Season VOIDED

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Mister e
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Mister e » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:20 am

Excellent couple of posts gramps but like I've stated elsewhere I don't know what your opinion is but I think for the integrity of both league and non league football barrow must be allowed to fill the vacancy in the football league created by the sad demise of bury.

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Quaker85
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Quaker85 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:50 am

Mister e wrote:Excellent couple of posts gramps but like I've stated elsewhere I don't know what your opinion is but I think for the integrity of both league and non league football barrow must be allowed to fill the vacancy in the football league created by the sad demise of bury.
Absolutely not! If SS, and Stockton are not to be promoted then neither are Barrow. None of them are mathematically certain anyway. All of non league football should be treated the same. Expect that to be confirmed today.


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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:02 am

Mister e wrote:Excellent couple of posts gramps but like I've stated elsewhere I don't know what your opinion is but I think for the integrity of both league and non league football barrow must be allowed to fill the vacancy in the football league created by the sad demise of bury.
I would have completed the season on a PPG basis, so would have still had promotion and relegation. On that basis I would have no issue with Barrow going up.

But if the National League follows the same path as the rest of non-league, I’m struggling to see how anyone can justify Barrow getting promoted but no one else in non-league moving up or down. There are sides who have promotion confirmed, but would stay where they are, while Barrow are “only” four points clear and could easily be caught. So I think it would actually compromise the integrity of the pyramid system if Barrow were able to be promoted, but no other non-league moved division.

I could see a scenario where the EFL want a promoted club to get back up to their own full quota of 72 sides. But I don’t think in the grand scheme of things that’s particularly essential. Operating with 23 League One or Two teams and keeping the same number of relegation places for next season is a fairly minor issue in comparison to everything else going on.
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by spen666 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:21 am

Mister e wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:20 am
Excellent couple of posts gramps but like I've stated elsewhere I don't know what your opinion is but I think for the integrity of both league and non league football barrow must be allowed to fill the vacancy in the football league created by the sad demise of bury.
if the 2019/2020 season has been voided, have Bury been expelled from the Football League? They were expelled during season 2019/2020

There is an argument that there is not a vacancy in the Football League

Old Git
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Old Git » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:53 am

Agree with Gramps would have decided promotion and relegation on a PPG basis which would have been the fairest way with the majority of the season completed. It would have been transparent and provided a clear resolution to the current situation. Under such a scheme Barrow would be promoted to the EFL but if the NL season is voided that can not happen.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by banktopp » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:35 am

spen666 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:21 am
Mister e wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:20 am
Excellent couple of posts gramps but like I've stated elsewhere I don't know what your opinion is but I think for the integrity of both league and non league football barrow must be allowed to fill the vacancy in the football league created by the sad demise of bury.
if the 2019/2020 season has been voided, have Bury been expelled from the Football League? They were expelled during season 2019/2020

There is an argument that there is not a vacancy in the Football League
By that argument all fines, suspensions, red and yellow cards must be voided as well. Don't think so.

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Magical Quakers
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Magical Quakers » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:39 am

Surely that should happen though.

If we are saying Thommos goals don't count, then any red cards shouldn't count either.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by comeondarlo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am

Old Git wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:53 am
Agree with Gramps would have decided promotion and relegation on a PPG basis which would have been the fairest way with the majority of the season completed. It would have been transparent and provided a clear resolution to the current situation. Under such a scheme Barrow would be promoted to the EFL but if the NL season is voided that can not happen.
We agree! I actual think in talking this through we have got closer to a fairer decision, I really hope the FA have similar dialogue....
As I’ve said all along voiding should be the last resort not the first.

Also as fans we have a responsibility, the ‘I’m alright Jack attitude’ shouldn’t come into it. Voiding the season seems to be fine with some Darlo fans but it shouldn’t be. Not so bad on here but on Twitter it’s terrible, we can’t pick and choose who the FA is fair to (eg we like Barrow so they should be promoted but we dislike York/South Shields so it’s funny If they’re harshly dealt with).

Tribalism or self interest should not win through, the integrity of the league should be respected.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:52 am

comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am
‘I’m alright Jack attitude’
"I'm alright Jack Grealish attitude" - I see he's made a right tit of himself!
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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lo36789
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by lo36789 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:56 am

comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am
Old Git wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:53 am
Agree with Gramps would have decided promotion and relegation on a PPG basis which would have been the fairest way with the majority of the season completed. It would have been transparent and provided a clear resolution to the current situation. Under such a scheme Barrow would be promoted to the EFL but if the NL season is voided that can not happen.
We agree! I actual think in talking this through we have got closer to a fairer decision, I really hope the FA have similar dialogue....
As I’ve said all along voiding should be the last resort not the first.

