The Arena

Open now for discussion of all things Darlo!

Moderators: botrash, mikkyx, charlie, uncovered

User avatar
QuakerPete
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

The Areana

Post by QuakerPete » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.
If the two major obstacles can be overcome (1. Primacy of tenure, and 2. 4G pitch) then moving back to the Arena makes sense especially if we get a better commercial deal than we have currently.

We should not have to worry so much about getting the ground graded for the next levels etc - though I would throw a little caution and find out how much it will cost us to get it re-graded by the FA, don't want any nasty expensive shocks.

Moving back to the Arena on the premise of building our own ground to get the move through for me is a no no. Building our own ground there is just airy fairy, pie in the sky, dreamland stuff that realistically is 99% near impossible. Think of the costs, it cost FCUM £6 million to build their ground and it just about gets category A. We aren't going to get it done cheaper and to be honest I would not trust anyone in charge of ground development not to fuck it up. You only have to look at the main stand at BM, £300,000+ for that joke of an erection. Shildon paid 85k for their 200 seat PROPER stand - as opposed to 150k that we paid for each 294 seated stand - and all it is, is a shallow deck of temporary seating made permanent with a canopy that doesn't even fit properly. There are tonnes of companies out there building and erecting bespoke stands, and that's the best we could come up with! Putting aside the fact that we'd be bound to come up with a crap ground that would no doubt need bits redoing later, where would the money come from?

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
After DJ first mentioned the Sporting Village concept, at a fans’ forum, he intimated to a few of us afterwards that the BM land would be part of the whole scheme (ie, housing) which would suggest DRFC are also involved with the scheme. However, haven’t heard this point mentioned since.
But the rugby club chairman did say prior to our move into BM that we both *need* each other. Either way, something has to give if the rugby club can’t survive on their own.
It will be a big decision for DFCSG members to make when the time comes - we need full advice as to the pros and cons


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by QuakerPete on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
QuakerPete
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:51 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by QuakerPete » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Kalu wrote:
Beano wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:58 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Kalu wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 am
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am
The council love Mowden and have never done fuck all for DFC. I expect that to continue for ever more.

By the way, I'd rather play at the Arena than BM - lesser of two evils - so no anti-moving to the Arena agenda here.
I get where you are coming from, and actually agree with you RE the council. But i'm optimistic that could change.

I do just feel that we would be cutting our nose off to spite our face not getting involved. My opinion entirely of course.
If the two major obstacles can be overcome (1. Primacy of tenure, and 2. 4G pitch) then moving back to the Arena makes sense especially if we get a better commercial deal than we have currently.

We should not have to worry so much about getting the ground graded for the next levels etc - though I would throw a little caution and find out how much it will cost us to get it re-graded by the FA, don't want any nasty expensive shocks.

Moving back to the Arena on the premise of building our own ground to get the move through for me is a no no. Building our own ground there is just airy fairy, pie in the sky, dreamland stuff that realistically is 99% near impossible. Think of the costs, it cost FCUM £6 million to build their ground and it just about gets category A. We aren't going to get it done cheaper and to be honest I would not trust anyone in charge of ground development not to fuck it up. You only have to look at the main stand at BM, £300,000+ for that joke of an erection. Shildon paid 85k for their 200 seat PROPER stand - as opposed to 150k that we paid for each 294 seated stand - and all it is, is a shallow deck of temporary seating made permanent with a canopy that doesn't even fit properly. There are tonnes of companies out there building and erecting bespoke stands, and that's the best we could come up with! Putting aside the fact that we'd be bound to come up with a crap ground that would no doubt need bits redoing later, where would the money come from?

Downsides to moving back to the Arena is the reality of 1.500 people rattling around in it. Also, how much money would we have to pay off DRFC to leave Blackwell? How much funding would we have to pay back that we received for BM?
As much as it pains me to admit, the commercial realities probably make it a necessary evil if the two obstacles described can be overcome.

However, I quite like the match day atmosphere at BM and have trepidation over moving the soulless, atmosphere lacking, half-finished Arena.
I agree. The commercial aspects of the arena would make it more palatable. Hospitality would be ramped up as would sponsorship opportunities.

