only see a struggle for the next couple of seasons and that goes for whoever is in charge.

I shall be contributing to next seasons BTB, but can see it will be a big turn off for some if TW is still in charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:43 am 
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I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:47 am 
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I am with Banktopp, I will be contributing to next years boost the budget as well, as a fan owned club if we don't provide that support we can only go one way I suppose. Hope there is a few more of us :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:57 am 
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I couldn't agree less regarding saving us from relegation being a 'masterstroke' as we should be nowhere based on our squad, budget and attendances.

I can't fathom how we're in such a financial pickle and would like to know why if I am to continue investing in funds such as BtB. My own personal wealth is limited, and I have to make sacrifices to contribute, so I need to know that my money is a worthwhile contribution and isn't going into the abyss.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:13 pm 
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AndyPark wrote:
Although I am not particularly happy with some of our better players having to depart, I am very happy with how proactive DJ is being. He’s realised we are going to be losing money due to lower crowds etc & has identified a structure to fill that hole, so to speak.
Least we are paying our bills on time and aren’t going to be relying on fans to raise x amount in January or whatever.

Keep the faith.


So lots of scenarios could occur but could it be that Johnston has perhaps made a bad decision here, without giving other choices (if selling Styche & Syers results in relegation).

Yes I understand the money situation and it's not a simple choice of those players should just stay and all will be ok, however what if we decided to run a budget deficit this year but kept those players who alongside a new manager or even TW kept us up.

What I am saying depending on how we do in the league and finances after that could confirm if DJ actions are the best option. Maybe we kept said players and looked to run a deficit.

Or are people happy with cut whatever as long as we are revenue/costs neutral even if it means relegation?

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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:29 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?

Yep my concern too - even taking out the 500 club members, we still effectively have average crowds ~ 1000, which would still be middling crowds for this level. How then can we only seemingly afford about 12 senior players? Regardless of the performance of Wright, unless he's gone crazy with wages (has he?) we should surely be able to afford an actual squad of players. What then is happening back stage that means that we cannot compete at this level, even on crowds of 1000 + BtB? Is it purely the legacy debt, or is it other things? Was our commercial performance that much worse than other clubs? Is the BM deal absolutely terrible?

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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:43 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?

I might be incorrect but I thought the 500 club paid in advance for a five year season ticket. This means that on a gate of 1300 there will only be 800 paying customers. In which case we are not getting some of the higher crowds in the division and BtB is essential.
Without the 500 club we would not be having this conversation as we would have gone bust for the final time. Does it run out the end of next season, Without the extensions ? Need to survive in this division till then when there should be a pre season boost to finances with season ticket holders renewing.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:57 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
H1987 wrote:
I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?


Quote:
Is the BM deal absolutely terrible?


Yes


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:24 pm 
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banktopp wrote:
H1987 wrote:
I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?

I might be incorrect but I thought the 500 club paid in advance for a five year season ticket. This means that on a gate of 1300 there will only be 800 paying customers. In which case we are not getting some of the higher crowds in the division and BtB is essential.
Without the 500 club we would not be having this conversation as we would have gone bust for the final time. Does it run out the end of next season, Without the extensions ? Need to survive in this division till then when there should be a pre season boost to finances with season ticket holders renewing.


Not all 500 club memberships were sold, I think the final total was below 400, but can't remember the exact figure. I'm sure somebody will confirm the exact figure.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
banktopp wrote:
H1987 wrote:
I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?

I might be incorrect but I thought the 500 club paid in advance for a five year season ticket. This means that on a gate of 1300 there will only be 800 paying customers. In which case we are not getting some of the higher crowds in the division and BtB is essential.
Without the 500 club we would not be having this conversation as we would have gone bust for the final time. Does it run out the end of next season, Without the extensions ? Need to survive in this division till then when there should be a pre season boost to finances with season ticket holders renewing.


Not all 500 club memberships were sold, I think the final total was below 400, but can't remember the exact figure. I'm sure somebody will confirm the exact figure.


We're still averaging around 1,400 a game aren't we? So that's still 1,000 paying customers through the gates, charging... not a cheap amount at this level.

Are the club taking a calculated gamble to get through this season, paying off a big chunk so we can invest in infrastructure in the future? It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. We have by far the smallest squad in the division, i am pretty certain. How can that be so? Teams in this division, and indeed below, have more people on the books. (the other options are the BM deal is so horribly awful we make a loss on a match day - i'm not sure this will be the case, surely - or that there's a few players being paid a bit too much...)


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:11 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
I'm curious about 'boost the budget'.... it was sold to make us more competitive and push up the league, no? Well, if we've done that, and we've the smallest squad in the division...

Either some of our players are being paid far too much, or this club will cease to be able to compete at this level because we could not afford a squad. It makes me wonder just how this can be the case, given we still get some of the higher crowds in the division. I know we have this 500 club and debt which needs to be cleared... had these two really gotten so bad though? It seems that way.

Are we trying to cut an extreme amount of debt all in one season, and that is why we have such a threadbare squad? If so, we're not really boosting the budget at all, we're clearing the debt?



Good post.

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Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
We're still averaging around 1,400 a game aren't we? So that's still 1,000 paying customers through the gates, charging... not a cheap amount at this level.

Are the club taking a calculated gamble to get through this season, paying off a big chunk so we can invest in infrastructure in the future? It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. We have by far the smallest squad in the division, i am pretty certain. How can that be so? Teams in this division, and indeed below, have more people on the books. (the other options are the BM deal is so horribly awful we make a loss on a match day - i'm not sure this will be the case, surely - or that there's a few players being paid a bit too much...)


I can only think its due to DJ's expressed desire to have the club debt free at the end of this season in order to make us a better proposition for lenders who are needed to fund the 4G pitch and clubhouse.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:24 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
I still think we will stay up, but recognise that we're in a battle now. If we win on Saturday, the table doesn't look that bad, but it's the reality of the squad and how we've been playing... it's just not good enough. We absolutely must stay up, i could not see us bouncing back.


I don’t.

We are in big trouble.

Last season we turned it around with a centre-forward in red hot form, Syers in support, a man-mountain at centre half and a goalkeeper playing below his level. We have none of those now.

I can’t see where the next goal is coming from, let alone the next win.

We have 13 senior players, with one heavily rumoured to be on the way to Kidderminster. We’re on about boosting the squad with kids on loan.

We have 4 wins this season, 2 came against teams reduced to 9.

We’re ridiculously over-reliant on the opposition getting a man or two sent off to give us a chance. TW’s win ratio against sides that actually keep 11 on the pitch is just 21%.

I can’t see past relegation, I really can’t. The only way I see us staying up is a resignation and restructure, and I like TW & AW. It’s a massive shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Me neither. Last season we brought in some quality players to stay up. If you compare us to teams like Gainsborough and Tamworth last year who went down , I don't even think we're up to their standard. We need around 7 wins and a few draws. Our last 2 games have seen performances so poor that a Northern League team would have held their own against us. At least Ashton are losing. They always say name 3 worse teams. Nuneaton, Ashton, and I can't name a 3rd one.


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 Post subject: Re: Dave Syers gone
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
Me neither. Last season we brought in some quality players to stay up. If you compare us to teams like Gainsborough and Tamworth last year who went down , I don't even think we're up to their standard. We need around 7 wins and a few draws. Our last 2 games have seen performances so poor that a Northern League team would have held their own against us. At least Ashton are losing. They always say name 3 worse teams. Nuneaton, Ashton, and I can't name a 3rd one.



Us :thumbdown:

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