National League advises ending the season

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National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:44 pm

The National League is going to hold a vote on whether to hold any more fixtures this season. The league themselves are advising clubs to vote in favour (I.E. we wouldn’t play again in the 19/20 season).

Should that vote be passed, there’ll then be a follow-up on vote on several options for how the season should end (e.g. null and void it entirely, lock-in current positions, proceeding with promotion and relegation).

For clarity, the actual options in a potential second vote haven’t been revealed.

Things are about to get a bit messy I think, but from the looks of it, I’d be surprised if we play again in the 19/20 season.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:02 pm

I agree I think playing & finishing this season is unlikely. Players & fans need a rest & going from finishing a season straight into a new season would cause so many problems. I think it is a clever move to offer clubs different choices as to how this season would be classified, but I still think whatever choice is made, it could well be challenged in the courts.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Old Git » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:50 pm

Inevitably this season is going to be over now. Whether any consensus can be reached regarding how to move forward is another matter but lets hope clubs see the bigger picture.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by don'tbuythesun » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:52 pm

Hopefully if there is a vote people will accept the democratic decision even if they don't agree with it. Many have said there's no easy answer but maybe it's just a case of making the best of it. Unprecedented times and to be honest I couldn't care less about football with so many family, friends and friends family in frontline jobs. We need to put this in perspective.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by spen666 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:42 pm

don'tbuythesun wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:52 pm
Hopefully if there is a vote people will accept the democratic decision even if they don't agree with it. Many have said there's no easy answer but maybe it's just a case of making the best of it. Unprecedented times and to be honest I couldn't care less about football with so many family, friends and friends family in frontline jobs. We need to put this in perspective.
I couldn't agree more with all you said

Sadly, I don't think some clubs will accept the outcome and will be only thinking about what suits their circumstances best

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Mister e » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:48 pm

I agree the league's are probably done and dusted - I wonder if the fa will allow the conclusion of the the fa vase and fa trophy though seeing as both competitions were at the semi final stage

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by tdk1 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:42 am

Mister e wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:48 pm
I agree the league's are probably done and dusted - I wonder if the fa will allow the conclusion of the the fa vase and fa trophy though seeing as both competitions were at the semi final stage
If they do, you'd imagine they'll need to get rid of the two-legged semis

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:58 am

tdk1 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:42 am
Mister e wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:48 pm
I agree the league's are probably done and dusted - I wonder if the fa will allow the conclusion of the the fa vase and fa trophy though seeing as both competitions were at the semi final stage
If they do, you'd imagine they'll need to get rid of the two-legged semis
I also very much doubt they'd be played at Wembley, which would be a shame for the teams involved.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Old Git » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:08 am

Just wondering what would happen if a decision was made to relegate Stevenage to NL and promote the top 2 from there into the EFL to replace them and Bury. Don’t see a problem with Barrow but what about Harrogate and their artificial pitch?
Presumably they would be denied promotion if they failed to replace it with grass.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:10 am

I'm sure if Harrogate got the chance to be promoted to the FL, they'd replace their artificial pitch with a grass one.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:14 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:10 am
I'm sure if Harrogate got the chance to be promoted to the FL, they'd replace their artificial pitch with a grass one.
I believe that is the plan.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:48 am

Old Git wrote:Just wondering what would happen if a decision was made to relegate Stevenage to NL and promote the top 2 from there into the EFL to replace them and Bury. Don’t see a problem with Barrow but what about Harrogate and their artificial pitch?
Presumably they would be denied promotion if they failed to replace it with grass.
I think that’s unlikely to happen anyway.

Trouble is you’d wind up with 25 League Two clubs and 23 National League clubs, plus 23 League One clubs.

You could promote one League Two club to reduce the imbalance in the EFL, but who?

Crewe are top on goal difference, but Swindon have a game in hand. So it’d get messy there as well. You could have promotion and relegation as planned in the EFL, but they seem committed to completing the season.

And sides in the National League are unlikely to accept Barrow and Harrogate being promoted if they believe they could have caught them.

And why should Barrow and Harrogate get promoted when South Shields etc have had their seasons expunged?

FWIW, I’m not saying I agree or disagree with that idea, just pointing out the counter arguments.

