National League advises ending the season

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JE93
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by JE93 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 am

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm
Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

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I think they have confirmed the champions in each league will be promoted. And interestingly the bottom clubs will be relegated. Partick Thistle in the Scottish Championship are furious. They were bottom of the league but had a game in hand. Should they have won the game they'd be outside the relegation zone. Made even more crazy by the fact Dundee voted against the ruling in the first place. Then emailed to say disregard the vote and then have sat on their hands for a week knowing they could be the king makers.

No decision yet in the SPL to decide how their league will finish or champions / relegations. But funnily enough Anne Budge the chairwoman of Hearts who are currently bottom, has been tasked with looking at a league restructure including potentially expanding the SPL. 'Turkeys won't vote for Christmas' comes to mind.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by spen666 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:48 am

JE93 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 am
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm
Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I think they have confirmed the champions in each league will be promoted. And interestingly the bottom clubs will be relegated. Partick Thistle in the Scottish Championship are furious. They were bottom of the league but had a game in hand. Should they have won the game they'd be outside the relegation zone. Made even more crazy by the fact Dundee voted against the ruling in the first place. Then emailed to say disregard the vote and then have sat on their hands for a week knowing they could be the king makers.

No decision yet in the SPL to decide how their league will finish or champions / relegations. But funnily enough Anne Budge the chairwoman of Hearts who are currently bottom, has been tasked with looking at a league restructure including potentially expanding the SPL. 'Turkeys won't vote for Christmas' comes to mind.

Wow Partick Thistle to be playing in the 3rd tier of Scottish Football! They are in my mind a solid Scottish Premiership side. A big fall from grace. A bit like Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc in English Football in recent years

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Quaker85
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Quaker85 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:00 am

spen666 wrote:
JE93 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 am
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm
Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I think they have confirmed the champions in each league will be promoted. And interestingly the bottom clubs will be relegated. Partick Thistle in the Scottish Championship are furious. They were bottom of the league but had a game in hand. Should they have won the game they'd be outside the relegation zone. Made even more crazy by the fact Dundee voted against the ruling in the first place. Then emailed to say disregard the vote and then have sat on their hands for a week knowing they could be the king makers.

No decision yet in the SPL to decide how their league will finish or champions / relegations. But funnily enough Anne Budge the chairwoman of Hearts who are currently bottom, has been tasked with looking at a league restructure including potentially expanding the SPL. 'Turkeys won't vote for Christmas' comes to mind.

Wow Partick Thistle to be playing in the 3rd tier of Scottish Football! They are in my mind a solid Scottish Premiership side. A big fall from grace. A bit like Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc in English Football in recent years
Spen, Patrick Thistle haven’t been a solid premiership side since the late 70s


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spen666
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by spen666 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:52 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:00 am
spen666 wrote:
JE93 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 am
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm
Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I think they have confirmed the champions in each league will be promoted. And interestingly the bottom clubs will be relegated. Partick Thistle in the Scottish Championship are furious. They were bottom of the league but had a game in hand. Should they have won the game they'd be outside the relegation zone. Made even more crazy by the fact Dundee voted against the ruling in the first place. Then emailed to say disregard the vote and then have sat on their hands for a week knowing they could be the king makers.

No decision yet in the SPL to decide how their league will finish or champions / relegations. But funnily enough Anne Budge the chairwoman of Hearts who are currently bottom, has been tasked with looking at a league restructure including potentially expanding the SPL. 'Turkeys won't vote for Christmas' comes to mind.

Wow Partick Thistle to be playing in the 3rd tier of Scottish Football! They are in my mind a solid Scottish Premiership side. A big fall from grace. A bit like Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc in English Football in recent years
Spen, Patrick Thistle haven’t been a solid premiership side since the late 70s


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Next you will be telling me that Alan Hansen no longer plays for them

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by eek » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:06 am

spen666 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:52 am
Quaker85 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:00 am
spen666 wrote:
JE93 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 am
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm
Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I think they have confirmed the champions in each league will be promoted. And interestingly the bottom clubs will be relegated. Partick Thistle in the Scottish Championship are furious. They were bottom of the league but had a game in hand. Should they have won the game they'd be outside the relegation zone. Made even more crazy by the fact Dundee voted against the ruling in the first place. Then emailed to say disregard the vote and then have sat on their hands for a week knowing they could be the king makers.

