The moment we've all been waiting for...

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lo36789
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by lo36789 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:14 pm

Nantwich Town have effectively closed in their latest statement.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:21 pm

If we effectively only have a license to play at Blackwell, and pay so much a game - do we still have any liability? We don’t own the ground or any part of it. I don’t wish any problems onto the rugby club but the Government have closed football down so are we liable for rent on something we can’t use?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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divas
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by divas » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:37 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:21 pm
If we effectively only have a license to play at Blackwell, and pay so much a game - do we still have any liability? We don’t own the ground or any part of it. I don’t wish any problems onto the rugby club but the Government have closed football down so are we liable for rent on something we can’t use?
We pay a set fee per season (paid monthly) for a set number of games rather than on a match by match basis

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Old Git » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:52 pm

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:08 am
Still not answered the question about how WE will survive better than other clubs Pete??

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Give it a rest Harry. Sounding like a broken record now.
Several of us have stated Pete included that we believe our costs may be lower than some clubs and we are not reliant on the whim of a single benefactor.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by jjljks » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:18 pm

Rishi Sunak says he will pay a grant to enable the club to cover 80% of wages where we are unable to operate due to Covid19 to avoid laying off workers. Deferring VAT until June which will help too. Will still be a struggle to keep the club together, but we can do it.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:27 pm

Old Git wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:08 am
Still not answered the question about how WE will survive better than other clubs Pete??

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Give it a rest Harry. Sounding like a broken record now.
Several of us have stated Pete included that we believe our costs may be lower than some clubs and we are not reliant on the whim of a single benefactor.
I will just for youImage

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:38 pm

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:08 am
The RFU has just announced that they are ending the season for all but the top flight so hard times ahead for our landlords.


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They hardly get any crowds, so I would presume that they would lose money on each game they play. Darlington MP will also be in trouble, especially as would seem likely Tom Jones is cancelled at the Arena. Yes I think a lot of clubs that have rich benefactors will be extremely worried, as the owners may pull out having lost so much of their wealth due to the Coronavirus outbreak. Players wages will decrease as they will have to be realistic, but any clubs that have a rich benefactor could really profit from this as they'll still be able to attract decent wages & so naturally the best talent will want to play for them.
Still not answered the question about how WE will survive better than other clubs Pete??

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Because unlike a lot of clubs at our level we have a large fanbase, that has repeatedly helped to subsidise the club. Fans will be asked again to help with btb & I'm sure there will be a very positive response from the fans, especially if the very survival of the club could be under threat.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:00 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:08 am
The RFU has just announced that they are ending the season for all but the top flight so hard times ahead for our landlords.


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They hardly get any crowds, so I would presume that they would lose money on each game they play. Darlington MP will also be in trouble, especially as would seem likely Tom Jones is cancelled at the Arena. Yes I think a lot of clubs that have rich benefactors will be extremely worried, as the owners may pull out having lost so much of their wealth due to the Coronavirus outbreak. Players wages will decrease as they will have to be realistic, but any clubs that have a rich benefactor could really profit from this as they'll still be able to attract decent wages & so naturally the best talent will want to play for them.
Still not answered the question about how WE will survive better than other clubs Pete??

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Because unlike a lot of clubs at our level we have a large fanbase, that has repeatedly helped to subsidise the club. Fans will be asked again to help with btb & I'm sure there will be a very positive response from the fans, especially if the very survival of the club could be under threat.
But we don't have a bottomless pit of cash as people have to feed there families and football will take a back step unfortunately..

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:27 pm

We’re without a doubt more exposed because of the fact we’re heavily reliant on gate income. Obviously fans fund the club through other means too (BTB etc) but unlike a club with a single owner who can pump money in, getting people through the door on a matchday is hugely significant for us.

Hence why the talk of us being better off because we’re not at the whim of a single owner is wishful thinking.

We’re at the whim of a few hundred people who don’t have money to burn, and will indeed have to prioritise themselves and families during this crisis.

We struggle financially at the best of times, so let’s not kid ourselves that it’s going to be anything other than really difficult in the next few months.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by quaker4life » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:49 am

jjljks wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:18 pm
Rishi Sunak says he will pay a grant to enable the club to cover 80% of wages where we are unable to operate due to Covid19 to avoid laying off workers. Deferring VAT until June which will help too. Will still be a struggle to keep the club together, but we can do it.
He didn't say any such thing.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by lo36789 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:40 am

He has said 80% coverage of salaries for staff who are furloughed. I think it's fair to say that our players are furloughed as they are not allowed to work - so would we expect to be covered?

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by MB86DFC » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:49 am

lo36789 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:40 am
He has said 80% coverage of salaries for staff who are furloughed. I think it's fair to say that our players are furloughed as they are not allowed to work - so would we expect to be covered?
Does it depending they’re on employment contracts or self employed contractor status?

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:57 am

Our players are on the books surely, I'm sure they are not self employed. This 80% thing (if I've understood i correctly) could really be a lifeline for DFC -
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by MB86DFC » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:20 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:57 am
Our players are on the books surely, I'm sure they are not self employed. This 80% thing (if I've understood i correctly) could really be a lifeline for DFC -
I hope so

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by en passant » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:04 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:27 pm
We’re without a doubt more exposed because of the fact we’re heavily reliant on gate income. Obviously fans fund the club through other means too (BTB etc) but unlike a club with a single owner who can pump money in, getting people through the door on a matchday is hugely significant for us.

Hence why the talk of us being better off because we’re not at the whim of a single owner is wishful thinking.

We’re at the whim of a few hundred people who don’t have money to burn, and will indeed have to prioritise themselves and families during this crisis.