Also as fans we have a responsibility, the ‘I’m alright Jack attitude’ shouldn’t come into it. Voiding the season seems to be fine with some Darlo fans but it shouldn’t be. Not so bad on here but on Twitter it’s terrible, we can’t pick and choose who the FA is fair to (eg we like Barrow so they should be promoted but we dislike York/South Shields so it’s funny If they’re harshly dealt with).

Tribalism or self interest should not win through, the integrity of the league should be respected.
Let's not forget PPG will be equally harsh on teams at the bottom as voiding is on teams at the top.

Btw what if the the EFL members voted to nominate a club to replace Bury? If they get 75% of members to agree to a change in the rules I would suspect that they can.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by comeondarlo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:56 am
comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am
Old Git wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:53 am
Agree with Gramps would have decided promotion and relegation on a PPG basis which would have been the fairest way with the majority of the season completed. It would have been transparent and provided a clear resolution to the current situation. Under such a scheme Barrow would be promoted to the EFL but if the NL season is voided that can not happen.
We agree! I actual think in talking this through we have got closer to a fairer decision, I really hope the FA have similar dialogue....
As I’ve said all along voiding should be the last resort not the first.

Also as fans we have a responsibility, the ‘I’m alright Jack attitude’ shouldn’t come into it. Voiding the season seems to be fine with some Darlo fans but it shouldn’t be. Not so bad on here but on Twitter it’s terrible, we can’t pick and choose who the FA is fair to (eg we like Barrow so they should be promoted but we dislike York/South Shields so it’s funny If they’re harshly dealt with).

Tribalism or self interest should not win through, the integrity of the league should be respected.
Let's not forget PPG will be equally harsh on teams at the bottom as voiding is on teams at the top.

Btw what if the the EFL members voted to nominate a club to replace Bury? If they get 75% of members to agree to a change in the rules I would suspect that they can.
Equally as harsh! I don’t think so.....

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by comeondarlo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:12 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:52 am
comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:40 am
‘I’m alright Jack attitude’
"I'm alright Jack Grealish attitude" - I see he's made a right tit of himself!
Again! I’m not a fan at the best of times tbh

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by spen666 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:21 am

banktopp wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:35 am
spen666 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:21 am
Mister e wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:20 am
Excellent couple of posts gramps but like I've stated elsewhere I don't know what your opinion is but I think for the integrity of both league and non league football barrow must be allowed to fill the vacancy in the football league created by the sad demise of bury.
if the 2019/2020 season has been voided, have Bury been expelled from the Football League? They were expelled during season 2019/2020

There is an argument that there is not a vacancy in the Football League
By that argument all fines, suspensions, red and yellow cards must be voided as well. Don't think so.
Either season is voided or not.

If it is voided, then all fines etc must be voided.

Suspensions remaining from 2018/19 season would not be spent either.


Its a bag of worms to say season is voided

LoidLucan
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:24 am

There are teams in relegation spots who have hit form and with every chance of getting out of trouble who would just be relegated under PPG despite their efforts in battling back. Equally you've got a side like King's Lynn who would be promoted under PPG whose form over the last 6 games had collapsed and other sides felt they had every chance of catching.

There certainly wasn't an easy solution and one that would have pleased everyone but I can see why they went down this route of ruling that we just start again with the status quo before the season started.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by comeondarlo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:42 am

LoidLucan wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:24 am
There are teams in relegation spots who have hit form and with every chance of getting out of trouble who would just be relegated under PPG despite their efforts in battling back. Equally you've got a side like King's Lynn who would be promoted under PPG whose form over the last 6 games had collapsed and other sides felt they had every chance of catching.

There certainly wasn't an easy solution and one that would have pleased everyone but I can see why they went down this route of ruling that we just start again with the status quo before the season started.
So can I, it’s the easy option. I see the ‘season’ still counts for the system where Refs are concerned.
Double standards, no integrity, ultimately very bad for football.

al_quaker
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by al_quaker » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:59 am

I don't think voiding the season is the easy option - I just think, from what I've seen and read anyway, it's the most realistically workable solution.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 am

It's a tricky one but surely you can't erase history. Goals happened. Red cards happened. Pies were sold. Programmes were printed with info in them. Money was taken and wages paid.

All this can't not exist. Whether it means anything in respect to promotion and relegation is a separate question.