It's up to the club to engage with the residents of Darlington (and surrounding areas) to make them want to come and watch the games. A town of 100k+ people should not be getting sub 2k crowds.
What are the commercial opportunities at the Arena assuming you believe / know they will be greater than what we currently have at BM? I’m genuinely interested to know if the Arena would be substantially better for DFC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Darlo_Pete
Posts: 12004
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:58 am
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:46 am
Can’t understand the love of Bishop Auckland
There is no love of Bishop, not so much love that anyone would rather play in Bishop than Darlington anyway.

It's only Darlo Pete saying he'd rather play in Bishop, just to be controversial.
I don't think I'm being controversial, I'm just expressing my opinion that's all or are we not allowed to express our own opinions on here anymore, if it contradicts what the majority want or feel on here?

Vodka_Vic
Posts: 1669
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:27 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Vodka_Vic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:57 pm

Craig Morley and David Johnston have both stated that within a couple of years we will have exhausted the possibilities of increasing commercial revenue at BM assuming that off-field growth continues and that the Arena will allow much greater off field revenue.

LoidLucan
Posts: 2932
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm

Wasn't it always stated that a 4G pitch is the big money-spinner, which is what Mowden Park intend to lay at the Arena to boost their coffers.

Darlogramps
Posts: 4720
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

The Areana

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:24 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Craig Morley and David Johnston have both stated that within a couple of years we will have exhausted the possibilities of increasing commercial revenue at BM assuming that off-field growth continues and that the Arena will allow much greater off field revenue.
Well we’ll need all the money we can get given we’ll basically be paying for two grounds. Would love to know where this extra money is going to come from.

We’d have the lease on BM to settle, plus rent for the Arena. We’d have the issues around the grants for BM to resolve (don’t we have to pay them back if we leave BM?)

And I think a lot of people are conveniently neglecting the reputational damage it’ll do. Given our time at the Arena was a wretched disaster, how do we plan selling this to potential businesses and sponsors? Not to mention the fans it will turn away.

Moreover, anyone declaring there are greater commercial opportunities at the Arena is jumping the gun somewhat. We don’t yet know what Sporting Village will look like, how we fit into it, or what opportunities will be open to us.

And until the primacy of tenure and 4G pitch issues are resolved, the whole thing is a non-starter.

There are massive, fundamental issues with going to the Arena which none of its supporters on here have even begun to resolve. So while that’s the case, all we can do is wait for DJ et al to come up with their recommendations, and scrutinise it from there.

But I’m going to take a hell of a lot of persuading that moving to the Arena is best for our club.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Darlogramps
Posts: 4720
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:26 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:58 am
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:46 am
Can’t understand the love of Bishop Auckland
There is no love of Bishop, not so much love that anyone would rather play in Bishop than Darlington anyway.

It's only Darlo Pete saying he'd rather play in Bishop, just to be controversial.
I don't think I'm being controversial, I'm just expressing my opinion that's all or are we not allowed to express our own opinions on here anymore, if it contradicts what the majority want or feel on here?
Pete - you seemed to think being in the majority was the be all and end all, particularly when it came to Tommy Wright.

A bit of a volte face, wouldn’t you say?
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Ghost_Of_1883
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:33 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:52 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 pm
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:58 am
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:46 am
Can’t understand the love of Bishop Auckland
There is no love of Bishop, not so much love that anyone would rather play in Bishop than Darlington anyway.

It's only Darlo Pete saying he'd rather play in Bishop, just to be controversial.
I don't think I'm being controversial, I'm just expressing my opinion that's all or are we not allowed to express our own opinions on here anymore, if it contradicts what the majority want or feel on here?
You're allowed to express your opinion, and people are allowed to criticise it if they think it is bollocks, which I did.

You must be tapped if you really would honestly rather us play in Bishop at a ground that isn't suitable for the NLN, instead of in Darlington.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

Ghost_Of_1883
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:33 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:55 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm
Wasn't it always stated that a 4G pitch is the big money-spinner, which is what Mowden Park intend to lay at the Arena to boost their coffers.
But someone else was saying that in the end it wouldn't even be their own ground (nice of the council to buy the ground and bail them out if true!) so how would that work?
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

Darlopartisan
Posts: 683
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:49 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Darlopartisan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:24 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm
Wasn't it always stated that a 4G pitch is the big money-spinner, which is what Mowden Park intend to lay at the Arena to boost their coffers.
“intend to lay” I thought they already play on a 4g pitch, might be wrong though.

quakersfan
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:26 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by quakersfan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:30 pm

A visit by the current league in next few weeks apparently to both grounds to view set up, surely they will see the Arena as a proper football stadium. After all the talk something may be happening.

