Small clubs in the north west

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Alfie
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Alfie » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:04 am

jjljks wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:40 am
Sadly, no more Shakers v Quakers games.
Hope they can become another successful phoenix club in the future.

Now that the first club this season has gone, what will the effects be on the pyramid? A number of other struggling clubs will be pushed closer to the brink as they lose out on revenue from the lost fixtures. Ripples down due to promotion, jobs lost on & off the pitch and fans bereft. Shame on the football for letting this issue get out of hand.
Assuming they restart in some form then even if they start well down the pyramid with their support it shouldn't be too long before they catch us up. - in fact more likely to meet them again in a few years than if they had found a way to stay a league club.

Hopefully in the future they wil be able to look back at this as the time they rid themseleves of a succesion of cowboys with no affinity to the club, or even football.

Beano
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Beano » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:40 am

Bury’s long term future will be defined by ownership of Gigg Lane.

If they keep hold of it, or lease it on reasonable terms, they’ll end up challenging in the Vanarama National. Without a decent ground, they’ll be no better off than us.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:43 am

Beano wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:40 am
Bury’s long term future will be defined by ownership of Gigg Lane.

If they keep hold of it, or lease it on reasonable terms, they’ll end up challenging in the Vanarama National. Without a decent ground, they’ll be no better off than us.
It's got a £1.6m (or something like that) mortgage against it, with no income to pay repayments.

What a mess.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by real_darlo_85 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:44 am

JE93 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:22 pm
Horrible news for both clubs if the worst is confirmed. The only light to be taken from it is that in these situations the football club will go back to where it belongs the fans. They will have their chance to start again and build something positive in their communities.

On a slightly different note it seems interesting that Bolton have been allowed to play games this season. Wycombe, Rochdale and Tranmere have benefitted from large away followings going into the coffers. All the other clubs in the league will receive nothing. Similarly if the worst is to happen most clubs are 2 games down in terms of finances. Hardly protecting the integrity of the competition, which is often the EFL's go to statement. This should never have been allowed to happen. While harsh, the national league rules are far more appropriate. Get your house in order by the AGM or you're out. Atleast then the supporters could have tried to mobilise to get a club in further down the pyramid rather than facing a season without football.
My suspicion has long been now given the handling of our previous plight and of other 'smaller' clubs, that the EFL/FA don't want to stain the Premier League. Look at Portsmouth a few years ago and Bolton now, they don't want to lose ex-Premier League clubs if they can and I suspect they fear it will be viewed negatively and it's about protecting the image.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:01 pm

I'm sure that even if Bolton survive, Bury will not be the last League club to go under, I'm just amazed it hasn't happened sooner.

spen666
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:28 pm

darlo_baron wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:23 am
spen666 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:27 am
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:46 am
spen666 wrote:
shildonlad wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:20 pm
Bury now expelled from efl. In my 25 year watching football this is the 1st time i can recall this happening
Maidstone in 1992/3 season were last expelled. They never played 1st fixture.

Aldershot were liquidated at end of 1991/2 season & therefore technically not expelled.
Just before i started watching football. Now a club has actually been removed from the efl for the first time since maidstone they will finally book there ideas up
Too late for Bury to buck up their ideas.

As for the EFL, it wasn't them that chose the reckless financial policy of spending more than they earn. Its not the EFL to blame, nor is it for the EFL to buck up their ideas. Its down to club owners to realise that spending more than the club has as income will bring about debt and ultimately financial ruin.

Clubs need to stop paying out stupid wages and pay what they can afford to pay...as seems now to be the policy DJ has introduced at DFC. It may mean fans have to be patient as regards progress, but it should stop the cycle of boom and bust.

Bury were paying one player £8k per week in League 2 last season! That is madness and its the club owner who agreed to that salary
The EFL let Steve Dale take over a club, when he has over 40 insolvencies associated with his businesses.

The EFL let Ken Anderson take over Bolton, when he has previously been banned as acting as a company director.

The EFL is not fit for purpose in this regard. Suspect individuals are continually allowed to take over football clubs and the EFL lets it happen.

….