We struggle financially at the best of times, so let’s not kid ourselves that it’s going to be anything other than really difficult in the next few months.
Absolutely agree with this. Having read through this thread at length the outstanding comment appears to be Darlo Pete's view on the better sustainability of our model over that of single owner clubs. This seems to be on the basis that single owners will get frightened off by an enforced layoff and will leave their vanity projects in the lurch. I know that we suffered at the hands of a single owner doing this to us but that is not the norm by any means. Gramps makes the point that we are far more reliant on a week to week income that has now dried up than the single owner model. How often have people wondered at clubs like Brackley being able to put out a competitive side on gates in the 300 to 400 average. If these owners are prepared to underwrite these clubs to that extent it is less of a strain for them to take on the extra cost of a lack of a few hundred than it is for us to cough up for the loss of income based on an average of one and a half thousand. And whilst it is possible for a single owner to back out it is far more likely that, under the financial strains that enforced isolation and reduced work will bring to so many households, that the collective backing of a fan owned club will be unable to cover the club's losses as they struggle to cover their own personal shortfall in income. Whilst we have been absolutely magnificent to date in covering the club's need for funds under normal circumstances, this abnormal situation will certainly find some of the most dedicated backers unable find the funds to keep us going. And as we are a collective and dependent on all the contributions all of the time, if some are unable to continue that will immediately have a detrimental effect on the ability of the club to cover its present level of income. We are so used to seeing 500 plus dedicated backers digging deep to help keep things going that it is easy to believe they will always be able to do so. But what if 200 or 300 of these just can't hack it whilst under the lockdown? This is a far more likely situation than a moneybags owner getting anxious over having to stretch his half million input to another 20,000, but would have a disastrous effect on our ability to cover costs.
All in all I can't see any reason to believe that, without serious government and league help, that we will be able to come through this unharmed and certainly not in a better state than single owner clubs. As Gramps says, to think otherwise is just wishful thinking.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:56 am

I get exactly what you’re saying en passant. That’s why it’s important for those fortunate amongst us that haven’t been adversely affected by the economic effects of social distancing to do what we can. Strangely, some will find they have more cash in their pockets by not being able to spend on travel, pubs, clubs, restaurants, football etc but are in secure employment

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by en passant » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:35 am

Yes you are right that some may be in that fortunate position for the present, and may have the additional money to spend due to the closure of other places to spend their cash. But it is also clear that the current attempts to beat the virus may yet close other business and cause more financial hardship to even those who currently might feel themselves to be secure. I am not sure that many of us can be so certain of where this thing is going to take us that we will be able to confidently put the club's interests before our own and those of our families. Unlike Pete, I am not at all sure that a substantial number of our regular funders will remain unaffected by the current situation and that this will not have a detrimental effect on the club's ability to raise the level of funds we have seen in the recent past.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by spen666 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:56 am

Let's hope that neither of the doomsday scenarios happen rather than arguing over a hypothetical situation

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:43 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:27 pm
We’re without a doubt more exposed because of the fact we’re heavily reliant on gate income.
I don't think it's as bad as you think regarding gate income because more than half of it comes through season ticket holders who have of course paid for the whole season. Regarding total income, obviously gate income only forms part of our turnover, as we have sponsorship deals and BTB etc.

So really on the day gate income is a part of, a part of, our income.

As the club says, worst case scenario if the season doesn't finish is 20 grand loss of income (of which we've raised 2k already), and if the season does continue at that point then we'd expect to bring that money in. If everyone was pay at the gate then the potential loss of income would be much greater.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:10 pm

Sponsorship could take a big hit if companies can't attord to renew or go bust.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Old Git » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:59 pm

Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pm

Old Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
Well you just haveImage He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like this

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by biccynana » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:36 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:14 pm
Nantwich Town have effectively closed in their latest statement.
Better news for Brora Rangers - declared winners of the truncated Highland League season, 13 points clear with six games to go.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Old Git » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:03 am

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pm
Old Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
Well you just haveImage He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like this

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Sorry just stating a fact. You must be Craig or one of his friends I assume.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Emdubya » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:17 am

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pm
Old Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
Well you just haveImage He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like this

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Don’t you think that if he was such a great asset to the club he would still be employed by the club?

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:18 pm

Old Git wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pm
Old Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
Well you just haveImage He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like this

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Sorry just stating a fact. You must be Craig or one of his friends I assume.
Bestie..

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:18 pm

Emdubya wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pm
Old Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
Well you just haveImage He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like this

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Don’t you think that if he was such a great asset to the club he would still be employed by the club?
I take it you know what went on??

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:27 pm

It is still my view that this season will finish.

To me you can't have a season that doesn't conclude as there is too much riding on it for everyone, and you simply can not have any kind of Statty type formula which is fair.

Football at some point will recommence and when it does finishing this present season will be more important to what comes next.

Next season could be adapted in numerous ways before a ball is kicked so that everyone knows what is going on and so that it is fair for everyone.

Furthermore it seems possible that further lockdowns in the future may also occur. If this present season isn't finished then there could be a situation whereby next season could be paused....then what? Two consecutive seasons binned?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by Mister e » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:14 pm

Like I have said on another thread let's finish this season at the start of next season - and then split the league in two just for next season regionalising the two halves if possible which would cut costs. With a one off league cup competition maybe split into four groups of six to subsidize the missing league games. Scrap the play offs for next season only with the winner of each half league automatically promoted.

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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...

Post by quaker4life » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:47 pm

Mister e wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:14 pm
Like I have said on another thread let's finish this season at the start of next season - and then split the league in two just for next season regionalising the two halves if possible which would cut costs. With a one off league cup competition maybe split into four groups of six to subsidize the missing league games. Scrap the play offs for next season only with the winner of each half league automatically promoted.
Not going to happen.

And also you do realise our league is already regionalised? (apparently)
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