AGM

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Mister e
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Re: AGM

Post by Mister e » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:39 pm

One of the problems with being in hospitality is that you don't know what fare your going to be served. You could get a vegan guest being served beef lasagne for example even back in the days of the much maligned Reynolds at feethams the meal for the forthcoming fixture would be advertised in the match day programme for example. I'm not trying to have a go at the club I've enjoyed a couple of visits to hospitality myself in the past. Just think we might try to be a little more transparent though to attract a few more fans into that sector of the club on match day.

Quakerlad
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Re: AGM

Post by Quakerlad » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:59 pm

Got to admit that I don’t fully understand business accounts.
What I don’t get though is that DJ said a year ago that lessons had been learnt and this year they would budget based on no cup run and lower attendances as they had learnt their lesson and the club must run within its means, hence large reduction in playing budget etc.
Yet without the £125k from the cups, we would be in the crap financially again if I have read things right.
Get that he has supported us with replacing injured players, but surely not to the tune of £100k+.
Just don’t get after a huge amount of revenue from the cups which wasn’t budgeted for and a slight increase in attendances why we are not in a better financial position.

Darlofan97
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Re: AGM

Post by Darlofan97 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:07 pm

Probably projected a stronger profit on the commercial side.

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Quaker85
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Re: AGM

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:10 pm

Quakerlad wrote:Got to admit that I don’t fully understand business accounts.
What I don’t get though is that DJ said a year ago that lessons had been learnt and this year they would budget based on no cup run and lower attendances as they had learnt their lesson and the club must run within its means, hence large reduction in playing budget etc.
Yet without the £125k from the cups, we would be in the crap financially again if I have read things right.
Get that he has supported us with replacing injured players, but surely not to the tune of £100k+.
Just don’t get after a huge amount of revenue from the cups which wasn’t budgeted for and a slight increase in attendances why we are not in a better financial position.
It’s not your lack of understanding of accounting that is the problem. The issue is lack of detailed information.


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Mister e
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Re: AGM

Post by Mister e » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:30 pm

Does anybody know how the overnight stays were funded this season surely they are an unnecessary addition to the running costs especially as most of them ended in defeat anyway.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: AGM

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:08 am

Mister e wrote:Does anybody know how the overnight stays were funded this season surely they are an unnecessary addition to the running costs especially as most of them ended in defeat anyway.
Didnt a fan pay for one out of his own pocket? And didn't a few fans pay a few quid to travel down and stay with the team to reduce costs??? So probably didn't cost too much..


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quakersfan
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Re: AGM

Post by quakersfan » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:46 am

Although I was accused by a couple of posters on here when I suggested the playing budget for next year will be greatly reduced I’m still of the belief it will be as the DFCSG board want to get to a break even point which the club haven’t done since 2012. If it hadn’t been for the cup run money then this years accounts would be much worse than 2018/19. Perhaps we just need to be honest with ourselves that we have financially reached the level we can sustain with the current ownership/financial model.

biccynana
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Re: AGM

Post by biccynana » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:59 am

Mister e wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:30 pm
Does anybody know how the overnight stays were funded this season surely they are an unnecessary addition to the running costs especially as most of them ended in defeat anyway.
Wonderful thing, hindsight :roll:

JE93
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Re: AGM

Post by JE93 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:27 am

quakersfan wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:46 am
Although I was accused by a couple of posters on here when I suggested the playing budget for next year will be greatly reduced I’m still of the belief it will be as the DFCSG board want to get to a break even point which the club haven’t done since 2012. If it hadn’t been for the cup run money then this years accounts would be much worse than 2018/19. Perhaps we just need to be honest with ourselves that we have financially reached the level we can sustain with the current ownership/financial model.
When you say break even point what do you mean? If you mean net 0 or better at the bottom of the P&L it wont happen for as long as the DFCSG puts budgeted money into the FC. Boost the budget, Membership fees etc are all put in by issuing new shares, you wont see them in the P&L, but because it is budgeted income there are no questions over spending it. That subsequent wage expense etc goes through the P&L which is what gives us a large loss each season.

I'd expect the playing budget to be reduced again at the start of next season, as a reset because no additional income has come in yet. You cant say if it wasnt for that additional income that let us spend more, our accounts would be much worse. Cause you have no idea if that expense would have been incurred if we didnt gain the income. Only Hedley and Donawa were signed before the cup run. So similarly, if we sold the likes of Storey or Donawa in the summer for decent money, I'd expect it to be flexed again to recognise these items of additional unbudgetted income.

