Darlington V Chorley

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Seventynine » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:58 pm

Jeff Winter ..that dick head ..remember him darlo fans.. i do with a passion ..never around since when i wonder ? i hope hes well,,,,, as a disclaimer due to the knobs who dont want brexit and who have no clue what im on about .
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlo_CR » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:01 pm

CrazyDarlo wrote:No Alan White yesterday?
Alan was doing part of his UEFA coaching badge at Sheffield United’s training ground.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Seventynine » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:05 pm

Darlo_CR wrote:
CrazyDarlo wrote:No Alan White yesterday?
Alan was doing part of his UEFA coaching badges at Sheffield United’s training ground.
and that means ......

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlo_CR » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:08 pm

Seventynine wrote:
Darlo_CR wrote:
CrazyDarlo wrote:No Alan White yesterday?
Alan was doing part of his UEFA coaching badges at Sheffield United’s training ground.
and that means ......
You need your coaching badges to coach, I’m not sure whether he has the one he needs to manage the youth team or whether he’s just developing his skills.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Seventynine » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:15 pm

Darlo_CR wrote:
Seventynine wrote:
Darlo_CR wrote:
CrazyDarlo wrote:No Alan White yesterday?
Alan was doing part of his UEFA coaching badges at Sheffield United’s training ground.
and that means ......
You need your coaching badges to coach, I’m not sure whether he has the one he needs to manage the youth team or whether he’s just developing his skills.
there not really at that edge to be honest , good point though , what badges do they have ...at the moment id give the them ...a badgers ;)

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:55 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I was surprised that the linesman fired back, but it wasn't him that started the confrontation and it wasn't him that kept going.
The officials shouldn't answer back, simple as that. He gets well paid to do what he does and he should be professional enough to bite his tongue.
The wider point is fans shouldn't be hurling abuse at the officials in the first place. Then there's no issue to start with.

I remember at the Chester game, after their third goal, about a dozen of our fans followed the linesman up and down the pitch for about five or ten minutes, screaming obscenities.

I've got no issue at all with officials biting back at fans. Too many fans are willing to dish it out to opposition fans, officials and players but cry foul when they get some back. Classic bully boy behaviour.
Officials are always going to get stick, rightly or wrongly.
There's a difference between getting stick and getting abuse. And abuse happens all too regularly because officials are seen as fair game - as you've demonstrated here. You're essentially saying it's a hazard of the job and they just should take it. I'm sorry but that's a terrible attitude to take.

Fans make a choice to hurl abuse at officials who are simply doing their job, regardless of how well you think they're doing it. The blame isn't on the linesmen who bite back - it's on the fans who initiate it by giving abuse. And for the purposes of clarity, I'm speaking generally - not on this specific incident from yesterday.

You've also said laughing off abuse is better than telling fans to fuck off. I'd agree - but what do you have to say to the fans who are throwing the abuse in the first place? You're too intent on blaming officials and ignoring the reasons why they've reacted.

Would also point out Jeff Winter was a high level referee with many years of experience. He'll have heard it all before. Officials at our level are much less experienced, and will be doing it part-time.
Suggest you read divas reply earlier up the thread.
Also, the Winter incident was long before he was anywhere near the top level.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlo Since 68 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:08 pm

polam lane wrote:The best three referees I've seen over the decades for non posturing and a cool head were:

Gurnam Singh
Roger Kirkpatrick
Jeff Winter

Subjective I know, but I've seen the neck end of a thousand games over several decades.

Of the current crop - Andy Davies lets the game flow and uses his whistle sparingly.

Roger Kilpatrick -- now theres a blast from the past. One of the best referees I have seen over the decades of watching Darlo.
Always enjoyed his performances at Feethams. Refereed with a smile on his face.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:44 pm

divas wrote:That’s not how it started though, it started innocuously enough but then crossed a line. It only crossed a line as the linesman retaliated.
You are wrong!

Unless of course there were two separate incidents.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by divas » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:45 pm

The first incident (I assume it was the first) was a bloke in front of me questioning why the ref had booked 4 of our players for nothing. Said bloke isn’t one to throw abuse at officials

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:46 pm

loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote: The officials shouldn't answer back, simple as that. He gets well paid to do what he does and he should be professional enough to bite his tongue.
The wider point is fans shouldn't be hurling abuse at the officials in the first place. Then there's no issue to start with.

I remember at the Chester game, after their third goal, about a dozen of our fans followed the linesman up and down the pitch for about five or ten minutes, screaming obscenities.

