The Arena

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Kalu
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Re: The Areana

Post by Kalu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:02 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:01 am
Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:53 am
If it's part of the plans for the Sporting Village - i.e temporary until a viable solution is made as part of the plans at the arena then yes.

The Sporting Village is going to not only be huge for the town, but for the region - DFC simply can't not be a part of it IMO.
It won't be "huge", it's all about making sure Mowden are alright.
It really isn't. I assume you have seen the plans and know the ins and outs?

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Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am

The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

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Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
But Mr Bill Dixon is no longer in charge.

The Arena is a no from me.
Last edited by JasonDeVos on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kalu
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Re: The Areana

Post by Kalu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.

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Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am

While there are some plans outlining the "vision" of a sporting village, we don't yet know all the implications for the football club... what's envisaged, what's possible and, crucially, what would be involved financially. Until all that is presented in a clear and detailed way I don't think anyone can say at this stage that we must be part of it.

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Kalu
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Re: The Areana

Post by Kalu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:23 am

LoidLucan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am
While there are some plans outlining the "vision" of a sporting village, we don't yet know all the implications for the football club... what's envisaged, what's possible and, crucially, what would be involved financially. Until all that is presented in a clear and detailed way I don't think anyone can say at this stage that we must be part of it.
Agree, but without wanting to be a part of the "vision" as you say how do we have any leverage financially.

You simply can't walk into it with a "what's in it for us" attitude, regardless of how important it is to making a decision on it. Pragmatism is key.

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Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:29 am

Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.
If the two major obstacles can be overcome (1. Primacy of tenure, and 2. 4G pitch) then moving back to the Arena makes sense especially if we get a better commercial deal than we have currently.

We should not have to worry so much about getting the ground graded for the next levels etc - though I would throw a little caution and find out how much it will cost us to get it re-graded by the FA, don't want any nasty expensive shocks.

Moving back to the Arena on the premise of building our own ground to get the move through for me is a no no. Building our own ground there is just airy fairy, pie in the sky, dreamland stuff that realistically is 99% near impossible. Think of the costs, it cost FCUM £6 million to build their ground and it just about gets category A. We aren't going to get it done cheaper and to be honest I would not trust anyone in charge of ground development not to fuck it up. You only have to look at the main stand at BM, £300,000+ for that joke of an erection. Shildon paid 85k for their 200 seat PROPER stand - as opposed to 150k that we paid for each 294 seated stand - and all it is, is a shallow deck of temporary seating made permanent with a canopy that doesn't even fit properly. There are tonnes of companies out there building and erecting bespoke stands, and that's the best we could come up with! Putting aside the fact that we'd be bound to come up with a crap ground that would no doubt need bits redoing later, where would the money come from?

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

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Re: The Areana

Post by Kalu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:52 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:29 am
Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.
If the two major obstacles can be overcome (1. Primacy of tenure, and 2. 4G pitch) then moving back to the Arena makes sense especially if we get a better commercial deal than we have currently.

We should not have to worry so much about getting the ground graded for the next levels etc - though I would throw a little caution and find out how much it will cost us to get it re-graded by the FA, don't want any nasty expensive shocks.

Moving back to the Arena on the premise of building our own ground to get the move through for me is a no no. Building our own ground there is just airy fairy, pie in the sky, dreamland stuff that realistically is 99% near impossible. Think of the costs, it cost FCUM £6 million to build their ground and it just about gets category A. We aren't going to get it done cheaper and to be honest I would not trust anyone in charge of ground development not to fuck it up. You only have to look at the main stand at BM, £300,000+ for that joke of an erection. Shildon paid 85k for their 200 seat PROPER stand - as opposed to 150k that we paid for each 294 seated stand - and all it is, is a shallow deck of temporary seating made permanent with a canopy that doesn't even fit properly. There are tonnes of companies out there building and erecting bespoke stands, and that's the best we could come up with! Putting aside the fact that we'd be bound to come up with a crap ground that would no doubt need bits redoing later, where would the money come from?