The EFL have no legal power to stop anyone taking over a company, even a football club. The rules on ownership of companies are contained within the Company Act. Its all very well blaming the EFL, but you are blaming them for something they have no legal power to do.

all the EFL could do to Bolton or Bury was to expel them from their competition, which is what they have done to Bury. Yes, they could have expelled Bury last December instead, but that does nothing to save them

It is a horrid situation for any club's fans, but the blame is with the current and former owners who spent recklessly pushing the club into insolvency

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:31 pm

Beano wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:40 am
Bury’s long term future will be defined by ownership of Gigg Lane.

If they keep hold of it, or lease it on reasonable terms, they’ll end up challenging in the Vanarama National. Without a decent ground, they’ll be no better off than us.

If Bury or a phoenix club can't retain Gigg Lane, there are a number of suitable grounds nearby they could use, unlike in the NE where at the time there were no suitable grounds near Darlington for NLN standard or above.

They could even groundshare with a NPL league club, then later as they progressed move to an NLN or above club to groundshare with

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Norm_D_Ploom
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Norm_D_Ploom » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:45 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:01 pm
I'm sure that even if Bolton survive, Bury will not be the last League club to go under, I'm just amazed it hasn't happened sooner.
Perhaps it's better if Bolton do go. Maybe the fact that 2 clubs go in quick succession will be the spark that makes people realise that clubs can't spend what they don't have.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:18 pm

spen666 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:28 pm
all the EFL could do to Bolton or Bury was to expel them from their competition, which is what they have done to Bury. Yes, they could have expelled Bury last December instead, but that does nothing to save them
Unfortunately spen is talking sense with this one. The EFL have basically wielded the only power that they have which is expulsion if you are not fit and proper to be an owner - they have no right to re-possess a club from you based on that or anything.

I just read that the debt owed to the mortgage company could be up to £3.6million rather than £1.5million and has 6% interest rate having originally been 129% interest or something ridiculous in the first year (this was not set up by Dale it was set up by the person before him).

If Bury need to share they will likely end up at Radcliffe or something like that if they can't get into Gigg Lane and the ground grading they end up at may be the thing that determines what level they re-enter the pyramid. As I say it is a bit weird because as far as I am aware the club have been expelled from the EFL (the competition they are members of for season 2019/2020) but the FA football share still belongs to Dale and they are basically still signed up to their CVA...

I mean without any income this season that CVA will probably fall apart quite quickly but they are not in admin at the moment. The club actually still exists as does the company they just don't have a competition to play in.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by shildonlad » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:29 pm

So the efl dont have the power to stop bad owners? If bad owners fail there fit and proper test then theres far less chance they will take over a club, still ways round this such as the gateshead situation where a figure head came im but that sure werent the situation at bury
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

H1987
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by H1987 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:37 pm

I think the Bury fans probably just need to let it go and start again. A complete new, phoenix club and hopefully they'll be able to sort out an arrangement to play at Gigg Lane. After all, it's not really worth anything to anyone without a team playing there. I'm not really sure who owns it though. If it's some greedy so and so, sharing at Radcliffe for a bit might be a resolution. Either way, you can't kill a football club. We are proof of that.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:45 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:29 pm
So the efl dont have the power to stop bad owners? If bad owners fail there fit and proper test then theres far less chance they will take over a club, still ways round this such as the gateshead situation where a figure head came im but that sure werent the situation at bury
The only power the EFL have is the threat of expulsion from its competitions. This works for some prospective owners as they don't want to lose money on the asset they are buying ie generally a football company without a league place is worth less than with a league place

However in the case of an asset stripper like Dale, he has shown he has no interest in the football club surviving. I suspect his interest is actually served by there being no football club. That way he is more likely to get planning permission for an unused decaying football ground.

Then that is without the situation as happened at Gateshead.

None of this paints a particularly pleasant picture, but I am not sure how the FA/ EFL can fight market forces with the current laws of the land.

Anyone know a hitman or two?

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by murtonquaker » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:53 pm

It should be in the rules where the EFL could temporarily step in and take charge of a clubs affairs as a short term option. And to make sure fixtures can fulfilled, the EFL appeal to other clubs to nominate a few players from clubs and let them take there pick and take players on Short/Medium Term loans. I dont know why Bury could not have been put back into Administration, it is as if this is what Steve Dale has wanted all along.

