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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:56 am 
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MB86DFC wrote:
What is the point in spunking millions on Blackwell meadows for a two sided ground we won’t own, or spunking even more millions on a new ground which would still be objected to by half the fan base for “not being Feethams” when there is a perfectly adequate stadium we can rent on the edge of town? Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat, meaning we wouldn’t have to spend the playing budget on stadium upgrades and as fans we may have a decent view of the pitch. All of this bollocks about fan boycotts is just that, as I know of people who would go more regularly if they had a seat and some shelter. Yes the stadium is soulless and dull, but so is Blackwell and so was Bishop Auckland. A decent team performing well will improve the atmosphere more than having a shite team plodding along in the bottom half of the glue league, which is where we will end up if we focus on putting money into Blackwell / fantasy new stadium.

We are never going to be able to buy land and build a stadium, and if a rich benefactor was going to fund us they would have done it by now, so let’s look at the next sensible option which dramatically reduces the amount we need to spend on infrastructure. No ground we own will generate enough off the pitch income to offset the cost of developing it anyway so let’s stop pretending it’s going to happen and dial A.

There are over 100 seats available for pay as you go. People on Boxing Day were impressed with the view so could be worth mentioning to these people you know.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:19 am 
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MB86DFC wrote:
What is the point in spunking millions on Blackwell meadows for a two sided ground we won’t own, or spunking even more millions on a new ground which would still be objected to by half the fan base for “not being Feethams” when there is a perfectly adequate stadium we can rent on the edge of town? Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat, meaning we wouldn’t have to spend the playing budget on stadium upgrades and as fans we may have a decent view of the pitch. All of this bollocks about fan boycotts is just that, as I know of people who would go more regularly if they had a seat and some shelter. Yes the stadium is soulless and dull, but so is Blackwell and so was Bishop Auckland. A decent team performing well will improve the atmosphere more than having a shite team plodding along in the bottom half of the glue league, which is where we will end up if we focus on putting money into Blackwell / fantasy new stadium.

We are never going to be able to buy land and build a stadium, and if a rich benefactor was going to fund us they would have done it by now, so let’s look at the next sensible option which dramatically reduces the amount we need to spend on infrastructure. No ground we own will generate enough off the pitch income to offset the cost of developing it anyway so let’s stop pretending it’s going to happen and dial A.


Agreed. I'd also add that the retiscience about artificial pitches is also misplaced based on a false romanticism about turf. I recollect the dying worms at Feethams and the serious cashflow problems caused by cancelled games at HP. The new pitches are definitely on trend and serious earners if managed properly. I fully expect these to be in use lower league football at some stage.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:26 am 
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As much as I’d rather have a utopian world Feethams 2 solution, the only project the council will back is the Arena as it is already built.

We will end up back there sooner or later.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:44 am 
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princes town wrote:
MB86DFC wrote:
What is the point in spunking millions on Blackwell meadows for a two sided ground we won’t own, or spunking even more millions on a new ground which would still be objected to by half the fan base for “not being Feethams” when there is a perfectly adequate stadium we can rent on the edge of town? Mowden would have us as tenants in a heart beat, meaning we wouldn’t have to spend the playing budget on stadium upgrades and as fans we may have a decent view of the pitch. All of this bollocks about fan boycotts is just that, as I know of people who would go more regularly if they had a seat and some shelter. Yes the stadium is soulless and dull, but so is Blackwell and so was Bishop Auckland. A decent team performing well will improve the atmosphere more than having a shite team plodding along in the bottom half of the glue league, which is where we will end up if we focus on putting money into Blackwell / fantasy new stadium.

We are never going to be able to buy land and build a stadium, and if a rich benefactor was going to fund us they would have done it by now, so let’s look at the next sensible option which dramatically reduces the amount we need to spend on infrastructure. No ground we own will generate enough off the pitch income to offset the cost of developing it anyway so let’s stop pretending it’s going to happen and dial A.


