Small clubs in the north west

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Darlo_lad
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:59 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:24 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:01 am
Darlo_lad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 am
biccynana wrote:
Darlo_lad wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:57 pm
someone has a different opinion from the usual view on here and everyone is keen to shut them down. Its that attitude that would scare off any potemtial investor. 100 years in the NLN?? that's ambition for you.
We've got a funny way of shutting you down haven't we: engaging with you and debating the issue.
Come to the conclusion this guy is a troll.

Too much hyperbole, repeats his “I’ve been a Darlo fan for 35 years” way too much, as if he’s trying too hard. Has admitted no one is there with money, ignores that the mechanism is there for people to invest. Pops on to a thread about one man destroying a club and with a new account calls for the same for us.

Claims to have been a fan for 35 years but has no sense or acknowledgement about our last 15 years. Acknowledges there’s no investor waiting but insists we change the entire fundamentals of our club anyway. He’s now starting to make insults about the entire fan base. Just repeats his own points than engaging with counter arguments.

This is someone on a wind up. Whoever this is, they’ve never been to a Darlo game in their life.

That's unbelievable how am i a troll. I go every week and have since Cyril Knowles. I only mentioned how long I'd been a fan after being accused of never having been to a match (an accusation you have just repeated). How did you want me to respond? I have an opinion based on all those years suporting , just because I haven't been on here before or because it's not the same as others view on this thread doesn't make it not valid. Fans have different opinions on players and the club you hear them every week at games. My point is unless we are open to the right kind of investment we will never progress. Some are happy with that, i want more. I've supported them since i was a kid, it's where i was first took to by my dad and grandad, it's my home town team. The last 15 years have taught us we have to be careful who we get to invest but since we now run the club we can be. We just need to be open to the idea. Anyway you're not going to change my opinion and I'm not going to change yours. Enjoy your day.
Everything of the last 15 years tells us handing over to one person in search of quick wins doesn’t work. Three times it’s happened to us and you want it to happen again.

You’re monumentally deluded if you think young fans are staying away because we’re not in League 2. Games against Scunthorpe, Stevenage and Morecambe aren’t going get them flocking in. Our attendances declined last time we were in League Two. It isn’t the paradise you say.

If someone wants to invest, they can invest. But changing our structure, which has led us to a period of comparative financial stability, would be reckless.

Anyway, I still don’t believe you’re an actual Darlington fan. Too much banging on about how long you’ve supported the club. You’re trying way too hard.
More insults when you are confronted with a different opinion. Can you not understand some darlo fans think differently to you? You're a real loss to politics. Agree to disagree.
Last edited by Darlo_lad on Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Darlo_lad
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:59 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:26 am

No i mean the current division 2. Our gates were shocking under staunton because we were rock bottom all season with no hope of staying up.

Darlogramps
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:36 am

Darlo_lad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:01 am
Darlo_lad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 am
biccynana wrote: We've got a funny way of shutting you down haven't we: engaging with you and debating the issue.
Come to the conclusion this guy is a troll.

Too much hyperbole, repeats his “I’ve been a Darlo fan for 35 years” way too much, as if he’s trying too hard. Has admitted no one is there with money, ignores that the mechanism is there for people to invest. Pops on to a thread about one man destroying a club and with a new account calls for the same for us.

Claims to have been a fan for 35 years but has no sense or acknowledgement about our last 15 years. Acknowledges there’s no investor waiting but insists we change the entire fundamentals of our club anyway. He’s now starting to make insults about the entire fan base. Just repeats his own points than engaging with counter arguments.

This is someone on a wind up. Whoever this is, they’ve never been to a Darlo game in their life.

That's unbelievable how am i a troll. I go every week and have since Cyril Knowles. I only mentioned how long I'd been a fan after being accused of never having been to a match (an accusation you have just repeated). How did you want me to respond? I have an opinion based on all those years suporting , just because I haven't been on here before or because it's not the same as others view on this thread doesn't make it not valid. Fans have different opinions on players and the club you hear them every week at games. My point is unless we are open to the right kind of investment we will never progress. Some are happy with that, i want more. I've supported them since i was a kid, it's where i was first took to by my dad and grandad, it's my home town team. The last 15 years have taught us we have to be careful who we get to invest but since we now run the club we can be. We just need to be open to the idea. Anyway you're not going to change my opinion and I'm not going to change yours. Enjoy your day.
Everything of the last 15 years tells us handing over to one person in search of quick wins doesn’t work. Three times it’s happened to us and you want it to happen again.