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
I can't argue with the majority of that.

Lot's of questions to be asked, and my guess is it's getting closer to the time where decisions need to be made.

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Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 am

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
[/quote]

Downside is it is horrific, nearly killed the club on more than one occasion, not fit for purpose, may lead to a further reduction in crowd and many more reasons I can’t be bothered to add.

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Re: The Areana

Post by Beano » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:58 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.
If the two major obstacles can be overcome (1. Primacy of tenure, and 2. 4G pitch) then moving back to the Arena makes sense especially if we get a better commercial deal than we have currently.

We should not have to worry so much about getting the ground graded for the next levels etc - though I would throw a little caution and find out how much it will cost us to get it re-graded by the FA, don't want any nasty expensive shocks.

Moving back to the Arena on the premise of building our own ground to get the move through for me is a no no. Building our own ground there is just airy fairy, pie in the sky, dreamland stuff that realistically is 99% near impossible. Think of the costs, it cost FCUM £6 million to build their ground and it just about gets category A. We aren't going to get it done cheaper and to be honest I would not trust anyone in charge of ground development not to fuck it up. You only have to look at the main stand at BM, £300,000+ for that joke of an erection. Shildon paid 85k for their 200 seat PROPER stand - as opposed to 150k that we paid for each 294 seated stand - and all it is, is a shallow deck of temporary seating made permanent with a canopy that doesn't even fit properly. There are tonnes of companies out there building and erecting bespoke stands, and that's the best we could come up with! Putting aside the fact that we'd be bound to come up with a crap ground that would no doubt need bits redoing later, where would the money come from?

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
As much as it pains me to admit, the commercial realities probably make it a necessary evil if the two obstacles described can be overcome.

However, I quite like the match day atmosphere at BM and have trepidation over moving the soulless, atmosphere lacking, half-finished Arena.

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Re: The Areana

Post by Kalu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:03 am

Beano wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:58 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.
If the two major obstacles can be overcome (1. Primacy of tenure, and 2. 4G pitch) then moving back to the Arena makes sense especially if we get a better commercial deal than we have currently.

We should not have to worry so much about getting the ground graded for the next levels etc - though I would throw a little caution and find out how much it will cost us to get it re-graded by the FA, don't want any nasty expensive shocks.

Moving back to the Arena on the premise of building our own ground to get the move through for me is a no no. Building our own ground there is just airy fairy, pie in the sky, dreamland stuff that realistically is 99% near impossible. Think of the costs, it cost FCUM £6 million to build their ground and it just about gets category A. We aren't going to get it done cheaper and to be honest I would not trust anyone in charge of ground development not to fuck it up. You only have to look at the main stand at BM, £300,000+ for that joke of an erection. Shildon paid 85k for their 200 seat PROPER stand - as opposed to 150k that we paid for each 294 seated stand - and all it is, is a shallow deck of temporary seating made permanent with a canopy that doesn't even fit properly. There are tonnes of companies out there building and erecting bespoke stands, and that's the best we could come up with! Putting aside the fact that we'd be bound to come up with a crap ground that would no doubt need bits redoing later, where would the money come from?

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
As much as it pains me to admit, the commercial realities probably make it a necessary evil if the two obstacles described can be overcome.

However, I quite like the match day atmosphere at BM and have trepidation over moving the soulless, atmosphere lacking, half-finished Arena.
I agree. The commercial aspects of the arena would make it more palatable. Hospitality would be ramped up as would sponsorship opportunities.

It's up to the club to engage with the residents of Darlington (and surrounding areas) to make them want to come and watch the games. A town of 100k+ people should not be getting sub 2k crowds.

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Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:11 am

JasonDeVos wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 am
Downside is it is horrific, nearly killed the club on more than one occasion, not fit for purpose, may lead to a further reduction in crowd and many more reasons I can’t be bothered to add.
The difference is that if we move back as tenants, we won't be responsible to the overall costs of the stadium as we were before - that's now Mowden's problem. If we hit financial problems in future seasons, it won't be down to the cost of the Arena.