Agreed. I'd also add that the retiscience about artificial pitches is also misplaced based on a false romanticism about turf. I recollect the dying worms at Feethams and the serious cashflow problems caused by cancelled games at HP. The new pitches are definitely on trend and serious earners if managed properly. I fully expect these to be in use lower league football at some stage.


There have been numerous threads on here about artificial pitches and I think you'll find that they are unpopular.

I remember one thread in particular where I counted up the who was in favour of them and who wasn't, and it worked out that about a third of the posters on here (who expressed a preference) were against artificial pitches.

And that's people coming on here - when I look around the fans at Blackwell Meadows I can't help but notice that quite a lot of people are knocking on a bit (myself included) and might not enjoy watching football on a plastic pitch.

We have a shortage of fans as it is, we must not alienate any of them, remember - most people go to matches because they enjoy them, not because of an overriding sense of duty.

The club must be vary wary of going down this route.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:07 am 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
...


There have been numerous threads on here about artificial pitches and I think you'll find that they are unpopular.

I remember one thread in particular where I counted up the who was in favour of them and who wasn't, and it worked out that about a third of the posters on here (who expressed a preference) were against artificial pitches.

And that's people coming on here - when I look around the fans at Blackwell Meadows I can't help but notice that quite a lot of people are knocking on a bit (myself included) and might not enjoy watching football on a plastic pitch.

We have a shortage of fans as it is, we must not alienate any of them, remember - most people go to matches because they enjoy them, not because of an overriding sense of duty.

The club must be vary wary of going down this route.



The whole 3G pitch thread is an interesting debate.

I was at the infamous 5-5 draw between QPR & Newcastle back in the mid 1980s. I also saw games at Luton & Oldham on their plastic pitches. The truth is the surfaces were not particularly good. The bounce was awful and unrealistic. I had pleasure of having a kick around on the Luton pitch in 1986. It was nothing like realistic, even with tons of sand on the pitch the bounce of the ball was like playing on concrete. It was a good thing these pitches were eventually banned.

The latest 3G pitches are very different. Down here in East London / Essex at least 4 non league clubs I visit regularly have them Harlow Town, Bowers & Pitsea, Aveley and Haringey Borough. The football on these pitches is of a good standard. At Harlow, 3 different teams play home games on it. Even those in the Essex Senior League (Step 5) can produce fast free flowing football, knowing the ball will run smooothly and won't suffer from bobbling caused by unevenness in the pitch.

Sadly, in the North East, the only 3G pitch I have watched football on (Consett) does not seem for some reason to be up to the standard of those down here. I am not sure why that it.

I am a big fan of the football on 3G pitches now. I suspect many of those opposing football on 3G pitches are either basing it on the fact its not grass or on memories of watching those games on pitches back in the 1980s that are a milion miles away from today's pitches.

3G pitches can be used for International games, UEFA games, FA Cup and non league levels...at present the Football League (& Premier League) are out of step with the rest of the football world.

For a club like Darlington, the extra revenue that may be possible from such a pitch is huge. Not only the hire costs, but increased bar takings etc. Its of no surprise to me that some the smaller clubs "punching above their weight" in the Conference National (eg Bromley, Sutton & Harrogate) are thriving despite relatively low gates because of the extra revenue from the 3G pitch.

The Original Fat Cat rightly cautions about alienating fans ...however, the fact that fans can have more confidence that games will be on in winter is likely to encourage fans to come on days when they may not have bothered for fear games may be off

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:45 am 
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Yes to 4G pitches, no to the Arena. s*** stadium, s*** location. Never, never, never again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 am 
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H1987 wrote:
Yes to 4G pitches, no to the Arena. s*** stadium, s*** location. Never, never, never again.


Am I the only one to see the conversion of a normal pitch into a 4G pitch idea as a complete waste of time and money?

Are we eligible for a grant to fund the whole or part of the cost of the 4G pitch (as Eastbourne sports complex was)? If not I can't see how the outlay of around £350k to £500k can ever be repaid by hiring it out / lower ground maintenance costs / the odd match not being postponed. Most 4g pitches in the town do not have a long waiting list of people wanting to use them and even at 75% utilisation it would take years to pay back.