As we all know there’s not a perfect solution, and clubs’ self interest means this won’t end without arguments, in one way or another.
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Mister e » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:34 pm

It still resonates in the town of barrow with the way that they lost football league status. I'm sure that was only their second application for re-election in 1972. They did not finish bottom of the league that was Newport county if memory serves me right. The team that replaced them on a second vote after the first one was tied Hereford United did not win their league either finishing runner up to wealdstone. Seeing as barrow were a former football league member and the league are now one member short I wonder if barrow could reclaim their place by the unusual way by being invited back. Typical mind that the club that replaced us in 2010 Stevenage look like they are going to get a stay of execution by default.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:27 pm

Mister e wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:34 pm
It still resonates in the town of barrow with the way that they lost football league status. I'm sure that was only their second application for re-election in 1972. They did not finish bottom of the league that was Newport county if memory serves me right. The team that replaced them on a second vote after the first one was tied Hereford United did not win their league either finishing runner up to wealdstone. Seeing as barrow were a former football league member and the league are now one member short I wonder if barrow could reclaim their place by the unusual way by being invited back. Typical mind that the club that replaced us in 2010 Stevenage look like they are going to get a stay of execution by default.
I had a soft spot for Barrow ever since they were so cruelly kicked out of the league. Since that banner in 2012 I have hoped they make it back.
It will be a travesty if they don't get either promoted or invited back. Either way I don't care, though I think their fans would love to see the job finished properly.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by JE93 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am

Getting a chance to read through the detail of the NL proposal it's plain NL chairmen want to know what the basis of ending the season is before voting. But I guess the NL are fearful that if an unpopular option on how to end the season wins by a small.majority, that when a black or white vote occurs to choose to either end the season in that manner or keep the indefinite postponement. Teams will vote for postponement and leave the NL in Limbo.

Interesting voting mechanism aswell. National league clubs have a vote per club where as the National League North and South has 4 votes per league, for an overall total of 32 votes. Means NLN and NLS combined make up about 2/3 of the clubs in the league but only have 1/4 of the voting power.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by jjljks » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:35 am

Does seem a peculiar voting mechanism, by no stretch of the imagination could it be called democratic. Football authorities seem to specialise in over complicated votes then are surprised when it results in an impasse like in Scotland. Amazingly, by not casting a vote, Dundee now have found themselves in a position to decide the outcome and hold up the whole process!

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by H1987 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:52 pm

Honestly, I think the powers that be need to get a grip and make a decision themselves. Clubs are ultimately going to vote in their own self-interest. Someone without a vested interest needs to make the decision, there is no way there will be a unanimous decision made by clubs, and this isn't a democracy, but we could end up with a tyranny of a majority, inflicting things like relegation on clubs.

If that is the decision, someone neutral should make the call, not the clubs.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:58 pm

JE93 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am
Getting a chance to read through the detail of the NL proposal it's plain NL chairmen want to know what the basis of ending the season is before voting. But I guess the NL are fearful that if an unpopular option on how to end the season wins by a small.majority, that when a black or white vote occurs to choose to either end the season in that manner or keep the indefinite postponement. Teams will vote for postponement and leave the NL in Limbo.

Interesting voting mechanism aswell. National league clubs have a vote per club where as the National League North and South has 4 votes per league, for an overall total of 32 votes. Means NLN and NLS combined make up about 2/3 of the clubs in the league but only have 1/4 of the voting power.
Don't know if it is still the case but back in the days or re-election the vote was split so that all 1st and 2nd div' clubs had a vote each and the 3rd and 4th had 2 each per division.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by dfcdfcdfc » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:30 am

It isn't because we no longer do re-elections!

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:25 am

Is this a competition?

Is the reason the National League clubs get a more powerful vote than the North and South clubs because of the fact that the number of North and South clubs added together exceeds that of the National League?

i.e. North and South added together could outvote them/the tail wagging the dog.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by EDJOHNS » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:25 am

dfcdfcdfc wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:30 am
It isn't because we no longer do re-elections!
They do however still hold voites on other topics. If you re-read you will note I said "Back in the days of" not specifically about re-election

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by dfcdfcdfc » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:23 am

You also started with "Don't know if it's still the case.."

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by onewayup » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:26 am

What a balls up the national league have made of this,
Only certain clubs are supposedly given a vote clubs in the national league, not national north or south i read
If it's right how can a few clubs decide the fate of the majority, the league management needs to give their heads a shake take responsibility and cancel the 19,/20 season now.stop pussy footing about and get it done .
Give their decision and let the teams sort out for next season. It's forced upon everyone with the current state of this VIRUS and rising death toll ,everything else pales into insignificance where death is concerned, most level headed people would realise this and except the season has a lesser priority and would except the decision and facts which brought it about. Let's move on to 20/21with confidence knowing that we the people of the world have beaten the horrendous VIRUS thrust upon us.
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:42 am

EDJOHNS wrote:
JE93 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am
Getting a chance to read through the detail of the NL proposal it's plain NL chairmen want to know what the basis of ending the season is before voting. But I guess the NL are fearful that if an unpopular option on how to end the season wins by a small.majority, that when a black or white vote occurs to choose to either end the season in that manner or keep the indefinite postponement. Teams will vote for postponement and leave the NL in Limbo.

