Darlington V Stockport

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loan_star
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by loan_star » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:39 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm
I think a lot of the damage to support for the club and income set in during the earlier part of the season when we won just 2 out of 12 League and Cup games at BM. Up until the end of October TM had a goalscorer on the books in Reece Styche along with all of his summer signings and Syers (although he chose not to use him very much). There was no momentum and enthusiasm built up and the home results and performances over an extended period was very damaging during a period when TW could call on what he felt was a strong squad that he had put together.
The problem with Syers is that he's neither a midfielder or a forward and any formation has to be built around him. He doesn't suit a 442 or a 433 so it has to be a 4312 or something similar. Gray had problems fitting him in too. Wright has to take a lot of the blame for where we are but things werent perfect before he arrived either so we were always going to be in a phase of rebuilding. We aren't a million miles away but need 3 older heads in there in give us some backbone.

Quakerlad
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by Quakerlad » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:40 pm

Well Tommy thinks “we are a good team”......that’s a bit worrying!

Hope he doesn’t say next something like “ with a couple of additions next season we will be even better” !

We need about 6 strong signings, mentally and physically, at least, and really hope he is not the one to make them!

Beano
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by Beano » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:32 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:39 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm
I think a lot of the damage to support for the club and income set in during the earlier part of the season when we won just 2 out of 12 League and Cup games at BM. Up until the end of October TM had a goalscorer on the books in Reece Styche along with all of his summer signings and Syers (although he chose not to use him very much). There was no momentum and enthusiasm built up and the home results and performances over an extended period was very damaging during a period when TW could call on what he felt was a strong squad that he had put together.
The problem with Syers is that he's neither a midfielder or a forward and any formation has to be built around him. He doesn't suit a 442 or a 433 so it has to be a 4312 or something similar. Gray had problems fitting him in too. Wright has to take a lot of the blame for where we are but things werent perfect before he arrived either so we were always going to be in a phase of rebuilding. We aren't a million miles away but need 3 older heads in there in give us some backbone.
That is fair comment loan_star, but when paired with the right striker would could hold it up (Styche and Syers worked particularly well as a pairing) he was brilliant. But, as you correctly say, Syers was never a midfielder.

50 years
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by 50 years » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:56 pm

Andy P you did a fantastic job in getting the singing going in the crowd, may be started the singing too early before the start if your voice can't last but great support bud well done to you and the other vocal supporters 👍

AndyPark
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by AndyPark » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:21 pm

Aye think we started a little early like, but hey ho. We got a good 45 mins non stop going in the first half :lol:

Onto the next one.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:36 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:42 am
You forgot to mention the obvious impact that TW's very poor use of the budget and his poor organisation, motivation, leadership and tactics had in this awful season.
We've got you for that.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by AndyPark » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:04 am

On that first half showing, I would say we were the better team. Again, we just couldn't find that final touch in the box. The second half, it was all Stockport in my opinion - They didn't really have to step up the pace either, we just looked sloppy.

God knows what gets said at HT though, because once again they've come out and looked all over the place.

Still think that if we had a Styche/Nelson up top for a full season - We would be absolutely nowhere near a relegation battle.
Last edited by AndyPark on Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:33 am

Andy, apparently Gannon himself said the same thing after the Chester game which he was scouting at. Priority has to be to find a striker. Look at Tamworth last year, they went down from not replacing Styche.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by D_F_C » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:59 am

loan_star wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:39 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm
I think a lot of the damage to support for the club and income set in during the earlier part of the season when we won just 2 out of 12 League and Cup games at BM. Up until the end of October TM had a goalscorer on the books in Reece Styche along with all of his summer signings and Syers (although he chose not to use him very much). There was no momentum and enthusiasm built up and the home results and performances over an extended period was very damaging during a period when TW could call on what he felt was a strong squad that he had put together.
The problem with Syers is that he's neither a midfielder or a forward and any formation has to be built around him. He doesn't suit a 442 or a 433 so it has to be a 4312 or something similar. Gray had problems fitting him in too. Wright has to take a lot of the blame for where we are but things werent perfect before he arrived either so we were always going to be in a phase of rebuilding. We aren't a million miles away but need 3 older heads in there in give us some backbone.
Whilst I agree with what you say, why did he then sign Nicholson. Nicholson isn't a striker or midfielder or wideman. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but you have to compensate the formation to fit him in

LoidLucan
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:55 pm

We might get to see how Farsley Celtic manage to fit Syers in as a midfielder next season as they are top of the League (although South Shields climbed 3 points closer to them after N Ferriby's results were expunged). Syers has scored 7 goals for them since joining in December and is a man of the match regular.

JE93
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by JE93 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:02 pm

Have just watched Tommy's interview from the weekend. Hard to really know what to make of anything he says anymore. Does he really believe we're a good team, or is he just saying anything right now to keep the wolves from the door, hoping luck will bring him some form. I think we have some good players, but we are certainly not a good team.