The only way I could see it working is if it was free to install due to grants etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:52 am 
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spen666 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
...


There have been numerous threads on here about artificial pitches and I think you'll find that they are unpopular.

I remember one thread in particular where I counted up the who was in favour of them and who wasn't, and it worked out that about a third of the posters on here (who expressed a preference) were against artificial pitches.

And that's people coming on here - when I look around the fans at Blackwell Meadows I can't help but notice that quite a lot of people are knocking on a bit (myself included) and might not enjoy watching football on a plastic pitch.

We have a shortage of fans as it is, we must not alienate any of them, remember - most people go to matches because they enjoy them, not because of an overriding sense of duty.

The club must be vary wary of going down this route.



The whole 3G pitch thread is an interesting debate.

I was at the infamous 5-5 draw between QPR & Newcastle back in the mid 1980s. I also saw games at Luton & Oldham on their plastic pitches. The truth is the surfaces were not particularly good. The bounce was awful and unrealistic. I had pleasure of having a kick around on the Luton pitch in 1986. It was nothing like realistic, even with tons of sand on the pitch the bounce of the ball was like playing on concrete. It was a good thing these pitches were eventually banned.

The latest 3G pitches are very different. Down here in East London / Essex at least 4 non league clubs I visit regularly have them Harlow Town, Bowers & Pitsea, Aveley and Haringey Borough. The football on these pitches is of a good standard. At Harlow, 3 different teams play home games on it. Even those in the Essex Senior League (Step 5) can produce fast free flowing football, knowing the ball will run smooothly and won't suffer from bobbling caused by unevenness in the pitch.

Sadly, in the North East, the only 3G pitch I have watched football on (Consett) does not seem for some reason to be up to the standard of those down here. I am not sure why that it.

I am a big fan of the football on 3G pitches now. I suspect many of those opposing football on 3G pitches are either basing it on the fact its not grass or on memories of watching those games on pitches back in the 1980s that are a milion miles away from today's pitches.

3G pitches can be used for International games, UEFA games, FA Cup and non league levels...at present the Football League (& Premier League) are out of step with the rest of the football world.

For a club like Darlington, the extra revenue that may be possible from such a pitch is huge. Not only the hire costs, but increased bar takings etc. Its of no surprise to me that some the smaller clubs "punching above their weight" in the Conference National (eg Bromley, Sutton & Harrogate) are thriving despite relatively low gates because of the extra revenue from the 3G pitch.

The Original Fat Cat rightly cautions about alienating fans ...however, the fact that fans can have more confidence that games will be on in winter is likely to encourage fans to come on days when they may not have bothered for fear games may be off


You mention Harrogate, the main reason they punch above their weight is because their chairman pumps loads of money in, but you do have a point though, as a friend of mine lives across the road from their stadium and tells me that the flood lights are on most nights, because the pitch is active.

However Spen please note, this friend of mine is an experienced lower level football manager, he likes his football a lot - but although he lives local to the Town ground, he won't attend matches.

Can you guess why?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:

However Spen please note, this friend of mine is an experienced lower level football manager, he likes his football a lot - but although he lives local to the Town ground, he won't attend matches.

Can you guess why?


Because he's an old git who won't move with the times.

I've got no time for people who use the artificial pitch excuse. It's usually old farts who try to make out the 4G pitches today are the same as the plastic pitches of the 1980s. They'll say nonsense like "Football is supposed to be played on grass".

They're not. You can get exceptional quality artificial pitches which aren't massively different from turf, and have the benefits of being more usable in the winter.

My prediction is in the next few years, we'll see a big move to the inclusion of artificial pitches in the Football League and Premier League. Football League clubs struggle enough financially as it is, and winter postponements are incredibly damaging. There'll be a load of hot air from the old farts who oppose any sort of change (remember when people said goal-line technology would never work). Then everything will carry on as normal.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:20 pm 
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MB86DFC wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Yes to 4G pitches, no to the Arena. s*** stadium, s*** location. Never, never, never again.


