Step 4 Reorganisation

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Quaker85
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Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:22 pm

I know there were major changes to steps 3&4 last summer but is anything planned for next year?

My mate knows Stocktons manager and he seems to be under the impression that 6 NL clubs will go up at the end of next season.

It’s the first I’ve heard of it.


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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:36 pm

Quaker85 wrote:I know there were major changes to steps 3&4 last summer but is anything planned for next year?

My mate knows Stocktons manager and he seems to be under the impression that 6 NL clubs will go up at the end of next season.

It’s the first I’ve heard of it.


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Not heard anything, but if that is the case then it could spell the end of a two league NL, unless they bring in a load of clubs from the Wearside league.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlo2807 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:36 pm

Quaker85 wrote:I know there were major changes to steps 3&4 last summer but is anything planned for next year?

My mate knows Stocktons manager and he seems to be under the impression that 6 NL clubs will go up at the end of next season.

It’s the first I’ve heard of it.


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Interesting if true. The Northern League is quite clearly miles above the quality of other Step 5 leagues, as shown by the monopoly it has on the Vase. Will be bittersweet if the NL decreases in quality, obviously more local games for us if they begin climbing the leagues, but its currently a highly entertaining league to watch but may become less appealing if the quality decreases

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:19 pm

Incidentally, Kev Hayes is on fire for Stockton again tonight. Darlo should take a look at him if they haven’t already done so. Didn’t work out for him at Spendy but it might have been a year too soon for him.


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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by shildonlad » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:20 pm

Ive heard the new step 4 league, covering from berwick to sheffield will start 2020/21 season. You will need at least 6 northern league clubs and the same from the ncel to fill the league so can well believe whats been said. I hope the fa over rules the league and makes it compulsery that the clubs in top 6 go up as opposed to just inviting applicants which would amount to very little intrest. I feel if the fa had said x amount of clubs have to go up from the northern league years ago when new leagues had been added travel would be far less. League may be weaker in the short term but clubs will come back down eventually. If the league was short of club more promotions from wearside league would encourage them to upgrade grounds. Worst case scenario would mean 18 teams a division and eliminate a few midweek games and reduce fixture backlog.
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by lo36789 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:43 pm

Darlo2807 wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:I know there were major changes to steps 3&4 last summer but is anything planned for next year?

My mate knows Stocktons manager and he seems to be under the impression that 6 NL clubs will go up at the end of next season.

It’s the first I’ve heard of it.


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Interesting if true. The Northern League is quite clearly miles above the quality of other Step 5 leagues, as shown by the monopoly it has on the Vase. Will be bittersweet if the NL decreases in quality, obviously more local games for us if they begin climbing the leagues, but its currently a highly entertaining league to watch but may become less appealing if the quality decreases
Is it though? West Auckland are the only NL team in the last 8 this season and only Hebburn were in the last 16 with them.

Newcastle Benfield we’re knocked out by Northwich Victoria, Bedlington knocked out by Silsden, Dunston by Winterton Rangers these aren’t teams who are tearing up their respective divisions.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:47 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Darlo2807 wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:I know there were major changes to steps 3&4 last summer but is anything planned for next year?

My mate knows Stocktons manager and he seems to be under the impression that 6 NL clubs will go up at the end of next season.

It’s the first I’ve heard of it.


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Interesting if true. The Northern League is quite clearly miles above the quality of other Step 5 leagues, as shown by the monopoly it has on the Vase. Will be bittersweet if the NL decreases in quality, obviously more local games for us if they begin climbing the leagues, but its currently a highly entertaining league to watch but may become less appealing if the quality decreases
Is it though? West Auckland are the only NL team in the last 8 this season and only Hebburn were in the last 16 with them.

Newcastle Benfield we’re knocked out by Northwich Victoria, Bedlington knocked out by Silsden, Dunston by Winterton Rangers these aren’t teams who are tearing up their respective divisions.
Come on, you can't just pick three games from one season of a cup competition and claim that as evidence. That's just weak logic. In the FA Cup, Newport County beat Leicester City, Millwall beat Everton, Bristol City beat Huddersfield - it doesn't mean the EFL is better than the Premier League.

The fact Northern League sides consistently get to the latter stages of the Vase (at least one side in the final every season for the last decade, with the overwhelming majority of those sides winning the competition) is a better indication.

We all know the North East has a smaller talent pool because of geography and smaller population. I'd say the Northern League isn't as strong as in previous years, but that's because in recent seasons, more sides have been promoted, as opposed the stacking up we saw when sides like Spennymoor clogged up the division (winning the title several years in a row but failing to take promotion was pathetic).

