Gateshead

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H1987
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Gateshead

Post by H1987 » Thu May 02, 2019 11:26 am

Interested to see how this pans out. Surely the fans are jumping ship a bit too early? Nothing is settled.

They're a mess, but I can't see the FA giving the owners permission to move the club. What if he then abandons it, and then Gateshead FC dies because the fans chucked their money into another entity? It all seems a bit premature, and i'm dubious that they have the means to fund their way back to this level like we have. They just don't have that many fans.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/f ... l-16212565

tdk1
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Re: Gateshead

Post by tdk1 » Thu May 02, 2019 11:41 am

I read they are seeking voluntary relegation of the current club. Will that mean a reprieve for aldershot then? I guess it won't affect the make up of nln?

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Re: Gateshead

Post by ex-exile » Thu May 02, 2019 11:53 am

All they need now is Martin Grey to take them up the leagues

onewayup
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Re: Gateshead

Post by onewayup » Thu May 02, 2019 1:27 pm

Just another club raped of its heritage, by another unscrupulous owner, we know the pain those supporters are going through,

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Lawman3
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Re: Gateshead

Post by Lawman3 » Thu May 02, 2019 2:12 pm

One of the great football traditions is Gateshead going bust. They then tend to be replaced by a team from South Shields moving to Gateshead and changing it's name.
Never argue with an idiot: The best possible outcome is that you win an argument with an idiot.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu May 02, 2019 2:36 pm

I have some sympathy with the Gateshead fans as the club owners seem to be, well not fit for purpose.

Shame for them as they had so many good owners who have thrown money at trying to get them into the league and having a team playing above it's own financial level. I am not sure the FA will give them any leniency as they are not a phoenix club so will need to start at the very bottom, the FA are not renowned for showing compassion to honest supporters as we know.

It's a lesson to us as well in regards to removing the 15% limit in terms of ownership of our club, the first benefactor might be good, the 2nd might be good the 3rd could be one of these charlatans. Once you have ownership over you can't take it back because you don't like the owner or they have sold their share to someone else.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: Gateshead

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Thu May 02, 2019 3:26 pm

ex-exile wrote:All they need now is Martin Grey to take them up the leagues
Gray

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LoidLucan
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Re: Gateshead

Post by LoidLucan » Thu May 02, 2019 7:46 pm

What puzzles me is why this bunch of shysters targeted Gateshead. You're talking about a club with a few hundred fans with no ground of their own, no land and no assets apart from a few players who have now gone. I can't see what their angle was as it was hardly a good target for asset stripping and making a quick buck. All they seem to have done is destroyed the club as it now has no players, no staff and no home.

I see the fans have set up a funding page for the new club that will be set up with an initial target of £50,000.

It's sad to see what's happened but it is also an example of a club that relied purely on individual benefactors to fund it to a high level in the pyramid. But they ran out of them. And once they became a target for the bad guys who were never going to chuck money down a black hole, it was always going to end in tears. There are other clubs that could just drop like a stone should their own money-man decide to call it a day.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu May 02, 2019 7:50 pm

LoidLucan wrote:What puzzles me is why this bunch of shysters targeted Gateshead. You're talking about a club with a few hundred fans with no ground of their own, no land and no assets apart from a few players who have now gone. I can't see what their angle was as it was hardly a good target for asset stripping and making a quick buck. All they seem to have done is destroyed the club as it now has no players, no staff and no home.

I see the fans have set up a funding page for the new club that will be set up with an initial target of £50,000.

It's sad to see what's happened but it is also an example of a club that relied purely on individual benefactors to fund it to a high level in the pyramid. But they ran out of them. And once they became a target for the bad guys who were never going to chuck money down a black hole, it was always going to end in tears. There a lot of other clubs that could just drop like a stone should their own money-man decide to call it a day.
Good summary Lucan, just goes to show that we are slowly getting things right with our model and probably a lot better off than probably many, many non League clubs.Happy the way things are progressing with us tbh.

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tdk1
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Re: Gateshead

Post by tdk1 » Thu May 02, 2019 7:55 pm

That is something that strikes me about this. There are some terrible people doing terrible things in football, and this is not something I would wish on Gateshead fans whatsoever. The way that long serving people are being treated is awful.

But they've been bankrolled for years, and one way or another there was going to be a contraction coming at some point. How is it supposed to happen? It'll come for spenny at some point, eventually. Their crowds are good considering the size of blah, blah, blah, but they're still overreaching and at some time that has to go into reverse. It'll happen to Harrogate, it'll happen to fylde, just as it happened to us. Has a club ever gone through the post boom contraction in any way other than catastrophe?