You’re monumentally deluded if you think young fans are staying away because we’re not in League 2. Games against Scunthorpe, Stevenage and Morecambe aren’t going get them flocking in. Our attendances declined last time we were in League Two. It isn’t the paradise you say.

If someone wants to invest, they can invest. But changing our structure, which has led us to a period of comparative financial stability, would be reckless.

Anyway, I still don’t believe you’re an actual Darlington fan. Too much banging on about how long you’ve supported the club. You’re trying way too hard.
More insults when you are confronted with a different opinion. Can you not understand some darlo fans think differently to you? You're a real loss to politics. Agree to disagree.
Seems you’re happy to dish out the insults, but get defensive when people give you some back.

I fully understand some fans think differently. Indeed I can respect those opinions when they’re based on facts and reasoning.

You’ve not provided any reasoning or facts to back up your opinion. Just nostalgia, idealism and contradictions. Don’t assume that because you have an opinion, it automatically makes it worthwhile. A bad opinion like yours deserves to be called out. If you can’t take that, back yourself up, don’t cry because things are getting a bit rough.

And given you’ve insulted large swathes of the fanbase in this thread, don’t take the moral high ground.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Darlogramps
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:42 am

Darlo_lad wrote:No i mean the current division 2. Our gates were shocking under staunton because we were rock bottom all season with no hope of staying up.
Our crowds steadily declined from moving to the Arena and becoming a basket case of club, associated with poor financial management (largely because control was placed with people who didn’t have the club’s interests at heart - and you want to go back to that model).

Then we spent four years out of town, losing a connection with the fanbase.

That’s why spending millions we can’t sustain (and we would have to spend millions to reach the EFL) isn’t a good plan. Reaching the EFL wouldn’t cover that, nor would it bring back the fans we lost.

Only reconnecting with the fanbase properly will do that, not with the boom and bust approach you’re advocating.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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tdk1
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:21 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by tdk1 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am

Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.

Vodka_Vic
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:27 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:46 am

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/bury ... rt-county/

Great feature on Darlo here with some comments by our own Wayne Raper.

spen666
Posts: 1631
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:11 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am
Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.


Can't disagree with much in that post.

biccynana
Posts: 605
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:38 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by biccynana » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am
Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.
Yep, that's about the measure of it. Very, very nicely put, tdk1.

Darlo_lad reminds me of Boris Johnson - don't worry about the detail and the boring stuff, just aspire to it, wish for it, hope for it, think happy thoughts, be ambitious, and it (whether that be Brexit or promotion up the pyramid) will just happen.

Darlo_lad
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:59 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:58 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:36 am
Darlo_lad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:01 am
Darlo_lad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 am


Come to the conclusion this guy is a troll.

Too much hyperbole, repeats his “I’ve been a Darlo fan for 35 years” way too much, as if he’s trying too hard. Has admitted no one is there with money, ignores that the mechanism is there for people to invest. Pops on to a thread about one man destroying a club and with a new account calls for the same for us.

Claims to have been a fan for 35 years but has no sense or acknowledgement about our last 15 years. Acknowledges there’s no investor waiting but insists we change the entire fundamentals of our club anyway. He’s now starting to make insults about the entire fan base. Just repeats his own points than engaging with counter arguments.

This is someone on a wind up. Whoever this is, they’ve never been to a Darlo game in their life.

That's unbelievable how am i a troll. I go every week and have since Cyril Knowles. I only mentioned how long I'd been a fan after being accused of never having been to a match (an accusation you have just repeated). How did you want me to respond? I have an opinion based on all those years suporting , just because I haven't been on here before or because it's not the same as others view on this thread doesn't make it not valid. Fans have different opinions on players and the club you hear them every week at games. My point is unless we are open to the right kind of investment we will never progress. Some are happy with that, i want more. I've supported them since i was a kid, it's where i was first took to by my dad and grandad, it's my home town team. The last 15 years have taught us we have to be careful who we get to invest but since we now run the club we can be. We just need to be open to the idea. Anyway you're not going to change my opinion and I'm not going to change yours. Enjoy your day.
Everything of the last 15 years tells us handing over to one person in search of quick wins doesn’t work. Three times it’s happened to us and you want it to happen again.

You’re monumentally deluded if you think young fans are staying away because we’re not in League 2. Games against Scunthorpe, Stevenage and Morecambe aren’t going get them flocking in. Our attendances declined last time we were in League Two. It isn’t the paradise you say.

