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 Post subject: Sports Village (latest)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:50 pm 
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https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... ref=twtrec

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:56 pm 
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The first of many stumbling would be the talk of artificial pitches,in the long term that is!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Sounds increasingly like what Houghton and Sotnick wanted to do at the Arena all those years ago!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:12 pm 
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Nothing new in the article.

I just don't see us getting what we want from this sporting village, hopefully I am wrong but I can see it being another of those options and we all dislike the outcome over the years.

Worst case scenario is using the arena on an artificial surface that we don't own and can't change.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:39 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
I just don't see us getting what we want from this sporting village, hopefully I am wrong but I can see it being another of those options and we all dislike the outcome over the years.


Yep agreed - do we even have any leverage? Other than the potential benefits that a football league side would bring to Darlington as a town, but we are a long way from that and would need almost ideal conditions to enable us to get that far under our current ownership model.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:49 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
I just don't see us getting what we want from this sporting village, hopefully I am wrong but I can see it being another of those options and we all dislike the outcome over the years.


Yep agreed - do we even have any leverage? Other than the potential benefits that a football league side would bring to Darlington as a town, but we are a long way from that and would need almost ideal conditions to enable us to get that far under our current ownership model.


Yep we are a junior partner with no assets and no cash, all we have is debts not exactly the best partner for this kind of investment.

What we really need is the Council/Developer to give us something so crazy that the town would be on the councils back after we wasted the cheap land last time (the arena).

We are struggling with any leverage whatsoever, being the biggest sports club in the town is not the winner as in all seriousness, fan wise we are probably not that much bigger than Mowden these days when you think we probably were 30 times as big once.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:02 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:

We are struggling with any leverage whatsoever, being the biggest sports club in the town is not the winner as in all seriousness, fan wise we are probably not that much bigger than Mowden these days when you think we probably were 30 times as big once.

:cry: you're probably right. Fair play to Mowden, but it shows how far the football club has fallen. And if we carry on turning into a club bumbling between the evostik and the conference north, playing in a glorified field, it won't be long before Mowden Park are far bigger than we are.

Reading the latest netcafe - if we are to be involved in the SV it looks like we will be faced with a choice of the Arena with a plastic pitch (no thanks - I'd stop going personally) or £5m to build our own stadium on the site (if I'm being kind we have very little chance of raising that type of cash..). So BM it is then, with all of its major faults as a football ground and the other limitations of that being our 'home'

The future looks bright...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm 
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In the cold light of day the two rugby clubs and the football club should share its resources and risk and be all under one roof - thats the only way all of them will survive. None of them are big enough to go on their own.
What really annoys me is if the council allow this and yet it allowed the football club to be killed.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:31 pm 
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Clearly these proposals have been developed by the rugby club and the council for their mutual benefit. If we wanted to be involved then it would simply be as a customer using one of the facilities - in effect the arena as a tenant - paying rent and with little or no oportunity to develop our own income streams. So the choice we might face is stay at BM with its well known problems and limited scope/cost of further development
, or....play for the foreseeable future in the arena, possibly on an artificial pitch.

A choice between hanging and the firing squad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:41 pm 
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DMPRC in league with DBC have resurrected previous plans, which at the time were said to be unrealistic, un sustainable, and not something the tax payers of Darlington needed or wanted. Odd how things have changed.

There is no real benefit as I can see in having any kind of alliance with this proposal.

I simply view this as a "supported village" rather than a sporting village with the local council tax payers being the main contributors regardless of any alliance.

Another case of "by the few for the few ...paid for by the many"


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:28 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
Reading the latest netcafe - if we are to be involved in the SV it looks like we will be faced with a choice of the Arena with a plastic pitch (no thanks - I'd stop going personally) or £5m to build our own stadium on the sit


I'd stop going too. Ugh :thumbdown:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:40 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
I just don't see us getting what we want from this sporting village, hopefully I am wrong but I can see it being another of those options and we all dislike the outcome over the years.


Yep agreed - do we even have any leverage? Other than the potential benefits that a football league side would bring to Darlington as a town, but we are a long way from that and would need almost ideal conditions to enable us to get that far under our current ownership model.


Yep we are a junior partner with no assets and no cash, all we have is debts not exactly the best partner for this kind of investment.

What we really need is the Council/Developer to give us something so crazy that the town would be on the councils back after we wasted the cheap land last time (the arena).

We are struggling with any leverage whatsoever, being the biggest sports club in the town is not the winner as in all seriousness, fan wise we are probably not that much bigger than Mowden these days when you think we probably were 30 times as big once.