Under current circumstances I agree, this is our level until we can find some agreement with either rugby club that allows us more commercial income and until such a point when our average crowds over the season can be in the 1700's.

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: AGM

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:57 am

It appears to me it’s the rugby club who are laughing all the way to the bank.They have been so difficult to deal with knowing full well they hold all the aces with inflated rents, catering, taking a cut from our advertising boards etc,etc. and generally being pretty obstructive in trying to move forward with us and being pretty unsympathetic to our needs.
If DJ,AA and the rest of the board deem it more viable to move to the Sporting Village then so be it.IMO DRFC would get what they deserve.


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lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:58 am

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:57 am
It appears to me it’s the rugby club who are laughing all the way to the bank.
Based upon? It being easier to blame another party.

Nothing in that statement indicates that a) we are being overcharged for the service by the rugby club or b) that we are lacking capacity to increase revenues at BM.

In fact
- increasing the price of hospitality = greater margin = same profit. That means we weren't at capacity so there was more space there
- sponsorships. we were not at capacity on this 6 /12 of opening fixtures and now full to the end of the season.

I doubt it covers the gap that has been called out but had we managed to get the same number of people into hospitality as last season then we would have made more profit from that. We could have made double from matchday sponsorships YTD.

Clearly there may be opportunity at a sporting village (but not sure where because we would still be renting and whoever we are renting from will want to make money and us being there is an opportunity cost to them) but fundamentally what the statement says is that profit from commercial activity this season has been basically flat with last year but we know we had extra cost this year in order to deliver flat returns.

It also suggest that despite the cup run our income from windfalls / exceptional items this season has effectively also been flat. We really made no more from the cup run than from transfer fees in the previous year.

So if we want to grow then there are really three elements to it;
1. Maximise commercial returns at BM. Until we do this it's foolish to think we'd maximise them anywhere else, if you are not working at capacity in current location why do you need more availability?
2. Increase matchday revenues. This is our bread and butter, to be threatening progression to another division then yes I think 1,700+ is needed in terms of attendances.
3. Increase ownership. The more fans who are owners the more passive income we have. Every 100 people who become supporters group members is an extra £2,400 of tax free investment per season.

And even then I suspect that is break even to 'challenge' in this division. We may then need a windfall on top to push us over the line, but actually maybe that is where we are - until we increase attendances further we are no more than a safe NLN side.

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: AGM

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:11 am

lo36789 wrote:
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:57 am
It appears to me it’s the rugby club who are laughing all the way to the bank.
Based upon? It being easier to blame another party.

Nothing in that statement indicates that a) we are being overcharged for the service by the rugby club or b) that we are lacking capacity to increase revenues at BM.

In fact
- increasing the price of hospitality = greater margin = same profit. That means we weren't at capacity so there was more space there
- sponsorships. we were not at capacity on this 6 /12 of opening fixtures and now full to the end of the season.

I doubt it covers the gap that has been called out but had we managed to get the same number of people into hospitality as last season then we would have made more profit from that. We could have made double from matchday sponsorships YTD.

Clearly there may be opportunity at a sporting village (but not sure where because we would still be renting and whoever we are renting from will want to make money and us being there is an opportunity cost to them) but fundamentally what the statement says is that profit from commercial activity this season has been basically flat with last year but we know we had extra cost this year in order to deliver flat returns.

It also suggest that despite the cup run our income from windfalls / exceptional items this season has effectively also been flat. We really made no more from the cup run than from transfer fees in the previous year.

So if we want to grow then there are really three elements to it;
1. Maximise commercial returns at BM. Until we do this it's foolish to think we'd maximise them anywhere else, if you are not working at capacity in current location why do you need more availability?
2. Increase matchday revenues. This is our bread and butter, to be threatening progression to another division then yes I think 1,700+ is needed in terms of attendances.
3. Increase ownership. The more fans who are owners the more passive income we have. Every 100 people who become supporters group members is an extra £2,400 of tax free investment per season.
Do you think DRFC could be more reasonable working alongside us Yes or No.

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al_quaker
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Re: AGM

Post by al_quaker » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:58 am
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:57 am
It appears to me it’s the rugby club who are laughing all the way to the bank.


