Small clubs in the north west

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:20 pm

Yeah, because some girl stood him up or something he had it in for Bolton Wanderers.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by ralphb » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:54 pm

Should the Neville brothers have been supporting their home town team rather than Salford? In their position, I would have been supporting DFC, not the area of a City I had been employed.

I worked in Newcastle and would go to home games at St James, with financial clout available to them I would not have considered supporting North Shields as an example.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by don'tbuythesun » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:45 pm

Geographically, I'm pretty sure Old Trafford isn't in Salford. I suppose they have the right to buy into any club and chose Salford but 7 of them are involved, not just the Neville brothers.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by OnTheTerraces » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:38 am

Neville can hold his head up high, under no circumstances should he have been expected to get involved with Bury. Remember that Neville is just the frontman of a team of 7 who make up Salford. By himself he’s got no where near enough money to run a football club, he couldn’t help them.

I suppose the class of 92/Lim wanted a club with no baggage and one they could put their stamp on. Their own ground, their own history and their own legacy. Like it or not who can blame them. Salford is a large city with massive potential, they could get 10,000 fans with the right success.

Bury got in the situation they are by overspending over several directorships not just this heartless muppet that put the final nail in the coffin. Directors need to be accountable and agents demanding ridiculous wages need to take a long hard look at themselves too. As do the managers/directors who agree to these wage demands.

League football is rotten, very poor footballers in league 2 earning thousands a week.

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Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:03 am

ralphb wrote:Should the Neville brothers have been supporting their home town team rather than Salford? In their position, I would have been supporting DFC, not the area of a City I had been employed.

I worked in Newcastle and would go to home games at St James, with financial clout available to them I would not have considered supporting North Shields as an example.
Why do you think they (and presumably everyone else) have to support their hometown club? Lots of people born in a particular town/city have no affinity to its club(s).

People can support whoever they like, for whatever reason they like. It’s not for anyone else like you to lecture them on which club they should support or invest in.

And let’s not kid ourselves, if they’d invested in Bury like they have Salford, people would still be twisting on about that.
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by EDJOHNS » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:22 am

OnTheTerraces wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:38 am
Neville can hold his head up high, under no circumstances should he have been expected to get involved with Bury. Remember that Neville is just the frontman of a team of 7 who make up Salford. By himself he’s got no where near enough money to run a football club, he couldn’t help them.

I suppose the class of 92/Lim wanted a club with no baggage and one they could put their stamp on. Their own ground, their own history and their own legacy. Like it or not who can blame them. Salford is a large city with massive potential, they could get 10,000 fans with the right success.

Bury got in the situation they are by overspending over several directorships not just this heartless muppet that put the final nail in the coffin. Directors need to be accountable and agents demanding ridiculous wages need to take a long hard look at themselves too. As do the managers/directors who agree to these wage demands.

League football is rotten, very poor footballers in league 2 earning thousands a week.
Totally agree with this apart from the bit about Neville not having the clout on his own. If you check out his portfolio it is pretty impressive. Quite possibly he could have got them this far on his own but this would probably be his limit before looking for help.
I think he does a good job as front man, but if you notice, every time they hit TV at least 3 of them, Him Scholes and Butt are there, and all 3 involved standing with fans rather than in the boardroom.
I also think the fact the 6 of them not including Lim have been together as friends for so many years decreases the likelihood of them getting fed up and walking. To have a club in that position in this day and age has to be a good example.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:34 am

ralphb wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:54 pm
Should the Neville brothers have been supporting their home town team rather than Salford? In their position, I would have been supporting DFC, not the area of a City I had been employed.

I worked in Newcastle and would go to home games at St James, with financial clout available to them I would not have considered supporting North Shields as an example.
The Neville’s couldn’t have put money in or helped even if they had wanted to. Because of their links to Salford it’s against league rules.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Beano » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:02 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:34 am
ralphb wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:54 pm
Should the Neville brothers have been supporting their home town team rather than Salford? In their position, I would have been supporting DFC, not the area of a City I had been employed.

I worked in Newcastle and would go to home games at St James, with financial clout available to them I would not have considered supporting North Shields as an example.
The Neville’s couldn’t have put money in or helped even if they had wanted to. Because of their links to Salford it’s against league rules.
I don't comprehend the 'he/she/they' should have helped argument. Why do football clubs have a god given right to be bailed out when failing?

