National League Stadia

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BUSHEAD
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by BUSHEAD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:01 am

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
Yes but the club is run differently now, no owners who think nothing of the club and only what they can make for themselves and would pull the plug at the drop of a hat.Every confidence in DJ and DFCSG to make the correct decisions for the benefit of our club, so no way should we be ruling out a return to the arena.

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I too have every confidence in DJ and DFCSG to make the correct decisions for the benefit of our club, so this is exactly why should rule out a return to the arena.
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BUSHEAD
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by BUSHEAD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:02 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
We owned the Arena in those days, now we'd just be tenants, which is completely different.
We owned the stadium for 2 or 3 (?) seasons.

Then we were tenants. It would be no different.
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shildonlad
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:08 am

At least the club would not need to fork out huge sums required to get back the football league or even national league on the infastructure side of things
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

shildonlad
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:09 am

jjljks wrote:Mike Amos's idea of a fans vote and not being at BM for much longer is right up there with David Cameron's Brexit referendum. People would be voting without any proper facts about the financial implications. There are very few facts which are absolute:-
1) There are no solid proposals on the table about the sports village.
2) Darlington Council do not have enough money to run a decent bus service after 6pm to parts of the town, let alone fund a new stadium for us.
Very good comparision


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I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

spen666
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by spen666 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:28 am

shildonlad wrote:At least the club would not need to fork out huge sums required to get back the football league or even national league on the infastructure side of things
Insteadof paying those capital sums, it is almost certainly the case that the club would be paying a much higher rent than at BM.

This is a classic situation like renting or buying a house to live in when you have a relatively limited budget.
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by quakersfan » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:45 am

shildonlad wrote:At least the club would not need to fork out huge sums required to get back the football league or even national league on the infastructure side of things
Little expenditure to move back to Arena, more corporate facilities and you can actually see the pitch properly plus I reckon they will be better landlords than our current one. Stay at BM we need to raise anywhere between £1.5m-£2.5m. Having said that with the crowd last night do we need to move at all. Difficult decisions!

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by H1987 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:30 pm

Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is supposed to be the definition of insanity, isn't it?

That. Never never never again. It'll kill the club.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by shildonlad » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:54 pm

quakersfan wrote:
shildonlad wrote:At least the club would not need to fork out huge sums required to get back the football league or even national league on the infastructure side of things
Little expenditure to move back to Arena, more corporate facilities and you can actually see the pitch properly plus I reckon they will be better landlords than our current one. Stay at BM we need to raise anywhere between £1.5m-£2.5m. Having said that with the crowd last night do we need to move at all. Difficult decisions!
As spen666 says the same scenario as renting property. Why spend a fortune improving somewhere that will never be yours. Rent is seen as dead money but not as bad if you are not paying for improvements
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Yarblockos » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:47 pm

BUSHEAD wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
We owned the Arena in those days, now we'd just be tenants, which is completely different.
We owned the stadium for 2 or 3 (?) seasons.

Then we were tenants. It would be no different.
It would be different. Then we were the only users of the stadium and were responsible for all the bills. These were the running costs of the Arena as posted in 2012:

https://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=19664

Utility costs
Rent/Rates/refuse £51,000
Electric/Gas £50,400
Water/Insurance £63,000
Total £164,400

I assume that as we are tenants using the stadium on matchdays, DMPRC would be paying the bills.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by spen666 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
We owned the Arena in those days, now we'd just be tenants, which is completely different.
We owned the stadium for 2 or 3 (?) seasons.

Then we were tenants. It would be no different.
It would be different. Then we were the only users of the stadium and were responsible for all the bills. These were the running costs of the Arena as posted in 2012:

https://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=19664

Utility costs
Rent/Rates/refuse £51,000
Electric/Gas £50,400
Water/Insurance £63,000
Total £164,400

I assume that as we are tenants using the stadium on matchdays, DMPRC would be paying the bills.
DMPRFC would be expecting a significant amount of rent . Far more than is being paid at DRFC
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BUSHEAD
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by BUSHEAD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:30 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:why would a move back to the arena kill the club?
Remember those 3 administrations we were in ? That.
We owned the Arena in those days, now we'd just be tenants, which is completely different.
We owned the stadium for 2 or 3 (?) seasons.