I've got no issue at all with officials biting back at fans. Too many fans are willing to dish it out to opposition fans, officials and players but cry foul when they get some back. Classic bully boy behaviour.
Officials are always going to get stick, rightly or wrongly.
There's a difference between getting stick and getting abuse. And abuse happens all too regularly because officials are seen as fair game - as you've demonstrated here. You're essentially saying it's a hazard of the job and they just should take it. I'm sorry but that's a terrible attitude to take.

Fans make a choice to hurl abuse at officials who are simply doing their job, regardless of how well you think they're doing it. The blame isn't on the linesmen who bite back - it's on the fans who initiate it by giving abuse. And for the purposes of clarity, I'm speaking generally - not on this specific incident from yesterday.

You've also said laughing off abuse is better than telling fans to fuck off. I'd agree - but what do you have to say to the fans who are throwing the abuse in the first place? You're too intent on blaming officials and ignoring the reasons why they've reacted.

Would also point out Jeff Winter was a high level referee with many years of experience. He'll have heard it all before. Officials at our level are much less experienced, and will be doing it part-time.
Suggest you read divas reply earlier up the thread.
Also, the Winter incident was long before he was anywhere near the top level.
And I suggest you read the bit of my post where I said I was talking generally.

It's also fair to point out Divas' version of events is being disputed by Theoriginalfatcat, who also says he witnessed the abuse. But you ignored that because it doesn't fit your view - which is that the lino was asking for it.

You said officials receiving abuse is all part and parcel of their job and they should just take it. It isn't and they shouldn't. It's actually appalling there are people like you who've normalised this. Not only are you being an apologist for those hurling abuse, you're actively blaming officials for it. Perhaps you enjoy seeing officials being sworn at.

Telling someone who's doing their job to "F*** off, you f*****g c**t" isn't normal or acceptable, regardless of whether they're doing a good job or not.

If that happened in any other line of work, the abuser would face repercussions. Yet because it's in a football ground, people accept it (including you by your own admission in this thread). It's really telling that in your posts in this thread, you've not yet said fans who initiate abuse are in the wrong. And again, for the sake of clarity I'm talking generally.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:56 pm

divas wrote:The first incident (I assume it was the first) was a bloke in front of me questioning why the ref had booked 4 of our players for nothing. Said bloke isn’t one to throw abuse at officials
Okay.

Look at Feethams66 post further up. The ongoing incident/situation we are on about happened right at the start of the match, maybe 2 or 3 minutes in. The linesman at this stage of the match had made probably only one decision.

I would agree with Loanstar though, it would be better to diffuse the situation-two wrongs don’t make a right and all that...
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:00 pm

I could quite easily say that divas version of events doesn’t fit with what your view either.
End of conversation anyway, we disagree and I really can’t be chewed with another one of your endless post nit picking threads.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by divas » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:02 pm

Fair enough I didn’t witness that. The “incident” I was referring to was midway through the second half, still no need for the linesman’s response despite something happening earlier when it was a fair point

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:19 pm

loan_star wrote:I could quite easily say that divas version of events doesn’t fit with what your view either.
End of conversation anyway, we disagree and I really can’t be chewed with another one of your endless post nit picking threads.
Stop playing dumb - I've not spoken once about the incident at the game. I'm quite clearly talking about the abuse of officials generally so Divas' posts make no difference to my point either way.

My issue is people like you normalising the abuse of referees and officials. ("Officials are always going to get stick")

The fact is, clearly, you think it's acceptable to hurl abuse at referees. You're even finding justifications for it. Speaks volumes for your spinelessness. My guess is you probably enjoy seeing it happening, and probably indulge in it yourself. It's quite easy to see how this abuse becomes normalised.

You're usually not fussed about dragging a thread out - the fact you're running away shows you can't justify your opinions.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:21 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
divas wrote:The first incident (I assume it was the first) was a bloke in front of me questioning why the ref had booked 4 of our players for nothing. Said bloke isn’t one to throw abuse at officials
Okay.

Look at Feethams66 post further up. The ongoing incident/situation we are on about happened right at the start of the match, maybe 2 or 3 minutes in. The linesman at this stage of the match had made probably only one decision.