Now promotion is mandatory, we'll see a level of realignment, with an inevitable weakening of the Northern League. The stronger teams leaving the division will have more of an effect on a region with fewer clubs than say the Midlands or the South East (bigger populations = more football clubs).

But right now, there are plenty of Northern League sides who could capably compete at least at Step 4. The recent record in the FA Vase, and the success of Darlington, Spennymoor and South Shields, as well as Morpeth and Marske both performing well this season is more evidence of that. So even though we can say the Northern League is probably weaker this season than previously, there's enough to suggest sides in the division are just as competitive, if not more competitive than most other Step 5 leagues.

To take three games from one season's cup competition and try to draw conclusions from them about the quality of the Northern League is just really bad.
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:52 am

Good points as well as northern league teams winning most seasons seems years since the league never had a club in the vase final. Also look at whitley bay, good support, decent ground and dominated the vase yet refused promotion. On the other hand no team in fa cup round 1 from league since 2003 and only 1 north east team to ever win the fa trophy or even make the final, infact the north east non league teams have a very poor record in the trophy
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by lo36789 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:22 am

Darlogramps wrote:To take three games from one season's cup competition and try to draw conclusions from them about the quality of the Northern League is just really bad.
The headline that they only get two teams into the last 16 is more the point.

That isn't complete dominance is it - that is the result of a lot more than the 3 games mentioned but I couldn't really be bothered checking individual result earlier than the third round...why because the clubs obviously got knocked out by someone as they aren't in the last 16.

Surely one team doesn't equal the strength of a whole division especially when in the recent years the team who made it to the final of the vase also absolutely dominated the league itself (Spennymoor, Morpeth & South Shields particularly).

La Liga have had a team in 7 of the past 10 champions league finals - does that mean that their league is "clearly miles above the quality of all the other leagues" in world football or does it just mean that Real Madrid and Barcelona are?

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 am

I think folks main gripe (mine included) is the fact teams were bankrolled purely to win the vase and then turn round and say they could not afford promotion mainly due to the cost of travel. West auckland are a prime example of this
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:26 am

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:To take three games from one season's cup competition and try to draw conclusions from them about the quality of the Northern League is just really bad.
The headline that they only get two teams into the last 16 is more the point.

That isn't complete dominance is it - that is the result of a lot more than the 3 games mentioned but I couldn't really be bothered checking individual result earlier than the third round...why because the clubs obviously got knocked out by someone as they aren't in the last 16.

Surely one team doesn't equal the strength of a whole division especially when in the recent years the team who made it to the final of the vase also absolutely dominated the league itself (Spennymoor, Morpeth & South Shields particularly).

La Liga have had a team in 7 of the past 10 champions league finals - does that mean that their league is "clearly miles above the quality of all the other leagues" in world football or does it just mean that Real Madrid and Barcelona are?
You really are living proof that a uni education doesn't make you intelligent.

My entire point was you can't judge an entire league's strength based on one season's cup competition.

So what do you do? Exactly that.

Stop using this season's FA Vase as your only basis for your argument. It's a terrible argument. Cup and League matches are very different because of the unique pressures of one-off cup football.

You need to look at historical factors, club size, financial power, attendances and so on.

The trouble with your La Liga argument is only Real, Barca (and Atletico - who you for some reason forgot) get there. Nor do they get there because of La Liga - they get there largely because of finances and being able to attract the best players.

The Northern League has totally dominated the Vase in the past decade - Whitley Bay, Dunston, West Auckland, Spennymoor, North Shields, South Shields, Morpeth and Stockton all have got to the final since 2008. All very different clubs. So using the two divisions as a comparison falls flat.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:36 am

lo36789 wrote: Surely one team doesn't equal the strength of a whole division especially when in the recent years the team who made it to the final of the vase also absolutely dominated the league itself (Spennymoor, Morpeth & South Shields particularly).
Not true at all. In fact it's unbelievably wrong. I mean so hilariously wrong.

The year Spennymoor won the Vase, we absolutely dominated the Northern League. (Did you really forget this?)

The year Morpeth won the Vase, they came 4th in the league.

The year South Shields won the Vase, they won the league by 7 points, but North Shields and Morpeth were in the race all season, with all three getting more than 100 points. Hardly "absolutely dominating".

The year Stockton reached the final, they finished 6th in the league.

The year North Shields won the Vase, they finished 4th.