Then we were tenants. It would be no different.
It would be different. Then we were the only users of the stadium and were responsible for all the bills. These were the running costs of the Arena as posted in 2012:

https://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=19664

Utility costs
Rent/Rates/refuse £51,000
Electric/Gas £50,400
Water/Insurance £63,000
Total £164,400

I assume that as we are tenants using the stadium on matchdays, DMPRC would be paying the bills.
I notice you left out the part of that which said
You will also realise why we couldn't agree on a match day lease as the costs that would have been met by S & S would have been too great.

Tori
Replace S & S with DMPRFC and also increase those bills by 7 years work of inflation.
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Yarblockos
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Yarblockos » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:48 am

BUSHEAD wrote:Replace S & S with DMPRFC and also increase those bills by 7 years work of inflation.
The big difference is that DMPRFC are meeting those bills now. S & S never did, they owned the stadium but did not run it. A match day lease benefits DMPRFC, if they ask too much then we clearly wouldn't move there.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:19 am

Yarblockos wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:Replace S & S with DMPRFC and also increase those bills by 7 years work of inflation.
The big difference is that DMPRFC are meeting those bills now. S & S never did, they owned the stadium but did not run it. A match day lease benefits DMPRFC, if they ask too much then we clearly wouldn't move there.
It doesn't benefit them if primacy of tenure means we take precedence. They'll want some hefty compensation for that in some way shape or form.

Plus we're cashstrapped and committed to paying DRFC for the duration of our lease - now you want us to pay out more money to go to an unpopular, embarrassingly oversized soulless white elephant that removes any goodwilll built up in the town. Presumably we're paying some sort of fee to use Eastbourne to train there. Paying to use three grounds we don't own - hardly sensible when we have no money ourselves.

Why not pay something for Darlington RA's ground and make it a clean sweep in the town?

Would DMPRFC commit to us using the Arena away from matchdays? Or would any arrangement be solely for matchdays? If we can't generate our own money, there's very little point.

There seems to be a weird belief within some pro-Arena supporters we can stroll in, negotiate an amazing preferential deal with very few repercussions to ourselves, and Mowden Park (who have way more leverage than us) will accept our requests, even though it blatantly restricts them and their aspirations.

And that's before I mention the plastic pitch and the BM grant money.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by divas » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:06 am

As part of the deal the Arena will no longer be owned by DMPRFC. Ownership will be transferred to a stadium management company (of which I imagine DMPRFC will have some representation) the running costs and upkeep of then supported by the various activities and rent that would be planned as part of the wider development (including housing). Part of that plan is to have us playing there and paying rent to either play in the Arena itself or on a plot of adjacent land. It’s clear the running costs are too high for DMPRFC to manage just like they were for us and this is seen as the only way the stadium and site will become viable. Essentially DMPRFC will be handing over a couple of millions pound worth of investment to try and safeguard their future in terms of a facility to play at.

Of course whilst the business plan is much more sound there are still no guarantees that the site will generate enough revenue in the longer term and if we were to move there i could only see it (for a number of reasons) being to a piece of land adjacent to the actual Arena stadium that we had a long term lease agreed and paid a rent to support the overall scheme. We’d need to be protected from any financial fall out and would need to be able to move existing infrastructure and create some temporary structures so that we could play there from day one and until such a time we could raise the full funding to build a proper main stand. If we could negotiate that type of deal I think that’s the only way we could consider the SV as an option.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by lo36789 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:40 am

Darlogramps wrote:And that's before I mention the plastic pitch and the BM grant money.
Im pretty sure those supporting Arena & plastic pitch have previously said “can’t stay at BM because it can’t be made eligible for FL”...