Problem is, we're bad in both boxes at the moment. There is no doubt we are more of a 'footballing' side than we were under Gray. We knock the ball about quite nicely at times, but rarely do we look like crafting a clear goal scoring opportunity. It reminds me of when we beat Kidderminster at Home 3-0, they played lovely football that day, but other than a half appeal for a penalty they never looked like threatening our goal). While at the other end we are poor, we concede cheap goals. As for set pieces, we don't particularly cope well with set pieces at either end. We don't create or score much from them, and they are usually where we switch off and concede (Perhaps this is a result of our lack of height through the side).

There has been too much change in system this year, by my reckoning we have started games with all of the following formations this season:
- 4-4-2
- 4-2-3-1
- 5-3-2
- 3-4-3
- 4-3-3
We haven't particularly mastered any of them and I don't think signings have been particularly focused on adapting us to play a particular system.

While Tommy has lost some key players this season which has made it difficult for him, its his coaching side that worries me most. We haven't looked organised this season, if you're finding it tough the first thing you should do is get organised and be hard to beat. That comes from repetition in training, making players form up and play out scenario's over and over again till it becomes second nature. It's not fun but you have to earn the opportunity to play football.

As I said above I think we have the building blocks of a decent team for next season in either a 4-2-3-1 or 5-3-2 formation. We need to sort out:
1) the Goalkeeping situation, Maddison is too expensive to have as a substitute, he either has to be coaches into the No.1 spot or be replaced.
2) I don't think Ainge and Galbraith as a CB pairing is the best, if both are going to play I think we're better with 3 at the back, add to that the quality Will Smith has brought to the team I think it probable we could source this person on loan.
3) We need a left sided player who produces more regularly than Henshall.
4) We need a CM in the Ravenhill mold, it may be Holness but time will tell.
5) Finally we need to replace Styche, always hard to find a goal scorer, but whether its bringing someone up from northern league level and giving them a chance, taking someone dropping out of the leagues above, or taking someone on loan (risk is if they do well they'll more than likely be recalled by their parent club and tested at a higher level).

For me this means moving on:
Henshall
Glover
Burn

Keeping:
Maddision
Trotman
Ainge
Galbraith
Elliott
Nicholson
Wheatley
Holness (?)
Thompson
Kneeshaw

Sign on contract:
An experienced ball winning CM (maybe Holness)

Loans:
Striker
R / L Winger
Centre Back
Keeper
Left Back

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:57 pm

JE93 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:02 pm
5) Finally we need to replace Styche, always hard to find a goal scorer, but whether its bringing someone up from northern league level and giving them a chance, taking someone dropping out of the leagues above, or taking someone on loan (risk is if they do well they'll more than likely be recalled by their parent club and tested at a higher level).
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you wrote, this is the biggest area for me we need to make a signing and should be number one.

Without Styche/Nelson we are probably a bottom 3 side this season or a to closer to being, we need a striker who can win us a game when it's a tight match. We won't escape the drop without one next year. Saturday was an obvious scenario, we were decent enough to a point but didn't have a talisman striker, Styche was/is that, he scored a goal every 2 games even in a poor team. We didn't lay a glove on them even when we were on top of the game.

Losing Styche has been our biggest problem, Divas has said it before we spent everything in the summer (a good chunk wasted) and then had to lose the one valuable asset we had. I have a little sympathy for Wright on that front but the issue was his own real making with wasted cash in the summer.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:09 pm

One thing that occurred to me about TW in his managerial career is that he has never had the benefit of working under a seasoned, experienced older head in management. He was 29 when he went to Corby as joint manager in 2013 and then became sole manager for the following season 2014/15. He took them up to National North, but they were relegated and he was sacked after a terrible start to the 2016/17 season before moving on to Nuneaton.

Of course when we came in for him, he was struggling with things at Nuneaton and just above the relegation places and we paired him with AW as assistant, someone who was inexperienced in management. It looks to me like he has had to learn the ropes himself from a young age as a manager perhaps without the help and guidance from another experienced coach.... he was a lot younger than most when they go into it. Maybe this is reflected in some of the issues that have emerged here in building and organising a side. And these issues have surfaced at each of his clubs.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:54 pm

D_F_C wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:39 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm
I think a lot of the damage to support for the club and income set in during the earlier part of the season when we won just 2 out of 12 League and Cup games at BM. Up until the end of October TM had a goalscorer on the books in Reece Styche along with all of his summer signings and Syers (although he chose not to use him very much). There was no momentum and enthusiasm built up and the home results and performances over an extended period was very damaging during a period when TW could call on what he felt was a strong squad that he had put together.
The problem with Syers is that he's neither a midfielder or a forward and any formation has to be built around him. He doesn't suit a 442 or a 433 so it has to be a 4312 or something similar. Gray had problems fitting him in too. Wright has to take a lot of the blame for where we are but things werent perfect before he arrived either so we were always going to be in a phase of rebuilding. We aren't a million miles away but need 3 older heads in there in give us some backbone.
Whilst I agree with what you say, why did he then sign Nicholson. Nicholson isn't a striker or midfielder or wideman. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but you have to compensate the formation to fit him in
I'm not gonna comment on this ridiculous post..ie regarding Nicholson