It's hopefully also a reminder for anyone insisting we need to seek a large "investment"

H1987
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Re: Gateshead

Post by H1987 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:25 pm

It just depends on the owner though, doesn't it? Some are good, some are bad.

I can't see Salford ever going away, their class of 92 lot are football guys with an affection for the area. I mean Boro, to a more modest point, have been backed over the years by a selfless chairman who is a fan, and loves the club. I get the sense this is the case for Spennymoor as well.

I suspect the way to weed out the good and the bad ones is clubs keeping some sort of mechanism so they can get their clubs back. The model some German clubs operate, for instance, may be a good balance.

The thing with Gateshead is weird though. I just don't get the sense of what the owners have got out of this, at all. Why did they do it? Why did they get involved? As rightly pointed out, they had no real assets. The whole thing is nuts. I read somewhere they think they might try to move to Kingston Park. To what end?! That's too big as well. Aside from the running track making things a bit unappealing at the GIS, there's not much difference, and crucially, it's not in Gateshead.

I get the sense their fans are jumping too soon though - and also overestimating what they can crowd fund... i have a quick look. They've only raised 4.5k in pledges... we're raised exponentially more just to boost our budget for next year. It's not that a number of their fans don't care for the club - and for them i feel truly rotten - but they've just not got the numbers to found a significant phoenix club.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by tdk1 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:35 pm

I agree with all you're saying about Gateshead.

As for the others, well, forever is a long time. Ultimately, everything is finite, and when groves does eventually pack it in, really the best spenny can hope for is a managed decline. Same goes for Salford. Boro are different because they're always on the edge of the financial promised land. If Gibson jacked it in, he probably wouldnt demand his money back, but the club would be able to maintain itself from its operating income, even if things were a bit hairy for a while.

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divas
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Re: Gateshead

Post by divas » Thu May 02, 2019 10:58 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:25 pm
It just depends on the owner though, doesn't it? Some are good, some are bad.
Indeed, however as SLM quite rightly pointed out it’s not necessarily the first person that were to come in that you need to worry about as you can vet that person - it’s the subsequent people they sell onto who could be anyone and there’s nothing we as fans can do to stop that once we’ve given the club up.

There’s just too much risk these days to hand over full control to one person. Whatever happens in the future we must hold some sort of control - not easy if someone is going to be ploughing in significant funds.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri May 03, 2019 12:22 am

The new Gateshead side hope to be granted a place in the Northern League. I'd be surprised if they come through the leagues like we did, but good luck to them.

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Gateshead

Post by shildonlad » Fri May 03, 2019 4:14 am

Cant argue with any of the above. I first started watching gateshead 6 year ago after been persuaded to come along by the guys who ran the supporters club and the club was going through a rough patch then, not playing at the IS and my 1st game was at hartlepool, so i was not a glory hunter ha ha. However been forced to vacate the ground was due to a pitch issues and the relegation battle was down to a very duff manager not financial bother as proved by the following season under gary mills. Things looked uncertain when graeme wood left whos aim genuinely was to pass the club onto good hands and he even remained as chairman for a few months for a smooth handover. Malcolm crosby may have been out of his depth as a manager but his recruitment was decent enough, ryan bowman and danny johnson were good strikers for starters but crowds seemed to go back to pre play off season under richard bennots ownership. Some blamed aspin and his style of football but 8th and 9th place finishes under him proved otherwise to me. I think it was some bad pr disasters and poor marketing and simply hoying too much money at it that was there down fall. Only really exciting time under them was the fa trophy semi in 2018. I never blamed them for pulling out at the time but we thought it was like graeme wood where the club would be sold for a pound to a owner they vetted with no debt which was a complete lie. Sale initially fell through which i now know was down to joe cala failing the owners fit and proper test. He finally got in through the back door by getting his mate ranjan varghese to buy the club effectively on his behalf and be a shadow director. His 1st job was sacking volunteer turnstyle operators and treasurer and cover those jobs mostly himself whilst claiming to be chief financial advisor but on paper has no connection to the club but still calls the shots. Whats happened lately has been nothing short of evil and makes george reynolds look like a nice guy and good chairman, honest! Sacking a manager who has been at the club 9 year as player and coach before as well as his assistant by text who got a club on one of the lowest budgets to 9th is shocking and very odd. The media manager and general manager who stepped up from administrator after vastly experienced mike coulson was forced out and had to put up with shite from joe cala and went unpaid at times were also sacked by e-mail. The official twitter accounts and facebook page have signed over to the supporters club so the club dont even have them anymore. Despite the club been put up for sale and a credible buyer who has passed the fit and proper test and has had positive talks with council and supporters club they refuse to sell to him which makes me think they are doing it purely out of spite. They only own a piece of paper. They have set up a new twitter account which seems like a bad parody account and they still claim they want to relocate and stay in the national league. Bigger fool any league or club that will have these frauds! To top it off a director, nigel harrop has been appointed, a man who owned ilkeston who were liquidated only 2 year ago. How is that even allowed. Worst ever owners in football, I think so!
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Gateshead