Need I go on? Stop making things up and do some basic research. It'll stop you looking like a fool.
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:26 am

NL clubs are not dominating the FA Vase this year, as I believe only one is left in the last 8. If the top 6 are to get promoted next season, I bet there will be a few strange results as teams try to avoid promotion.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by H1987 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Why? If six teams go up, you'd have at least five local games, probably more. The reason for avoiding it would pretty much be gone.

I always thought the days of repeated promotion refusal were ridiculous anyway - it became a self fulfilling prophecy where of course you would end up with basically no local games because there were no North Eastern sides taking promotion. We were the first to do it, I think. There was a couple of years it seemed as though the entirety of our games were in the North West.

It's hopefully balancing out a little more now. If you look at step 8 now, you have Marske and Morpeth going pretty well, as well as the teams being east of the pennines, which I think was half the issue previously. If those two were to hang about, plus six going up from the Northern league, about a third of your games would be northern league distances anyway!

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by banktopp » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:21 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:To take three games from one season's cup competition and try to draw conclusions from them about the quality of the Northern League is just really bad.
The headline that they only get two teams into the last 16 is more the point.

That isn't complete dominance is it - that is the result of a lot more than the 3 games mentioned but I couldn't really be bothered checking individual result earlier than the third round...why because the clubs obviously got knocked out by someone as they aren't in the last 16.

Surely one team doesn't equal the strength of a whole division especially when in the recent years the team who made it to the final of the vase also absolutely dominated the league itself (Spennymoor, Morpeth & South Shields particularly).

La Liga have had a team in 7 of the past 10 champions league finals - does that mean that their league is "clearly miles above the quality of all the other leagues" in world football or does it just mean that Real Madrid and Barcelona are?
You really are living proof that a uni education doesn't make you intelligent.

My entire point was you can't judge an entire league's strength based on one season's cup competition.

So what do you do? Exactly that.

Stop using this season's FA Vase as your only basis for your argument. It's a terrible argument. Cup and League matches are very different because of the unique pressures of one-off cup football.

You need to look at historical factors, club size, financial power, attendances and so on.

The trouble with your La Liga argument is only Real, Barca (and Atletico - who you for some reason forgot) get there. Nor do they get there because of La Liga - they get there largely because of finances and being able to attract the best players.

The Northern League has totally dominated the Vase in the past decade - Whitley Bay, Dunston, West Auckland, Spennymoor, North Shields, South Shields, Morpeth and Stockton all have got to the final since 2008. All very different clubs. So using the two divisions as a comparison falls flat.
Omitting your first line of usual insults, and there are some valid points.

P.S. Are you 'competitive dad' from the Fast Show ?

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Spyman » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:28 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:To take three games from one season's cup competition and try to draw conclusions from them about the quality of the Northern League is just really bad.
The headline that they only get two teams into the last 16 is more the point.

That isn't complete dominance is it - that is the result of a lot more than the 3 games mentioned but I couldn't really be bothered checking individual result earlier than the third round...why because the clubs obviously got knocked out by someone as they aren't in the last 16.

Surely one team doesn't equal the strength of a whole division especially when in the recent years the team who made it to the final of the vase also absolutely dominated the league itself (Spennymoor, Morpeth & South Shields particularly).

La Liga have had a team in 7 of the past 10 champions league finals - does that mean that their league is "clearly miles above the quality of all the other leagues" in world football or does it just mean that Real Madrid and Barcelona are?
How many step 5 leagues feed in to the Vase?



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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by lo36789 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:37 pm

Spyman wrote:How many step 5 leagues feed in to the Vase?
I think it's 14 after the last restructure...there are 7 step 4s aren't there and it is double that?

The point is that using the Vase results from previous seasons as an indicator of the strength of the NL now being far and away stronger than all other divisions at that level doesn't really have much basis.

The NL was stronger when teams weren't taking promotion from it, now they are I think it is getting weaker by the season - and I would point to the Vase performances this season as evidence of that.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:00 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Spyman wrote:How many step 5 leagues feed in to the Vase?
I think it's 14 after the last restructure...there are 7 step 4s aren't there and it is double that?

The point is that using the Vase results from previous seasons as an indicator of the strength of the NL now being far and away stronger than all other divisions at that level doesn't really have much basis.
But that's not the sole argument I'm making. Why are you trying to distort the points I'm making? When you look historically, even down to last season, sides which have gone up from the Northern League have performed strongly.