Not fit for purpose? Of course it is. I could swear it's hosted league football before...

I get that many people hate the Arena for many various reasons. A lot of people have stated that they would stop watching us if we went there, but I like to think that the majority of those people would see the bigger picture if it turned out that we were going to be better off going back there.

I don't think crowds would dip, and one major advantage is the ability to get more than 3,000 people into the ground for a big match - ie play off, promotion, big cup tie, large away following etc.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

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Re: The Areana

Post by spen666 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:25 am

Reading the comments on here re the Council and its continual lack of help to DFC.

in 1990, Charlton Athletic when exiled from the Valley had similar issues with lack of co-operation from the council. The Supporters Trust formed their own political party. "the Valley Party" and contested the local elections

https://www.castrust.org/2013/07/if-you ... ley-party/

http://www.rolandouttoday.eu/The-Valley-Party/

It may be something worth considering as the clubs fans at DFC are nothing if not loyal and hardworking for the club's benefit.

Even if it won no seats at all, it would put the plight of the football club on the local news and local political agenda.

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Re: The Areana

Post by D_F_C » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:11 am
JasonDeVos wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 am
Downside is it is horrific, nearly killed the club on more than one occasion, not fit for purpose, may lead to a further reduction in crowd and many more reasons I can’t be bothered to add.
The difference is that if we move back as tenants, we won't be responsible to the overall costs of the stadium as we were before - that's now Mowden's problem. If we hit financial problems in future seasons, it won't be down to the cost of the Arena.

Not fit for purpose? Of course it is. I could swear it's hosted league football before...

I get that many people hate the Arena for many various reasons. A lot of people have stated that they would stop watching us if we went there, but I like to think that the majority of those people would see the bigger picture if it turned out that we were going to be better off going back there.

I don't think crowds would dip, and one major advantage is the ability to get more than 3,000 people into the ground for a big match - ie play off, promotion, big cup tie, large away following etc.
genuine question. You've said that the cost of the arena would be down to MP. But what if they go under...what then?

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Re: The Areana

Post by Wiseacre » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:34 am

Maybe the fond memories of playing at Bishop Auckland are because we won a lot of games there whereas The Arena has some very painful ones. Some people called Reynolds idealistic at the time but I can't see the place as anything but a monument to his narcissism and ignorance about small football clubs. The club is in incomparably better hands now and BM's might have to do for a bit longer - the team didn't have any problems putting on such a good show there on Saturday.

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Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:45 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:11 am
JasonDeVos wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 am
Downside is it is horrific, nearly killed the club on more than one occasion, not fit for purpose, may lead to a further reduction in crowd and many more reasons I can’t be bothered to add.
The difference is that if we move back as tenants, we won't be responsible to the overall costs of the stadium as we were before - that's now Mowden's problem. If we hit financial problems in future seasons, it won't be down to the cost of the Arena.

Not fit for purpose? Of course it is. I could swear it's hosted league football before...

I get that many people hate the Arena for many various reasons. A lot of people have stated that they would stop watching us if we went there, but I like to think that the majority of those people would see the bigger picture if it turned out that we were going to be better off going back there.

I don't think crowds would dip, and one major advantage is the ability to get more than 3,000 people into the ground for a big match - ie play off, promotion, big cup tie, large away following etc.
Hosting league games with 2000 people and 23000 empty seats demonstrates to me it is not fit for purpose. Big cup games..... you are being optimistic

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Re: The Areana

Post by quaker4life » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:20 am

But I would never rule out a return to the Arena. DMP are in financial trouble and I could see us returning as tenants or if DMP go bust, I could see us returning as owners sometime in the future.
Out of interest, if that scenario was to play out (which I hope it doesn't) where would the funds come from to buy it? Despite it's age and general tatty appearance these days I can't imagine it'd go for less than £1m.

