National League Stadia

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quakersfan
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National League Stadia

Post by quakersfan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:39 pm

For anyone interested in National League stadiums below is quite interesting bearing in mind club are looking at options.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B-1OIe222I

OnTheTerraces
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by OnTheTerraces » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:08 pm

sometimes i dont get our obsession with having our own ground.

We dont fill blakcwell meadows

We never owened feethams

Cant we just get on with what we have and let the board do their bit in the background if there is an alternative.

If not, we are in Darlo and we embrace/improve what we have. A stand behind the goal at the away end would make the ground acceptable in my opinion.

bigdavethemaddog
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by bigdavethemaddog » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:14 pm

i like BM and apart from behind the 'away' goal its quite decent and adequate for what we need.

H1987
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:58 pm

I totally agree, once we have a stand in the empty end, it will feel like more of a ground, and adequate for the national league.

Darlopartisan
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Darlopartisan » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:21 am

Chesterfield must of spent a few bob.

al_quaker
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by al_quaker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:34 am

In my opinion BM is an awful place to watch football - large run off areas coupled with no height, so that the only way to get a decent view is to go into hospitality. There are large open spaces and it's hard to get a decent atmosphere. It's little wonder we didn't have a return to Darlington bounce. It's a rugby field converted on the cheap to accommodate football - and you can tell. A 2/3 terrace at the open end will improve the look of the place, but it wont solve some of the fundamental problems with BM that make it so bad.

It's 'adequate' in that it allows us to play football at this level, but I doubt it will ever be a good viewing experience, and that is a huge problem for us in trying to grow crowds. I'm struggling to work up the enthusiasm to go tonight. That is partly because we're pretty crap, but partly because I'm sick of going to matches where it's hard to see whats going on. If I'm feeling like that - as a season ticket holder, a DFCSG member and a BtB contributor - it's little wonder our crowds are plummeting.

But I guess it is what it is until we find out what DJ has been working on. I sincerely hope that those plans give some light at the end of the tunnel with regards to a decent ground.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by jjljks » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:37 am

al_quaker wrote:In my opinion BM is an awful place to watch football - large run off areas coupled with no height, so that the only way to get a decent view is to go into hospitality. There are large open spaces and it's hard to get a decent atmosphere. It's little wonder we didn't have a return to Darlington bounce. It's a rugby field converted on the cheap to accommodate football - and you can tell. A 2/3 terrace at the open end will improve the look of the place, but it wont solve some of the fundamental problems with BM that make it so bad.

It's 'adequate' in that it allows us to play football at this level, but I doubt it will ever be a good viewing experience, and that is a huge problem for us in trying to grow crowds. I'm struggling to work up the enthusiasm to go tonight. That is partly because we're pretty crap, but partly because I'm sick of going to matches where it's hard to see whats going on. If I'm feeling like that - as a season ticket holder, a DFCSG member and a BtB contributor - it's little wonder our crowds are plummeting.

But I guess it is what it is until we find out what DJ has been working on. I sincerely hope that those plans give some light at the end of the tunnel with regards to a decent ground.
Very little to disagree agree with, apart from the "crowds are plummeting" bit. Would be nice to have a "mini Tin Shed" or at least a 2/3 terracing at the far end, however why should we spend money on a ground that does not belong to us? It isn't as if we have pots of money lying around in the bank that could be put to better use. Waiting for news on the Sports Village is worse than Brexit as at least there is 29th March end date in sight.

Until then, we as fans have to get behind the team, the manager and the Board by turning out and chipping in whatever we can. Keep the faith :thumbup:

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by JE93 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:16 pm

al_quaker wrote:In my opinion BM is an awful place to watch football - large run off areas coupled with no height, so that the only way to get a decent view is to go into hospitality. There are large open spaces and it's hard to get a decent atmosphere. It's little wonder we didn't have a return to Darlington bounce. It's a rugby field converted on the cheap to accommodate football - and you can tell. A 2/3 terrace at the open end will improve the look of the place, but it wont solve some of the fundamental problems with BM that make it so bad.

It's 'adequate' in that it allows us to play football at this level, but I doubt it will ever be a good viewing experience, and that is a huge problem for us in trying to grow crowds. I'm struggling to work up the enthusiasm to go tonight. That is partly because we're pretty crap, but partly because I'm sick of going to matches where it's hard to see whats going on. If I'm feeling like that - as a season ticket holder, a DFCSG member and a BtB contributor - it's little wonder our crowds are plummeting.

But I guess it is what it is until we find out what DJ has been working on. I sincerely hope that those plans give some light at the end of the tunnel with regards to a decent ground.