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:05 pm

I'm sure they will be back like we were. I just wish we'd maintained our momentum as we've now reached our level unless someone is prepared to invest serious money and supprters can accept it and relenquish a bit of power. Otherwise we'll never get back in the football league.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:20 pm

Darlo_lad wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:05 pm
I'm sure they will be back like we were. I just wish we'd maintained our momentum as we've now reached our level unless someone is prepared to invest serious money and supprters can accept it and relenquish a bit of power. Otherwise we'll never get back in the football league.
New account and first post is "we will never get back to the football league unless the current fans group owners relinquish power". Go on then I will bite :)

So another club has gone under due to a dodgy owner and you think this is the best time to discuss relinquishing power as fans owned club, to have that risk for ourselves :wtf:

How do you relinquish a little bit of power then, talk me through safeguarding the club and allowing to relinquish power. Have you thought this one through?

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:39 pm

Joseph Cala and Steve Dale (and many others) are likely to be looking round for their next victim.... sorry I mean club to invest in with guarantees of a bright new future and cast-iron financial commitments in place.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Alfie » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:33 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:20 pm
Darlo_lad wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:05 pm
I'm sure they will be back like we were. I just wish we'd maintained our momentum as we've now reached our level unless someone is prepared to invest serious money and supprters can accept it and relenquish a bit of power. Otherwise we'll never get back in the football league.
New account and first post is "we will never get back to the football league unless the current fans group owners relinquish power". Go on then I will bite :)

So another club has gone under due to a dodgy owner and you think this is the best time to discuss relinquishing power as fans owned club, to have that risk for ourselves :wtf:

How do you relinquish a little bit of power then, talk me through safeguarding the club and allowing to relinquish power. Have you thought this one through?
Unbelievable, Les.

Be interested to see any coherent response to your last questions.

What I don't understand when we get things like this is its never explained what such people think would be an acceptable level before we plateau. At present this looks like NLN with maybe an odd foray into NL - although with the daft money being thrown around that maybe is unlikely. Unless we were to get the Saudi sovereign wealth fund behind us any benefactor/investor/sugar daddy will have a limit on how much they're able or willing to put into a club, and that will generally set a practical limit as to how far up the pyramid a club can go. The football league is often quoted as being the promised land, but how long before people get bored or frustrated that we have plateaud in div 2, and need big investment to progress.

The Bury debacle and the near miss for Bolton has further convinced me that, albeit out of necessity, we have a sustainable, accountable funding model and it would be suicidal to contemplate changing it.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:43 pm

The recent renewals communication from dfcsg emphasise the point and even mention Bolton & Bury.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:01 pm

The guy probably is one of the fan-owned club moaners on The Tin Shed. It's in reality just an empty vacuous soundbite guaranteed to get a few Neanderthal responses.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:34 pm

Change the constitution to allow a 50% owner. The football league is where darlo belongs, the longer we stay in this league the more likely the next generation of fans will be lost. It requires the fans group to take the plunge and relinquish some control but without it we will slowly wither.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:44 am

Think it is a wind up. Has to be.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by jjljks » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:19 am

Darlo_lad wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:34 pm
Change the constitution to allow a 50% owner. The football league is where darlo belongs, the longer we stay in this league the more likely the next generation of fans will be lost. It requires the fans group to take the plunge and relinquish some control but without it we will slowly wither.
Obviously prorogue - like Cala or Dale🤣

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:38 am

It's just my opinion supported for 35 years. I See a generation of young kids never going to a darlo match. If someone was out there willing to invest it should be seriously looked at.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:50 am

Darlo_lad wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:38 am
It's just my opinion supported for 35 years. I See a generation of young kids never going to a darlo match. If someone was out there willing to invest it should be seriously looked at.
You see that in every town and city up and down the country irrespective of whether there is a rich owner investing or not in their local club. The reasons for this are complex and are not related to whether the club has a rich owner or not investing in the club.

I am pretty sure if a survey were done of those kids you refer to, the lack of a rich investor wouldn't be top of their list of reasons for not going

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Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:57 am

Darlo_lad wrote:It's just my opinion supported for 35 years. I See a generation of young kids never going to a darlo match. If someone was out there willing to invest it should be seriously looked at.
If someone was out there, they would have come forward by now. I’m intrigued that people cling to the idea there’s a mega-rich businessman waiting out in the ether. Who, pray tell, is this mystery man or woman who wants to invest so much money into us? Give us a name.