Under the current model it's not feasible and wouldn't last 5 minutes, got more chance of returning to Feethams.
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Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am

quaker4life wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:20 am

But I would never rule out a return to the Arena. DMP are in financial trouble and I could see us returning as tenants or if DMP go bust, I could see us returning as owners sometime in the future.
Out of interest, if that scenario was to play out (which I hope it doesn't) where would the funds come from to buy it? Despite it's age and general tatty appearance these days I can't imagine it'd go for less than £1m.

Under the current model it's not feasible and wouldn't last 5 minutes, got more chance of returning to Feethams.

Let’s see how that fundraiser goes Pete. How are you also paying the business rates, utility bills, maintenance checks etc?

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Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:56 am

D_F_C wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:11 am
JasonDeVos wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 am
Downside is it is horrific, nearly killed the club on more than one occasion, not fit for purpose, may lead to a further reduction in crowd and many more reasons I can’t be bothered to add.
The difference is that if we move back as tenants, we won't be responsible to the overall costs of the stadium as we were before - that's now Mowden's problem. If we hit financial problems in future seasons, it won't be down to the cost of the Arena.

Not fit for purpose? Of course it is. I could swear it's hosted league football before...

I get that many people hate the Arena for many various reasons. A lot of people have stated that they would stop watching us if we went there, but I like to think that the majority of those people would see the bigger picture if it turned out that we were going to be better off going back there.

I don't think crowds would dip, and one major advantage is the ability to get more than 3,000 people into the ground for a big match - ie play off, promotion, big cup tie, large away following etc.
genuine question. You've said that the cost of the arena would be down to MP. But what if they go under...what then?
What if DRFC go under...what then?

Back to Mowden, the SV is obviously going to make them money. As would we make them money by paying them rent. They have certainly done better than we ever did with hosting events at the Arena as well - whether that's down to more help from the council or whether that's down to them just being more business like, I dunno.

I'm guessing that everything coming together, ie the SV, all future planned events, us being there if it happens, the income from the 4g facilities, is all projected to add up to enough to pay the large running costs of that stadium.

Also, their expenditure on players will be significantly less than when we were paying professional league players at the Arena.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

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Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:00 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:56 am
D_F_C wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:30 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:11 am
JasonDeVos wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:55 am
Downside is it is horrific, nearly killed the club on more than one occasion, not fit for purpose, may lead to a further reduction in crowd and many more reasons I can’t be bothered to add.
The difference is that if we move back as tenants, we won't be responsible to the overall costs of the stadium as we were before - that's now Mowden's problem. If we hit financial problems in future seasons, it won't be down to the cost of the Arena.

Not fit for purpose? Of course it is. I could swear it's hosted league football before...

I get that many people hate the Arena for many various reasons. A lot of people have stated that they would stop watching us if we went there, but I like to think that the majority of those people would see the bigger picture if it turned out that we were going to be better off going back there.

I don't think crowds would dip, and one major advantage is the ability to get more than 3,000 people into the ground for a big match - ie play off, promotion, big cup tie, large away following etc.
genuine question. You've said that the cost of the arena would be down to MP. But what if they go under...what then?
What if DRFC go under...what then?

Back to Mowden, the SV is obviously going to make them money. As would we make them money by paying them rent. They have certainly done better than we ever did with hosting events at the Arena as well - whether that's down to more help from the council or whether that's down to them just being more business like, I dunno.

I'm guessing that everything coming together, ie the SV, all future planned events, us being there if it happens, the income from the 4g facilities, is all projected to add up to enough to pay the large running costs of that stadium.

Also, their expenditure on players will be significantly less than when we were paying professional league players at the Arena.
[/quote

Do you know how much one of their players gets or just guessing?

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Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 pm

I have no idea what their players get paid, but under GH we were running a £2m wage bill.

Chances of their bill being anywhere near that, are very unlikely.

It's only moderate level rugby union, which no one gives a fuck about. I'd bet my life that they have no players picking up 2 and 3 grand a week!
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

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Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:19 pm

Agree it won’t be 2 to 3k but might be higher than we think.

