Coronavirus and DFC

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JE93
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by JE93 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:58 pm

Mister e wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:33 pm
No matter what decision is made at any level barrow must replace bury in the football league no arguments there. Also like I said a few weeks ago if the season is null and voided surely poor thommo reverts back to 94 goals and we didn't have a cup run after all.
Interesting one, the Yeovil Chairman has given an interview saying he's asked his lawyers to look into the question 'If the season is null and voided, would they by due another round of parachute payments from the FL?' as it would be as if this season had never happened. As Mr E says that would also have an effect on the likes of Thommo and his goal record etc. So many questions to be answered in all these scenarios, don't envy those having to make the decision.

As I said above for me finishing the season on a points per game basis and allowing the best performing clubs to be promoted and the worst to be relegated, is the best of a bad bunch of solutions. Give clubs the certainty early and allow them to start to prepare for a full 20/21 season even if it has to be started a little later.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:05 pm

Looks like the s*** is starting to hit the fan at Kings Lynn, whatever league they end up in. They have been spending well beyond their means and their dodgy chairman has been providing "loans" to the club but says he can't absorb all of the latest £100,000 shortfall that the club is facing. He has already said he won't be propping the club up beyond this season.

Now he's clearly got it in for the club's Supporters Trust who are reluctant to just hand over a wedge without conditions.... there's clearly suspicion and a lack of trust on both sides. I don't think this will end well.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by jjljks » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:58 am

Looks like the lawyers will be the only ones to come out of Covid19 with money in their pockets. No doubt there are subtle nuances and differences between "voided / anulled / furloughed / terminated" etc that will affect club finances. Really need FA & Leagues to get their fingers out, make some very hard decisions quickly as clubs need clarity to plan for future season.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 am

jjljks wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:58 am
Looks like the lawyers will be the only ones to come out of Covid19 with money in their pockets. No doubt there are subtle nuances and differences between "voided / anulled / furloughed / terminated" etc that will affect club finances. Really need FA & Leagues to get their fingers out, make some very hard decisions quickly as clubs need clarity to plan for future season.
my understanding is if something is voided its as though it never happened - goals scored wiped out, disciplinary records and fines annulled etc. Wonder where that leave players bonuses based on points, goals scored etc

If it is annulled, goals, disciplinary etc remain, but effectively league season is left incomplete

In reporting and discussions on social media these two terms seem to be used interchangeably even though they have very different legal meaning

The whole situation is very unfortunate and I would hope that clubs don't rush to lawyers ( Wishful thinking on my part I suspect) and the courts recognise that a pragmatic approach is needed to resolve this issue. Desperate situations call for unusual methods to resolve matters

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by H1987 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:06 am

I honestly believe there will be a strong desire for us to complete the season, and for that reason, there will not be a decision anytime soon.

That said, I can't see practically how the season can continue after the end of June due to the end of players contracts and loan contracts. Some teams are bound to be more heavily affected by those circumstances than others, and the sporting integrity goes out of the window if completely different teams end up finishing the season. I really don't see how you can promote and relegate anyone if the season is not completed. I've seen a lot of Leeds fans proclaiming the idea that they are already promoted, but they're only 7 points clear of Fulham with 9 games to go. That is not, by any measure, a done deal. Perhaps even more importantly, the relegation places in respective leagues are nearly all up to play for.

If the season is ended you could perhaps 'elect' a team to the football league to make up for Bury's absence (so the football league teams vote to allow the current top side in - Barrow). You could maybe even do the same to elect Liverpool as champions, but I don't see really see how in the heck you promote and relegate sides from most of the leagues when there is still a lot to play for. The thing is - you can't really play those games fairly if some teams lose a bunch of players and others don't. There's also the potential situation where - if things do change - as they will over time, some parts of the country will be more affected by quarantine measures than others. So I would expect London could end up locked down for longer - meaning their teams can't train while others can...

There are no easy answers, but I think rushing it is the last thing we should be doing. Ultimately, I feel like the longer this goes on, the less likely it is that we complete the season. There's the potential that the break ends up being longer than the average pre-season... and players won't have been able to train properly either. Does completing a season at breakneck speed, with unfit players behind closed doors really provide a better ending to the season than simply abandoning it? To me, I don't think it does, and I think it has the potential to provide even more unfair results to the clubs with less financial means. Some people are going to feel unfairly done by either way, but that is life. I'm sure all of us have lost something from this pandemic - whether it is work, travel plans (I have lost both), or in the worst-case scenario, loved ones. The idea that we can't lose some football is just nonsense.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:34 am

Exactly in the scheme of things it really doesn't matter and football is firmly put in its place perspective wise.