Being able to loan players in would surely have helped Bury and Bolton, Bury would have been able to fulfill there fixtures and be able to generate some cash flow from Matchday Income and it would mean Bolton could have put a somewhat competitive team instead of having to rely on the Year 11 School team to turn out. Local teams in the Area should have been able to be in a position to loan players to the clubs in Crisis.

Ultimately, it is there creditors and fans I feel sorry, I know one of Burys creditors and it is not exactly pocket change he stands to lose.

Unfortunately, I dont think The FA, EFL or Premier League will do anything about to address this until one of there Darling Clubs go into a crisis.

Is it not about time Wage Caps were brought in at the lower levels, I'm Burys case, paying 8 grand a week to player in League 2 is shocking, and I guess it wont stop until the The FA, EFL, EPL and/or FIFA/UEFA do something about making Clubs control there finances.

I enjoyed my one and only visit to Gigg Lane in 2007, the same season I started to watch Darlo, we were supposed to play them on New Years Day, but it was either rained or snowed off and we ended up going down there about a Fortnight later, iirc correctly, I think it was Tommy Wrights first debut and he scored
Last edited by murtonquaker on Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lo36789
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:56 pm

Its actually an interesting one. If I am not mistaken Dale was fully within his rights after buying the club (which came with Gigg Lane...or a mortgage on Gigg Lane) to effectively close the football operations up.

It was only the covenants on land which really stop this which is why the likes of Raj Singh pretend to be interested in the football club when actually the football club was a bargaining chip to remove the land covenant. The fact Dale actually bothered running Bury football club to this point suggests Gigg Lane is somewhat protected.

lo36789
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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:04 pm

murtonquaker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:53 pm
Is it not about time Wage Caps were brought in at the lower levels, I'm Burys case, paying 8 grand a week to player in League 2 is shocking, and I guess it wont stop until the The FA, EFL, EPL and/or FIFA/UEFA do something about making Clubs control there finances
Again all they can do is what is in their power. FFP fails because all the Championship can do if a club falls foul of FFP is basically give them points deductions or financial penalties under competition rules but then what happens with accounting treatments.

All you would end up with is shell clubs loaning players to their first team clubs (see Watford actually when they got promoted. Their wage bill was effectively subsidised by an Italian club with shared owners). It is actually part of the principle of the whole City group ownership it is only a matter of time if City were to breach champions league FFP rules that their star names ended up behind closed doors sold to Melbourne City, New York City etc. and then loaned to City with zero wage contribution.

If you set up two companies. One has the football club within it with loads of players registered as assets of that company etc. and then a separate company which just happens to pay those players a salary...I am not sure if the third party ownership rules would prevent this mind and maybe that is part of their basis.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:07 pm

murtonquaker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:53 pm
It should be in the rules where the EFL could temporarily step in and take charge of a clubs affairs as a short term option.
That would be an illegal act by the EFL or the FA. They can no more take control of someone else's business than I can come into your house and order you how to run it.

Its nothing to do with the rules of the FA/ EFL, its to do with the laws of the land

And to make sure fixtures can fulfilled, the EFL appeal to other clubs to nominate a few players from clubs and let them take there pick and take players on Short/Medium Term loans. I dont know why Bury could not have been put back into Administration, it is as if this is what Steve Dale has wanted all along.
Who pays the huge costs of administration?

Being able to loan players in would surely have helped Bury and Bolton, Bury would have been able to fulfill there fixtures and be able to generate some cash flow from Matchday Income and it would mean Bolton could have put a somewhat competitive team instead of having to rely on the Year 11 School team to turn out. Local teams in the Area should have been able to be in a position to loan players to the clubs in Crisis.
Bury can't pay its existing players or for training facilities, so how can they afford wages for additional loan players.



Ultimately, it is there creditors and fans I feel sorry, I know one of Burys creditors and it is not exactly pocket change he stands to lose.

