Burn Gone

Open now for discussion of all things Darlo!

Moderators: botrash, mikkyx, charlie, uncovered

QUAKERMAN2
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:43 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:21 am

darlo2001uk wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm

Instead, I suspect you’re just being difficult for the sake of it, which you have a habit of doing.
Ha! Without wanting to get involved in this discussion on either side, this made me laugh.

I hope you had a quiet chuckle to yourself when you wrote that Gramps! Image
Here we go....darlo2001 you are a brave man.

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk


eddie-rowles
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:51 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by eddie-rowles » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:11 am

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:38 pm
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:31 am
eddie-rowles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:08 am
Stole money from fans pockets, he knew where boost the budget comes from and decided to screw us, I am really angry with this a###hole.
My feelings exactly
He didn't steal anything. He took what he was contractually obliged to. He must have met the criteria that we couldn't get rid for not fulfilling his contract. Fans are the owners. Would you be so up in arms if it was Brad Groves it had happened to? (Think it might have with a former golden boy) Just because he's from Darlington, why should he feel more for the club than 90,000 other people who live here?
We are not talking about a player who has proved himself and then fell out of favour. He could have gone on loan to Whickham but choose to hold out for purely financial reasons not football or moral just greed. I have morals and loyalty that set me apart from Mr Burn and I stand by my initial statement

spen666
Posts: 1631
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by spen666 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:29 am

eddie-rowles wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:11 am
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:38 pm
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:31 am
eddie-rowles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:08 am
Stole money from fans pockets, he knew where boost the budget comes from and decided to screw us, I am really angry with this a###hole.
My feelings exactly
He didn't steal anything. He took what he was contractually obliged to. He must have met the criteria that we couldn't get rid for not fulfilling his contract. Fans are the owners. Would you be so up in arms if it was Brad Groves it had happened to? (Think it might have with a former golden boy) Just because he's from Darlington, why should he feel more for the club than 90,000 other people who live here?
We are not talking about a player who has proved himself and then fell out of favour. He could have gone on loan to Whickham but choose to hold out for purely financial reasons not football or moral just greed. I have morals and loyalty that set me apart from Mr Burn and I stand by my initial statement

The better questions would be around the terms of the contract he signed and why the club were unable to terminate his contract.

This is a far wider issue than one Darlington can resolve. It relates to the powers of the PFA and the contracts that players get as a result of their power.

Without knowing any of the inns and outs of why Burns wasn't playing, we are all speculating, but it seems to me likely that either:
1. Burns refused to play/ to reach required fitness etc/ failed ot pull his weight
2. Burns was unfit to play through medical reasons.

If it was you or I, then 1. would probably result in disciplinary proceedings and you are likely to be dismissed or at least managed out of your job. 2 would result in your employment being terminated on medical grounds.

Higher levels of football clubs won't sack players because they won't want to lose any potential transfer fee. This is clearly not the case here as no fee involved.

The PFA have managed to bring about a situation where their members are far better protected than the rest of us. Burn is not the first footballer, nor will he be the last to act in such a way which is lawful according to his contract

HarryCharltonsCat
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:06 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:25 pm

eddie-rowles wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:11 am
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:38 pm
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:31 am
eddie-rowles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:08 am
Stole money from fans pockets, he knew where boost the budget comes from and decided to screw us, I am really angry with this a###hole.
My feelings exactly
He didn't steal anything. He took what he was contractually obliged to. He must have met the criteria that we couldn't get rid for not fulfilling his contract. Fans are the owners. Would you be so up in arms if it was Brad Groves it had happened to? (Think it might have with a former golden boy) Just because he's from Darlington, why should he feel more for the club than 90,000 other people who live here?
We are not talking about a player who has proved himself and then fell out of favour. He could have gone on loan to Whickham but choose to hold out for purely financial reasons not football or moral just greed. I have morals and loyalty that set me apart from Mr Burn and I stand by my initial statement
There's no morals involved. Its an employee/employer relationship. If you had a contract at work, and your employer said "Actually, I don't want you anymore. I've found someone who can do your job better. I haven't grounds to dismiss you, don't want to pay you redundancy, but I've found you a job for £200 week less", you would happily tootle off would you?