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Darlopartisan » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:42 am

divas wrote:As part of the deal the Arena will no longer be owned by DMPRFC. Ownership will be transferred to a stadium management company (of which I imagine DMPRFC will have some representation) the running costs and upkeep of then supported by the various activities and rent that would be planned as part of the wider development (including housing). Part of that plan they have is to have us playing there and paying rent to either play in the Arena itself or on a plot of adjacent land. It’s clear the running costs are too high for DMPRFC to manage just like they were for us and this is seen as the only way the stadium and site will become viable. Essentially DMPRFC will be handing over a couple of millions pound worth of investment to try and safeguard their future in terms of a facility to play at.

Of course whilst the business plan is much more sound there are still no guarantees that the site will generate enough revenue in the longer term and if we were to move there i could only see it (for a number of reasons) being to a piece of land adjacent to the actual Arena stadium that we had a long term lease agreed and paid a rent to support the overall scheme. We’d need to be protected from any financial fall out and would need to be able to move existing infrastructure and create some temporary structures so that we could play there from day one and until such a time we could raise the full funding to build a proper main stand. If we could negotiate that type of deal I think that’s the only way we could consider the SV as an option.

This is sounding more positive, I didn’t realise that this was part of the plan.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by OnTheTerraces » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:15 am

Divas ... you seem to know a lot of information. Shouldn't the club be keeping all these finer details private?

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by al_quaker » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:21 am

JE93 wrote:
Just out of interest, where did you sit at the Arena? For reference. I used to sit at about row 9, block 17 behind the goal. Which was my preference of view, behind the goal, not pitch level but not too high. Which is probably why I'm pretty happy stood midway up the tin shed.
I was about 2/3 the way up on the side near(ish) the half way line. (I can't remember the details as it seems a lifetime ago!). I was in a similar position at Feethams in the East Stand. Which is probably why I hate the views at BM :lol:

And another thing - the pitch at BM seems pretty big, which makes the lack of height even more telling. But maybe that's an optical illusion?

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by divas » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:31 am

OnTheTerraces wrote:Divas ... you seem to know a lot of information. Shouldn't the club be keeping all these finer details private?
All stuff I’ve picked up from public sources and the recent AGM and not all from the football clubs side, plus a little bit of putting 2+2 together. The info is there if you can be bothered to find it J ;)

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:44 am

It was interesting to watch the documentary made by Scott Thornberry linked on this board near to this thread.

This brought back all the memories about The Arena and how we entered into administration 3 times during our stay there.

We couldn’t make it work 3 times! Mowden Park havent been able to do it, despite picking it up for a bargain price and having excess cash to subsidise themselves.

I would suggest that no one can make this failed stadium pay its way - do we really even want to consider going back there after all we’ve been through?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:30 am

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:And that's before I mention the plastic pitch and the BM grant money.
Im pretty sure those supporting Arena & plastic pitch have previously said “can’t stay at BM because it can’t be made eligible for FL”...
I don't think I've ever seen anything categorically ruling out BM as being developed to FL level. It would be very hard no doubt, requiring a lot of money and goodwill from DRFC (among other things). With the pipe and lack of a proper main stand, it would be extremely difficult, no doubt.

But if someone can point out where it's been confirmed by the club BM can never be developed into a FL ground, I'm happy to stand corrected.
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by eddie-rowles » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:50 am

Darlopartisan wrote:
divas wrote:As part of the deal the Arena will no longer be owned by DMPRFC. Ownership will be transferred to a stadium management company (of which I imagine DMPRFC will have some representation) the running costs and upkeep of then supported by the various activities and rent that would be planned as part of the wider development (including housing). Part of that plan they have is to have us playing there and paying rent to either play in the Arena itself or on a plot of adjacent land. It’s clear the running costs are too high for DMPRFC to manage just like they were for us and this is seen as the only way the stadium and site will become viable. Essentially DMPRFC will be handing over a couple of millions pound worth of investment to try and safeguard their future in terms of a facility to play at.

Of course whilst the business plan is much more sound there are still no guarantees that the site will generate enough revenue in the longer term and if we were to move there i could only see it (for a number of reasons) being to a piece of land adjacent to the actual Arena stadium that we had a long term lease agreed and paid a rent to support the overall scheme. We’d need to be protected from any financial fall out and would need to be able to move existing infrastructure and create some temporary structures so that we could play there from day one and until such a time we could raise the full funding to build a proper main stand. If we could negotiate that type of deal I think that’s the only way we could consider the SV as an option.