We are in March. If a players contract is up at the end of June he can now sign for a new club effective from 1st July - what happens with these players if current campaign is still going across those two months?

Personally I think taking the season off the table if we get to the end of May and still as we are is the best option. What I am hearing, it is second hand from an owner of a step 5 club is that annulment is the current expected outcome.

His club are in a promotion place at the mo on existing position and PPG but is expecting following meetings this week to restart in existing division next season.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by jjljks » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:54 am

Quite happy for Barrow to go up as they were more than sympathetic to us when we were in trouble. Covid19 has completely wrecked the season and really the FA and league management have to sort things out asap. Otherwise we should leave it to Ginge to do the maths and tell us who is up and who goes down :lol:

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Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm

They don’t have to “sort things out ASAP”. In fact, it’s impossible to do that given we don’t know what the spread of the virus will be like. It could still be rising or we could be through the worst. We just don’t know.

We know football is suspended until the end of April. That’s all the FA needed to do. Now we wait for Government and expert advice on when it’s safe to start playing again.

The National League and rest of non-league do need something within the next few weeks, because players in those divisions have contracts which end in April. But those meetings are already taking place.

So no, the FA don’t need to rush anything until we know more. This virus could be sorted in weeks, it might take much longer. Rushing into a decision could make things considerably worse.

Moronic fans demanding things “get sorted ASAP” isn’t going to help the situation in any way.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:18 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:06 am
I honestly believe there will be a strong desire for us to complete the season, and for that reason, there will not be a decision anytime soon.

That said, I can't see practically how the season can continue after the end of June due to the end of players contracts and loan contracts. Some teams are bound to be more heavily affected by those circumstances than others, and the sporting integrity goes out of the window if completely different teams end up finishing the season. I really don't see how you can promote and relegate anyone if the season is not completed. I've seen a lot of Leeds fans proclaiming the idea that they are already promoted, but they're only 7 points clear of Fulham with 9 games to go. That is not, by any measure, a done deal. Perhaps even more importantly, the relegation places in respective leagues are nearly all up to play for.

If the season is ended you could perhaps 'elect' a team to the football league to make up for Bury's absence (so the football league teams vote to allow the current top side in - Barrow). You could maybe even do the same to elect Liverpool as champions, but I don't see really see how in the heck you promote and relegate sides from most of the leagues when there is still a lot to play for. The thing is - you can't really play those games fairly if some teams lose a bunch of players and others don't. There's also the potential situation where - if things do change - as they will over time, some parts of the country will be more affected by quarantine measures than others. So I would expect London could end up locked down for longer - meaning their teams can't train while others can...

There are no easy answers, but I think rushing it is the last thing we should be doing. Ultimately, I feel like the longer this goes on, the less likely it is that we complete the season. There's the potential that the break ends up being longer than the average pre-season... and players won't have been able to train properly either. Does completing a season at breakneck speed, with unfit players behind closed doors really provide a better ending to the season than simply abandoning it? To me, I don't think it does, and I think it has the potential to provide even more unfair results to the clubs with less financial means. Some people are going to feel unfairly done by either way, but that is life. I'm sure all of us have lost something from this pandemic - whether it is work, travel plans (I have lost both), or in the worst-case scenario, loved ones. The idea that we can't lose some football is just nonsense.
Very good post :clap: In fact the best I've read on here so far.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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lo36789
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:53 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm
They don’t have to “sort things out ASAP”. In fact, it’s impossible to do that given we don’t know what the spread of the virus will be like. It could still be rising or we could be through the worst. We just don’t know.
I think the fact it it is still rising suggest it is still rising to be honest, but I guess equally we won't know it has stopped rising.

In terms of good news Italy do appear to have peaked when looking at new case volumes day to day - I suspect they will be a guide on how long after the peak restrictions remain in place for.

There is pretty strong expectation as well that this is here for a while otherwise telling the vulnerable to shield for 12 weeks seems strange.