H1987
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by H1987 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:35 pm

A death sentence for the club. Never never never.

trevstanley
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:04 am
Team Supported: Newcastle

Re: The Areana

Post by trevstanley » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:38 pm

as an outsider , can i add my threepenneth worth and ask if it has ever been considered to take the Arena and reduce the capacity to say 10000 by halving all the stands and using the space created for things like offices , hotel , restaurants etc. ?

lo36789
Posts: 8130
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Liverpool

Re: The Areana

Post by lo36789 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:06 am

There is something in ground grading about there being capacity on different sides of the ground I think?

Aren’t we creeping towards recession at the moment as well (depends what growth is like in Q3) not sure what capacity there is left for hotels and restaurants in Darlington in current climate.

H1987
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by H1987 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:48 am

The thing is, the rugby club, or whoever owns the damned thing don’t seem to want to reduce it’s size, because of the half baked notion that people want to use it for gigs, or a multitude of other nonsense that Darlington doesn’t need, or have the demand for.

It just needs knocking down. You could theoretically make something useful out of it if you kept the main stand and bulldozed the rest, but it’d require both a lot of money and will to do so. Not to mention there are businesses in other parts of the stadium, artificially propping it up.

Not only financially is it ruinous, I don’t want to go back to watching us in a crap, plastic bowl. Size appropriate where I feel connected with the team and club will always beat the experience that thing will generate.

I sincerely hope all talk of it is simply the club using it as a negotiating tool for a better arrangement at Blackwell.

LoidLucan
Posts: 2932
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:47 am

The Arena still has a grass pitch and the stadium itself is sorely in need of painting as it is looking a real rusting hulk now. Can you imagine how much a full paint job would cost. Mowden Park's average crowd last season was 887 in the 25,500 capacity stadium.

Darlo_Pete
Posts: 12004
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:13 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:57 am

LoidLucan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:47 am
The Arena still has a grass pitch and the stadium itself is sorely in need of painting as it is looking a real rusting hulk now. Can you imagine how much a full paint job would cost. Mowden Park's average crowd last season was 887 in the 25,500 capacity stadium.
Does anybody know what DMP charge to attend a home game? Clearly with that size of crowds there is no way they can cover the costs of effectively being in a national league and pay players on a semi-pro basis. Clearly the sums don't add up and it is only a question of when and not if they go bust.

LoidLucan
Posts: 2932
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:04 am

You can buy an adult season ticket which equates to £9.66 a game. I think it also covers other benefits. A season ticket equates to £8.33 a game for concessions. It's free entry for Under-16s for all Mowden Park games at the Arena. Free parking at the ground as well.

User avatar
Kalu
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Kalu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:49 am

LoidLucan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:47 am
The Arena still has a grass pitch and the stadium itself is sorely in need of painting as it is looking a real rusting hulk now. Can you imagine how much a full paint job would cost. Mowden Park's average crowd last season was 887 in the 25,500 capacity stadium.
Would imagine as part of the SV developments that the arena would get a paint job & new seating - all dependent on what its main usage will be.

It would look pretty grubby next to a load of new builds in the state it's currently in.

lo36789
Posts: 8130
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Liverpool

Re: The Areana

Post by lo36789 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:49 am

Are sporting villages notorious money making machines?

I still really struggle to see where the payout comes from the venture - especially if they are handing over the majority of assets to other sports clubs to use for their commercial benefit.

That said the point above about it all being compensation for some housing project probably stacks up. Does feel like a fair bit of green space will probably go in the aim of a village where everything is together (is Eastbourne in the mix as well?)

LoidLucan
Posts: 2932
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 am

These kind of things are usually only attractive/feasible for football clubs when local councils and private investors come together to plan a community stadium with other developments as at York and Leamington. In those cases it would involve building an appropriately sized stadium fit for purpose for sports clubs to use. You wouldn't re-use a ridiculous, failing, giant white elephant and nor would you say to a football club: "Here's a piece of empty land, good luck, off you go."