No decision yet in the SPL to decide how their league will finish or champions / relegations. But funnily enough Anne Budge the chairwoman of Hearts who are currently bottom, has been tasked with looking at a league restructure including potentially expanding the SPL. 'Turkeys won't vote for Christmas' comes to mind.

Wow Partick Thistle to be playing in the 3rd tier of Scottish Football! They are in my mind a solid Scottish Premiership side. A big fall from grace. A bit like Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc in English Football in recent years
Spen, Patrick Thistle haven’t been a solid premiership side since the late 70s


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Next you will be telling me that Alan Hansen no longer plays for them
Are you sure? He's probably as good as their current team.

50 years
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by 50 years » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:10 am

That is a pity about Partick thistle, went to see them play Ross County a while back after a night out with friends from Inverness. Partick had a nice "proper" ground, good club bar and great set of friendly fans, plus a shortish walk into Glasgow city centre for a few beers after. I would certainly go and watch them again at home.
Seems unfair to finish season like that and don't think I would like to see champions picked in our league that way with so many games still left, although I would not take a bet on the decision being the top 2 from our league go up?

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National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:40 am

50 years wrote:That is a pity about Partick thistle, went to see them play Ross County a while back after a night out with friends from Inverness. Partick had a nice "proper" ground, good club bar and great set of friendly fans, plus a shortish walk into Glasgow city centre for a few beers after. I would certainly go and watch them again at home.
Seems unfair to finish season like that and don't think I would like to see champions picked in our league that way with so many games still left, although I would not take a bet on the decision being the top 2 from our league go up?
Unfair? If the season hadn’t finished, many lower league Scottish clubs would have gone bust.

If you want a lack of fairness, the likes of Annan, Albion Rovers etc going out of business, purely so Partick can have a chance at avoiding relegation, when they’ve been poor all season anyway, is way worse.

I’ll repeat, there is no good way out of this situation. Every solution has its winners and losers. Clubs just have to get on with it because squabbling about where they finish in a league table lacks perspective when hundreds are dying each day.
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by 50 years » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:08 am

Totally agree Gramps. "Unfair" may not have been the best choice of a word in this case.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:57 am

The result of the vote should be known today. Expectation is the season will be ended, and then we move on to voting on how the season gets ended.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by JasonDeVos » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:22 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:11 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52381612

Clubs have voted to end the season
Makes sense to me. Maybe more accepting as Darlo are not in mix right at the top.

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Quaker85
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Quaker85 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:49 pm

So York are arguing that they should be promoted on the basis they have endeavoured to play more games than Kings Lynn?


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Old Git
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Old Git » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 pm

Experts now saying social distancing likely to stay in place for many months. That could mean no football for the foreseeable future even could mean next season just doesn’t happen.

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:30 pm

Old Git wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 pm
Experts now saying social distancing likely to stay in place for many months. That could mean no football for the foreseeable future even could mean next season just doesn’t happen.
I saw this and it makes me wonder if the smaller leagues (Non league) may have a better chance of restarting than the bigger leagues, just because of the smaller numbers of people involved.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by loan_star » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:35 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:30 pm
Old Git wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 pm
Experts now saying social distancing likely to stay in place for many months. That could mean no football for the foreseeable future even could mean next season just doesn’t happen.
I saw this and it makes me wonder if the smaller leagues (Non league) may have a better chance of restarting than the bigger leagues, just because of the smaller numbers of people involved.
Some lower non league clubs get better gates than some clubs higher up the pyramid so i wouldn't think that would be workable. And where do you draw the line? 250? 500? 1000?