Post by shildonlad » Fri May 03, 2019 4:25 am

As for the phoenix club, it wont be a phoenix until the current gateshead is liquidated. I suspect this is another evil plan to limp the club on as long as possible to be auckward to hamper a phoenix club. Apart from marketing issues a new club would have to start lower than a phoenix like the newly formed ferriby who have been admitted into the ncel. A bit hasty, maybe as i still have very faint hope the fa and league will act and force them to sell. On the other hand if this the ball never got rolling with the new club and folk waited until if/when the current gateshead was liquidated they could miss out on a team for next season. How big the project to be depends on how much money will is raised as yous will know too well. I gather it wont be fully fan owned with some input from local business men and other stakeholders. The council are on board which is good. Only formed on Wednesday so very early days.
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Gateshead

Post by eddie-rowles » Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 am

shildonlad wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:25 am
As for the phoenix club, it wont be a phoenix until the current gateshead is liquidated. I suspect this is another evil plan to limp the club on as long as possible to be auckward to hamper a phoenix club. Apart from marketing issues a new club would have to start lower than a phoenix like the newly formed ferriby who have been admitted into the ncel. A bit hasty, maybe as i still have very faint hope the fa and league will act and force them to sell. On the other hand if this the ball never got rolling with the new club and folk waited until if/when the current gateshead was liquidated they could miss out on a team for next season. How big the project to be depends on how much money will is raised as yous will know too well. I gather it wont be fully fan owned with some input from local business men and other stakeholders. The council are on board which is good. Only formed on Wednesday so very early days.
Good luck Gateshead fans
Ever since the FA screwed Darlington supporters I have took more notice of what the FA do or basically don't do and you realise how inept and pathetic they really are. There is no fit and proper test, if you talk nicely wear a blazer and slacks you fit the proper test, if your a foreigner bow and scrape mention how great the British Empire was and you eventually get in even if you screwed other teams (Raj!). Fans need to have a voice and a legal avenue via the FA to challenge club ownership, nothing will improve until then.
There is a bond of £200K at Gateshead,players should be paid out of that immediately but by the next month (this would allow clubs with a short term cash flow, etc being covered for say weather cancelled games) this bond has to be replaced to keep playing. No money no play. At the moment supporters at Gateshead, Bolton etc don't know day to day whats going on just what the FA like.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by al_quaker » Fri May 03, 2019 8:37 am

eddie-rowles wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 am
There is no fit and proper test, if you talk nicely wear a blazer and slacks you fit the proper test, if your a foreigner bow and scrape mention how great the British Empire was and you eventually get in even if you screwed other teams (Raj!).
Singh is British

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Re: Gateshead

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri May 03, 2019 8:45 am

Having the council on board and them helping you financially may be two different things. Shildonlad do you think there are any supporters that have boycotted the club and their owners, who might now return to the fold? Whatever level you end up at, you might find you enjoy the experience of watching Gateshead a lot more, like we did when we got relegated to the Northern League.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by spen666 » Fri May 03, 2019 9:19 am

eddie-rowles wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 am
shildonlad wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:25 am
As for the phoenix club, it wont be a phoenix until the current gateshead is liquidated. I suspect this is another evil plan to limp the club on as long as possible to be auckward to hamper a phoenix club. Apart from marketing issues a new club would have to start lower than a phoenix like the newly formed ferriby who have been admitted into the ncel. A bit hasty, maybe as i still have very faint hope the fa and league will act and force them to sell. On the other hand if this the ball never got rolling with the new club and folk waited until if/when the current gateshead was liquidated they could miss out on a team for next season. How big the project to be depends on how much money will is raised as yous will know too well. I gather it wont be fully fan owned with some input from local business men and other stakeholders. The council are on board which is good. Only formed on Wednesday so very early days.
Good luck Gateshead fans
Ever since the FA screwed Darlington supporters I have took more notice of what the FA do or basically don't do and you realise how inept and pathetic they really are. There is no fit and proper test, if you talk nicely wear a blazer and slacks you fit the proper test, if your a foreigner bow and scrape mention how great the British Empire was and you eventually get in even if you screwed other teams (Raj!). Fans need to have a voice and a legal avenue via the FA to challenge club ownership, nothing will improve until then.
There is a bond of £200K at Gateshead,players should be paid out of that immediately but by the next month (this would allow clubs with a short term cash flow, etc being covered for say weather cancelled games) this bond has to be replaced to keep playing. No money no play. At the moment supporters at Gateshead, Bolton etc don't know day to day whats going on just what the FA like.