Ourselves, Spennymoor and South Shields have motored through the leagues. Morpeth currently top their Step 4 division after promotion last season. Marske aren't doing as well, but are certainly competitive.

Add that to the domination of the FA Vase, it tells you how strong the Northern League is.
lo36789 wrote: The NL was stronger when teams weren't taking promotion from it, now they are I think it is getting weaker by the season - and I would point to the Vase performances this season as evidence of that.
But that's a terrible argument when West Auckland are still in the competition, and indeed are favourites according to the bookies. If they go on to win it or even get to the final, it reinforces the idea the Northern League is still dominant.

You've made error after error here. Not only has your limited knowledge of the Northern League been shown up (see my earlier post dismantling your suggestion teams "dominated the division" the year they reached the final), you're now persisting with the flawed idea that how teams perform in a cup competition for one season is reflective of the entire strength of the division.

Fewer Premier League teams are in the FA Cup last 16 this season. That doesn't mean the PL is any weaker. You can't draw those conclusions from one-off cup games. Promoted Championship teams repeatedly struggle to establish themselves in the top 10 of the PL. That tells you how strong the PL is.

Instead, let's look at the evidence of the past decade, including this season, which shows how strongly Northern League side perform after promotion. Or their consistent dominance of the FA Vase.

I agree the Northern League is weaker this season as better sides have moved up. But I still think it's more competitive and better quality than other Step 5 leagues and there's a lot of evidence to support that. The logic you're using of pointing to a handful of FA Vase results is flawed, particularly as a Northern League side is in the last eight and currently the favourite to win the competition.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:09 pm

banktopp wrote: Omitting your first line of usual insults, and there are some valid points.

P.S. Are you 'competitive dad' from the Fast Show ?
People on here decided it was OK for others to joke I have mental health problems, so
you can't get upset with me for insulting people, if you're happy to think jokes about mental health are acceptable. Particularly given the problems one of our own players has had.

Anyway, let's keep this on the topic of the strength of the Northern League and not have another boring discussion about me.
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:17 pm

Lets get back on topic. I agree the northern league sides have not struggled when promoted thats because they have mostly just took promotion when either mega money has been involved or they have won the league several times and all the cups. Alot of the teams did not want to take promotion and not go up the next season and finish mid table, doing so has skewed football in the region. Thanks to compulsory promotion a team could win the league on a whim like brandon did and would probably go straight back down and that is how football works
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Fatty eats roadkill » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:40 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
banktopp wrote: Omitting your first line of usual insults, and there are some valid points.

P.S. Are you 'competitive dad' from the Fast Show ?
People on here decided it was OK for others to joke I have mental health problems, so
you can't get upset with me for insulting people, if you're happy to think jokes about mental health are acceptable. Particularly given the problems one of our own players has had.

Anyway, let's keep this on the topic of the strength of the Northern League and not have another boring discussion about me.
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Alfie » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:59 pm

For those that are really interested in recent and proposed reorgs at various non-league levels- have a look at www.nonleaguematters.co.uk - one of the many forums goes into great detail - bit of a slog to work thru but gives a good picture of what is going on, with the general view that the FA are idiots with no understanding of, or empathy with, non league issues.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Spyman » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:24 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Spyman wrote:How many step 5 leagues feed in to the Vase?
I think it's 14 after the last restructure...there are 7 step 4s aren't there and it is double that?

The point is that using the Vase results from previous seasons as an indicator of the strength of the NL now being far and away stronger than all other divisions at that level doesn't really have much basis.

The NL was stronger when teams weren't taking promotion from it, now they are I think it is getting weaker by the season - and I would point to the Vase performances this season as evidence of that.
So you'd expect 1/16 teams roughly from each division.

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We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Bit of context for Northern League sides making at least the quarter finals:

2015 - 1 side
2016 - 1 side
2017 - 1 side
2018 - 2 sides
2019 - 1 side

So is this season really as weak as Lo is making out?
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Quaker85 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:01 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:NL clubs are not dominating the FA Vase this year, as I believe only one is left in the last 8. If the top 6 are to get promoted next season, I bet there will be a few strange results as teams try to avoid promotion.
Part of the reason for this is that the FA keep drawing NL clubs against each other!


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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by lo36789 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:57 pm

Ok so because one team every season gets through a few cup games (which you already declare is meaningless assessment as they are one off games where anything can happen) that means that all teams in that division are stronger than all others in the leagues at the same level. Gotcha.

