AGM

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tezza
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Re: AGM

Post by tezza » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:07 pm

H1987 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:25 pm
Hopefully the 500 club coming to an end will help improve those financial figures to something healthier and more sustainable in the near future.
What financial figures are you referring too?

We have not seen anything as yet, however fans are being asked to invest for next season without knowing the current state, financial, and projections.

Part of being fan owned was that transparency was increased, and non sensitive information was better shared.

bga
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Re: AGM

Post by bga » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:24 pm

tezza wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:07 pm
H1987 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:25 pm
Hopefully the 500 club coming to an end will help improve those financial figures to something healthier and more sustainable in the near future.
What financial figures are you referring too?

We have not seen anything as yet, however fans are being asked to invest for next season without knowing the current state, financial, and projections.

Part of being fan owned was that transparency was increased, and non sensitive information was better shared.
As may be stated above only Shareholders (DFCSG and individual Shareholders who invested a few years ago) are sent the detailed accounts. These show (see Wizardofos post above) an Operating loss of £117,000 for the last Financial year. Apart from these accounts and unless you attended the Club AGM, we are all still in the dark regards whether the current Financial year is any better.

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divas
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Re: AGM

Post by divas » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:43 pm

tezza wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:07 pm
H1987 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:25 pm
Hopefully the 500 club coming to an end will help improve those financial figures to something healthier and more sustainable in the near future.
What financial figures are you referring too?

We have not seen anything as yet, however fans are being asked to invest for next season without knowing the current state, financial, and projections.

Part of being fan owned was that transparency was increased, and non sensitive information was better shared.
Where are fans being asked to invest?

tezza
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Re: AGM

Post by tezza » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:44 pm

Investing in the dark sums it up.

I thought that the AGM Update 2019 was a positive step to improved fan / board communication and transparency.

Without going into detail some recent events lead me to believe that we may have slipped backwards and only when there is a cry for further funding is there a clear communication.

I sincerely hope that i am proved wrong and that a statement of the clubs current aspiration and position is without breaching any NDA,s in place.

tezza
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Re: AGM

Post by tezza » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:44 pm

divas wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:43 pm
tezza wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:07 pm
H1987 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:25 pm
Hopefully the 500 club coming to an end will help improve those financial figures to something healthier and more sustainable in the near future.
What financial figures are you referring too?

We have not seen anything as yet, however fans are being asked to invest for next season without knowing the current state, financial, and projections.

Part of being fan owned was that transparency was increased, and non sensitive information was better shared.
Where are fans being asked to invest?
Is a season ticket not a form of investment.?

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divas
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Re: AGM

Post by divas » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:05 pm

Personally I wouldn’t class it as investment but suppose it’s a matter of opinion. It’s ultimately a cheaper way to attend games by making an upfront commitment. Fans at every club whether fan owned or not buy season tickets.

lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:32 pm

Of course a season ticket isn't an investment - unless you class buying a lettuce at the supermarket as an investment also?

Quakerlad
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Re: AGM

Post by Quakerlad » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:46 pm

This is where some early transparency is needed of the current financial position because it just causes speculation and concern when people start “hearing things”.
Surely, DJ said enough times a year ago that we were in a sound position and we would be reducing budgets, crowd predictions, not budgeting for cup runs etc to ensure that we would remain so. Accept we have had to bring in cover for injured players but surely that is counteracted comfortably by the money we made from cup runs of £100k+.

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Re: AGM

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:12 pm

I do agree that an update in regards to the AGM should be output via DFC and probably also DFCSG although a joint output would be expected.

I am sure the club really want support on Season Ticket Sales, Boost the Budget and many other things. Just because someone doesn't own shares in the club itself doesn't mean we shouldn't want them to feel part of it, especially when we want over 400 people to go again on BTB.

Accounts sent out are great, however they only advise where we were as of June 2019, also accounts don't really tell you a full story or where you think you are now.

quakersfan
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Re: AGM

Post by quakersfan » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:13 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:12 pm
I do agree that an update in regards to the AGM should be output via DFC and probably also DFCSG although a joint output would be expected.

I am sure the club really want support on Season Ticket Sales, Boost the Budget and many other things. Just because someone doesn't own shares in the club itself doesn't mean we shouldn't want them to feel part of it, especially when we want over 400 people to go again on BTB.

Accounts sent out are great, however they only advise where we were as of June 2019, also accounts don't really tell you a full story or where you think you are now.
2018/19 we did very well in transfer fees this FY we haven’t but we have had the £100k cup run plus the investment by DJ so with approximately the same budget I’d expect this years loss to be Very similar to 2018/19.
It would be good to get an indication though before BTB is announced.

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Re: AGM

Post by jjljks » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:59 am

There are different ways to invest in the club, not just money but time, sentiment, effort. From those running the 50/50 draw, Quaker retail, supporters' bus, volunteers shovelling snow & pulling covers on/off, members of DFCSG, Board, the squad as well as season ticket and shareholders. You can't expect people to keep investing blindly, however fanatic we are. Some basic figures would be useful assurance.