HarryCharltonsCat
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:06 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:30 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm
Alun Armstrong in pre-season: “All the lads have been great, apart from one or two from last season.” See the Northern Echo.

Jonny Burn hasn’t featured this season despite being under contract, even in the midst of numerous injuries and absences in our squad.

Jonny Burn performed badly last season and subsequently didn’t feature under TW.

Well-connected people on this board have said he doesn’t want to play for us, and has been offered ways out but would rather have taken his wages here (as he’s entitled contractually). So there’s been no assumptions. In fact it’s fairly clear.

Instead, I suspect you’re just being difficult for the sake of it, which you have a habit of doing.

I’d suggest a comparatively well-paid footballer who was initially brought in as a first choice starter not playing regular footballer because two managers don’t think he’s up to it is an issue, particularly given our player shortage.

It isn’t difficult to put two and two together.
Super Les, who I've always assumed was well connected to the club stated earlier "The reason he didn't play is the two managers he has had at Darlo didn't fancy him.

He had a two year contract so had every right to stick around and be paid each week. He turned up for training when required by all accounts and done as requested, he just didn't convince either manager to play him."

As the club have not stated that he has been difficult, refused to play/train, then I'm not sure why I should take the view he has. Not sure why that makes me "being difficult for the sake of it".

User avatar
D_F_C
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:43 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by D_F_C » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:31 pm

one point is that Burn's proposed loan and permanent moves, were so he WASN'T financially worse off. We were going to pay a portion of his wages on loan, and Whickham offered him the same money. This leads me to think that he wanted to be paid off, then go to Whickham

HarryCharltonsCat
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:06 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:47 pm

If Whickham are paying him the same as he was on here, then the world has definitely gone mad. Having said that, who wouldn't take a lump sum payment if they could then get a job on the same money immediately afterwards? It's his last payday, he'll never move up again, and will likely not last long at Whickham if his hearts not in football anymore. He'll have factored this in.

User avatar
D_F_C
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:43 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by D_F_C » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:50 pm

I'm not saying he isn't within his rights to do this. But it seems obvious that money is the motivation.

User avatar
don'tbuythesun
Posts: 1654
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:24 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by don'tbuythesun » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:11 pm

He seems to have only played about 12 games a season for the past five years. I was really hopeful that he would be a good acquisition but clearly something went wrong.

bga
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:18 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by bga » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:30 pm

don'tbuythesun wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:11 pm
He seems to have only played about 12 games a season for the past five years. I was really hopeful that he would be a good acquisition but clearly something went wrong.
[/quote
Not many 1st Class appearances for 5 years is it? His Wiki photo is like a character from an Austin Powers movie don't you think?
https://www.bing.com/search?q=johnny+bu ... 7825ade082

Darlogramps
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Burn Gone

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:28 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm
Alun Armstrong in pre-season: “All the lads have been great, apart from one or two from last season.” See the Northern Echo.

Jonny Burn hasn’t featured this season despite being under contract, even in the midst of numerous injuries and absences in our squad.

Jonny Burn performed badly last season and subsequently didn’t feature under TW.

Well-connected people on this board have said he doesn’t want to play for us, and has been offered ways out but would rather have taken his wages here (as he’s entitled contractually). So there’s been no assumptions. In fact it’s fairly clear.

Instead, I suspect you’re just being difficult for the sake of it, which you have a habit of doing.

I’d suggest a comparatively well-paid footballer who was initially brought in as a first choice starter not playing regular footballer because two managers don’t think he’s up to it is an issue, particularly given our player shortage.

It isn’t difficult to put two and two together.
Super Les, who I've always assumed was well connected to the club stated earlier "The reason he didn't play is the two managers he has had at Darlo didn't fancy him.