Am I the only one to see the conversion of a normal pitch into a 4G pitch idea as a complete waste of time and money?

Are we eligible for a grant to fund the whole or part of the cost of the 4G pitch (as Eastbourne sports complex was)? If not I can't see how the outlay of around £350k to £500k can ever be repaid by hiring it out / lower ground maintenance costs / the odd match not being postponed. Most 4g pitches in the town do not have a long waiting list of people wanting to use them and even at 75% utilisation it would take years to pay back.

The only way I could see it working is if it was free to install due to grants etc.


A 4G pitch at Mowden will have nothing to do with the football club and we won't see any benefit in finances for that reason.

The only benefit is that matches maybe on during some bad weather.

The negative is that if we did make it to the top of the conference, we would have no option to remove therefore couldn't participate in the Football League. However this is a moot point currently as we are not good enough or have the money to progress.

Also I think the main issue of the Arena is we can't have first shout on the pitch, unless something changes in those discussions.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:26 pm 
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It seems no matter what we do some fans will be alienated. Some say they won't go back to the Arena, (most who say that actually would I expect, they just want to show how much they are against it) and some will pack in due to the tinpot nature of BM. Undoubtedly many have already packed in because of it. A new ground seems totally unrealistic cost-wise and could end up little better than BM if done on the cheap.

I just can't see how a new ground could ever be approved next-door to an existing, far superior, purpose-built one in need of greater utilisation. If it's not clear, I'm in favour of going back to the Arena. It's far from ideal and I don't like the place but it's 100 times better than BM and building a new one would be just daft.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Makka Pakka wrote:
It seems no matter what we do some fans will be alienated. Some say they won't go back to the Arena, (most who say that actually would I expect, they just want to show how much they are against it) and some will pack in due to the tinpot nature of BM. Undoubtedly many have already packed in because of it. A new ground seems totally unrealistic cost-wise and could end up little better than BM if done on the cheap.

I just can't see how a new ground could ever be approved next-door to an existing, far superior, purpose-built one in need of greater utilisation. If it's not clear, I'm in favour of going back to the Arena. It's far from ideal and I don't like the place but it's 100 times better than BM and building a new one would be just daft.



More will return that will leave, I have no doubt crowds will be better at the Arena than they are at BM


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:40 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
A 4G pitch at Mowden will have nothing to do with the football club and we won't see any benefit in finances for that reason.

The only benefit is that matches maybe on during some bad weather.

The negative is that if we did make it to the top of the conference, we would have no option to remove therefore couldn't participate in the Football League. However this is a moot point currently as we are not good enough or have the money to progress.

Also I think the main issue of the Arena is we can't have first shout on the pitch, unless something changes in those discussions.


It seems like we have three options:

Raise £5million for a new ground at the Sporting Village (Not going to happen)
Raise £2million to develop BM (Not going to happen)
Move to the Arena (not allowed back in the FL).

Given that option 1 and 2 are beyond us, this means we won't get back in the FL in any of the scenarios. So what is the loss of moving back to the Arena? This provides us with a greater source of income from corporate and hospitality. Financially, the Arena offers us more than the first two options. There is always the likelihood that 4G pitches will be allowed in the FL sooner or later.

Also, BM is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too. Shallow stands, set far from the pitch, the view is terrible. I'd like to be at a ground where I could see what was happening.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:53 pm 
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We all thought we would get larger crowds being back in Darlo than being at Bishop but that hasn't really happened. I see no reason why more people would suddenly attend being back at the Arena than being at Blackwell. In our last 2 or 3 seasons at the Arena I think I remember the crowds being around the 1700 mark on average and that was in a higher division. Not to dis-similar to what we are getting now. We have significantly damaged our fan base with that administration in 2009 that wrecked any chance Dave Penney had of getting us into league 1. People just haven't come back after that and I am not sure what the answer is to get them back.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
Also, BM is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too.


The Arena is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too. An absolutely wretched venue.

Thousands of empty, faded pink seats. No atmosphere. Opposition fans laughing at us for playing in a stupidly sized stadium. And the obvious primacy of tenure issue anyway.