In reality, there is little the FA or the Leagues can do.

Firstly, its easy to look back with hindsight and say someone shouldn't have been allowed to run a club. For example at the time he took over Darlington, there was nothing that would have allowed the FA to say RS was not fit and proper. ( I accept that someone like Bassini trying to take over Bolton has a track record... but most owners have no track record.

Secondly, the FA or Leagues have little power in effect. The can't prevent someone buying and owning a football club. The rules on ownership of companies is controlled by the Companies Act- national legislation, not FA rules. In reality, all the FA can do is say to a club if that if X is owner of the club we will not allow you to compete in our competitions. Expelling a club in financial trouble from for example the football league is only going to ensure that the club goes bankrupt. The Owners & Directors Test (ODT) can only really have any effect when there are other potential purchasers to buy club as opposed to the unsuitable person.

As for the FA screwing over Darlington, the FA followed the correct rules because for reasons that have never been properly explored the new owners in 2012 somehow never got the football share when purchasing the club. A club without a football share has to be treated by the FA rules as a new club. It seems to me that either:

1. RS breached the contract in not signing over the football share - if so, then he should have been sued for breach of contract. Sadly this is now time barred as limit for a civil claim of this nature is 6 years. A more drastic alternative would have been to report RS to the police for theft of the football share! Whether that could be established to a criminal standard of proof is doubtful
2. The purchase agreement failed to include the football share as one of the items to be incuded in the purchase. The suggests to me that either or both of the solicitors acting for Darlington or the 2012 board of the purchasers were negligent in failing to include the share in the inventory of items to be purchased. As with point 1, any negligence action is time barred now.

As both actions are now time barred, little can be done now to change what happened.

The club should have been able to start 2012/13 in the Conference North (albeit with a points deduction for going into relegation) if the football share had been obtained. The anger should be directed at whoever it was that failed to ensure the football share was transferred. That is the cause of the being placed in the Northern League.

The big losers were the fans who provided a large sum of money but because of the reasons above never got what they thought they were purchasing.
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Spyman
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Re: Gateshead

Post by Spyman » Fri May 03, 2019 9:30 am

H1987 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:25 pm
It just depends on the owner though, doesn't it? Some are good, some are bad.

I can't see Salford ever going away, their class of 92 lot are football guys with an affection for the area. I mean Boro, to a more modest point, have been backed over the years by a selfless chairman who is a fan, and loves the club. I get the sense this is the case for Spennymoor as well.

I suspect the way to weed out the good and the bad ones is clubs keeping some sort of mechanism so they can get their clubs back. The model some German clubs operate, for instance, may be a good balance.

The thing with Gateshead is weird though. I just don't get the sense of what the owners have got out of this, at all. Why did they do it? Why did they get involved? As rightly pointed out, they had no real assets. The whole thing is nuts. I read somewhere they think they might try to move to Kingston Park. To what end?! That's too big as well. Aside from the running track making things a bit unappealing at the GIS, there's not much difference, and crucially, it's not in Gateshead.

I get the sense their fans are jumping too soon though - and also overestimating what they can crowd fund... i have a quick look. They've only raised 4.5k in pledges... we're raised exponentially more just to boost our budget for next year. It's not that a number of their fans don't care for the club - and for them i feel truly rotten - but they've just not got the numbers to found a significant phoenix club.
You're probably right on Salford, even if Peter Lim walked away the ex-Utd guys must have very deep pockets and as you say, have a deep connection to both the area and football itself. I would think the main risk for them would be if they progressed a couple of levels more and Neville etc decided to sell their stake to someone else.

Spennymoor could absolutely end up in a Gateshead scenario. There's no doubting Groves' commitment and good intention however the costs increase significantly once you get to the National League and above, and who knows how long he could sustain that level of funding. I don't know how wealthy he is but it's hard to imagine him sustaining that on his own for too long, and once he has to start looking for external investment or borrowing then that's when you start to lose control.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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Re: Gateshead

Post by onewayup » Fri May 03, 2019 9:44 am

Spen666 ,you do not know the full facts regarding the golden football share, I know what Singh verbally told me ,I know he lied ,fact I know he's to blame for not doing what he said he had done, fact,

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Re: Gateshead

Post by spen666 » Fri May 03, 2019 10:33 am

onewayup wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:44 am
Spen666 ,you do not know the full facts regarding the golden football share, I know what Singh verbally told me ,I know he lied ,fact I know he's to blame for not doing what he said he had done, fact,
I am the first to admit I do not know what happened to the football share, that is why I provided options as to what had happened.