So if we want to grow then there are really three elements to it;
1. Maximise commercial returns at BM. Until we do this it's foolish to think we'd maximise them anywhere else, if you are not working at capacity in current location why do you need more availability?
2. Increase matchday revenues. This is our bread and butter, to be threatening progression to another division then yes I think 1,700+ is needed in terms of attendances.
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though, which is ultimately the crux of our issue. I've been to hospitality - the food (supplied by the rugby club I believe) wasn't particularly good, and you can still end up with a restricted view on the balcony. It's hardly a brilliant experience. And I do believe BM restricts our ability to get more people in to watch. Even the 'good' views at BM are pretty crap - 6 (I think) rows deep seats or a shallow terrace behind the goal? Not exactly appealing if you like any sort of height.

Amateur landlords in a poor facility is a real problem - and there's no easy solution, as the alternative is hugely flawed in its own way too.

Rock and a hard place springs to mind :lol:

H1987
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Re: AGM

Post by H1987 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:42 am

We can't fill the existing hospitality at Blackwell anymore because they've increased the prices.

Anyone who thinks moving to the arena will provide more money this way is absolutely barmy. It's not that hospitality doesn't have its place, it's that there is an extremely limited market for people willing to go in hospitality at this level of football. Existing fans will do it if it's good value (which is both why we were packing it last year, but also why we can't fill it this year). There is absolutely no market for building the fanbase in this way. Focus on services for regular fans.

lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:02 am

H1987 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:42 am
We can't fill the existing hospitality at Blackwell anymore because they've increased the prices.
That is misinformation - we increased the prices. We added more to it which costs more to operate but the margin was greater we just didn't get as many takers.
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:11 am
Do you think DRFC could be more reasonable working alongside us Yes or No.
Probably could but to suggest they are laughing to the bank and if we just went away from BM it would be a different story are very different things.
al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though,
No, but the point is we had more takers last season without dedicated resource on it. So we know we at least have that latent demand to tap into and we are not even appealing to them . The fact of the matter product offering or sales this season has been less effective and appealed to less people than last season in the exact same location and surrounding.

That needs addressing first before anything else.

al_quaker
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Re: AGM

Post by al_quaker » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:11 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:02 am
al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though,
No, but the point is we had more takers last season without dedicated resource on it. So we know we at least have that latent demand to tap into and we are not even appealing to them . The fact of the matter product offering or sales this season has been less effective and appealed to less people than last season in the exact same location and surrounding.

That needs addressing first before anything else.
Yes there may well be latent demand for hospitality, or it could be that people tried it, weren't particularly impressed, and then won't come back. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.

lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:25 am

al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:11 am
Yes there may well be latent demand for hospitality, or it could be that people tried it, weren't particularly impressed, and then won't come back. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.
Well yes could be that - specific actions and statements made by the club suggest otherwise though. I'd sort of me more inclined to believe that if it was a 3 month comparison of a like for like product but year on year seems a reasonably long time frame.

H1987
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Re: AGM

Post by H1987 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:50 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:02 am
H1987 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:42 am
We can't fill the existing hospitality at Blackwell anymore because they've increased the prices.
That is misinformation - we increased the prices. We added more to it which costs more to operate but the margin was greater we just didn't get as many takers.
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:11 am
Do you think DRFC could be more reasonable working alongside us Yes or No.
Probably could but to suggest they are laughing to the bank and if we just went away from BM it would be a different story are very different things.
al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though,
No, but the point is we had more takers last season without dedicated resource on it. So we know we at least have that latent demand to tap into and we are not even appealing to them . The fact of the matter product offering or sales this season has been less effective and appealed to less people than last season in the exact same location and surrounding.

That needs addressing first before anything else.
"We didn't get as many takers" is a polite rewording of what I wrote... :eh:

lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:06 pm

sorry I interpreted "they" as being the rugby club in your post as opposed to "they" being us the football club.

quakersfan
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Re: AGM

Post by quakersfan » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:15 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:11 am
lo36789 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:02 am
al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though,
No, but the point is we had more takers last season without dedicated resource on it. So we know we at least have that latent demand to tap into and we are not even appealing to them . The fact of the matter product offering or sales this season has been less effective and appealed to less people than last season in the exact same location and surrounding.