We would lose a big chunk of our support (myself included) because of the sheer humiliation of going back to the Arena. That's not a comment to show I dislike the Arena. Genuinely I wouldn't go back.

Trust me, our image would be utterly shattered if we went back there. In 2012 we said it was too damaging for us to carry on playing there, to the extent we moved 12 miles out of town. Whenever I speak to another club's supporter, and tell them I support Darlington, the first thing they bring up is "What happened to that stupid stadium?"

Now we'd be saying this stupid stadium is fine for us after all - but can people keep chucking in a few quid for us anyway. Going back to the Arena would finish the club off for good. Sponsors would turn away from us, fans would turn away from us ( despite his claims, MB86DFC has offered nothing to support his claims we would increase our support - our average attendances dropped by half in less than a decade from leaving Feethams and finishing at the Arena). As CarloDarlo rightly states above, our attendances now aren't much lower than they were in our last few years at the Arena.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:04 pm 
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If anyone wants solid figures for Arena attendance we've got figures going back nine years on this very site (check the right hand sidebar) - http://www.darlofc.co.uk/fixtures

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Because he's an old git who won't move with the times.

I've got no time for people who use the artificial pitch excuse. It's usually old farts who try to make out the 4G pitches today are the same as the plastic pitches of the 1980s. They'll say nonsense like "Football is supposed to be played on grass".

They're not. You can get exceptional quality artificial pitches which aren't massively different from turf, and have the benefits of being more usable in the winter.

My prediction is in the next few years, we'll see a big move to the inclusion of artificial pitches in the Football League and Premier League. Football League clubs struggle enough financially as it is, and winter postponements are incredibly damaging. There'll be a load of hot air from the old farts who oppose any sort of change (remember when people said goal-line technology would never work). Then everything will carry on as normal.


If anyone has any reservations over plastic pitches please watch highlights on the National League website of the games involving Harrogate Town and Sutton United. Then come back and say that they are ruined because of playing on an artificial surface.

http://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/mat ... /1-3614046


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
Also, BM is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too. Shallow stands, set far from the pitch, the view is terrible. I'd like to be at a ground where I could see what was happening.


Have you not done away games over the last 6 years or so? :D

Let's be honest BM would have a plan forward if Mowden could afford the arena and didn't want us involved, because we have no other option then.

BM could be built up but we will always have the Rugby Club issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:22 pm 
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carlodarlo wrote:
We all thought we would get larger crowds being back in Darlo than being at Bishop but that hasn't really happened. I see no reason why more people would suddenly attend being back at the Arena than being at Blackwell. In our last 2 or 3 seasons at the Arena I think I remember the crowds being around the 1700 mark on average and that was in a higher division. Not to dis-similar to what we are getting now. We have significantly damaged our fan base with that administration in 2009 that wrecked any chance Dave Penney had of getting us into league 1. People just haven't come back after that and I am not sure what the answer is to get them back.


Let's be honest, we aren't winning and don't look like doing so regularly and the experience is what it is which is why crowds have struggled at BM. The biggest reason is a winning team though, if we had been playing in Darlington from 2012 onwards we would have built up a bigger fan base, having to move out and win most weeks, then move back and not win that often has cost us.

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Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:

However Spen please note, this friend of mine is an experienced lower level football manager, he likes his football a lot - but although he lives local to the Town ground, he won't attend matches.

Can you guess why?


"Because he's an old git who won't move with the times."







Actually no. He is a funny, articulate, successful person who in common with many other people doesn't enjoy to watch football on an artificial pitch.

You on the other hand are a buffoon who can't make a point without being abusive - you take pleasure in insulting people, you openly admit to taking pleasure in trolling Loanstar, and you spoil nearly every single thread on here with your childish behaviour. Now your insulting people you don't even know!

I will not reply to you any further on this thread, so if you're hoping to lure me into a petty quarrel - you're in for a disappointment .

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Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011


Last edited by theoriginalfatcat on Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:30 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Also, BM is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too. Shallow stands, set far from the pitch, the view is terrible. I'd like to be at a ground where I could see what was happening.