Yarblockos
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:19 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by Yarblockos » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am

Generating the millions needed to rebuild BM or build a stadium at the SV from scratch is not going to happen. If we ever want to progress beyond where we are then we can't stay at BM. I'm pretty sure DJ has already come to this conclusion.

al_quaker
Posts: 5367
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:51 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by al_quaker » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:24 am

Yarblockos wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am
Generating the millions needed to rebuild BM or build a stadium at the SV from scratch is not going to happen.
Wait until our FA cup run this season :lol:

spen666
Posts: 1627
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:43 am

Yarblockos wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am
Generating the millions needed to rebuild BM or build a stadium at the SV from scratch is not going to happen. If we ever want to progress beyond where we are then we can't stay at BM. I'm pretty sure DJ has already come to this conclusion.
What options are left for the club to progress if you rule out the SV and redeveloping BM on cost grounds?

LoidLucan
Posts: 2932
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:29 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:59 am

He hasn't ruled out the SV... he's in favour of playing at the Arena if that can be sorted.

H1987
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by H1987 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:23 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am
Generating the millions needed to rebuild BM or build a stadium at the SV from scratch is not going to happen. If we ever want to progress beyond where we are then we can't stay at BM. I'm pretty sure DJ has already come to this conclusion.
Absolute nonsense. It's 700 shy of the required capacity for the national league, which is *easily* achievable. So that is progress in itself.

I'm assuming you mean the football league, which is way off right now. For that, we need 5,000 with 2,000 seats. Which is more problematic, but is *still* feasible at Blackwell, and cheaper than building something from scratch anywhere else. The issue of course, is that fundamental mistakes were made when we moved to Blackwell, which were avoidable. The tinshed not being deep enough, the seated stand not being deep enough... We prioritised short term convenience over long term planning a little. But it was either that, or chuck money at Heritage Park.

We made the right call.

spen666
Posts: 1627
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:35 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:59 am
He hasn't ruled out the SV... he's in favour of playing at the Arena if that can be sorted.
Thanks,

JasonDeVos
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:51 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by JasonDeVos » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:35 pm

H1987 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:23 pm
Yarblockos wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am
Generating the millions needed to rebuild BM or build a stadium at the SV from scratch is not going to happen. If we ever want to progress beyond where we are then we can't stay at BM. I'm pretty sure DJ has already come to this conclusion.
Absolute nonsense. It's 700 shy of the required capacity for the national league, which is *easily* achievable. So that is progress in itself.

I'm assuming you mean the football league, which is way off right now. For that, we need 5,000 with 2,000 seats. Which is more problematic, but is *still* feasible at Blackwell, and cheaper than building something from scratch anywhere else. The issue of course, is that fundamental mistakes were made when we moved to Blackwell, which were avoidable. The tinshed not being deep enough, the seated stand not being deep enough... We prioritised short term convenience over long term planning a little. But it was either that, or chuck money at Heritage Park.

We made the right call.
This is spot on. We need the arena to be someone else’s problem. The crux of the issue is the attitude of the rugby club.

H1987
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by H1987 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:41 pm

JasonDeVos wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:35 pm
H1987 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:23 pm
Yarblockos wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am
Generating the millions needed to rebuild BM or build a stadium at the SV from scratch is not going to happen. If we ever want to progress beyond where we are then we can't stay at BM. I'm pretty sure DJ has already come to this conclusion.
Absolute nonsense. It's 700 shy of the required capacity for the national league, which is *easily* achievable. So that is progress in itself.

I'm assuming you mean the football league, which is way off right now. For that, we need 5,000 with 2,000 seats. Which is more problematic, but is *still* feasible at Blackwell, and cheaper than building something from scratch anywhere else. The issue of course, is that fundamental mistakes were made when we moved to Blackwell, which were avoidable. The tinshed not being deep enough, the seated stand not being deep enough... We prioritised short term convenience over long term planning a little. But it was either that, or chuck money at Heritage Park.

We made the right call.
This is spot on. We need the arena to be someone else’s problem. The crux of the issue is the attitude of the rugby club.
Yep. I hope what we are doing is using the Arena, or the illusion that we might be prepared to move there, as leverage for a better deal from the rugby club, rather than a serious proposition. A lot of our fans have very negative feelings towards the place, it's not just me. Some things aren't right with Blackwell, and ultimately the rugby club might need reminding that they are only avoiding financial ruin by hosting us. I don't want to see us push them out, as i think that'd be grossly unfair to them, but it'd be nice to build a positive relationship with them.

User avatar
divas
Posts: 12920
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:38 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: The Areana

Post by divas » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:59 pm

We’ll need to find somewhere eventually. Can anyone really see the rugby club agreeing another license for us to play there when this one is up and they’ve cleared their debts?

Post Reply