Altrincham

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H1987
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Re: Altrincham

Post by H1987 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:06 am

Another vote for Paddy Deane. Just not a footballer.

I think some of the other names mentioned always had talent but had issues of some kind. Deane was just out of his depth. Like sticking a fan on.

LoidLucan
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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:19 am

The sending off incident is on this interview on Alty TV. Amazingly one or two home fans and their twitter feed reckoned it was never a red card and it was a 50/50 collision. The replay shows it was a reckless, two-footed challenge that could have done real damage....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5hhSjep6tQ

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Spyman
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Re: Altrincham

Post by Spyman » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:38 am

John Johnstone
Winger/goalkeeper

Very good!

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Re: Altrincham

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:41 am

H1987 wrote:Another vote for Paddy Deane. Just not a footballer.

I think some of the other names mentioned always had talent but had issues of some kind. Deane was just out of his depth. Like sticking a fan on.

I vote Xavier Barrau. Sent off on debut, never seen again.
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Re: Altrincham

Post by Wiseacre » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:52 am

The thread seems to be taking in poor debuts. Does anyone else remember Roger Wicks in the early eighties? He was dubbed 'globetrotting' but his debut saw him subbed and the sparse crowd was able to hear Billy Elliot giving him a heartfelt suggestion where he could go next.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:44 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:19 am
The sending off incident is on this interview on Alty TV. Amazingly one or two home fans and their twitter feed reckoned it was never a red card and it was a 50/50 collision. The replay shows it was a reckless, two-footed challenge that could have done real damage....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5hhSjep6tQ
Just read a comment on twitter which said "Red card not necessary. Hannigan came off worse!"

Since when has the physical condition of the player commiting the foul mitigated the punishment for the offence?

Can anyone remember that time in the 90s when Nigel Pepper got sent off on a stretcher for Scunthorpe after breaking his leg? Tried to chop a player in half and snapped his own leg doing it.
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Re: Altrincham

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:45 pm

if it's the tackle on 1:52, personally I am not convinced that the decision will be supported when the video goes for assessment like.

Box 1. a) Was the challenge made with excessive force or was it b) Reckless? Personally it looked reckless, the force of the challenge didn't look to have that much pace in it to make it excessive force and it certainly wasn't over the top given the position of the ball.

If you think it was excessive force...then the next boxes come into it

Box 2. a) Did the tackle endanger the safety of opponent OR b) was it made without due consideration for the safety of an opponent? If a then it is a red card, if it is b then it is a yellow card. Personally for me the left leg is bent (so is not like a vault and has flex in it) and it is also low - the foot of the player is no higher than the ball.
Box 3. a) Was the player out of control when he made the challenge? again this has to be yes to warrant a red card. Personally, whilst the player leaves the ground initially (for what it is worth it is impossible to slide tackle without at some point both feet leaving the ground) he is low to the ground and when the challenge is actually made his right foot is on the floor beneath his body.

Every challenge these days seems to be called out as two footed, merely because the player happens to possess two feet when making the challenge. A two footed challenge is where both feet are straight out in front and you have jumped into a player like that...that is absolutely not the case with that tackle. At no point in the challenge were both of the players feet outstretched together.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:32 pm

In my view it was reckless, endangered a player (who also needed extensive treatment) and the Alty player's challenge was out of control. The ref had several minutes to go through the box ticking excercise you refer to due to the injuries to both victim and perpetrator. Not only that, the ref consulted extensively with the lino who was very close to the incident. Open and shut case. I'd be very surprised if it was overturned.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:37 pm

Overturned v assessing panel are two different things.

Overturned depends on whether team appeals it but also focuses on whether it is absolutely the wrong decision conversely the review of footage is what they think is the right decision.

It basically depends what an ex player and ex manager think whereas the overturned thing is different - they often come to different outcomes.

If you say reckless then it cannot be red. In football you cannot be sent off for a reckless challenge.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:08 pm

Maybe you need to send the authorities your detailed analysis of the total injustice meted out on the innocent Alty player by your fellow official. Hannigan will need all the help he can get if there's an appeal on that one.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:27 pm

It's an opinion to be honest and a judgement. I see it as a reckless challenge, the referee on the day judged it as excessive force.

It's all judgement which is why there are still decisions generating debate on MOTD as actually 'clear and obvious' isn't actually quite a rare thing to happen on a football field.

You however say it is reckless but think a red card is just - which is actually contrary to what the laws of the game say.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by TFDM » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:39 pm

Extended highlights below...

https://youtu.be/jsv6RMd2rZA

As for the red card.... the referee got it right. Ridiculous challenge, both feet off the deck.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:45 pm

Interesting that even the Alty manager hasn't contested the red card. Most saw it as a reckless challenge involving excessive force that endangered a player. Looks like you're on your own here lo.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:54 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:45 pm
Looks like you're on your own here lo.
Or I’m not as I am sure this started with the fact others have said they didn’t agree with a red...but yes if we ignore those people alone.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:59 pm

You're now starting to appear contrary and pedantic in the face of common sense and all the evidence at the time and on video... as well as what a ref and lino saw smack bang in front of them and discussed at length. Even the Alty management aren't questioning it.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:03 pm

cool I agree with you then. Will remember for future that a decision is always correct if referee and assistant on the day both agree on a decision.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:09 pm

I didn't say that they are always correct but when you tie it in with everything else that I've pointed out there is just a tiny little indication that the only one completely out of kilter with the clear evidence is you.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:14 pm

The video is only evidence if you agree with your interpretation. And a lack of comment is not evidence.

Look people view thing differently for perspective the response I’ve had from group I’ve asked is 5-3 in favour of a red card.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:17 pm

As I said, contrary and pedantic, but I'll leave it there.

OnTheTerraces
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Re: Altrincham

Post by OnTheTerraces » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:24 pm

Two footed off the ground ... not a malicious tackle but a very poor tackle
Last edited by OnTheTerraces on Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by OnTheTerraces » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:27 pm

OnTheTerraces wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:24 pm
Definitely a poor tackle and I think the defender seems to lose his footing.

Rivers isn’t clean through.

It’s not a clear red but certainly deserving of one.
Watched it again ... straight red. No questions.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:36 pm

Thanks Kev for the highlights, looked like we had a great following through there.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:41 pm

If it wasn’t a red card for the foul, could it be because he was the last man?

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Re: Altrincham

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:49 pm

No, because there is no such rule as "last man"
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Re: Altrincham

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:57 pm

Sorry I’ll rephrase, was it not a red card because the Alty player denied a goal scoring opportunity.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Possibly.

The commentary team mooted both possibilities whilst the players were getting treatment. (Although annoyingly they said "last man" rather than "denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity")
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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Altrincham

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Is it contrary to have a different view? I thought giving a referees view and stating the laws was helpful rather than pedantic. At least we didn't get into strawman argument territory.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by onewayup » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:14 pm

Stop being pedantic, it was a straight red card no doubt at all ,he was aggressive and knew it that's why he got injured, could have been much worse. Thankfully it wasn't especially for our player

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Altrincham

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:19 pm

I agree, by the way, straight red and I thought that immediately.

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Re: Altrincham

Post by OnTheTerraces » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:19 pm

He got a knee in the temple not a leg injury.

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