Have you not done away games over the last 6 years or so? :D

Let's be honest BM would have a plan forward if Mowden could afford the arena and didn't want us involved, because we have no other option then.

BM could be built up but we will always have the Rugby Club issue.


BM cannot be built up, unless we firstly pay something like £1m to move the pipe. The existing stands cover the areas that can be built on, meaning that it is not possible to get the ground up to FL standard. It's physically impossible to fit in the seats and terracing needed, so you'd have to knock down what is already built and start again. There was no long-term plan for a 5,000 capacity stadium at BM, so it means building from scratch which would cost us millions and is simply not going to happen. You'd be better moving to a new round at the sporting village.

And there are plenty of Northern League grounds that are better than BM. At least most of them have a stand that is elevated. Is there a worse venue in NLN?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Also, BM is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too. Shallow stands, set far from the pitch, the view is terrible. I'd like to be at a ground where I could see what was happening.


Have you not done away games over the last 6 years or so? :D

Let's be honest BM would have a plan forward if Mowden could afford the arena and didn't want us involved, because we have no other option then.

BM could be built up but we will always have the Rugby Club issue.


BM cannot be built up, unless we firstly pay something like £1m to move the pipe. The existing stands cover the areas that can be built on, meaning that it is not possible to get the ground up to FL standard. It's physically impossible to fit in the seats and terracing needed, so you'd have to knock down what is already built and start again. There was no long-term plan for a 5,000 capacity stadium at BM, so it means building from scratch which would cost us millions and is simply not going to happen. You'd be better moving to a new round at the sporting village.

And there are plenty of Northern League grounds that are better than BM. At least most of them have a stand that is elevated. Is there a worse venue in NLN?


I am not convinced our real worry is getting to the FL if I am honest, but I do appreciate that without that hope then it would be pointless. I don't expect to see Darlington back in the FL, unless something drastically changes, I prepared myself for that 7 years ago.

Agree it's one of the worst grounds in NLN, alongside Ashton United, Brackley, BPA (only one big stand).

For me I will make a decision on the best way forward with all the information because we may not have an option on the Arena as Johnston has already advised having priority of the pitch could be a stumbling block anyhow.

If that's the case and we think BM is pointless and we have no cash, what do we do close the club down?

Maybe people don't want to hear this but we may not have an easy way out of the current situation, other than working at it ourselves over a lot of years. I know some will stop coming if that is the final situation, that's up to them I guess.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:51 pm 
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I think that in the unlikely event of us ever getting back into the FL, 4G pitches will be allowed by then.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
I think that in the unlikely event of us ever getting back into the FL, 4G pitches will be allowed by then.


Agreed, certainly in League 2.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Also, BM is a joke. One of the worst venues for watching football I've ever been too. Shallow stands, set far from the pitch, the view is terrible. I'd like to be at a ground where I could see what was happening.


Have you not done away games over the last 6 years or so? :D

Let's be honest BM would have a plan forward if Mowden could afford the arena and didn't want us involved, because we have no other option then.

BM could be built up but we will always have the Rugby Club issue.


BM cannot be built up, unless we firstly pay something like £1m to move the pipe. The existing stands cover the areas that can be built on, meaning that it is not possible to get the ground up to FL standard. It's physically impossible to fit in the seats and terracing needed, so you'd have to knock down what is already built and start again. There was no long-term plan for a 5,000 capacity stadium at BM, so it means building from scratch which would cost us millions and is simply not going to happen. You'd be better moving to a new round at the sporting village.

And there are plenty of Northern League grounds that are better than BM. At least most of them have a stand that is elevated. Is there a worse venue in NLN?

Am I correct in thinking that the DFCSG are working on a plan for the development of BM? I sincerely hope we hear something about long term plans soon, be they BM and/or the SV.