If you want to see a sporting village working then last night was an example. Football pitches, athletes track and cycling club all working side by side on council facilities

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Re: The Areana

Post by lo36789 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Round and round the debate goes...without any new information to light so it is just the same debate.

The best option for us as a club is a venue which;
- is appropriately sized to suit our needs and can be rented and developed within our means
- provides a matchday experience which meets fans expectations
- we can actually play at (grading, surface and primacy of tenure)
- can be used to generate off field commercial revenues
- does not incur financial penalty

As of today BM has more ticks on it than any other facility available. If any others were better we would be there now.

I think our best option to move is when another facility ticks more boxes than it and the totality doesn’t put us in financial jeopardy.

Until that point it is Blackwell and people should assume that is the future everything else is just rumour.

Brexit is round the corner does anyone seriously think a council in the north of England is going to be flush with cash for development of sporting facilities come October.

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Re: The Areana

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:15 pm

From my understanding Mowden rugby club won’t own the arena after the SV goes ahead, aren’t they handing it over as part of the deal. So Mowden Rugby club can go bust and it won’t affect the ground, although if both paying in and then only one that just have some effect.

Also I think it’s already owned by a separate company away from the actual Rugby part - albeit the same owners in reality just two companies.

I might be wrong on the above but from memory that’s what I was told.

Yarblockos
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Re: The Areana

Post by Yarblockos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:19 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:42 pm
Round and round the debate goes...without any new information to light so it is just the same debate.

The best option for us as a club is a venue which;
- is appropriately sized to suit our needs and can be rented and developed within our means
- provides a matchday experience which meets fans expectations
- we can actually play at (grading, surface and primacy of tenure)
- can be used to generate off field commercial revenues
- does not incur financial penalty

As of today BM has more ticks on it than any other facility available. If any others were better we would be there now.

I think our best option to move is when another facility ticks more boxes than it and the totality doesn’t put us in financial jeopardy.

Until that point it is Blackwell and people should assume that is the future everything else is just rumour.

Brexit is round the corner does anyone seriously think a council in the north of England is going to be flush with cash for development of sporting facilities come October.
Try to give a balanced picture please. You've failed to acknowledge that the costs required to upgrade BM to be suitable for the FL or even the NL would run into millions, and that expansion is almost impossible due to the pipe. BM does not meet our commercial needs, and does not provide a good matchday experience (if we want to get more than 2,000 in the ground that is). We can't afford to develop BM, and we can't afford to build a new ground. A big plus for the Arena is that it is already built!

lo36789
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Re: The Areana

Post by lo36789 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:15 pm

Where did I say BM ticked all the boxes?

I said it ticks more than anywhere else at current state if play and if the SV / Arena is going for an artificial pitch it has just given itself the exact same barriers that you have said exist at BM - or are they only critical when it suits?

- is appropriately sized to suit our needs and can be rented and developed within our means
— BM (Yes currently)
— Arena (? no idea on rent cost / upkeep costs and it is a little bit big but I’ll say Yes otherwise for balance)
— Heritage Park (No)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes)
- provides a matchday experience which meets fans expectations
— BM (Not currently)
— Arena (Not ever)
— HP (yes apparently)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes)
- we can actually play at (grading, surface and primacy of tenure)
— BM (Yes, currently but potential ceiling for FL grading wise if we get there. Potential to develop clubhouse side but would be a long shot)
— Arena (No. MP won’t give primacy of tenure and even if they did it could meet requirements now but potential ceiling for FL if replaced with 3G as proposed)
— HP (No)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes)
- can be used to generate off field commercial revenues
— BM (No as we are tenants we are limited)
— Arena (No as we are tenant we would be limited - MP won’t forgo use of their facility for free)
— HP (No)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes allegedly)
- does not incur financial penalty?
— BM (Yes - no penalty)
— Arena (No - would incur penalty unless we find loophole)
— HP (No - would incur penalty)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (No - would incur penalty but probably paid off by the council since they are feeling so generous)

So basically until the magic purpose built ground erupts from the ground and is donated to us this is why I believe BM is the best place for us now.