This is sounding more positive, I didn’t realise that this was part of the plan.
still cannot understand how building another football club next door to an underused rugby stadium would work. Both rugby club( MP not BM) and football club have approx 1000 hardcore fans without both codes agreeing to share (apparently Newport county share with two rugby clubs) and BM also using the stadium, along with womens teams etc it will never work unless Baldrick has a cunning plan

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by OnTheTerraces » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:53 am

isnt there an issue with the soil meaning it will cost a lot to build the new stands due needing foundations deeper than a football owners pockets ... was in the programme i think.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by spen666 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:59 am

eddie-rowles wrote:
Darlopartisan wrote:
divas wrote:As part of the deal the Arena will no longer be owned by DMPRFC. Ownership will be transferred to a stadium management company (of which I imagine DMPRFC will have some representation) the running costs and upkeep of then supported by the various activities and rent that would be planned as part of the wider development (including housing). Part of that plan they have is to have us playing there and paying rent to either play in the Arena itself or on a plot of adjacent land. It’s clear the running costs are too high for DMPRFC to manage just like they were for us and this is seen as the only way the stadium and site will become viable. Essentially DMPRFC will be handing over a couple of millions pound worth of investment to try and safeguard their future in terms of a facility to play at.

Of course whilst the business plan is much more sound there are still no guarantees that the site will generate enough revenue in the longer term and if we were to move there i could only see it (for a number of reasons) being to a piece of land adjacent to the actual Arena stadium that we had a long term lease agreed and paid a rent to support the overall scheme. We’d need to be protected from any financial fall out and would need to be able to move existing infrastructure and create some temporary structures so that we could play there from day one and until such a time we could raise the full funding to build a proper main stand. If we could negotiate that type of deal I think that’s the only way we could consider the SV as an option.

This is sounding more positive, I didn’t realise that this was part of the plan.
still cannot understand how building another football club next door to an underused rugby stadium would work. Both rugby club( MP not BM) and football club have approx 1000 hardcore fans without both codes agreeing to share (apparently Newport county share with two rugby clubs) and BM also using the stadium, along with womens teams etc it will never work unless Baldrick has a cunning plan

My understanding is that the rules on primacy & ground sharing from a Rugby perspective have changed. Rugby clubs like Newport that entered into agreements before the rules on primacy changed are allowed to continue. Rugby Clubs entering into new agreements must have primacy of fixtures.
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divas
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Re: National League Stadia

Post by divas » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:22 am

Primacy of tenure is a league specific requirement not governing body/code requirement

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by Vodka_Vic » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:42 am

OnTheTerraces wrote:isnt there an issue with the soil meaning it will cost a lot to build the new stands due needing foundations deeper than a football owners pockets ... was in the programme i think.
No. What it said was that to increase BM capacity to FL standard we will have to build vertically meaning that the foundations will have to be redone as they have only been designed for a single tier stand.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by bigdavethemaddog » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:08 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
OnTheTerraces wrote:isnt there an issue with the soil meaning it will cost a lot to build the new stands due needing foundations deeper than a football owners pockets ... was in the programme i think.
No. What it said was that to increase BM capacity to FL standard we will have to build vertically meaning that the foundations will have to be redone as they have only been designed for a single tier stand.
its because of the water pipe that runs across the pitch.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by dfc4me » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:21 pm

At the AGM “soft soil” was mentioned as a factor but it could be overcome. There was also a suggested way that BM could be made up to FL standard despite the water pipe but it was a really messy, hitch-porch of a ground and meant demolition of both seats and tin shed and rebuilding to go further back. Whether the rugby club would agree is a different question.

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Darlopartisan wrote:Chesterfield must of spent a few bob.
I think Tesco helped out regarding funds.. Every little helps I suppose Image

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Re: National League Stadia

Post by JE93 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:36 pm

Hednesford FC, Keys Park ground up for sale. Gawd what we wouldn't give for a ground like that.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial- ... otoIndex=0

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