There is no need for an ASAP judgement. I do think there is another two months until we really need a call to be made from a pro perspective but as you say below that it is probably in next few weeks.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Shed7 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:38 pm

Excellent post and to be fair you cannot promote/relegate teams with 30 points to play for. This will happen if they go on PPG. I actually think york would have won league and Altrincham to win play offs.
Let’s just say they promote the top 2 and relegate the bottom 2 this would be the outcome for our league.
Out -
York promoted
Kings Lynn promoted
Bradford PA relegated
Blyth relegated
Hereford geographic move to south

In -
Chorley relegated
Afc fylde relegated
South Shields promoted
FC United if Manchester promoted
Tamworth promoted

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:18 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:17 pm
They don’t have to “sort things out ASAP”. In fact, it’s impossible to do that given we don’t know what the spread of the virus will be like. It could still be rising or we could be through the worst. We just don’t know.
I think the fact it it is still rising suggest it is still rising to be honest, but I guess equally we won't know it has stopped rising.

In terms of good news Italy do appear to have peaked when looking at new case volumes day to day - I suspect they will be a guide on how long after the peak restrictions remain in place for.

There is pretty strong expectation as well that this is here for a while otherwise telling the vulnerable to shield for 12 weeks seems strange.

There is no need for an ASAP judgement. I do think there is another two months until we really need a call to be made from a pro perspective but as you say below that it is probably in next few weeks.
Not sure what you mean by the first paragraph.

But yes I agree with the latter point - it’s hard to say: “Let’s bring back mass gatherings again” while at the same time shielding the most vulnerable for 12 weeks.
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Magical Quakers » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:48 pm

Perhaps it will last exactly a year anyway and then we can just finish off the 19/21 season as if nothing happened :lol:

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:51 pm

Shed7 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:38 pm
Excellent post and to be fair you cannot promote/relegate teams with 30 points to play for. This will happen if they go on PPG. I actually think york would have won league and Altrincham to win play offs.
Let’s just say they promote the top 2 and relegate the bottom 2 this would be the outcome for our league.
Out -
York promoted
Kings Lynn promoted
Bradford PA relegated
Blyth relegated
Hereford geographic move to south

In -
Chorley relegated
Afc fylde relegated
South Shields promoted
FC United if Manchester promoted
Tamworth promoted
There are normally 4 teams relegated from the National League, you are promoting 4 (2NLN and 2 NLS), but only relegating 2 ( plus Bury vacancy). This means there would be 25 teams in NL next season

Also if there is a need to shuffle a team South, would it not be Gloucester?

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Mister e » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:02 pm

jjljks wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:54 am
Quite happy for Barrow to go up as they were more than sympathetic to us when we were in trouble. Covid19 has completely wrecked the season and really the FA and league management have to sort things out asap. Otherwise we should leave it to Ginge to do the maths and tell us who is up and who goes down :lol:
Absolutely spot on about barrow they not only were sympathetic to our course in 2012 but I wonder if a lot of our older fans remember we're cruelly robbed of their football league place in the 1971 - 72 season when being voted out despite applying for re-election for only the second time I remember them beating us 1 0 at feethams in a snow storm the Monday before Easter we then went down to holker Street three weeks later and came away with a 4 0 victory two days after winning 1 0 at sincil bank and ending Lincoln cities 19 game unbeaten home record halcyon days.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by lo36789 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:27 pm

Confirmed. Steps 3 and below of non League have ended. It's "as you were" no restructure this season. Results expunged.

https://nwcfl.com/news-articles.php?id=8193

That basically means no relegation from our league I don't think and who knows where Bury end up.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm

Blyth are lucky

South Shields unlucky


Teams at the bottom can simply not bother in remaining games as can't go down

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by joejaques » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:51 pm

spen666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Blyth are lucky

South Shields unlucky


Teams at the bottom can simply not bother in remaining games as can't go down
Which remaining games? The season is over. :roll:
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:26 pm

joejaques wrote:
spen666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Blyth are lucky

South Shields unlucky


Teams at the bottom can simply not bother in remaining games as can't go down
Which remaining games? The season is over. :roll:
Blyth games , it's not over till the fat cats at the Fa sing

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by spen666 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm

joejaques wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:51 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Blyth are lucky