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Robbie Painter
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Re: AGM

Post by Robbie Painter » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:32 am

There was a comprehensive trading update given at the AGM and a Q&A after the formal business was completed.

There will also be a trading update published on the website at 12pm today for all supporters.

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D_F_C
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Re: AGM

Post by D_F_C » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:42 pm

really enjoyed the update with lots of info given in the article as well as the interview. Good work from the club, hopefully this will stop people moaning, but I doubt it

al_quaker
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Re: AGM

Post by al_quaker » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:21 pm

Am I reading it correctly that we are still running at a (presumably substantial) loss (if its taking BtB and DJs investment to bridge it), despite bringing in 123k from the cup? Worrying if so. Or is the exceptional income not included in operating P+L?

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divas
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Re: AGM

Post by divas » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:30 pm

Yes, BUT you do have to consider that BTB and DJ investment would have formed part of the playing budget calcs.

But yeah on the bare face of it, without £150K investment from the owners every season we’d probably not be able to compete at this level.

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Re: AGM

Post by al_quaker » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:37 pm

OK thanks - and good points. Sobering I guess, particularly when there's seemingly no obvious ways to dramatically increase our revenue with no facility to make work for us*. End of the 500 club may help (although how its interlinked with BtB is still unknown I presume)

Edit: *other than increasing crowds of course, but again I believe we are hamstrung by our facilities in that regard.

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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 pm

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-it-w ... s-saturday

I think that is very well worded statement and certainly justifies decisions which were made that lead to rumours on here...
  • "The net effect is that hospitality is only marginally profitable this season."
  • "Commercial: Both revenue and P&L are up year-on-year, with net profit at £37k versus £31k in same period last year."
  • "Our existing long-term sponsors are fantastic"
  • "We are pleased that given only 6 of our first 12 home league games were sponsored, all remaining games bar the postponed Leamington game now have both match and ball sponsors."
If a commerical manager role costs more than £6k per annum then the role is loss making.

spen666
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Re: AGM

Post by spen666 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:02 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:21 pm
Am I reading it correctly that we are still running at a (presumably substantial) loss (if its taking BtB and DJs investment to bridge it), despite bringing in 123k from the cup? Worrying if so. Or is the exceptional income not included in operating P+L?
I read it that although £123k earned from cup run, this was offset by the fact last accounting period transfer profits were £107k. So cup run money effectively prevented the need to sell players

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Re: AGM

Post by spen666 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:04 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 pm
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-it-w ... s-saturday

I think that is very well worded statement and certainly justifies decisions which were made that lead to rumours on here...
  • "The net effect is that hospitality is only marginally profitable this season."
  • "Commercial: Both revenue and P&L are up year-on-year, with net profit at £37k versus £31k in same period last year."
  • "Our existing long-term sponsors are fantastic"
  • "We are pleased that given only 6 of our first 12 home league games were sponsored, all remaining games bar the postponed Leamington game now have both match and ball sponsors."

If a commerical manager role costs more than £6k per annum then the role is loss making.

Is that correct? The figure talks about net profit, not income. One would assume net profit takes account of the associated costs ie the commercial manager's wages

lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:32 pm

spen666 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:04 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 pm
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-it-w ... s-saturday

I think that is very well worded statement and certainly justifies decisions which were made that lead to rumours on here...
  • "The net effect is that hospitality is only marginally profitable this season."
  • "Commercial: Both revenue and P&L are up year-on-year, with net profit at £37k versus £31k in same period last year."
  • "Our existing long-term sponsors are fantastic"
  • "We are pleased that given only 6 of our first 12 home league games were sponsored, all remaining games bar the postponed Leamington game now have both match and ball sponsors."

If a commerical manager role costs more than £6k per annum then the role is loss making.

Is that correct? The figure talks about net profit, not income. One would assume net profit takes account of the associated costs ie the commercial manager's wages
Guess it depends how it has been costed but I am not sure how that cost would have been allocated between hospitality and commercial. Generally speaking a figure like that will only take attributable costs into account.

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divas
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Re: AGM

Post by divas » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:49 pm

Commercial manager won’t be included in commercial or hospitality.

bga
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Re: AGM

Post by bga » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:20 pm

D_F_C wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:42 pm
really enjoyed the update with lots of info given in the article as well as the interview. Good work from the club, hopefully this will stop people moaning, but I doubt it
Think you are being a bit harsh about people "moaning." All fans wanted was the facts behind an operating loss of £117,000, and some facts about the trading period 1st July 2019 to date, which we have now been provided with.

spen666
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Re: AGM

Post by spen666 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:23 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:32 pm
spen666 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:04 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:53 pm
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-it-w ... s-saturday

I think that is very well worded statement and certainly justifies decisions which were made that lead to rumours on here...
  • "The net effect is that hospitality is only marginally profitable this season."
  • "Commercial: Both revenue and P&L are up year-on-year, with net profit at £37k versus £31k in same period last year."
  • "Our existing long-term sponsors are fantastic"
  • "We are pleased that given only 6 of our first 12 home league games were sponsored, all remaining games bar the postponed Leamington game now have both match and ball sponsors."