I agree with what you are saying, ''Fan wise'' you are probably about right , however the potential ''Fan wise'' if, yea I know ''if'' we did manage to progress in the leagues we would outstrip any other sports club in the town, and lets face it, in this neck of the woods its only football teams that can bring any kind of town advertising, probably not the best way to describe it but you know what I mean :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:20 pm 
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“Significant risk”? Sounds ominous!
Like others, I can not see any advantage to DFC moving there unless there were huge income streams possible, otherwise just another landlord we’re subsidising directly through fans’ contributions.
It seems more than likely the council will try to fund this through the sale of Blackwell Meadows so whether we have any security of tenancy with or without DRFC is anyone’s guess


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:38 pm 
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What a shame the euromillions winner wasn't s Darlington fan....£115 m!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:37 pm 
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poppyfield wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
I just don't see us getting what we want from this sporting village, hopefully I am wrong but I can see it being another of those options and we all dislike the outcome over the years.


Yep agreed - do we even have any leverage? Other than the potential benefits that a football league side would bring to Darlington as a town, but we are a long way from that and would need almost ideal conditions to enable us to get that far under our current ownership model.


Yep we are a junior partner with no assets and no cash, all we have is debts not exactly the best partner for this kind of investment.

What we really need is the Council/Developer to give us something so crazy that the town would be on the councils back after we wasted the cheap land last time (the arena).

We are struggling with any leverage whatsoever, being the biggest sports club in the town is not the winner as in all seriousness, fan wise we are probably not that much bigger than Mowden these days when you think we probably were 30 times as big once.


I agree with what you are saying, ''Fan wise'' you are probably about right , however the potential ''Fan wise'' if, yea I know ''if'' we did manage to progress in the leagues we would outstrip any other sports club in the town, and lets face it, in this neck of the woods its only football teams that can bring any kind of town advertising, probably not the best way to describe it but you know what I mean :)


I know what you mean but I don't think anyone who would make these decisions would chance cash on the chance "we might make it to the league and be a good town advertisement".

We need something for nothing and sadly I can't see the council being in a position to give us what we want, even if they wanted to. At that point we need something from the developer but it sounds like they will be keeping the Arena afloat.

Hopefully I am wrong but we are junior partners in this, so our priorities will not be a priority for anyone else sadly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:46 pm 
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I’m sure DFC board will put the options out there soon with their recommendation then I’d imagine it will be for the DFCSG to do the same to the SG members which at present I believe is around 700 who will vote on either option.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:52 pm 
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The whole thing sounds like a disaster zone for us.

However, I’ve no issue with a plastic pitch whatsoever, especially if it helps with income. We won’t be troubling the football league in the next ten years without a Euromillions winner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:49 pm 
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What about an option where we are allocated let’s say a training pitch within the Sports Village but with the potential to develop it into our own stadium over as many years as it takes, even if that was 5-10 years say.
We at some point when our break clause kicks in at BM can surely unpick our only assets, ie tin shed, stand etc and move them.
Yes, it may mean playing at arena on plastic in the meantime, but surely would be worth it if slowly but surely we can see our own ground developing in the distance. Can’t for the life of me see us being anywhere near the football league until we have our own sustainable ground so playing on plastic in meantime would not cause an issue.
May take many many years of funding but who knows once we all saw it being developed and maybe qualify again for grant support in years to come.
Probably a non starter, but if that was a third option along with BM or Arena etc I would go for it.
Pie on the sky quite probably!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:59 pm 
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DBC have no interest in our club whatsoever, so not expecting any crumbs from this 'plan', Both rugby clubs are both bumping along just in the financial doldrums. Almost better they go bust & if we had any cash / income, we buy BM off the Administrators. Bit of a turn around, but in the meantime we have to soldier on in Vanarama North on our shoestring budget preferably staying in the black. I will continue to buy Euromillions tickets on rollovers and 50/50 on match days. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:06 pm 
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What is the point in spunking millions on Blackwell meadows for a two sided ground we won’t own, or spunking even more millions on a new ground which would still be objected to by half the fan base for “not being Feethams” when there is a perfectly adequate stadium we can rent on the edge of town? Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat, meaning we wouldn’t have to spend the playing budget on stadium upgrades and as fans we may have a decent view of the pitch. All of this bollocks about fan boycotts is just that, as I know of people who would go more regularly if they had a seat and some shelter. Yes the stadium is soulless and dull, but so is Blackwell and so was Bishop Auckland. A decent team performing well will improve the atmosphere more than having a shite team plodding along in the bottom half of the glue league, which is where we will end up if we focus on putting money into Blackwell / fantasy new stadium.