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loan_star
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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by loan_star » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:53 pm

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:54 pm
D_F_C wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:39 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm
I think a lot of the damage to support for the club and income set in during the earlier part of the season when we won just 2 out of 12 League and Cup games at BM. Up until the end of October TM had a goalscorer on the books in Reece Styche along with all of his summer signings and Syers (although he chose not to use him very much). There was no momentum and enthusiasm built up and the home results and performances over an extended period was very damaging during a period when TW could call on what he felt was a strong squad that he had put together.
The problem with Syers is that he's neither a midfielder or a forward and any formation has to be built around him. He doesn't suit a 442 or a 433 so it has to be a 4312 or something similar. Gray had problems fitting him in too. Wright has to take a lot of the blame for where we are but things werent perfect before he arrived either so we were always going to be in a phase of rebuilding. We aren't a million miles away but need 3 older heads in there in give us some backbone.
Whilst I agree with what you say, why did he then sign Nicholson. Nicholson isn't a striker or midfielder or wideman. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but you have to compensate the formation to fit him in
I'm not gonna comment on this ridiculous post..ie regarding Nicholson

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Nicholson is more than capable of playing as a winger but prefers playing central. Just like Thompson can play either if needed.
Syers isnt quick enough to play as a winger so needs to play either in the hole or as a out and out forward.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:03 pm

Very good player imo and will get even better.Got to give Tommy some credit here.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by grimsbyquaker » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:24 pm

Good shout Ron. Nicholson is a class act. Maybe he’s best in a Syers type role, I’m not totally sure. I also like Elliott. As has been said though we need, in this league, some spoilers to break up play, rough up opposition forwards and provide cover while our good attacking players raid forwards. (Of course good midfielders can do all of the above but in that case they wouldn’t be playing down at this level.
I think we need to start with Taylor up front with either HS or WK on Saturday. He looks a handful

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:02 pm

grimsbyquaker wrote:Good shout Ron. Nicholson is a class act. Maybe he’s best in a Syers type role, I’m not totally sure. I also like Elliott. As has been said though we need, in this league, some spoilers to break up play, rough up opposition forwards and provide cover while our good attacking players raid forwards. (Of course good midfielders can do all of the above but in that case they wouldn’t be playing down at this level.
I think we need to start with Taylor up front with either HS or WK on Saturday. He looks a handful
Elliott is improving without a doubt Nick and got to admit , like Nicholson, looking like we may see the best of him next season.3 or 4 new lads of the Browney/Leon/Turnbull mentality is what we need for next season plus a Reece Styche/Nelson up front.

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by D_F_C » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:21 am

loan_star wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:53 pm
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:54 pm
D_F_C wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:39 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:26 pm
I think a lot of the damage to support for the club and income set in during the earlier part of the season when we won just 2 out of 12 League and Cup games at BM. Up until the end of October TM had a goalscorer on the books in Reece Styche along with all of his summer signings and Syers (although he chose not to use him very much). There was no momentum and enthusiasm built up and the home results and performances over an extended period was very damaging during a period when TW could call on what he felt was a strong squad that he had put together.
The problem with Syers is that he's neither a midfielder or a forward and any formation has to be built around him. He doesn't suit a 442 or a 433 so it has to be a 4312 or something similar. Gray had problems fitting him in too. Wright has to take a lot of the blame for where we are but things werent perfect before he arrived either so we were always going to be in a phase of rebuilding. We aren't a million miles away but need 3 older heads in there in give us some backbone.
Whilst I agree with what you say, why did he then sign Nicholson. Nicholson isn't a striker or midfielder or wideman. I'm not sure exactly what he is, but you have to compensate the formation to fit him in
I'm not gonna comment on this ridiculous post..ie regarding Nicholson

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Nicholson is more than capable of playing as a winger but prefers playing central. Just like Thompson can play either if needed.
Syers isnt quick enough to play as a winger so needs to play either in the hole or as a out and out forward.
I don't think playing wide really suits him, certainly not wide of a 4. He's defo not a striker or CM, so to be he either plays the number 10 role or wide of a 3 man attack

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Re: Darlington V Stockport

Post by jjljks » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:49 am

Just watched the highlights and seems like a decent first 40 minutes then let down by defending from set pieces plus losing Trotman to second yellow card early on 2nd half. TW & AW need to get defence together to sort out their set pieces, although TBH we have not had a settled back line this year and it really shows. Can't be easy shipping loanees in, but Turner, Jackson and Palmer all showed promise and would be happy if we could sign them on a contract next year. Kneeshaw and Holness will have to do better.

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