If a commerical manager role costs more than £6k per annum then the role is loss making.

Is that correct? The figure talks about net profit, not income. One would assume net profit takes account of the associated costs ie the commercial manager's wages
Guess it depends how it has been costed but I am not sure how that cost would have been allocated between hospitality and commercial. Generally speaking a figure like that will only take attributable costs into account.

It was the reference to net profits that caused me to raise the query. I have no idea what the breakdown of that figure is. Its a matter for the club how it breaks down its figures as that breakdown is not required in the statutory accounts

H1987
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Re: AGM

Post by H1987 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:42 pm

I wonder if we're going to see a change in the approach to hospitality next year then. It's looked notably emptier a few times this year than usual.

It was better valued before - but also that differential for season ticket holders to upgrade should be looked at, so they deduct the whole price of their matchday ticket off the cost - not a fiver as it currently is.

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Re: AGM

Post by Dilly-dilly » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:55 pm

Seems well dressed . Almost like Xmas Xmas Turkey.
Look at it without Rose tinted glasses .
TV money and transfers etc let alone changing loans into equity . As for operating must be around 250k .

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Re: AGM

Post by feethamslad » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:57 pm

H1987 wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:42 pm
I wonder if we're going to see a change in the approach to hospitality next year then. It's looked notably emptier a few times this year than usual.

It was better valued before - but also that differential for season ticket holders to upgrade should be looked at, so they deduct the whole price of their matchday ticket off the cost - not a fiver as it currently is.
I think that the Club have overpriced the offering in Hospitality for the current season. Although the season ticket prices work out at about £36 per match which is average for the League the 'one-off' price of £45 is far too high and must put people off. Hospitality will be full for the local derby matches but the Club need to ensure more people attend Hospitality for the remainder of the matches during the season and price the offering accordingly.

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Quaker85
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Re: AGM

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:15 pm

Hospitality is grossly overpriced this season when you think about it. The food has a Fawlty Towers gourmet night about it. It was better value last season but still not great. If you add on what a season ticket holder has already paid, you’re getting £5 worth of food for £50 which means the balcony view is worth £40 after the programme and coffee.


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tezza
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Re: AGM

Post by tezza » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:44 pm

Concerning situation and you wonder exactly where we would be without this seasons cup run and associated TV Fees

Indeed the statement makes it clear that the current form of operation cannot continue indefinitely, and i guess until it changes fans and DJ aspiration of full time football, will remain exactly that.

How we change it is the big question, i do not see any private investor on the horizon, and the prejudice of some would always be a hurdle.
What i do see is that the current set up with The Rugby Club is not the vehicle to allow us to develop and drive forward, it is like the Swan has turned into an Albatross around our corporate neck. Will there be anything better developing out of the proposed Sporting Village, i hope so, however anything that brings DFC and DBC into contact generally has not been to our advantage. Perhaps the new political landscape can be to our advantage?

One thing I do not buy the bit about David Johnston recent investment, to my knowledge this was a conversion of 2 historical loans to share capital, rather than new cash injection.It is not a criticism of him I do appreciate most things he as done as i hope do the majority of supporters.

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Re: AGM

Post by wizardofos » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:51 pm

Looks increasingly like our owner(s) have to put in about £150k a year to keep us at this level. Probably not dissimilar to several (much derided) other individual owners of clubs we compete against.
I suppose we have safety in numbers.

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divas
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Re: AGM

Post by divas » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:33 pm

tezza wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:44 pm
Concerning situation and you wonder exactly where we would be without this seasons cup run and associated TV Fees

Indeed the statement makes it clear that the current form of operation cannot continue indefinitely, and i guess until it changes fans and DJ aspiration of full time football, will remain exactly that.

How we change it is the big question, i do not see any private investor on the horizon, and the prejudice of some would always be a hurdle.
What i do see is that the current set up with The Rugby Club is not the vehicle to allow us to develop and drive forward, it is like the Swan has turned into an Albatross around our corporate neck. Will there be anything better developing out of the proposed Sporting Village, i hope so, however anything that brings DFC and DBC into contact generally has not been to our advantage. Perhaps the new political landscape can be to our advantage?

One thing I do not buy the bit about David Johnston recent investment, to my knowledge this was a conversion of 2 historical loans to share capital, rather than new cash injection.It is not a criticism of him I do appreciate most things he as done as i hope do the majority of supporters.
DJ investment was £10k loan conversion from a prior season and £40K cash injection this season

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