If someone wants to invest, they can invest. But changing our structure, which has led us to a period of comparative financial stability, would be reckless.

Anyway, I still don’t believe you’re an actual Darlington fan. Too much banging on about how long you’ve supported the club. You’re trying way too hard.
More insults when you are confronted with a different opinion. Can you not understand some darlo fans think differently to you? You're a real loss to politics. Agree to disagree.
Seems you’re happy to dish out the insults, but get defensive when people give you some back.

I fully understand some fans think differently. Indeed I can respect those opinions when they’re based on facts and reasoning.

You’ve not provided any reasoning or facts to back up your opinion. Just nostalgia, idealism and contradictions. Don’t assume that because you have an opinion, it automatically makes it worthwhile. A bad opinion like yours deserves to be called out. If you can’t take that, back yourself up, don’t cry because things are getting a bit rough.

And given you’ve insulted large swathes of the fanbase in this thread, don’t take the moral high ground.
The facts are that unless the club makes it clear it would happily take investment it never will. My opinion is my opinion. Like i said agree to disagree you have your view i have mine, but don't think just because it's not the same as yours doesnt mean a) I'm not a darlo fan and b) it's a bad opinion.

Darlo_lad
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:59 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm

biccynana wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 pm
tdk1 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am
Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.
Yep, that's about the measure of it. Very, very nicely put, tdk1.

Darlo_lad reminds me of Boris Johnson - don't worry about the detail and the boring stuff, just aspire to it, wish for it, hope for it, think happy thoughts, be ambitious, and it (whether that be Brexit or promotion up the pyramid) will just happen.
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.

biccynana
Posts: 605
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:38 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by biccynana » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:13 pm

Darlo_lad wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm
biccynana wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 pm
tdk1 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am
Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.
Yep, that's about the measure of it. Very, very nicely put, tdk1.

Darlo_lad reminds me of Boris Johnson - don't worry about the detail and the boring stuff, just aspire to it, wish for it, hope for it, think happy thoughts, be ambitious, and it (whether that be Brexit or promotion up the pyramid) will just happen.
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.
Still no real answers then?

Darlogramps
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:35 pm

Darlo_lad wrote:
The facts are that unless the club makes it clear it would happily take investment it never will.
More inaccuracies. The club is willing to accept investment. The mechanisms for this are all laid out there, for all to see. And when Raj Singh came forward, the club opened up the possibility of accepting his investment.

Why are you wilfully misrepresenting the facts? Well it’s because you’re not actually a Darlo fan - otherwise you’d have known this.
Darlo_lad wrote: My opinion is my opinion. Like i said agree to disagree you have your view i have mine, but don't think just because it's not the same as yours doesnt mean a) I'm not a darlo fan and b) it's a bad opinion.
Nothing to do with it being different to mine. It’s to do with your opinion not being based on facts or reasoning. And the fact when I’ve ripped your opinion apart, you’ve run away crying.

There’s no facts, nothing to back yourself up. Just repeating the same boring cliches. Just because you hold an opinion doesn’t make it worthwhile. Not unless you can back yourself up - and you can’t.

But like I said, you’re simply a troll and not really a Darlo fan.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

Darlogramps
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:38 pm

biccynana wrote:
Darlo_lad wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm
biccynana wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 pm
tdk1 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am
Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.
Yep, that's about the measure of it. Very, very nicely put, tdk1.

Darlo_lad reminds me of Boris Johnson - don't worry about the detail and the boring stuff, just aspire to it, wish for it, hope for it, think happy thoughts, be ambitious, and it (whether that be Brexit or promotion up the pyramid) will just happen.
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.
Still no real answers then?
He hasn’t. The guy is a troll who’s never been to a Darlo game in his life.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:59 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:38 pm
biccynana wrote:
Darlo_lad wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm
biccynana wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 pm
tdk1 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:50 am
Right, I'll "engage".

What kind of "investor" do you want? One who will actually want to make money from their investment, which is what an investor is, or a sugar daddy who lumps money at the club with no hope of any financial return? Because A) would be a crap businessman, and B) would be a figment of your imagination.

There is no money to be made from lower league football clubs with few if any assets, and very few efl clubs break even. The next financial catastrophe is only a few months away. You can't make a profit from football club ownership at this level.