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by jjljks » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:01 pm

Given the average attendances in NLN & an estimated pitch size of 100m by 76m, with 10m of terracing (no seats), using the 2m social distancing, by my back of envelope calculations 6 clubs would not be able to fit in normal crowds. Reckon 1400 is the limit.
On the pitch, it would be even harder to meet the 2m rule, for instance a defensive wall against a free kick. Mind, there were a few times in 2019/20 when it looked like our defence were already observing a 2m gap to the opposing forwards they were marking. At least it will stop shirt pulling unless players have 2m arms like an orangutan.
TBH am not convinced it is workable, but in soccer anything is possible, so keep the faith

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by joejaques » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:09 pm

jjljks wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:01 pm
Given the average attendances in NLN & an estimated pitch size of 100m by 76m, with 10m of terracing (no seats), using the 2m social distancing, by my back of envelope calculations 6 clubs would not be able to fit in normal crowds. Reckon 1400 is the limit.
On the pitch, it would be even harder to meet the 2m rule, for instance a defensive wall against a free kick. Mind, there were a few times in 2019/20 when it looked like our defence were already observing a 2m gap to the opposing forwards they were marking. At least it will stop shirt pulling unless players have 2m arms like an orangutan.
TBH am not convinced it is workable, but in soccer anything is possible, so keep the faith
Go Go Gadget Arms :D :roll:
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:54 pm

loan_star wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:30 pm
Old Git wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 pm
Experts now saying social distancing likely to stay in place for many months. That could mean no football for the foreseeable future even could mean next season just doesn’t happen.
I saw this and it makes me wonder if the smaller leagues (Non league) may have a better chance of restarting than the bigger leagues, just because of the smaller numbers of people involved.
Some lower non league clubs get better gates than some clubs higher up the pyramid so i wouldn't think that would be workable. And where do you draw the line? 250? 500? 1000?
If anything, it’ll be harder for non-league clubs.

Premier League and Championship can sustain on their existing broadcasting deals, and indeed we know TV companies will pay up for behind closed door matches at that level.

National League clubs tend to be heavily reliant on income from attendances, so playing behind closed doors would be more destructive.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by al_quaker » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:13 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:54 pm

National League clubs tend to be heavily reliant on income from attendances, so playing behind closed doors would be more destructive.
Indeed. The Mail on Sunday's Ollie Holt is reporting the National League won't be returning until January https://twitter.com/OllieHolt22/status/ ... 05440?s=20

Whether that's true or not, it does make sense. Playing behind closed doors wouldn't really work at this level without the TV money to subsidise things, so we have to wait until large gatherings are allowed again by the government, which sounds understandably a long way off.

Who knows what state lower league and non league football will be in by the time we next see a game of football

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by jjljks » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:01 am

joejaques wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:09 pm
jjljks wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:01 pm
Given the average attendances in NLN & an estimated pitch size of 100m by 76m, with 10m of terracing (no seats), using the 2m social distancing, by my back of envelope calculations 6 clubs would not be able to fit in normal crowds. Reckon 1400 is the limit.
On the pitch, it would be even harder to meet the 2m rule, for instance a defensive wall against a free kick. Mind, there were a few times in 2019/20 when it looked like our defence were already observing a 2m gap to the opposing forwards they were marking. At least it will stop shirt pulling unless players have 2m arms like an orangutan.
TBH am not convinced it is workable, but in soccer anything is possible, so keep the faith
Go Go Gadget Arms :D :roll:
Thanks Inspector! 🙌
The orangutans would probably not do well at Poolie😅 🍻