Unfortunately, I dont think The FA, EFL or Premier League will do anything about to address this until one of there Darling Clubs go into a crisis.
There is not a lot they can legally do unfortunately

Is it not about time Wage Caps were brought in at the lower levels, I'm Burys case, paying 8 grand a week to player in League 2 is shocking, and I guess it wont stop until the The FA, EFL, EPL and/or FIFA/UEFA do something about making Clubs control there finances.
Again a wage cap is an illegal restraint of trade. If a business wants to pay someone £8K per week, they have right to do that. The FPP was the nearest you can get to a wage cap in English Law

I enjoyed my one and only visit to Gigg Lane in 2007, the same season I started to watch Darlo, we were supposed to play them on New Years Day, but it was either rained or snowed off and we ended up going down there about a Fortnight later, iirc correctly, I think it was Tommy Wrights first debut and he scored
The whole thing is an awful situation, but there is in reality currently very little that can be done to stop someone like Dale who wants to asset strip

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by murtonquaker » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:21 pm

spen666 wrote:
murtonquaker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:53 pm
It should be in the rules where the EFL could temporarily step in and take charge of a clubs affairs as a short term option.
That would be an illegal act by the EFL or the FA. They can no more take control of someone else's business than I can come into your house and order you how to run it.

Its nothing to do with the rules of the FA/ EFL, its to do with the laws of the land

And to make sure fixtures can fulfilled, the EFL appeal to other clubs to nominate a few players from clubs and let them take there pick and take players on Short/Medium Term loans. I dont know why Bury could not have been put back into Administration, it is as if this is what Steve Dale has wanted all along.
Who pays the huge costs of administration?

Being able to loan players in would surely have helped Bury and Bolton, Bury would have been able to fulfill there fixtures and be able to generate some cash flow from Matchday Income and it would mean Bolton could have put a somewhat competitive team instead of having to rely on the Year 11 School team to turn out. Local teams in the Area should have been able to be in a position to loan players to the clubs in Crisis.
Bury can't pay its existing players or for training facilities, so how can they afford wages for additional loan players.



Ultimately, it is there creditors and fans I feel sorry, I know one of Burys creditors and it is not exactly pocket change he stands to lose.

Unfortunately, I dont think The FA, EFL or Premier League will do anything about to address this until one of there Darling Clubs go into a crisis.
There is not a lot they can legally do unfortunately

Is it not about time Wage Caps were brought in at the lower levels, I'm Burys case, paying 8 grand a week to player in League 2 is shocking, and I guess it wont stop until the The FA, EFL, EPL and/or FIFA/UEFA do something about making Clubs control there finances.
Again a wage cap is an illegal restraint of trade. If a business wants to pay someone £8K per week, they have right to do that. The FPP was the nearest you can get to a wage cap in English Law

I enjoyed my one and only visit to Gigg Lane in 2007, the same season I started to watch Darlo, we were supposed to play them on New Years Day, but it was either rained or snowed off and we ended up going down there about a Fortnight later, iirc correctly, I think it was Tommy Wrights first debut and he scored
The whole thing is an awful situation, but there is in reality currently very little that can be done to stop someone like Dale who wants to asset strip
Ok, some good points there Spen, I obviously did not think everything through thoroughly.

Something obviously needs to be done to stop this s*** happening over and over.

There has to be ways to can help these businesses, and there has to be some way to curb a member club from spending money they dont have, some of the figures out there that are known is absolutely ridiculous.

Help me out here, I dont understand Business Law fully, but why cant the EFL or FA step in to help run a Club, yet an Administrator can can the EFL or PFA or FA not step in do the job an Administrator would do.

As for loaning players in, some clubs in the North West could loan some players out and be able to afford to pay them.

If anything, the Authorities need to look at there Fit and Proper Person Tests, as it seems said test is about as less useful than Bog Roll

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Mister e » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:33 pm

Dale has just been on sky news saying he wants the football league to reinstate the club what a pig headed egoist this man is also told all the volunteers he wanted them out of the ground and not to damage the stadium yesterday afternoon after the deal fell through to save the club and they had spent all day cleaning the ground Steve dale doesn't just give the impression that he's a failed businessman he also has the appearance of a tramp - harsh but true.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by norwich darlo » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:54 pm

gig lane is just under 15 miles from Curson Ashton might be a home for them if they have to start again.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by shildonlad » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:56 pm