As the club have not stated that he has been difficult, refused to play/train, then I'm not sure why I should take the view he has. Not sure why that makes me "being difficult for the sake of it"
So things only happen if the club release a statement saying so? At best that’s a naive point of view. But you know fine well many things occur behind the scenes without a club statement. It doesn’t mean they haven’t occurred.

Moreover, Alun Armstrong himself said “one or two players from last season” hadn’t demonstrated a good attitude in training. Again, it doesn’t take a genius to work it out. A week ago we had a third of our squad absent, yet Burn was nowhere near being picked.

That’s not a case of “not fancying him”, there’s a more fundamental issue. There’s no other explanation for someone who was a former league player, signed as a first teamed, a professional player two years ago, and who commanded a good wage, being nowhere near the squad despite an injury crisis.

Do you really think I’d Burn was fit and up for playing, that Armstrong would ignore him in an injury crisis even if he wasn’t keen? There’s no sense in that logic.
That’s why I’m saying you’re being deliberately difficult and obtuse.

If you’re going to insist there’s nothing to believe Burn has demonstrated issues with playing, then you need to properly answer the question why Armstrong wouldn’t play him despite missing a third of his squad.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

ralphb
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by ralphb » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:49 pm

He will be playing against us for Whickham, who he has now signed for, next week in the Durham Senior Cup
.

HarryCharltonsCat
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:06 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:52 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:28 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm
Alun Armstrong in pre-season: “All the lads have been great, apart from one or two from last season.” See the Northern Echo.

Jonny Burn hasn’t featured this season despite being under contract, even in the midst of numerous injuries and absences in our squad.

Jonny Burn performed badly last season and subsequently didn’t feature under TW.

Well-connected people on this board have said he doesn’t want to play for us, and has been offered ways out but would rather have taken his wages here (as he’s entitled contractually). So there’s been no assumptions. In fact it’s fairly clear.

Instead, I suspect you’re just being difficult for the sake of it, which you have a habit of doing.

I’d suggest a comparatively well-paid footballer who was initially brought in as a first choice starter not playing regular footballer because two managers don’t think he’s up to it is an issue, particularly given our player shortage.

It isn’t difficult to put two and two together.
Super Les, who I've always assumed was well connected to the club stated earlier "The reason he didn't play is the two managers he has had at Darlo didn't fancy him.

As the club have not stated that he has been difficult, refused to play/train, then I'm not sure why I should take the view he has. Not sure why that makes me "being difficult for the sake of it"
So things only happen if the club release a statement saying so? At best that’s a naive point of view. But you know fine well many things occur behind the scenes without a club statement. It doesn’t mean they haven’t occurred.

Moreover, Alun Armstrong himself said “one or two players from last season” hadn’t demonstrated a good attitude in training. Again, it doesn’t take a genius to work it out. A week ago we had a third of our squad absent, yet Burn was nowhere near being picked.

That’s not a case of “not fancying him”, there’s a more fundamental issue. There’s no other explanation for someone who was a former league player, signed as a first teamed, a professional player two years ago, and who commanded a good wage, being nowhere near the squad despite an injury crisis.

Do you really think I’d Burn was fit and up for playing, that Armstrong would ignore him in an injury crisis even if he wasn’t keen? There’s no sense in that logic.
That’s why I’m saying you’re being deliberately difficult and obtuse.

If you’re going to insist there’s nothing to believe Burn has demonstrated issues with playing, then you need to properly answer the question why Armstrong wouldn’t play him despite missing a third of his squad.
You took out the bit from Super Les' quote about Burn by all accounts having turned up for training as required and having done all requested of him, for some reason. Maybe Armstrong really just didn't rate him. Maybe Burn really has just deteriorated that much, that bringing in Alex Storey was a better option. I don't know. I won't therefore castigate him for "stealing the fans money". I will say that we are both better off for him having left.

Darlogramps
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Burn Gone

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:03 am

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:28 pm
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm
Alun Armstrong in pre-season: “All the lads have been great, apart from one or two from last season.” See the Northern Echo.