BM is a truly terrible place to watch football (no doubt those feelings are exacerbated by the rubbish which has regularly been served up since seat-gate broke mind), but maybe if there was a vision as to how it might resemble something approaching a football ground there might be a bit more hope about the place. Obvious funding issues aside.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:15 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
For me I will make a decision on the best way forward with all the information because we may not have an option on the Arena as Johnston has already advised having priority of the pitch could be a stumbling block anyhow.

If that's the case and we think BM is pointless and we have no cash, what do we do close the club down?

Maybe people don't want to hear this but we may not have an easy way out of the current situation, other than working at it ourselves over a lot of years. I know some will stop coming if that is the final situation, that's up to them I guess.


The options as I set them out were based on the information DJ has given us. I believe that the first two are impossible (fundraising wise) and therefore only a return to the Arena provides the faintest hope of returning to the FL. I guess it depends if that faint hope is important or not. If you want to retain any hope for the future, beyond miracles, then the Arena provides it, and I think giving up hope would be fatal for the club.

Regarding the priority of pitch situation, as far as I am aware, primacy of tenure only applies if you wish to apply for promotion to the premiership.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/p ... of-tenure/


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:15 pm 
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Beano wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
I think that in the unlikely event of us ever getting back into the FL, 4G pitches will be allowed by then.


Agreed, certainly in League 2.


If allowed in League Two they will be allowed at all divisions in the FL. It is a 'club' which you get membership to remember.

They ban people entering their club without certain criteria being hit (so can't get promo from the National League membership) but moving between divisions in that club would be allowed.

It would create a very strange relegation dilemma if the Premier League allowed them and the FL didn't...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
Regarding the priority of pitch situation, as far as I am aware, primacy of tenure only applies if you wish to apply for promotion to the premiership.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/p ... of-tenure/


That's from a rugby side though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:20 pm 
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I thought someone suggested another alternative which was that if we added inspection / access chambers at either end of the pipe, effectively tunnel around it we could build over it?

I would assume that is cheaper than the £1million move cost?

The important thing is actually knowing what is possible. Because if that say costs £500k to do it then we know that it costs £500k when we need it. By the time we need it we will almost certainly have;

a) have had the funds to build a team which can get promoted (so what c. £1.4m per annum of wages)
b) have available funding from the football foundation as time will have elapsed from our last funding

In the scenario that we need the work we will have the capacity to pay for the work...


Last edited by lo36789 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:20 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:

However Spen please note, this friend of mine is an experienced lower level football manager, he likes his football a lot - but although he lives local to the Town ground, he won't attend matches.

Can you guess why?


"Because he's an old git who won't move with the times."


Actually no. He is a funny, articulate, successful person who in common with many other people doesn't enjoy to watch football on an artificial pitch.

You on the other hand are a buffoon who can't make a point without being abusive - you take pleasure in insulting people, you openly admit to taking pleasure in trolling Loanstar, and you spoil nearly every single thread on here with your childish behaviour. Now your insulting people you don't even know!

I will not reply to you any further on this thread, so if you're hoping to lure me into a petty quarrel - you're in for a disappointment .


Intriguingly, you've ignored every single point I've made on artificial pitches, instead choosing to launch a load of personal abuse. A sure sign you're struggling with the argument here. Also, I'm not insulting your friend personally, more his attitude and refusal to accept change (and not going to games because they're not played on grass is doing just that). It's his choice of course, but I'm allowed to criticise the logic of it.

But the point about not moving with the times is very fair. It's undeniable artificial pitches are much improved, to the point where the difference with grass is reducing. Indeed, I'm right in thinking all Premier League clubs use some form of plastic within their turf as well - hybrid pitches. See here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footb ... -game.html

Now obviously there's a difference between a hybrid pitch where the pitches are predominantly grass mixed with artificial fibres, and a full-on artificial surface. However, as technology advances, this will undoubtedly change over time, and I do believe artificial pitches will improve still further to a point where they're allowed in the EFL, and actually you can barely tell the difference.

Therefore, the idea "Football is played on grass" is antiquated and redundant. It's not the case any more, and the sport is better because of it. People who refuse to watch matches because it's not grass are in my opinion out of touch and frankly I find it a silly point of view.

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