South Shields unlucky


Teams at the bottom can simply not bother in remaining games as can't go down
Which remaining games? The season is over. :roll:
Not in the 3 divisions of the National League. It's only been ended from Steps 3 and below.....at present
Last edited by spen666 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by joejaques » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:11 pm

spen666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm
joejaques wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:51 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:36 pm
Blyth are lucky

South Shields unlucky


Teams at the bottom can simply not bother in remaining games as can't go down
Which remaining games? The season is over. :roll:
Not in the 3 divisions of the National League. It's only been ended from Steps 3 and below
And you really believe they will end up any different? :roll:
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by quakersfan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 pm

If the club are proactive they should put all PAYE staff as furloughed staff as at least 80% of PAYE costs will be covered.
I don’t think they will be able to apply for CBIL due to the previous accounts and the fact the banks are looking for security, as we don’t have any.

Most players finish up being paid end of April I believe so actual position may not be as bad as feared also DJ said he would help any cash flow. Also could DFCSG bring forward their annual subscription. We might actually fare better than most clubs.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by joejaques » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:36 pm

quakersfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 pm
If the club are proactive they should put all PAYE staff as furloughed staff as at least 80% of PAYE costs will be covered.
I don’t think they will be able to apply for CBIL due to the previous accounts and the fact the banks are looking for security, as we don’t have any.

Most players finish up being paid end of April I believe so actual position may not be as bad as feared also DJ said he would help any cash flow. Also could DFCSG bring forward their annual subscription. We might actually fare better than most clubs.
That's a good idea, but would suggest leaving it until the Virtual Tickets are completed. Don't want to overload the fans. :roll:
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by Mister e » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:27 pm

I would love to contribute in an ideal world but like many other people at the moment and being self employed this sodden virus has thrown me on the scrap heap albeit I hope only temporary and each and every one of us get our normal lives back soon.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:40 pm

I watched Martin Lewis tonight. He was most insistent that employees who couldn't work because of this crisis can be "furloughed", meaning the Gov just feed back 80% of their wage back through their pay packet. He even told a story of a friend of his who had just been sacked. Martin Lewis said to him, explain to the firm that they can take you back on, the Gov want to help you and it won't cost the firm anything, and this is what happened.

So bearing all this in mind, why on earth has Raj Singh made all these Hartlepool employees jobless in such double quick time. There seems to be no reason to act like this.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by joejaques » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:50 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:40 pm
I watched Martin Lewis tonight. He was most insistent that employees who couldn't work because of this crisis can be "furloughed", meaning the Gov just feed back 80% of their wage back through their pay packet. He even told a story of a friend of his who had just been sacked. Martin Lewis said to him, explain to the firm that they can take you back on, the Gov want to help you and it won't cost the firm anything, and this is what happened.

So bearing all this in mind, why on earth has Raj Singh made all these Hartlepool employees jobless in such double quick time. There seems to be no reason to act like this.
Just as much reason as he had to keep the Football Share, which was of no value o him. :roll:
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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by loan_star » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:59 pm

From what I gather these were seasonal jobs anyway and they are let go during the close season. Singh has merely brought that forward. As much as I hate the bloke I don't think he has done anything wrong here.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by LoidLucan » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:08 pm

I still think Raj may be starting to think that him and football just weren't meant to be.

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:00 pm

loan_star wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:59 pm
From what I gather these were seasonal jobs anyway and they are let go during the close season. Singh has merely brought that forward. As much as I hate the bloke I don't think he has done anything wrong here.
Okay, still probably could have helped them though, I mean kept them on until the end of the season, or through this rocky patch.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Coronavirus and DFC

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:32 am

LoidLucan wrote:Looks like the s*** is starting to hit the fan at Kings Lynn, whatever league they end up in. They have been spending well beyond their means and their dodgy chairman has been providing "loans" to the club but says he can't absorb all of the latest £100,000 shortfall that the club is facing. He has already said he won't be propping the club up beyond this season.

Now he's clearly got it in for the club's Supporters Trust who are reluctant to just hand over a wedge without conditions.... there's clearly suspicion and a lack of trust on both sides. I don't think this will end well.

https://www.kltown.co.uk/single-post/20 ... -statement
Can't be too bad at Kings Lynn they have just signed a left back from Buxton for a undisclosed fee(£10,000 apparently) BUT signing players at this time seems crazy , but good on the lad as his season was over a day or two ago but not now (Hopefully)

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