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:25 am

jjljks wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:01 am
joejaques wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:09 pm
jjljks wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:01 pm
Given the average attendances in NLN & an estimated pitch size of 100m by 76m, with 10m of terracing (no seats), using the 2m social distancing, by my back of envelope calculations 6 clubs would not be able to fit in normal crowds. Reckon 1400 is the limit.
On the pitch, it would be even harder to meet the 2m rule, for instance a defensive wall against a free kick. Mind, there were a few times in 2019/20 when it looked like our defence were already observing a 2m gap to the opposing forwards they were marking. At least it will stop shirt pulling unless players have 2m arms like an orangutan.
TBH am not convinced it is workable, but in soccer anything is possible, so keep the faith
Go Go Gadget Arms :D :roll:
Thanks Inspector! 🙌
The orangutans would probably not do well at Poolie😅 🍻
There is a half hour programme on Iplayer about racism in football, I watched it last night and HUFC get quite a mention - it's not a good look.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

bigdavethemaddog
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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by bigdavethemaddog » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:22 pm

spen666 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:48 am
JE93 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:57 am
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 pm
Scottish Championship, league 1 league 2 have stopped.. The leaders at the time have been crowned champions not sure about going up..

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I think they have confirmed the champions in each league will be promoted. And interestingly the bottom clubs will be relegated. Partick Thistle in the Scottish Championship are furious. They were bottom of the league but had a game in hand. Should they have won the game they'd be outside the relegation zone. Made even more crazy by the fact Dundee voted against the ruling in the first place. Then emailed to say disregard the vote and then have sat on their hands for a week knowing they could be the king makers.

No decision yet in the SPL to decide how their league will finish or champions / relegations. But funnily enough Anne Budge the chairwoman of Hearts who are currently bottom, has been tasked with looking at a league restructure including potentially expanding the SPL. 'Turkeys won't vote for Christmas' comes to mind.

Wow Partick Thistle to be playing in the 3rd tier of Scottish Football! They are in my mind a solid Scottish Premiership side. A big fall from grace. A bit like Leeds, Forest, Southampton etc in English Football in recent years
Partick have yo-yoed between the SPL, champ and L1 for the last 10-15 years. i certainly remember them been in the 3rd tier in certainly the last ten years

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by biccynana » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:10 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:44 pm
The National League is going to hold a vote on whether to hold any more fixtures this season. The league themselves are advising clubs to vote in favour (I.E. we wouldn’t play again in the 19/20 season).

Should that vote be passed, there’ll then be a follow-up on vote on several options for how the season should end (e.g. null and void it entirely, lock-in current positions, proceeding with promotion and relegation).

For clarity, the actual options in a potential second vote haven’t been revealed.

Things are about to get a bit messy I think, but from the looks of it, I’d be surprised if we play again in the 19/20 season.
I don't know if this has been mooted anywhere in the pyramid, and I don't know if it'd work, but is there any mileage in promoting/relegating any teams that were mathematical certainties for such a fate? The obvious drawback is that some divisions would end up with an odd number of teams, but that could be ironed out after just one season by adjusting the numbers promoted/relegated at the end of that season. Any other drawbacks, or any pros for that matter?

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Re: National League advises ending the season

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:23 pm

I think there’s only a handful of mathematical certainties throughout the league system. From memory Jersey Bulls and Vauxhall Motors were the only sides mathematically guaranteed promotion. And their seasons have already been expunged.

So the big issue after that is where you draw the line. Liverpool for instance could still technically be caught by Man City. Our own Mikkyx ran an excellent simulation which had Bradford PA avoiding relegation. Freakish things have happened in football and it’s why we love the game.

They’d certainly never relegate a club based on hypotheticals. You can’t cause a club to suffer doubly, first with the ongoing situation, and then through decreased financial revenues as a consequence of relegation.

If it keeps dragging on, with the contractual and financial complications it has, I could see the Netherlands model being followed. Declaring the season as it is, but with no relegation or promotion.

You could in theory in the Premier League declare Liverpool the champions as they’re so far ahead (Man City could complain but would do massive reputational damage through looking so petty).

It’d be hard on someone like Leeds or York, for example, but before the outrage brigade descend, we all know there isn’t a good solution. Whatever is decided will have winners and losers.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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