We are never going to be able to buy land and build a stadium, and if a rich benefactor was going to fund us they would have done it by now, so let’s look at the next sensible option which dramatically reduces the amount we need to spend on infrastructure. No ground we own will generate enough off the pitch income to offset the cost of developing it anyway so let’s stop pretending it’s going to happen and dial A.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:17 pm 
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MB86DFC wrote:
Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat

Primacy of tenure has been raised in relation to the arena on a number of occasions as a problem

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:19 pm 
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jjljks wrote:
DBC have no interest in our club whatsoever, so not expecting any crumbs from this 'plan', Both rugby clubs are both bumping along just in the financial doldrums. Almost better they go bust & if we had any cash / income, we buy BM off the Administrators. Bit of a turn around, but in the meantime we have to soldier on in Vanarama North on our shoestring budget preferably staying in the black. I will continue to buy Euromillions tickets on rollovers and 50/50 on match days. :thumbup:

Where does the idea MP are struggling come from?

Their most recent accounts appear toshow MP club have massively improved their financial position on the previous years accounts.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history



Secondly if DFC need director to provide a personal guarantee to get a bank overdraft or a shirt deal, then where is money going to come from to buy the Arena (if MP went into administration)? It's very unlikely any reputable lender would touch DFC unless it's finances drastically improve.

It's nice thinking, but in reality it isn't going to happen in near future

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:21 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
MB86DFC wrote:
Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat

Primacy of tenure has been raised in relation to the arena on a number of occasions as a problem


Many larger football clubs share grounds with larger rugby clubs, this could be overcome in negotiation


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:45 pm 
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MB86DFC wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
MB86DFC wrote:
Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat

Primacy of tenure has been raised in relation to the arena on a number of occasions as a problem


Many larger football clubs share grounds with larger rugby clubs, this could be overcome in negotiation

I’m sure it could - but if it’s an issue even after DJ has been discussing re the sports village, it implies, to me at least, that Mowden wouldn’t have us as tenants “in a heart beat”

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:02 pm 
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spen666 wrote:
jjljks wrote:
DBC have no interest in our club whatsoever, so not expecting any crumbs from this 'plan', Both rugby clubs are both bumping along just in the financial doldrums. Almost better they go bust & if we had any cash / income, we buy BM off the Administrators. Bit of a turn around, but in the meantime we have to soldier on in Vanarama North on our shoestring budget preferably staying in the black. I will continue to buy Euromillions tickets on rollovers and 50/50 on match days. :thumbup:

Where does the idea MP are struggling come from?

Their most recent accounts appear toshow MP club have massively improved their financial position on the previous years accounts.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history



Secondly if DFC need director to provide a personal guarantee to get a bank overdraft or a shirt deal, then where is money going to come from to buy the Arena (if MP went into administration)? It's very unlikely any reputable lender would touch DFC unless it's finances drastically improve.

It's nice thinking, but in reality it isn't going to happen in near future


Should not look just at one set of accounts, 2014 for example shows an operating loss. Also factor in their depreciating assets and future cost to maintain the stadium, ensuring H&S certificate and engineering work to redevelop the Arena. Granted we would not have the money to buy Arena (nor future income to make it viable), so only BM would be a realistic purchase at a very knockdown price if DRFC went into receivership (more probable than Mowden Park). This would be where the Council planners could do us a favour by designating BM as green belt not for housing. To be fair, the Environment Agency flood risk map show the area as High Risk so not really suitable for housing anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:07 pm 
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MP had to borrow £800K from Raj Singh mortgaged against the Arena a couple of years back, this has now been repaid by a larger private investment loan guaranteed by Darlington Borough Council at some point last year. That isn’t the action of a company flush with liquid assets.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:42 pm 
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divas wrote:
MP had to borrow £800K from Raj Singh mortgaged against the Arena a couple of years back, this has now been repaid by a larger private investment loan guaranteed by Darlington Borough Council at some point last year. That isn’t the action of a company flush with liquid assets.


Jesus.

This smells rotten.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:24 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:39 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:15 am 
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You can tell very little from small company accounts.
It's just a balance sheet.

The previous year's accounts illuminate the situation a little better:
Their main current asset was £1.2m in debtors. Who on earth would owe them £1.2m you may ask??

The answer lies in viewing the accounts of DARLINGTON ARENA LIMITED, DMP ARENA TRADING LIMITED and DARLINGTON MOWDEN PARK RUGBY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED side by side. Still not particularly illuminating but plenty of scope for smoke and mirrors.

Oh, and MOWDEN PARK VILLAGE LIMITED has been set up in waiting for something or other.


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