Interesting voting mechanism aswell. National league clubs have a vote per club where as the National League North and South has 4 votes per league, for an overall total of 32 votes. Means NLN and NLS combined make up about 2/3 of the clubs in the league but only have 1/4 of the voting power.
Don't know if it is still the case but back in the days or re-election the vote was split so that all 1st and 2nd div' clubs had a vote each and the 3rd and 4th had 2 each per division.
You can see the result of all the votes on Wikipedia. We only got in by 1 or two votes in the early 70s. I think the maximum was 52 votes so not sure how that fits in with your allocation.


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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:04 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:42 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
JE93 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am
Getting a chance to read through the detail of the NL proposal it's plain NL chairmen want to know what the basis of ending the season is before voting. But I guess the NL are fearful that if an unpopular option on how to end the season wins by a small.majority, that when a black or white vote occurs to choose to either end the season in that manner or keep the indefinite postponement. Teams will vote for postponement and leave the NL in Limbo.

Interesting voting mechanism aswell. National league clubs have a vote per club where as the National League North and South has 4 votes per league, for an overall total of 32 votes. Means NLN and NLS combined make up about 2/3 of the clubs in the league but only have 1/4 of the voting power.
Don't know if it is still the case but back in the days or re-election the vote was split so that all 1st and 2nd div' clubs had a vote each and the 3rd and 4th had 2 each per division.
You can see the result of all the votes on Wikipedia. We only got in by 1 or two votes in the early 70s. I think the maximum was 52 votes so not sure how that fits in with your allocation.


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You THINK, but don't know, yet suggest I am wrong with only a guess to back your thought up !!!!
1 thing I am 100% sure of is that there were regular arguments about the fact div 3 and 4 were only associate members of the FL and not full members and that was always used as the reason both leagues had only a few votes between them. The top 2 leagues always said that the "lower" clubs should not have the ability to stop the top sides "progress" While the lower sides argued that re-election amongst other things had little to do with the bigger clubs.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:27 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:04 am
Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:42 am
EDJOHNS wrote:
JE93 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 am
Getting a chance to read through the detail of the NL proposal it's plain NL chairmen want to know what the basis of ending the season is before voting. But I guess the NL are fearful that if an unpopular option on how to end the season wins by a small.majority, that when a black or white vote occurs to choose to either end the season in that manner or keep the indefinite postponement. Teams will vote for postponement and leave the NL in Limbo.

Interesting voting mechanism aswell. National league clubs have a vote per club where as the National League North and South has 4 votes per league, for an overall total of 32 votes. Means NLN and NLS combined make up about 2/3 of the clubs in the league but only have 1/4 of the voting power.
Don't know if it is still the case but back in the days or re-election the vote was split so that all 1st and 2nd div' clubs had a vote each and the 3rd and 4th had 2 each per division.
You can see the result of all the votes on Wikipedia. We only got in by 1 or two votes in the early 70s. I think the maximum was 52 votes so not sure how that fits in with your allocation.


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You THINK, but don't know, yet suggest I am wrong with only a guess to back your thought up !!!!
1 thing I am 100% sure of is that there were regular arguments about the fact div 3 and 4 were only associate members of the FL and not full members and that was always used as the reason both leagues had only a few votes between them. The top 2 leagues always said that the "lower" clubs should not have the ability to stop the top sides "progress" While the lower sides argued that re-election amongst other things had little to do with the bigger clubs.
What I meant was I have seen 52 votes cast on several occasions but never more. Your maths adds up to 48 (44 + 2 + 2). No need to be so defensive. It was merely an observation.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Old Git » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:59 pm

Think back in the day the old 1st and 2nd Division had 22 teams each and the 3rd and 4th Divisions had 24 teams each. Think the votes were allocated one to each team in the top two divisions and 8 in total between the other two divisions making 52 in total.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:30 pm

Old Git wrote:Think back in the day the old 1st and 2nd Division had 22 teams each and the 3rd and 4th Divisions had 24 teams each. Think the votes were allocated one to each team in the top two divisions and 8 in total between the other two divisions making 52 in total.
So not what Ed said then Image


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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm

Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by don'tbuythesun » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:31 am

Not sure how far back in the day we're going but fascinating to see Aston Villa, Manchester City, West Brom all in the mix for re-election with Stoke being voted out in 1890! Imagine how different things might have been if these had gone ahead. Our friends in blue and white stripes top the table. Strangely I can't seem to find anything definitive about the voting system but my Southport based in-laws were devastated when they were kicked out. I suppose the system today is much fairer and gives opportunity. Oh the joys of lockdown.

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