That needs addressing first before anything else.
Yes there may well be latent demand for hospitality, or it could be that people tried it, weren't particularly impressed, and then won't come back. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.
I’ve been in hospitality a number of times this season and the food and service has greatly improved, there are 3 girls from an events company now serve so I’m not sure what the cost of what that is compared to Jo and Lauren. The current price is to high for our level and perhaps that’s why numbers have been lower this season. DJ has always said booking hospitality brings the most money into the club that’s why I do it.

spen666
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Re: AGM

Post by spen666 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:40 pm

Quakerlad wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:59 pm
Got to admit that I don’t fully understand business accounts.
What I don’t get though is that DJ said a year ago that lessons had been learnt and this year they would budget based on no cup run and lower attendances as they had learnt their lesson and the club must run within its means, hence large reduction in playing budget etc.
Yet without the £125k from the cups, we would be in the crap financially again if I have read things right.
Get that he has supported us with replacing injured players, but surely not to the tune of £100k+.
Just don’t get after a huge amount of revenue from the cups which wasn’t budgeted for and a slight increase in attendances why we are not in a better financial position.


The previous year there was said to be £107,000 more transfer fee income than this season, so that virtually completely cancels out the cup monies

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: AGM

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:44 pm

lo36789 wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:42 am
We can't fill the existing hospitality at Blackwell anymore because they've increased the prices.
That is misinformation - we increased the prices. We added more to it which costs more to operate but the margin was greater we just didn't get as many takers.
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:11 am
Do you think DRFC could be more reasonable working alongside us Yes or No.
Probably could but to suggest they are laughing to the bank and if we just went away from BM it would be a different story are very different things.
al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though,
No, but the point is we had more takers last season without dedicated resource on it. So we know we at least have that latent demand to tap into and we are not even appealing to them . The fact of the matter product offering or sales this season has been less effective and appealed to less people than last season in the exact same location and surrounding.

That needs addressing first before anything else.
Correct me if I am wrong but weren’t the Rugby Club in deep financial trouble, making redundancies etc before we arrived on the scene?Surely their finances must be significantly better since we came on board, hence my bank comment.They simply do not want us at BM other than from a financial aspect, hence my comment regarding if we did relocate to the arena they would get what they deserve regarding lost revenue.It is no secret that Martin Jesper was massively frustrated with them, they simply have been difficult from day one.


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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: AGM

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:05 pm

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:42 am
We can't fill the existing hospitality at Blackwell anymore because they've increased the prices.
That is misinformation - we increased the prices. We added more to it which costs more to operate but the margin was greater we just didn't get as many takers.
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:11 am
Do you think DRFC could be more reasonable working alongside us Yes or No.
Probably could but to suggest they are laughing to the bank and if we just went away from BM it would be a different story are very different things.
al_quaker wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:19 am
I believe these 2 points aren't helped by the facilities available to us at BM though,
No, but the point is we had more takers last season without dedicated resource on it. So we know we at least have that latent demand to tap into and we are not even appealing to them . The fact of the matter product offering or sales this season has been less effective and appealed to less people than last season in the exact same location and surrounding.

That needs addressing first before anything else.
Correct me if I am wrong but weren’t the Rugby Club in deep financial trouble, making redundancies etc before we arrived on the scene?Surely their finances must be significantly better since we came on board, hence my bank comment.They simply do not want us at BM other than from a financial aspect, hence my comment regarding if we did relocate to the arena they would get what they deserve regarding lost revenue.It is no secret that Martin Jesper was massively frustrated with them, they simply have been difficult from day one.


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But how much to break our contract.. We have battered this BM saga to death.. We simply can't afford to leave simple as that..And not many hate the place more than me but that's where we are..

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jjljks
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Re: AGM

Post by jjljks » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:09 pm

Certainly the rugby club were in trouble just before we came, as they had got rid of steward and other staff members in favour of volunteers in order to reduce costs. Consequently we have been footing the bill for a very amateurish service. which without our contributions could well have gone into administration. If we had had been allowed to stay at Bishop for a year or so, we may have been in a position to buy the ground from administrators. Obviously circumstances forced our move back into Town, but BM was the least worse option available. It still doesn't feel like 'home' or very suitable.

lo36789
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Re: AGM

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:40 pm

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:44 pm
They simply do not want us at BM other than from a financial aspect, hence my comment regarding if we did relocate to the arena they would get what they deserve regarding lost revenue.
Do they have to want us there for any other reason? Would it not be fair to say that we simply do not want to be at BM other than for a maintenance of our position in the pyramid and for our own financial reasons.