Did you feel the same about Heritage Park?
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
- I agree with you that the run off areas around the pitch are large at BM but to get the elevation you would have wanted at HP you would have to be stood back from the pitch anyway? Similar with the arena, if you wanted elevation you would be a long way from the pitch.

Is BM the perfect football ground, definitely not. But is it suitable for what we need, definitely. 450 with a good view in the seats, 900 with a good view in the shed, 50 in hospitality. and 200 or so spread around the pitch. That would give you 1600 attendance with everyone having a decent view of the game. How many times this season have we managed more than that?

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by don'tbuythesun » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:26 pm

[quote="Darlopartisan"]Chesterfield must of spent a few bob.[/quote
£13m apparently but they were in League 1 soon after it opened! Those parachute payments must help. I read Sunderland will get £35m for next season.

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loan_star
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by loan_star » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:48 pm

JE93 wrote:
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
I'll add to that with the fact that unless you were stood at the fence in the shed end you wouldnt know what was going on in the 6 yard box!
I'm not a fan of run offs but at least you can see all the goalmouth action at BM.
And its certainly closer to the action than sitting at the back of block 18 at the arena!

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Yarblockos » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 pm

JE93 wrote:
al_quaker wrote:In my opinion BM is an awful place to watch football - large run off areas coupled with no height, so that the only way to get a decent view is to go into hospitality. There are large open spaces and it's hard to get a decent atmosphere. It's little wonder we didn't have a return to Darlington bounce. It's a rugby field converted on the cheap to accommodate football - and you can tell. A 2/3 terrace at the open end will improve the look of the place, but it wont solve some of the fundamental problems with BM that make it so bad.

It's 'adequate' in that it allows us to play football at this level, but I doubt it will ever be a good viewing experience, and that is a huge problem for us in trying to grow crowds. I'm struggling to work up the enthusiasm to go tonight. That is partly because we're pretty crap, but partly because I'm sick of going to matches where it's hard to see whats going on. If I'm feeling like that - as a season ticket holder, a DFCSG member and a BtB contributor - it's little wonder our crowds are plummeting.

But I guess it is what it is until we find out what DJ has been working on. I sincerely hope that those plans give some light at the end of the tunnel with regards to a decent ground.

Did you feel the same about Heritage Park?
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
- I agree with you that the run off areas around the pitch are large at BM but to get the elevation you would have wanted at HP you would have to be stood back from the pitch anyway? Similar with the arena, if you wanted elevation you would be a long way from the pitch.

Is BM the perfect football ground, definitely not. But is it suitable for what we need, definitely. 450 with a good view in the seats, 900 with a good view in the shed, 50 in hospitality. and 200 or so spread around the pitch. That would give you 1600 attendance with everyone having a decent view of the game. How many times this season have we managed more than that?
If you can't get a view of the game when more than 2,000 people are in the ground then you're not going to get many gates bigger than 2,000. It's not suitable for us if we have any intention of progressing.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Yarblockos » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:56 pm

loan_star wrote:
JE93 wrote:
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
I'll add to that with the fact that unless you were stood at the fence in the shed end you wouldnt know what was going on in the 6 yard box!
I'm not a fan of run offs but at least you can see all the goalmouth action at BM.
And its certainly closer to the action than sitting at the back of block 18 at the arena!
How much of the six yard box at the other end can you see from the Tin Shed?

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loan_star
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by loan_star » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:59 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
loan_star wrote:
JE93 wrote:
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
I'll add to that with the fact that unless you were stood at the fence in the shed end you wouldnt know what was going on in the 6 yard box!
I'm not a fan of run offs but at least you can see all the goalmouth action at BM.
And its certainly closer to the action than sitting at the back of block 18 at the arena!
How much of the six yard box at the other end can you see from the Tin Shed?
All of it. :crazy:

al_quaker
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by al_quaker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 pm

JE93 wrote: Did you feel the same about Heritage Park?
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
- I agree with you that the run off areas around the pitch are large at BM but to get the elevation you would have wanted at HP you would have to be stood back from the pitch anyway? Similar with the arena, if you wanted elevation you would be a long way from the pitch.

Is BM the perfect football ground, definitely not. But is it suitable for what we need, definitely. 450 with a good view in the seats, 900 with a good view in the shed, 50 in hospitality. and 200 or so spread around the pitch. That would give you 1600 attendance with everyone having a decent view of the game. How many times this season have we managed more than that?
HP was tight to the pitch, which, for me at least, is far preferable if there's not much elevation. In my opinion, if you are a long way back from the pitch you need height. BM can not offer this and likely never will.