The end result of whatever happened back in 2012 is Darlington being placed in step 5 instead of step 2. Who knows where the club would be now if the football share had been supplied. I wonder what the ground situation would have been in 2012 if the club were in National League North then.


Whatever the cause of the issue, the fans/ investors in DFC in 2012 are the victims.

I am puzzled why legal proceedings did not follow in 2012 by either the Administrators or by the new owners of the football club against whoever was to blame. I do wonder if the solicitors representing the new owners in 2012 were negligent in their actions in failing to ensure the new owners got the football share.


PS Please do not for one minute think I am trying to defend RS - there is no defence for what happened when he was there.
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Re: Gateshead

Post by shildonlad » Fri May 03, 2019 12:06 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:Having the council on board and them helping you financially may be two different things. Shildonlad do you think there are any supporters that have boycotted the club and their owners, who might now return to the fold? Whatever level you end up at, you might find you enjoy the experience of watching Gateshead a lot more, like we did when we got relegated to the Northern League.
Most kept on going to support ben clark and a load of hard working young players, not many that would normally go stayed away. Those that would return would be a few voulanteers. Those that were not sacked left in protests leaving practically no one
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Gateshead

Post by shildonlad » Fri May 03, 2019 12:14 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:Having the council on board and them helping you financially may be two different things. Shildonlad do you think there are any supporters that have boycotted the club and their owners, who might now return to the fold? Whatever level you end up at, you might find you enjoy the experience of watching Gateshead a lot more, like we did when we got relegated to the Northern League.
Anyhow my names chris cant seem to be able to change my user name nowt to be proud off been associated with the s*** hole that is shildon ha ha
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Gateshead

Post by shildonlad » Fri May 03, 2019 12:15 pm

Thanks for the legal fact spen666 always a pleasure you might be right about singh haveing no dodgy dealings in football prior to darlo, maybe lads on here can confirm that but those at gateshead had various dodgy dealing in football which are clear to see even bu using google search, thats a fact.
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Gateshead

Post by murtonquaker » Fri May 03, 2019 12:45 pm

An article on BBC Sports

Gateshead: From brink of National League Play-Offs to possible oblivion

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Re: Gateshead

Post by spen666 » Fri May 03, 2019 2:56 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:15 pm
Thanks for the legal fact spen666 always a pleasure Image you might be right about singh haveing no dodgy dealings in football prior to darlo, maybe lads on here can confirm that but those at gateshead had various dodgy dealing in football which are clear to see even bu using google search, thats a fact.

The whole situation at Gateshead is bizarre from the identity of the people involved and their past history through to what they are trying to achieve with a club with a small fanbase for its place in the pyramid through to it having no assets and playing in a ground not designed for the football experience.

I am sure I am not the only person looking from outside and wondering what these lot are/ were hoping to achieve by buying Gateshead.
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Re: Gateshead

Post by shildonlad » Fri May 03, 2019 3:16 pm

spen666 wrote:
shildonlad wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:15 pm
Thanks for the legal fact spen666 always a pleasure Image you might be right about singh haveing no dodgy dealings in football prior to darlo, maybe lads on here can confirm that but those at gateshead had various dodgy dealing in football which are clear to see even bu using google search, thats a fact.

The whole situation at Gateshead is bizarre from the identity of the people involved and their past history through to what they are trying to achieve with a club with a small fanbase for its place in the pyramid through to it having no assets and playing in a ground not designed for the football experience.

I am sure I am not the only person looking from outside and wondering what these lot are/ were hoping to achieve by buying Gateshead.
No sod knows. Getting more bizare by the day they are now contradicting there own statements which seem to have been put out by different parties. Still not selling, god knows why
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Gateshead

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Fri May 03, 2019 4:48 pm

This is bad for Gateshead - and yes before you bring it up shildonlad I did say fuck off Gateshead the other week - although I didn't literally mean fuck off Gateshead, what I meant was "lucky bastards" because I thought Dunphy was going to come and rescue you at that time.

Looks like that luck has ran out for now, but it's not nice to see in any case.

You should hold off on the breakaway club though, see what happens with the actual club first? Worst case scenario and Heed go bust you can start again as a phoenix at step 5 or 6 rather than step 7.

Another bad scenario, actually just as bad as worst case scenario - Heed are moved elsewhere and renamed like Wimbledon and Evenwood were, then obviously a breakaway club is then the solution.
TAFKAQ

@1883Of

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