I would agree with Loanstar though, it would be better to diffuse the situation-two wrongs don’t make a right and all that...
That’s why I mentioned the Jeff Winter incident. Officials, and players for that matter, shouldn’t get verbal abuse. However if it does happen then they need to act professionally and not react, or do so in a way that diffuses the situation or makes the abusers look stupid, like Winter did.
This particular linesman though has done this before, he did it in the Blyth home and away games this season. As was pointed out on Twitter by another Darlo fan, he just needs to say that to the wrong person and it could get out of hand. I’m sure I read somewhere that there was an occasion when he offered someone out in the car park after a game, could be wrong on that though!

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:I could quite easily say that divas version of events doesn’t fit with what your view either.
End of conversation anyway, we disagree and I really can’t be chewed with another one of your endless post nit picking threads.
Stop playing dumb - I've not spoken once about the incident at the game. I'm quite clearly talking about the abuse of officials generally so Divas' posts make no difference to my point either way.

My issue is people like you normalising the abuse of referees and officials. ("Officials are always going to get stick")

The fact is, clearly, you think it's acceptable to hurl abuse at referees. You're even finding justifications for it. Speaks volumes for your spinelessness. My guess is you probably enjoy seeing it happening, and probably indulge in it yourself.

Add the fact you've sought reasons to blame officials, and not once admitted fans are in the wrong for initiating abuse, it paints quite a picture about how this kind of abuse has become normalised.
Now who’s being abusive! :lol:

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:24 pm

So much for "end of conversation". Lasted all of 20 minutes.

Still don't see you condemning people who hurl abuse at officials.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:29 pm

Bizarrely I agree with both Darlogramps and Loanstar on this.

I don’t want to hear abuse (not banter) being shouted to the officials, in this case it was bang out of order as this incident was right at the start of the match - however I don’t want to hear bad language coming back from the linesman either, he should know better.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:30 pm

You were abusive to me so it would have been wrong to let it pass without comment.
Suggest you practice as you preach and not be abusive to other board users since there’s no difference between that and abusing officials and players.
And perhaps if you read my reply to theoriginalfatcat you would see that I said officials and players shouldn’t be subject to abuse.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:38 pm

loan_star wrote:You were abusive to me so it would have been wrong to let it pass without comment.
Suggest you practice as you preach and not be abusive to other board users since there’s no difference between that and abusing officials and players.
And perhaps if you read my reply to theoriginalfatcat you would see that I said officials and players shouldn’t be subject to abuse.
Ah, the old deflection tactics again. You've received no abuse in this thread. Your own weak arguments have been exposed, so now you're trying to play the victim. Classic bully boy behaviour.

Still, at least you've finally and sensibly admitted officials shouldn't receive abuse. Next step is for you to stop offering excuses and actually call out those who initiate it.

P.S. It's now two posts since you declared "end of conversation". Not keeping your word on that one.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:44 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:You were abusive to me so it would have been wrong to let it pass without comment.
Suggest you practice as you preach and not be abusive to other board users since there’s no difference between that and abusing officials and players.
And perhaps if you read my reply to theoriginalfatcat you would see that I said officials and players shouldn’t be subject to abuse.
Ah, the old deflection tactics again. You've received no abuse in this thread. Your own weak arguments have been exposed, so now you're trying to play the victim. Classic bully boy behaviour.

Still, at least you've finally and sensibly admitted officials shouldn't receive abuse. Next step is for you to stop offering excuses and actually call out those who initiate it.
So saying someone is dumb and spineless isn’t abuse? Typical darlogramps bullyboy behaviour as usual.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:55 pm

I said you were playing dumb. Not the same as saying you're actually dumb. Playing dumb suggests you're capable of better arguments but are choosing to use bad logic to suit your purposes (I.E. ignoring the fact I was speaking generally).

And no, saying someone is demonstrating spinelessness isn't abusive. Certainly not on a par with calling referees "f******g c***s" as you seem to think it is. Claiming you're being abused because I said you demonstrated spinelessness is fairly desperate and indicated you knew your argument was in trouble.

Anyway this thread is getting sidetracked by you trying to point score (three posts and counting since you declared "end of conversation"). Let's keep this on topic.

Broadly we actually agree - abuse of referees shouldn't happen. But for some reason it's become normalised in football. I dispute that it's part and parcel of the game, and considering the dogs abuse they get, you can't blame officials for snapping back- particularly when they're working in non-league and not full-time.