So you need somebody who will finance the club with no expectation of any return on it, which includes upgrading the stadium and funding a squad to get promoted twice. You cant guarantee success- spenny and brackley already have similar backing, and once your in the conference you're up against a mix of big clubs and bankrolled clubs. Let's generously say you need £3 million and a boatload of good luck to get promoted inside three years, and install the required upgrades to the ground just to get it up to spec.

Now you're in the league and you want to stay there. You probably need to "invest" another 500 grand on top of your regular income just to have a decent chance of staying up, but we're scratching about at the bottom of the league and crowds are maxing out at 1600 because were not near the top and our stadium isn't fit for the efl and is a rubbish place to watch football.

You, the investor, have no traditional connection to dfc, and the fans are mithering you to spend more money so You Can get up the league. But because the division is full of bankrolled or bigger clubs, thats going to cost you £1.5m, and even that will end in a failed play off campaign and the support is only at 2,300 a week. Also, we're in a recession and your business is struggling. You're in for 5m odd already, and the club will cost you an additional £1m to run next year because of the contracts you dished out to get up the league.

What do you do then? If you try to cut costs you're heading back out of the league with dwindling crowds, and the fans are furious with you. If you try to sell there's nobody out there to buy, except Joseph cala. So that leaves administration. You want a return on the money you wasted, but with football creditors needing to be paid in full, even if you accept 10p in the pound it will cost 1.5m to save the club. The fans just can't do it. Guess what happens.

Now, please explain to me another way that can go.
Yep, that's about the measure of it. Very, very nicely put, tdk1.

Darlo_lad reminds me of Boris Johnson - don't worry about the detail and the boring stuff, just aspire to it, wish for it, hope for it, think happy thoughts, be ambitious, and it (whether that be Brexit or promotion up the pyramid) will just happen.
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.
Still no real answers then?
He hasn’t. The guy is a troll who’s never been to a Darlo game in his life.
Someone disagrees with you so they must be a troll and not a true fan?? Whatever if that's your level of argument jog on

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:47 pm

Darlo_lad wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:38 pm
biccynana wrote:
Darlo_lad wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm
biccynana wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 pm
Yep, that's about the measure of it. Very, very nicely put, tdk1.

Darlo_lad reminds me of Boris Johnson - don't worry about the detail and the boring stuff, just aspire to it, wish for it, hope for it, think happy thoughts, be ambitious, and it (whether that be Brexit or promotion up the pyramid) will just happen.
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.
Still no real answers then?
He hasn’t. The guy is a troll who’s never been to a Darlo game in his life.
Someone disagrees with you so they must be a troll and not a true fan?? Whatever if that's your level of argument jog on
See my earlier post. Nothing to do with disagreeing. It’s to do with your alleged opinion not containing any facts, reasoning or sensible justification. Your opinion is full of holes, contradictions and self-delusion.

If you’re so thick as to not be able to understand that, you can jog on yourself, troll-boy.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:19 pm

Why do you keep using your and you about the club? If you are truly a fan you'd be saying us, we and our. We would consider outside investment and we already have many local businesses investing in the club with signs around the ground, shirt/short sponsors.

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Quaker85
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:00 pm

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 0911759360

A cautionary tale of professional club football finances...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

spen666
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:24 pm

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:00 pm
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 0911759360

A cautionary tale of professional club football finances...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An excellent read. Thanks for the link

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Quaker85
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Quaker85 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:25 pm

For those who haven’t read the report, our wage bill is currently approximately 10% of the median wage bill of a league 2 club.

The solidarity payment wouldn’t come close to bridging the gap either.


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real_darlo_85
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by real_darlo_85 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 pm

I have a lot of sympathy for Bury's plight. However, I'm not comfortable with this plan to just jump back into League 2 next season...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49558675
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

lo36789
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:42 pm

real_darlo_85 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 pm
I have a lot of sympathy for Bury's plight. However, I'm not comfortable with this plan to just jump back into League 2 next season...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49558675
I doubt it will pass. The EFL have expelled them. People will appeal for what they can because they might as well.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by mikkyx » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:19 pm

Darlo_lad wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.
And what do you suppose is going to happen to City when the oil money goes away?
Mike Price - @mikkyx
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One fifth of Darlo Fans Radio and one half of the Darlo Radio Football Show

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:54 pm

I don't think they'll end up in North West Counties Division 1! Not the best example.

lo36789
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:06 pm

I think it depends what happens from here.