Jonny Burn hasn’t featured this season despite being under contract, even in the midst of numerous injuries and absences in our squad.

Jonny Burn performed badly last season and subsequently didn’t feature under TW.

Well-connected people on this board have said he doesn’t want to play for us, and has been offered ways out but would rather have taken his wages here (as he’s entitled contractually). So there’s been no assumptions. In fact it’s fairly clear.

Instead, I suspect you’re just being difficult for the sake of it, which you have a habit of doing.

I’d suggest a comparatively well-paid footballer who was initially brought in as a first choice starter not playing regular footballer because two managers don’t think he’s up to it is an issue, particularly given our player shortage.

It isn’t difficult to put two and two together.
Super Les, who I've always assumed was well connected to the club stated earlier "The reason he didn't play is the two managers he has had at Darlo didn't fancy him.

As the club have not stated that he has been difficult, refused to play/train, then I'm not sure why I should take the view he has. Not sure why that makes me "being difficult for the sake of it"
So things only happen if the club release a statement saying so? At best that’s a naive point of view. But you know fine well many things occur behind the scenes without a club statement. It doesn’t mean they haven’t occurred.

Moreover, Alun Armstrong himself said “one or two players from last season” hadn’t demonstrated a good attitude in training. Again, it doesn’t take a genius to work it out. A week ago we had a third of our squad absent, yet Burn was nowhere near being picked.

That’s not a case of “not fancying him”, there’s a more fundamental issue. There’s no other explanation for someone who was a former league player, signed as a first teamed, a professional player two years ago, and who commanded a good wage, being nowhere near the squad despite an injury crisis.

Do you really think I’d Burn was fit and up for playing, that Armstrong would ignore him in an injury crisis even if he wasn’t keen? There’s no sense in that logic.
That’s why I’m saying you’re being deliberately difficult and obtuse.

If you’re going to insist there’s nothing to believe Burn has demonstrated issues with playing, then you need to properly answer the question why Armstrong wouldn’t play him despite missing a third of his squad.
You took out the bit from Super Les' quote about Burn by all accounts having turned up for training as required and having done all requested of him, for some reason.
Because it doesn’t tally, for reasons I’ve previously explained. If he did all that is asked of him, and turned up with a good attitude in training why did Armstrong not play him, or even have him near the squad despite our lack of numbers? For some reason, you’re dodging that particular question, and deflecting in any way you can.

Are we really to believe someone who was a professional little over a year ago has deteriorated to a point he’s not even capable of playing part-time National League North, and that’s in no way his fault?

What are you suggesting? That he’s naturally deteriorated to that extent in the space of 12 months? Seems highly unlikely and you’re yet to provide anything to support it. Your only response has been to deflect and provide supposition instead. At the risk of repeating myself, this is where “Difficult for the sake of it” comes in.

And let’s grant you all of it. Let’s say Burn is entirely blameless and it’s both AA and TW, and their respective coaching staff, and the people at director level who’ve all got Burn wrong. That still wouldn’t explain why Burn, technically a senior player on account of being a former professional recently, was not being played despite our player shortage. In that scenario, it wouldn’t be difficult to convince a manager to play you, if you genuinely wanted to.

It would be entirely illogical for AA to complain of squad shortages, yet have an eager, capable player and on good wages not even near the squad. The only explanation would be that Burn was neither eager nor capable, despite receiving hundreds of pounds a week and being an ex-EFL player just a couple of years ago.

On the other hand, I’ve got Armstrong’s thinly-veiled comments in the press, Burn’s failure to play this season, his falling out of favour last season and suggestions from well-connected people Burn was motivated solely in receiving a pay-off.

Again, it all points in one direction. And it isn’t towards your argument of suppositions I’m afraid.

Also, your whole argument is that people are making assumptions about Burn without evidence (although I’ve since provided some which you ignore). Yet here you are, assuming Super Les’ account is correct and using it to back yourself up.