Another key difference of course with HP was that it was never meant to be a permanent base for the club. There is a possibility that BM is it for the rest of our lives. And barring the removal of the clubhouse and the installation of a proper stand in its place (which will be tough to finance and likely never be allowed by the rugby club) I struggle to see how BM is going to ever be a reasonable football ground.

And you and I clearly have differing opinions on what constitutes a 'decent view'. The only time I've had what I think is a good view at BM is in hospitality. Even the back row of the seated stand is pretty crap. It only appears ok because every other view for the average punter is so bad.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by jjljks » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:48 pm

The only way you can get a 'perfect view' is from a drone over the pitch! Part of the match experience is getting into a spot which gives you a satisfactory vantage point. Some folk prefer or need seats, so there are enough there to pick up for £2 extra on the day. Others like to swap ends at half time - not many grounds allow that, but it was a legendary feature of Feethams (and even that had some rubbish spots and plenty of problems). There are limits to what can be improved at BM, and ideally would enclose the current clubhouse under a new stand, but since we are not the owners, just keep adding to the fund for when we have a proper 'home'.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by al_quaker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:57 pm

jjljks wrote:The only way you can get a 'perfect view' is from a drone over the pitch!

I'm not after a 'perfect' view, I'm after a decent view
jjljks wrote:Part of the match experience is getting into a spot which gives you a satisfactory vantage point.
Christ that's depressing. If we are expecting people to fight over 'satisfactory' viewing points than we will never ever grow crowds.
jjljks wrote:Some folk prefer or need seats, so there are enough there to pick up for £2 extra on the day.
There are enough seats for our diminishing crowds, but most of them are no better than flat standing. They offer negligible height.
jjljks wrote:Others like to swap ends at half time - not many grounds allow that, but it was a legendary feature of Feethams (and even that had some rubbish spots and plenty of problems).
As someone who prefers to view games from the side, I personally don't care whether migration is allowed or not, although I acknowledge for some that could be a plus point for BM - when segregation is not in place of course. Feethams also had some great spots to view a match from. The new East Stand was superb.
jjljks wrote:There are limits to what can be improved at BM, and ideally would enclose the current clubhouse under a new stand, but since we are not the owners, just keep adding to the fund for when we have a proper 'home'.
Finally something I agree with you on :lol:

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Yarblockos » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:00 pm

loan_star wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
loan_star wrote:
JE93 wrote:
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
I'll add to that with the fact that unless you were stood at the fence in the shed end you wouldnt know what was going on in the 6 yard box!
I'm not a fan of run offs but at least you can see all the goalmouth action at BM.
And its certainly closer to the action than sitting at the back of block 18 at the arena!
How much of the six yard box at the other end can you see from the Tin Shed?
All of it. :crazy:
You need elevation to get a proper view of the six yard box at the other end, otherwise there is this thing called "players" that get in the way.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by jjljks » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:10 pm

al_quaker wrote:
jjljks wrote:The only way you can get a 'perfect view' is from a drone over the pitch!

I'm not after a 'perfect' view, I'm after a decent view
jjljks wrote:Part of the match experience is getting into a spot which gives you a satisfactory vantage point.
Christ that's depressing. If we are expecting people to fight over 'satisfactory' viewing points than we will never ever grow crowds.
jjljks wrote:Some folk prefer or need seats, so there are enough there to pick up for £2 extra on the day.
There are enough seats for our diminishing crowds, but most of them are no better than flat standing. They offer negligible height.
jjljks wrote:Others like to swap ends at half time - not many grounds allow that, but it was a legendary feature of Feethams (and even that had some rubbish spots and plenty of problems).
As someone who prefers to view games from the side, I personally don't care whether migration is allowed or not, although I acknowledge for some that could be a plus point for BM - when segregation is not in place of course. Feethams also had some great spots to view a match from. The new East Stand was superb.
jjljks wrote:There are limits to what can be improved at BM, and ideally would enclose the current clubhouse under a new stand, but since we are not the owners, just keep adding to the fund for when we have a proper 'home'.
Finally something I agree with you on :lol:
No worries! There is a conspiracy theory that the club make more from hospitality so that is why they are keeping the best for those clients. Well worth the extra, though!

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by JE93 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:11 pm

al_quaker wrote:
jjljks wrote:The only way you can get a 'perfect view' is from a drone over the pitch!