If the club doesn’t go into liquidation, all assets are bought and all football debts are paid I think they could well restart in the National League.

If they are liquidated and restart as a new club (or supporters trust purchase the club out of liquidation - no idea where their football share is) then suspect they will restart in North West Counties Prem.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by shildonlad » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:19 am

Some could say the national league is too high but whats the chances of the club been bought especially if they cant regain control of the ground, its just a piece of paper without that. Dont think club would start at bottom of pyramid as that would be crazy more likely nwcl premier
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by H1987 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:41 pm

I have every sympathy for Bury, but i'm sorry, i can't agree that Bury should keep a football league place, while you relegate whoever finishes second bottom of league two. Who deserves the place more, the team that battled and finished 23rd, or a team that didn't compete at all? (Personally, i'd prefer they promoted an extra team from the conference, and still relegated two from League two, but that won't happen. The football league and conference should have greater mobility between the two, in my opinion).

My heart breaks for Bury fans, but they simply must begin at the level we did.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_lad » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:26 am

mikkyx wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:19 pm
Darlo_lad wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:01 pm
Dear me here's another comedian. Every club should have realistic ambition, it's what drives football. Just as well you lot weren't running man city when the oil money turned up.
And what do you suppose is going to happen to City when the oil money goes away?
That's right all they'll be left with is the millions of pounds spent on the training facilities and surrounding area, the memory of playing the best football in Europe and a generation of fans who now choose to support them and still will. Better warn them!!!

en passant
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by en passant » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:54 am

As our own club has been through the careless owner experience you can certainly sympathise with any set of fans, who like ourselves, hoped the control of the club was in safe hands. It is also clear to see how it is easy to get seduced by the availability of money to buy yourself some success. I still remember the chants from our own crowd at Feethams when we believed that George Reynolds was the Messiah. The cry of "We're so rich it's unbelievable" lives long in the memory. And clearly there are those at our club who would be willing, if the opportunity arose, to take a chance on another dream of the Promised Land of endless football success.

There seems to be little that can be done by the football authorities to prevent a wealthy potential owner taking over a club if the club is willing to get into bed with him or her. The best they can do is reinforce the message that bad owners can lead to bad outcomes if the magic money tree gets chopped down. If you speculate to accumulate at the bookies and lose your house due to making bad bets you cannot expect someone to say it's OK and give you a new house back as if nothing had gone wrong.

In the Bury situation it would send the wrong message, if they should be able to continue trading after a year long hiatus, to allow them back at the L2 level. They speculated too much to get a promotion and found that this was unsustainable and they are asking that the only penalty is a year off to stabilise their finances and then go back to where they were before they hit the crisis point . Surely this is no caution to other clubs who would be willing to take a chance on spending cash they do not have and hoping that it all turns out fine, knowing that if it didn't you could still take up again where you were with the only disappointment that you would lose a year's worth of football. Surely it would make no sense for the EFL to actively encourage such a move.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by shildonlad » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:02 am

THeres good and bad points of fan ownership im sure and the likes of bury prove its advantages, but one thing thats not been mentioned on here is the clubs that were rescued by fans after bad ownership who later accepted outside investment that they deemed suitable. Portsmouth and york are good examples of this. The fans must have done there homework and deemed it the best option. In my opinion the best model is a consortium with a mix of fans, local business men and investors, no single guy to carry the load and still a bit fan involvement
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by en passant » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:29 am

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:02 am
THeres good and bad points of fan ownership im sure and the likes of bury prove its advantages, but one thing thats not been mentioned on here is the clubs that were rescued by fans after bad ownership who later accepted outside investment that they deemed suitable. Portsmouth and york are good examples of this. The fans must have done there homework and deemed it the best option. In my opinion the best model is a consortium with a mix of fans, local business men and investors, no single guy to carry the load and still a bit fan involvement
I don't disagree with the overall sentiment of what you say about the best way to bring in more investment, if you can find the people willing to do so, but the idea of retaining "a bit of fan involvement" sounds like handing the majority shareholding to the group of local businessmen and investors. This would be fine if you think that this model could be writ in stone and never change and they remain benevolent in their wish to finance the club, but change will happen. Some of these folk will run out of willpower or cash. Some will pass on to new ventures. You then run the risk that one investor buys out their shares and becomes a sole owner, ending up with the dreaded position we have found ourselves in before. I don't know much about the situation at Portsmouth, but before the recent good start to this season I didn't detect too many York fans who were happy with their ownership model.

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