For clarity, I’m not saying Super Les is incorrect at all, and agree he is seemingly well-connected. My point is you’re being a hypocrite in criticising one set of assumptions (which are actually not because they have supporting evidence) yet leaping on another set because it’s convenient to you. It undermines your own argument I’m afraid.

The standard of your debating here has been uncharacteristically poor HarryCharltonsCat.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

HarryCharltonsCat
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:06 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:23 pm

I'm not taking Super Les' comments as Gospel. I used them to highlight that other seemingly connected people did not believe Burn had been difficult. Who's right? I don't know. You don't know. He may have been, he may not. I only said I wasn't going to castigate him for stealing a wage on that evidence. Maybe the fact he was intractable regarding a move, when it was obvious he wasn't in Armstrong's plans, were behind Armstrong's pre-season comments and meant his relationship with Armstrong broke down, and he would never be picked. Wouldn't be the first player in history for that to happen. Again, I don't know. On the evidence of his appearances last season, and pre-season this, he is far, far below professional standard. It could be he was good as a kid, hasn't progressed, and now is returning to his correct level incrementally. That getting a kid from NL really was a better option. I'm glad he's gone, but choose not to vilify him over it. If others do, that's there prerogative.

JasonDeVos
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:51 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by JasonDeVos » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:06 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:23 pm
I'm not taking Super Les' comments as Gospel. I used them to highlight that other seemingly connected people did not believe Burn had been difficult. Who's right? I don't know. You don't know. He may have been, he may not. I only said I wasn't going to castigate him for stealing a wage on that evidence. Maybe the fact he was intractable regarding a move, when it was obvious he wasn't in Armstrong's plans, were behind Armstrong's pre-season comments and meant his relationship with Armstrong broke down, and he would never be picked. Wouldn't be the first player in history for that to happen. Again, I don't know. On the evidence of his appearances last season, and pre-season this, he is far, far below professional standard. It could be he was good as a kid, hasn't progressed, and now is returning to his correct level incrementally. That getting a kid from NL really was a better option. I'm glad he's gone, but choose not to vilify him over it. If others do, that's there prerogative.
Interesting views on Burn at the end of the podcast..............

super_les_mcjannet
Posts: 5505
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:41 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Burn Gone

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:37 am

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:23 pm
I'm not taking Super Les' comments as Gospel. I used them to highlight that other seemingly connected people did not believe Burn had been difficult. Who's right? I don't know. You don't know. He may have been, he may not. I only said I wasn't going to castigate him for stealing a wage on that evidence. Maybe the fact he was intractable regarding a move, when it was obvious he wasn't in Armstrong's plans, were behind Armstrong's pre-season comments and meant his relationship with Armstrong broke down, and he would never be picked. Wouldn't be the first player in history for that to happen. Again, I don't know. On the evidence of his appearances last season, and pre-season this, he is far, far below professional standard. It could be he was good as a kid, hasn't progressed, and now is returning to his correct level incrementally. That getting a kid from NL really was a better option. I'm glad he's gone, but choose not to vilify him over it. If others do, that's there prerogative.
Certainly wouldn't take what I write as gospel and I have no major link into the club and if I did I probably wouldn't write it on here, I do hear enough to have a decent view on what happened with Burn though.

Whilst Burn turned up for training etc. he didn't impress enough in training to make Armstrong think he could play a part in the first team even when we were down to 3 academy lads on the bench. You can read between the lines enough to know that Armstrong wouldn't just freeze somebody out who he thought would offer us something positive.

Personally if I was Burn I would have gone out on loan and wanted to prove Armstrong wrong, however I wasn't built up as a professional footballer for years to only see it all fall apart these last two years. I guess his whole career plans in a sense have been ripped up and as a young lad maybe that's tough to handle. Hard to say if I would have pushed for a pay off at his age, pretty sure the answer would be no but time moves on and people handle things different.

He is off the pay roll now and this has opened a little bit of budget up for Amstrong in theory although probably already spent on Storey/Connell etc. lesson learned in offering players two year contracts which I think the board have learned and AA seems to make better decisions currently on players and contracts.

Post Reply