Do I need to add some random insult into the mix maybe after everything I say put “and only a complete tool would think this would / wouldn’t be the case” oh no wait, it’s a bit unnecessary as actually a point should be able to stand on its own feet without a clause of insult to try and validate it.

Every argument I have made can be challenged and so can yours they are opinions at the end of the day on what you have seen and what I have seen of respective divisions. I’d argue I see more of them than you but I don’t actually care how much football you watch at that level.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:20 pm

lo36789 wrote:Ok so because one team every season gets through a few cup games (which you already declare is meaningless assessment as they are one off games where anything can happen) that means that all teams in that division are stronger than all others in the leagues at the same level. Gotcha.
Ah yes, the strawman. Classic tactic of the beaten man.

If you're taking an inter-division knockout competition involving teams of the same level (such as the FA Vase), to look at one season and draw conclusions (like you have done) would be incorrect. There can be a series of one-off factors that leads to a team being knocked out - unlucky draw, bad refereeing decisions, injuries, suspensions etc.

But if you see consistent results over a period, that is more valid is as it is indicative of a pattern. That's why a Northern League club making it to the final every season for a decade is more statistically significant and weakens your assertion the Northern League isn't dominant. It's the same logic behind repeating scientific experiments, for example. A result is more significant if it happens several times than in a one-off instance.

If it was the the same club making it through from the Northern League, you'd have a point. But eight different teams making the final over a decade does indicate the Northern League is stronger. That's pretty much unarguable. And that's before my other point on teams promoted from the Northern League performing strongly in the divisions above.

You've also said Northern League sides haven't performed as well in the FA Vase this season. What I'm demonstrating is, in context, Northern League sides aren't performing any weaker than in the previous five years, save for last season where they actually did even better, (which actually further strengthens my point).

Do I need to add some random insult into the mix maybe after everything I say put “and only a complete tool would think this would / wouldn’t be the case” oh no wait, it’s a bit unnecessary as actually a point should be able to stand on its own feet without a clause of insult to try and validate it.
Thing is, you've not demonstrated any semblance of respect for my arguments. You've ignored multiple points I've made (for instance not even acknowledging the point about promotions).

Moreover your knowledge of Northern League performance in the FA Vase hasn't been strong (you claimed Spennymoor dominated the Northern League in the season we actually won it - and are still yet to correct yourself).

I don't see why I should show any respect for you when you won't acknowledge strong counter-points or move to correct your own inaccuracies.
lo36789 wrote: Every argument I have made can be challenged and so can yours they are opinions at the end of the day on what you have seen and what I have seen of respective divisions. I’d argue I see more of them than you but I don’t actually care how much football you watch at that level.
I disagree. Yes all opinions can be challenged, but the point is some opinions are better than others, depending on how much you can back it up. An opinion that is backed by solid evidence is much better than a speculative one.

If you're trying to go down the "I watch more football than you" route, that really is a sign of desperation. People can perfectly back-up an opinion using facts, statistics, historical examples. You don't need to be at a football match every night to be able to demonstrate a coherent, reasoned argument.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

lo36789
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by lo36789 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:54 pm

That’s not the argument though - the argument is whether the Northern League as a whole is stronger than the rest of the divisions at the same level - using Vase dominance as evidence of this.

I am not sure I count one team getting through in a competition as overall dominance in a competition, as evidenced by this season competition and actually previous years based on your evidence NL clubs are repeatedly defeated by clubs from other division. Particularly since the season we started the promotion trend.

I don’t ignore the point about promotions, in fact I acknowledged that within my suggestion that the league is a weaker now as a result of the promotions which have been taken.

Also performing well after a promotion is hardly a unique characteristic of NL teams in fact that the two teams at the top of the EvoStik West are Atherton Colliieries and Runcorn Linnets the teams promoted from North West Counties in past 2 seasons - does that mean the North West Counties is now strongest (FWIW I would expect the same thing to happen next year as City of Liverpool will go straight through as well).

I’m surprised you actually think that “showing respect” is equivalent to not having to append an insult to every counter argument you make.

I’m not I’m making a point that how you cut the statistics will be done to support your point. You have claimed that NL clubs dominate a competition yet in your own figures illustrate that of the past 40 odd quarter finalists only 5 have been NL clubs. That doesn’t scream dominance to me that screams that every season one club from the NL happens to perform strongly in that competition it doesn’t equate to the entire league being stronger than every other league in the country.