Let's remember that non-league is different in that officials will hear every word directed at them. Hard not to be affected.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:03 am

Pointscoring? You are the master of that.
And how is it just being sidetracked by me? It takes two to tango as they say.
The fact of the matter is an official or player who is subject to abuse should act professionally and not react. Alan White got rightly criticised for having a go at some fans not so long ago and fans who abused board members were rightly banned from the ground. There is no difference between White having a pop at fans and a linesman doing the same.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:11 am

loan_star wrote:
The fact of the matter is an official or player who is subject to abuse should act professionally and not react.
Maybe, but if you're doing your job and getting horrendous, foul abuse for it, simply because you're not doing what one set of supporters wants, it's easier said than done to bite your tongue. Particularly when you're not a full-time, professional referee.

All I'm saying is, considering the shite they have to take every game, you can't blame officials when they do bite back. If fans didn't abuse them in the first place, there'd be no retaliation. That's the bottom line. And in non-league, you'll hear just about every word of it, because of how close fans are to the pitch.

Yet for some reason, in football, calling officials names, swearing at them etc is accepted and gets on egged on by other fans. It's nonsensical but happens at every match.
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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by loan_star » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:19 am

Unfortunately it’s how people are. You just have to listen to what some of our own players have to put up with both at the match and on forums, Henshall and Ainge being two recent targets. It doesn’t matter how bad they may have played, if our own players are going to suffer abuse then an official with no connection to the club is going to get the same or worse off these same people. Then we have the comments made towards Wright and White. It’s all wrong.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by lo36789 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:49 am

loan_star wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I was surprised that the linesman fired back, but it wasn't him that started the confrontation and it wasn't him that kept going.
The officials shouldn't answer back, simple as that. He gets well paid to do what he does and he should be professional enough to bite his tongue.
Well paid...they get £34 and was in all likelihood out of the house for 8 to 10 hours including travel.

The things shouted aren't normal comments, I can vouch for that. Gone are the days of just being shouted at in disagreement to decisions it is pretty standard to have people wish your children, family and your dead of various ailments from cancer to car crashes, or to make physical threats against said match official for after the game...

Now imagine the match official who's children and wife died in a car crash when he was at a game once, and the shouts he has to endure on a matchday.

It feels like it has become normalised. Turn up on a Saturday throw verbal abuse at a stranger go home to your kids proud of yourself...I do find it utterly weird from adults.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by spen666 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:22 am

lo36789 wrote:
loan_star wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I was surprised that the linesman fired back, but it wasn't him that started the confrontation and it wasn't him that kept going.
The officials shouldn't answer back, simple as that. He gets well paid to do what he does and he should be professional enough to bite his tongue.
Well paid...they get £34 and was in all likelihood out of the house for 8 to 10 hours including travel.

The things shouted aren't normal comments, I can vouch for that. Gone are the days of just being shouted at in disagreement to decisions it is pretty standard to have people wish your children, family and your dead of various ailments from cancer to car crashes, or to make physical threats against said match official for after the game...

Now imagine the match official who's children and wife died in a car crash when he was at a game once, and the shouts he has to endure on a matchday.

It feels like it has become normalised. Turn up on a Saturday throw verbal abuse at a stranger go home to your kids proud of yourself...I do find it utterly weird from adults.

The amount someone is paid is irrelevant to the sort of vile abuse directed towards some officials and even players etc by so called fans.

It sadly happens at many (if not most) clubs these days and is a sad reflection on society at large. Its even sadder when people try to justify it, mainly because its a fellow fan of their club, or it was done by someone towards a rival club.

witty banter or humour at football seems to have been replaced by vile abuse

I couldn't agree more with Lo's last paragraph.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Quaker85 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:36 am

The amount of abuse is relevant to pay Spen. Our nationally agreed job evaluation framework includes and element designed to remunerate employees exposed to this behavior.

Perhaps the linesman need a better union.


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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by OnTheTerraces » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:41 am

was a much improved performance on Saturday, seemed to be a lot more running and I enjoyed it.

Shame we couldn't hang on. Chorley changed the system at half time to counter act our 523 system and we were getting over run.

Shame we couldn't take our chances and we were lucky not to lose it at the death.

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Re: Darlington V Chorley

Post by Quaker85 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:46 am

OnTheTerraces wrote:was a much improved performance on Saturday, seemed to be a lot more running and I enjoyed it.

Shame we couldn't hang on. Chorley changed the system at half time to counter act our 523 system and we were getting over run.

Shame we couldn't take our chances and we were lucky not to lose it at the death.
Combination of that and our front two running out of steam. Plus Henshall came on Image


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