Mister e wrote:Dale has just been on sky news saying he wants the football league to reinstate the club what a pig headed egoist this man is also told all the volunteers he wanted them out of the ground and not to damage the stadium yesterday afternoon after the deal fell through to save the club and they had spent all day cleaning the ground Steve dale doesn't just give the impression that he's a failed businessman he also has the appearance of a tramp - harsh but true.
I hope the basted dies of a slow and painful death. Didn’t he say he had a terminal illness or was that a sick joke as he does not look ill to me
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:57 pm

norwich darlo wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:54 pm
gig lane is just under 15 miles from Curson Ashton might be a home for them if they have to start again.
FC Utd could repay the favour that Bury done for them.

However I believe Bury did charge a large fee per game to FC Utd.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by shildonlad » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:58 pm

spen666 wrote:
shildonlad wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:29 pm
So the efl dont have the power to stop bad owners? If bad owners fail there fit and proper test then theres far less chance they will take over a club, still ways round this such as the gateshead situation where a figure head came im but that sure werent the situation at bury
The only power the EFL have is the threat of expulsion from its competitions. This works for some prospective owners as they don't want to lose money on the asset they are buying ie generally a football company without a league place is worth less than with a league place

However in the case of an asset stripper like Dale, he has shown he has no interest in the football club surviving. I suspect his interest is actually served by there being no football club. That way he is more likely to get planning permission for an unused decaying football ground.

Then that is without the situation as happened at Gateshead.

None of this paints a particularly pleasant picture, but I am not sure how the FA/ EFL can fight market forces with the current laws of the land.

Anyone know a hitman or two?
Sad but true however the government have stepped in to run the steel industry, rail companies and even a shipyard in scotland, obviously temporary but at least it helps selling such businesses
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:59 pm

murtonquaker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:21 pm
…..Ok, some good points there Spen, I obviously did not think everything through thoroughly.

Something obviously needs to be done to stop this s*** happening over and over.

There has to be ways to can help these businesses, and there has to be some way to curb a member club from spending money they dont have, some of the figures out there that are known is absolutely ridiculous.

Help me out here, I dont understand Business Law fully, but why cant the EFL or FA step in to help run a Club, yet an Administrator can can the EFL or PFA or FA not step in do the job an Administrator would do.
An administrator is given specific legal powers and is appointed by a court order.

The FA / EFL couldn't have such a role as they are not qualified, but also there is a conflict of interests if they are the governing body and also running one of the member clubs. As a silly example, would you agree to appoint the board of Spennymoor Town FC to run the NLN? Would you have trust in them to act impartially? What about if there was an incident involving the 2 clubs and disciplinary proceedings were commenced?

As for loaning players in, some clubs in the North West could loan some players out and be able to afford to pay them.
Why should clubs be forced to bail out their reckless neighbours? That is without issues like insurance , liability etc.

If anything, the Authorities need to look at there Fit and Proper Person Tests, as it seems said test is about as less useful than Bog Roll

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The F&P test is a sop to the fans to keep them quiet. It may serve a purpose for some people, but it is totally ineffective against someone like Dale. Also, its as someone said earlier ( maybe on here), its like a DBS check and that's about it

This is not an easy issue to resolve and I am sure I sound as though I am a spokesman for the EFL/ FA. I am not. This does need a wide ranging review and it may be one that requires primary legislation by Parliament to resolve. However at present, despite fan's emotional attachment to a club, it belongs to the owner who can do as he likes. ( Darlington and other fan owned clubs are slightly different position I accept). If an owner chooses to close down his asset (club) then there is little anyone could do. As a silly example, if Genial Uncle Raj decided tomorrow that he wanted to close down Hartlepool United, then there is nothing realistically people can do to prevent that. He might be fined by the NL for failing to fulfill fixtures, but that doesn't prevent him closing the club down.