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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:02 pm

lo36789 wrote: I am not sure I count one team getting through in a competition as overall dominance in a competition, as evidenced by this season competition and actually previous years based on your evidence NL clubs are repeatedly defeated by clubs from other division. Particularly since the season we started the promotion trend.
Eh? It's not just one team getting through. That is fact-twisting to the most crackpot level.

Northern League teams have won eight out of the last 10 finals, and had a representative in every final for a decade. Of the last 20 finalists, 11 have been from the Northern League. Given there are 14 separate divisions at step five, that's pretty dominant. I don't know what else they'd need to do to to demonstrate dominance.

Moreover, it's been eight different sides who've made the final, with another four making the last eight (Shildon, Marske, Newcastle Benfield, Norton and Stockton). So 12 separate Northern League sides have made at least the quarter finals in the past decade. That indicates the division is very strong throughout, in comparison to the other 13 Step Five leagues. No other Step Five league has a record like that.

In addition, there's actually no way you can say it is weaker this season, because having a representative in the quarter finals (indeed the favourites for the competition) is on a par with previous years.

And if a division consistently supplies different finalists for the same competition, that suggests it is consistently stronger than the others.

I fear you've got to the point where you're just making stuff up and twisting things now because you can't accept being wrong.
Also performing well after a promotion is hardly a unique characteristic of NL teams in fact that the two teams at the top of the EvoStik West are Atherton Colliieries and Runcorn Linnets the teams promoted from North West Counties in past 2 seasons - does that mean the North West Counties is now strongest (FWIW I would expect the same thing to happen next year as City of Liverpool will go straight through as well).
Huzzah! You've managed a relevant point. However, of the teams promoted from the NWCFL since 2009, none of them are currently in the NPL. If the NWCFL was that competitive, surely more teams would have established themselves higher up. In comparison, Darlington, Spennymoor and South Shields have made it to that level and beyond (or in Shields' case are competing for the title this season). So overall the relative competitiveness of Northern League sides is far greater than NWCFL.
I’m surprised you actually think that “showing respect” is equivalent to not having to append an insult to every counter argument you make.
Given you forgot we won the Northern League in 2013, I think I've been quite restrained in my insults. You've still not corrected this embarrassing oversight by the way.
lo36789 wrote: I’m not I’m making a point that how you cut the statistics will be done to support your point. You have claimed that NL clubs dominate a competition yet in your own figures illustrate that of the past 40 odd quarter finalists only 5 have been NL clubs. That doesn’t scream dominance to me that screams that every season one club from the NL happens to perform strongly in that competition it doesn’t equate to the entire league being stronger than every other league in the country.
Again, you're twisting it. Even fewer quarter-finalists have been clubs from other divisions. And the record is even better once you get beyond the last eight.

Eight winners of the past 10, 11 finalists of the past 20, and considerably more representatives in the latter stages than any other division (no other division has had more representatives) does tell you the Northern League has dominated the competition.

If you're seriously trying to argue that a division which has supplied 8 out of the past 10 winners hasn't been dominating the competition, you really are just being stupid. That's not an insult, it's just fact.

To be honest, the original point you took issue with was Darlo2807's assertion the Northern League was miles better than every other division. What you've done is twist that and made out he was saying club-for-club, it is better, which is unrealistic to even go about measuring. You're basically twisting his words to set an impossible bar, which again is the sign you know you're struggling.

But, when we take the best measurements for comparing divisions (historical performance in the Vase and much greater success from its promoted sides) it suggests the Northern League is the strongest Step 5 division in the country and has been for the past decade.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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lo36789
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Re: Step 4 Reorganisation

Post by lo36789 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:22 am

As I say - belief is that it was but I’m not sure it’s so true anymore - using the ease to which NL clubs have been seen off by teams from other divisions.

Back when no teams took promotion so every non-league player in the north east ended up basically in the northern league. I don’t think that is true anymore given Spennymoor, Darlington, South Shields, Marke and Morpeth have strong contingents of northern based players in their teams. And actually to an extent Hartlepool and York dropping into non-league means they will be a safety net for north east based player before they hit the northern league (although their full time status meansf a players ‘home’ location has less bearing)

Those players 5 years ago would have all been playing in the Northern League - now they are not and to suggest there is some sort of endless supply of talented footballers in the north east who are of a greater standard than the rest of the country doesn’t stack up.

I tell you what. How about we pick this up in 2 years when my bet is that there will be 3 teams in NPLPD recently promoted from NWCPD (Atherton Colls, Runcorn Linnets & City of Liverpool). Because you are trying to base the now on results from 5 years ago - whereas I am trying to use the now as the evidence of now.

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