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Re: The Areana

Post by lo36789 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:18 pm

A big negative for the Arena is that it’s current owners won’t let us play there with a contract which could actually let us enter the league and they plan to put down 3G to maximise their revenues.

so a) we won’t be able to play games and b) we will have the identical progression barriers that are so much of an issue at BM.

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Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:37 pm

When it comes down to it, we'll be offered a chunk of land on which we can develop a ground fit for whatever level we want as part of the sports village grand plan. So we'd probably have to pay off anything we were contractually liable for at BM and then start from scratch, lay out a pitch, barriers, develop stands, terracing, changing rooms, clubhouse, floodlights etc etc and all the while try to finance a competitive side. We're gonna need some bloody big buckets to rattle because let's face it no-one's going to do it for us or hand over a big wad of cash to set us on our way.

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Re: The Areana

Post by Yarblockos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:15 pm
Where did I say BM ticked all the boxes?

I said it ticks more than anywhere else at current state if play and if the SV / Arena is going for an artificial pitch it has just given itself the exact same barriers that you have said exist at BM - or are they only critical when it suits?

- is appropriately sized to suit our needs and can be rented and developed within our means
— BM (Yes currently)
— Arena (? no idea on rent cost / upkeep costs and it is a little bit big but I’ll say Yes otherwise for balance)
— Heritage Park (No)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes)
- provides a matchday experience which meets fans expectations
— BM (Not currently)
— Arena (Not ever)
— HP (yes apparently)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes)
- we can actually play at (grading, surface and primacy of tenure)
— BM (Yes, currently but potential ceiling for FL grading wise if we get there. Potential to develop clubhouse side but would be a long shot)
— Arena (No. MP won’t give primacy of tenure and even if they did it could meet requirements now but potential ceiling for FL if replaced with 3G as proposed)
— HP (No)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes)
- can be used to generate off field commercial revenues
— BM (No as we are tenants we are limited)
— Arena (No as we are tenant we would be limited - MP won’t forgo use of their facility for free)
— HP (No)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (Yes allegedly)
- does not incur financial penalty?
— BM (Yes - no penalty)
— Arena (No - would incur penalty unless we find loophole)
— HP (No - would incur penalty)
— fabled fit for purpose SV wonder ground donated to us by the council (No - would incur penalty but probably paid off by the council since they are feeling so generous)

So basically until the magic purpose built ground erupts from the ground and is donated to us this is why I believe BM is the best place for us now.
I didn't say you did say BM ticked all the boxes.

I'm surprised you think the Arena does not provide more commercial opportunities though! One of the primary reasons DJ has been talking about a return to the Arena is that the commercial opportunities are much better. Clubs make a large proportion of their income from corporate hospitality, which is exactly what the boxes at the Arena give you. So again, you are underselling the commercial opportunities, and not to say the fact that BM can only hold 3000 limits match day income, unless we have given up on getting a crowd of 3000 ever again.

To me, overcoming the obstacle of negotiating a lease with MP, including primacy of tenancy and possible pitch changes, is a lot more feasible than raising £5 million, which will be required to build the SV ground or to demolish what we've built and upgrade BM (including pipe relaying).

Depends what our ambitions are. Stay part-time, stay in NLN?

lo36789
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Re: The Areana

Post by lo36789 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:24 pm

I think both are as uncertain as the other right now. So until one of them moves and a decision can be made it’s a pretty pointless debate.

That is my point until the boxes start to move towards the arena we are in the right place for the current time.

There could be an increase on match day commercially from Arena so ok > BM in that sense but I was actually thinking opportunities outside of matchday. I think whilst renting that is always something which will be difficult to manage.

Has £5m as a figure been actually announced? FC United’s whole stadium cost £6m and generally the cost of a purpose built stand is £1,000 per seat.

Unless you are planning a 5,000 seater stand to replace the club house then £5m seems a bit over the top.

Remember there was also talk of the idea that as long as access points either end of the ground it might remove the restriction to build on it (again up in the air no definitive answers on these things just question marks).

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