The only person that’s ever come forward was Raj Singh, the man who tried to destroy the club previously. And he soon ran away like the thin-skinned coward he is when people questioned his motives.

Nor do I subscribe to the idea we “belong” in the Football League. We haven’t been there for nine years and counting. We no more belong in the EFL than Salford, Arsenal, Wrexham, Bishop Auckland, Hereford or St Asaphs U13s. Time moves on and we have no right to be in the EFL unless it is earned through National League promotion. Being a historical EFL member doesn’t grant you special privileges now. Just ask Bury.
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by FozzQuaker » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:34 am

Peterborough Chairman Darragh MacAnthony posted a video on YouTube pushing an idea to the EFL to have a charter to run a football club.

Not sure what I make of it to be honest, I am not really wise to business law, but it made for interesting listening

[video]https://youtu.be/PwN1A38V65o[/video]

Over to you Spen, to pick it apart.



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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:43 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:57 am
If someone was out there, they would have come forward by now. I’m intrigued that people cling to the idea there’s a mega-rich businessman waiting out in the ether. Who, pray tell, is this mystery man or woman who wants to invest so much money into us? Give us a name.
I'll give you one, how about Steve Dale? He's got money and experience in running a football, in fact he managed to get Bury promoted last season.

What could possibly go wrong.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:26 am

There is no one who has come forward at the moment but if the fans group said they would be willing, provided all checks done etc there might be. No one has a right to any league status but that is what we should aspire to otherwise we will wither slowly.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Yarblockos » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:38 am

Given our attendances, we could certainly be competitive in the NL. The problem is we also have to fund the building of a ground. This has already taken a large amount from the playing budget through the 500 club. Give us a ready built ground and we'd be in a much stronger position.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:41 am

Darlo_lad wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:26 am
There is no one who has come forward at the moment but if the fans group said they would be willing, provided all checks done etc there might be. No one has a right to any league status but that is what we should aspire to otherwise we will wither slowly.
It's strange that you have picked a thread primarily about 2 football clubs going bust due to mismanagement - to place down your opinion that we should consider a rich benefactor.

Do you not realise that these type of people always require a controlling interest, otherwise what's the point?

In fact at the infamous fans forum where Martin Gray introduced his famous mystery investor (Singh) Gray himself said that night that Singh would not come in unless he acquired 51% or more of the club.

In other words you can't have your cake without choking on it!
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by carlodarlo » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:43 am

The club does aspire to get back into the football league, Its been said on many occasions. Otherwise there would be no point in the football club existing if that wasn't the long term aim. However it wont be done by someone spending millions of there own money because there isn't anyone out there willing to do it. That is a fact otherwise said person would have already come forward! Fan owned, rogue owner free, steadily building until we are in a position to go higher will do for me and I know that every Saturday I will have a football match for my home town to go and watch. Enjoy the ride mate instead of moaning on about an imaginary investor!

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by al_quaker » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:58 am

Do I wish that we would romp further up the pyramid? Absolutely. Do I wish we could afford a proper football stadium again? Absolutely. Do I yearn for the relevance of being a professional football legue club again? Absolutely.

Would I relinquish the control that we have over our long term future on promises that an individual would deliver the above? Absolutely not. As we could very easily end up in the hands of someone like Raj Singh or Steve Dale again.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:19 am

Darlo_lad wrote:There is no one who has come forward at the moment but if the fans group said they would be willing, provided all checks done etc there might be. No one has a right to any league status but that is what we should aspire to otherwise we will wither slowly.
So we don’t “belong” in the EFL as you said, and there’s no one waiting with money for us. Now you’re getting there.

Next question, why should we change the club structure, which has in part led to us reaching some form of financial stability, in favour of handing control to a hypothetical owner who may or may not even exist?

If someone wants to invest, we have the mechanism by which to do so, without putting our club at risk of another Singh or Dale.
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:36 am

carlodarlo wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:43 am
The club does aspire to get back into the football league, Its been said on many occasions. Otherwise there would be no point in the football club existing if that wasn't the long term aim.
I am not sure I buy into the idea that the point of football clubs existing is to compete in the football league.

There is a much broader social / community aspect to a football club which is far more important than what division they compete in.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by MB86DFC » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am

If a long term fan won the Euromillions I may be persuaded to consider letting 50% go, but never to another Reynolds / Singh / Houghton etc.

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