Under what other circumstances would you give up primacy of your own first team pitch - just to be benevolent?

There is always capacity to "do more" but if it is not going to make them money it is losing them money. Remember that club is their asset to sweat, if we are expecting to not pay them for a provision within it then that is time that they could have been sweating it with another potential customer.

There always comes across that there is some sort of 'gripe' that the rugby club should be charging us for using their facility and services, we are not a joint company with a shared profit and loss, every minute we are there is a minute they cannot make money from another customer so they have to charge us appropriately.

There are difficult personalities, to be honest the most difficult aren't exactly well liked in their own club, but there is a horrible bitterness that comes across in comments here. Most of it seems to be pretty pre-determined before we even moved in that there had to be a them versus us mentality and until the rugby club offer to give us something for nothing then those opinions will remain.

Given you feel so strong about their behaviour what are the top 5 commercial opportunities that the rugby club have prevented us from doing since we have moved back...

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Re: AGM

Post by Dilly-dilly » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:45 pm

Looking at Performance and raising Corporate revenue .
Taking last Season . Nothing Special indeed mediocre at best . Yet Outgoing CD Managed to obtain services of Pete Graves Sky Sports . Who also did presentations. All tables Sold out . Given Darlington FC status having been in Administration number of times . Building confidence and re-engaging building Confidence to Spend . Must have been a difficult role . Yet he did so .
At this place in time currently we have 1 Table !
Guest Speaker well thoughts on that all ready made by many . Yet we are looking at maybe making Playoffs . Think its Microwave Meals Provided at Blackwell certainly not good .
Where previous Quality Service and Food was provided.

biccynana
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Re: AGM

Post by biccynana » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:07 pm

Dilly-dilly wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:45 pm
Looking at Performance and raising Corporate revenue .
Taking last Season . Nothing Special indeed mediocre at best . Yet Outgoing CD Managed to obtain services of Pete Graves Sky Sports . Who also did presentations. All tables Sold out . Given Darlington FC status having been in Administration number of times . Building confidence and re-engaging building Confidence to Spend . Must have been a difficult role . Yet he did so .
At this place in time currently we have 1 Table !
Guest Speaker well thoughts on that all ready made by many . Yet we are looking at maybe making Playoffs . Think its Microwave Meals Provided at Blackwell certainly not good .
Where previous Quality Service and Food was provided.
Is it just me or does anyone else read this poster's, er, offerings and hear them in your mind being spoken by a synthesised voice, a la Radiohead's Fitter, Stronger? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4SzvsMFaek

onewayup
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Re: AGM

Post by onewayup » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:46 pm

You can't run with the given budgets because there's to many variables in a given season, adjustments are made as to however or wherever they are needed ,circumstances dictate what happens the board have to use their business knowledge to lessen the impact on the clubs finances, and i believe that the present incumbents do a very good job in keeping a tight rein on these. I personally think a move away from DRFC is the only viable option once a solution is found

tezza
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Re: AGM

Post by tezza » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:59 pm

biccynana wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:07 pm
Dilly-dilly wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:45 pm
Looking at Performance and raising Corporate revenue .
Taking last Season . Nothing Special indeed mediocre at best . Yet Outgoing CD Managed to obtain services of Pete Graves Sky Sports . Who also did presentations. All tables Sold out . Given Darlington FC status having been in Administration number of times . Building confidence and re-engaging building Confidence to Spend . Must have been a difficult role . Yet he did so .
At this place in time currently we have 1 Table !
Guest Speaker well thoughts on that all ready made by many . Yet we are looking at maybe making Playoffs . Think its Microwave Meals Provided at Blackwell certainly not good .
Where previous Quality Service and Food was provided.
Is it just me or does anyone else read this poster's, er, offerings and hear them in your mind being spoken by a synthesised voice, a la Radiohead's Fitter, Stronger? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4SzvsMFaek
Perhaps he has an axe to grind and feels he does it best after a bottle of red wine

Dilly-dilly
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Re: AGM

Post by Dilly-dilly » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:37 pm

Actually found that rather amusing . If that is status of your life and associated to DFC we are in deep trouble .

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