I still hold the view that this season should be concluded however I take the point that this is now looking doubtful.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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loan_star
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by loan_star » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:11 am

You can guarantee that any fines owed to the FA will still be expected to be paid, even if the games they were relating to are voided.
Can of worms is an understatement. Even on here we all have different opinions so imagine what thats like over every club in the pyramid, especially with clubs that have invested a small fortune in going for promotion.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by comeondarlo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:15 am

al_quaker wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:59 am
I don't think voiding the season is the easy option - I just think, from what I've seen and read anyway, it's the most realistically workable solution.
You’ve just used more words to describe ‘easy’!

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by al_quaker » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:38 am

comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:15 am
al_quaker wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:59 am
I don't think voiding the season is the easy option - I just think, from what I've seen and read anyway, it's the most realistically workable solution.
You’ve just used more words to describe ‘easy’!
No I haven't - being realistic is not the same as being easy. All potential decisions are difficult, fraught with problems and with winners and losers. Nothing about this situation is 'easy'.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by lo36789 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:51 am

comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am
Equally as harsh! I don’t think so.....
What is more unfair that losing your position in the pyramid than not having actually played it to the death?

Remember the teams at the top haven't won anything yet, equally the teams at the bottom haven't lost anything as yet.
comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:42 am
So can I, it’s the easy option. I see the ‘season’ still counts for the system where Refs are concerned.
Double standards, no integrity, ultimately very bad for football.
It does but for a very different reason. Every year 5-10% of officials in the professional game retire through age, injury or other commitments. If they say it doesn't count when football does restart you are 10% down on numbers in every division.

Also for perspective a referees season isn't x number of scheduled games it is as many games as you are appointed to within the marking season so there isn't quite the same scheduling involved.

But yes if the EFL follow the NLS some will now lose their households main income as a result of the season being cut short as they miss 9 games to improve their position in the merit table.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm

Bizarrely, there might be some clubs that could be quite happy to be relegated under PPG. I can’t imagine they would relish another season in NLN unless they unearth a pot of gold in the meantime

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Mister e » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:45 pm

Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm
Bizarrely, there might be some clubs that could be quite happy to be relegated under PPG. I can’t imagine they would relish another season in NLN unless they unearth a pot of gold in the meantime
When your talking about cash strapped clubs in our division I fear for the likes of alfreton town Maurice what a year from hell they've had biblical floods in the north Midlands a popular former player murdered on a night out by a gang of thugs and now this.further down the pyramid this could be the final nail in the coffin for the likes of tadcaster Albion whose ground was flooded for the umpteenth time recently
Maybe the demise of clubs is going to create vacancies and promotion places further up the pyramid has this tragedy plays out. Grim reading acceptably but I'm also only being realistic.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by lo36789 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:44 pm

I think this thread is quite a measured view on why even PPG isn't perfect. Also seems to suggest 45/60 clubs who signed the letter would be promoted under PPG - not really a surprise they think it is unfair.

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/sta ... 89026?s=19

I think it was always going to be in imperfect outcome and because of that the default is to basically call it.

Why they didn't just say curtailment positions and records stand but promotion / relegation do not take place is again 'another' matter.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:54 pm

The League have now suspended matches indefinitely. Basically the news is there is no news.

Trouble is their hand will be forced in the next few weeks anyway because of the contract situation. They’ll have to offer some clarity to clubs so players know what they’re doing.
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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by comeondarlo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:58 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:44 pm
I think this thread is quite a measured view on why even PPG isn't perfect. Also seems to suggest 45/60 clubs who signed the letter would be promoted under PPG - not really a surprise they think it is unfair.

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/sta ... 89026?s=19

I think it was always going to be in imperfect outcome and because of that the default is to basically call it.

Why they didn't just say curtailment positions and records stand but promotion / relegation do not take place is again 'another' matter.
12 clubs with integrity!

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by al_quaker » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:12 pm

comeondarlo wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:58 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:44 pm
I think this thread is quite a measured view on why even PPG isn't perfect. Also seems to suggest 45/60 clubs who signed the letter would be promoted under PPG - not really a surprise they think it is unfair.

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/sta ... 89026?s=19

I think it was always going to be in imperfect outcome and because of that the default is to basically call it.

Why they didn't just say curtailment positions and records stand but promotion / relegation do not take place is again 'another' matter.
12 clubs with integrity!
I think you're being hyperbolic. Those with nothing to play for who believe it's best to void the season don't lack integrity. They just happen to disagree with you on how to end the season in these unprecedented times

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:29 pm

I think they are going to void it but just double checking on the position over possible legal challenges/claims.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:46 pm

The longer this lockdown goes on, then the less likely the FA decision will b overturned. Whatever the final decision is made will upset clubs & there fans in equal measure. Damned if you do & damned if you don't.

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Re: Season VOIDED

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:52 pm

It's now official that the 3 divisions of the National League have seen the 2019/20 season has been suspended indefinitely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52092442

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