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by jjljks » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:04 pm

Salford City is even closer than Curzon 🤔

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by spen666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:05 pm

Mister e wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:33 pm
Dale has just been on sky news saying he wants the football league to reinstate the club what a pig headed egoist this man is also told all the volunteers he wanted them out of the ground and not to damage the stadium yesterday afternoon after the deal fell through to save the club and they had spent all day cleaning the ground Steve dale doesn't just give the impression that he's a failed businessman he also has the appearance of a tramp - harsh but true.
Dale is not a failed businessman. He is a very successful businessman in a particularly unpleasant business model.

his business is buying up distressed companies and asset stripping them before closing them down. Imagine if you will him as a sort of "a house clearance company" for distressed businesses.

The asset at Bury would appear to be the ground and to get that so he can use it, he needs the football club to cease to exist and the ground to decay so he can then persuade the council its only fit for demolition and redevelopment. It may take years to get that far, but he will wait.

PS I would not believe a word that man said without independent verifiable evidence

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Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:20 pm

Spen................... shouldn't you be working?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

murtonquaker
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:08 am
Team Supported: Mighty Darlo

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by murtonquaker » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:30 pm

spen666 wrote:
Mister e wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:33 pm
Dale has just been on sky news saying he wants the football league to reinstate the club what a pig headed egoist this man is also told all the volunteers he wanted them out of the ground and not to damage the stadium yesterday afternoon after the deal fell through to save the club and they had spent all day cleaning the ground Steve dale doesn't just give the impression that he's a failed businessman he also has the appearance of a tramp - harsh but true.
Dale is not a failed businessman. He is a very successful businessman in a particularly unpleasant business model.

his business is buying up distressed companies and asset stripping them before closing them down. Imagine if you will him as a sort of "a house clearance company" for distressed businesses.

The asset at Bury would appear to be the ground and to get that so he can use it, he needs the football club to cease to exist and the ground to decay so he can then persuade the council its only fit for demolition and redevelopment. It may take years to get that far, but he will wait.

PS I would not believe a word that man said without independent verifiable evidence
43 out of 51 businesses he has been involved in has been liquidated...Surely that's not good business.

So his only interest in these companies is to go in there and kill them outright

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Alfie
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 8:33 am
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Eye, Suffolk

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by Alfie » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:46 pm

murtonquaker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:30 pm
spen666 wrote:
Mister e wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:33 pm
Dale has just been on sky news saying he wants the football league to reinstate the club what a pig headed egoist this man is also told all the volunteers he wanted them out of the ground and not to damage the stadium yesterday afternoon after the deal fell through to save the club and they had spent all day cleaning the ground Steve dale doesn't just give the impression that he's a failed businessman he also has the appearance of a tramp - harsh but true.
Dale is not a failed businessman. He is a very successful businessman in a particularly unpleasant business model.

his business is buying up distressed companies and asset stripping them before closing them down. Imagine if you will him as a sort of "a house clearance company" for distressed businesses.

The asset at Bury would appear to be the ground and to get that so he can use it, he needs the football club to cease to exist and the ground to decay so he can then persuade the council its only fit for demolition and redevelopment. It may take years to get that far, but he will wait.

PS I would not believe a word that man said without independent verifiable evidence
43 out of 51 businesses he has been involved in has been liquidated...Surely that's not good business

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
43 out of 51 liquidated.

Unfortunately it is potentially very good business. - for him. Buys companies in trouble, sells off any assets, then throws whats left away.Some businesses buy and sell fruit and veg, some cars. - he buys and sells businesses. In the case of Bury its only real asset was the stadium - or more accurately the land it is built on, but there is a bloody football club playing in it. - get rid of the club and the ground becomes an asset with a saleable value.

When we were in admin the last time wasn't one of the white knights that rode over the horizon in a similar line of work. Didn't see much profit in Darlo, but I think went on to buy Port Vale.

lo36789
Posts: 8109
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Liverpool

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by lo36789 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:50 pm

Alfie wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:46 pm
43 out of 51 liquidated.
A liquidation doesn't always mean debt.

Any company wound down would be liquidated, but the assets of the firm are then just liquified (basically cashed in) and then distributed to the shareholders.

Again unfortunately agreeing with Spen here...this is exactly Dale's business model. He buys distressed businesses on the cheap cashes in the assets for a profit and then keep the proceeds.

The losers are the creditors who agree to penny in the £ as part of Dale's takeover.

biccynana
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:38 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Small clubs in the north west

Post by biccynana » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:57 pm


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