I'm not after a 'perfect' view, I'm after a decent view
jjljks wrote:Part of the match experience is getting into a spot which gives you a satisfactory vantage point.
Christ that's depressing. If we are expecting people to fight over 'satisfactory' viewing points than we will never ever grow crowds.
jjljks wrote:Some folk prefer or need seats, so there are enough there to pick up for £2 extra on the day.
There are enough seats for our diminishing crowds, but most of them are no better than flat standing. They offer negligible height.
jjljks wrote:Others like to swap ends at half time - not many grounds allow that, but it was a legendary feature of Feethams (and even that had some rubbish spots and plenty of problems).
As someone who prefers to view games from the side, I personally don't care whether migration is allowed or not, although I acknowledge for some that could be a plus point for BM - when segregation is not in place of course. Feethams also had some great spots to view a match from. The new East Stand was superb.
jjljks wrote:There are limits to what can be improved at BM, and ideally would enclose the current clubhouse under a new stand, but since we are not the owners, just keep adding to the fund for when we have a proper 'home'.
Finally something I agree with you on :lol:
Just out of interest, where did you sit at the Arena? For reference. I used to sit at about row 9, block 17 behind the goal. Which was my preference of view, behind the goal, not pitch level but not too high. Which is probably why I'm pretty happy stood midway up the tin shed.

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loan_star
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by loan_star » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:02 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
loan_star wrote:
JE93 wrote:
- It was, in the main, open (it had less covered capacity than BM).
- There was limited elevation, the shed was smaller than the tin shed, and we had a grass bank that we weren't actually allowed to stand on.
I'll add to that with the fact that unless you were stood at the fence in the shed end you wouldnt know what was going on in the 6 yard box!
I'm not a fan of run offs but at least you can see all the goalmouth action at BM.
And its certainly closer to the action than sitting at the back of block 18 at the arena!
How much of the six yard box at the other end can you see from the Tin Shed?
All of it. :crazy:
You need elevation to get a proper view of the six yard box at the other end, otherwise there is this thing called "players" that get in the way.
So how much of the other 6 yard box did you see from the shed at Bishop or virtually any other ground that we visit where you are watching the action from the other end? The far goal at BM is only about 5m further away than if the tin shed was right behind the goal.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Yarblockos » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:37 pm

loan_star wrote:So how much of the other 6 yard box did you see from the shed at Bishop or virtually any other ground that we visit where you are watching the action from the other end? The far goal at BM is only about 5m further away than if the tin shed was right behind the goal.
I'm not talking about Bishop. You were claiming that the Tin Shed at BM gives a better view than the back of block 18. You could clearly see the opposite goalmouth much better from Block 18 than you can from the Tin Shed at BM. The seats at Bishop also had more elevation that the seats at BM.

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loan_star
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by loan_star » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:45 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
loan_star wrote:So how much of the other 6 yard box did you see from the shed at Bishop or virtually any other ground that we visit where you are watching the action from the other end? The far goal at BM is only about 5m further away than if the tin shed was right behind the goal.
I'm not talking about Bishop. You were claiming that the Tin Shed at BM gives a better view than the back of block 18. You could clearly see the opposite goalmouth much better from Block 18 than you can from the Tin Shed at BM. The seats at Bishop also had more elevation that the seats at BM.
No I didn't, I said it was closer to the action.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by H1987 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:08 pm

Right now, BM is fine coping with about 2,300 or so. After that, views are going to suffer.

With another tinshed, maybe even like the one at Heritage Park at the open end, things will improve, in terms of coping with crowds and atmosphere. We might as well make the most of it. This sports village idea is just pie in the sky. We can't afford to build something bespoke, the council won't pay for it, and anything is better than the Arena.

With that, BM is more than comparable to some of those grounds in the national league. We really don't need to worry about beyond that level right now.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:33 am

Whats crack about potential move back to the arena as per the mike amos blog, see link below (apologies if this has already been discussed)
https://mikeamosblog.wordpress.com/2019 ... ssion=true
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by jjljks » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:55 am

Mike Amos's idea of a fans vote and not being at BM for much longer is right up there with David Cameron's Brexit referendum. People would be voting without any proper facts about the financial implications. There are very few facts which are absolute:-
1) There are no solid proposals on the table about the sports village.
2) Darlington Council do not have enough money to run a decent bus service after 6pm to parts of the town, let alone fund a new stadium for us.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by H1987 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:11 am

Sounds like making it up as he's going along, to be honest.

Going back to the Arena would kill this club.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by OnTheTerraces » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:35 am

why would a move back to the arena kill the club?

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by BUSHEAD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:41 am

OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
Always the victim, its never your fault

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:55 am

BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
Yes but the club is run differently now, no owners who think nothing of the club and only what they can make for themselves and would pull the plug at the drop of a hat.Every confidence in DJ and DFCSG to make the correct decisions for the benefit of our club, so no way should we be ruling out a return to the arena.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:59 am

BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
We owned the Arena in those days, now we'd just be tenants, which is completely different.

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