Raj Singh

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MCFCDarlo3
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pm
Has anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?

Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).

Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.

The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.

Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!

No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.

It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592

Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
Did I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:21 pm

MCFCDarlo3 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pm
Has anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?

Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).

Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.

The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.

Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!

No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.

It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592

Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
Did I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?
No - you haven't. Although I am unsure if the outstanding loan to Sage Investments does accrue interest. Even worse for them if it does.

In a nutshell, HUFC Ltd owes Sage Investments Ltd £1.7m. HUFC Ltd pay around £330k off this debt per year as a bog-standard National League club, however the amount that they pay could increase from this £330k figure depending on performance related conditions. I have no idea what these are, but it could be related to a cup-run or being promoted to the FL.

This £330k would be deducted from the £1.7m they owe in the final year-end accounts. But this would be dependent on interest charges.

Effectively, if Hartlepool perform well then they have to pay off the loan quicker than the standard rate of £330k per year. Sage investments get a slice of any future success they may have.

That's as far as I understand it anyway. I'm no accountant! But on the face of it they have two huge weights around their neck, the debt to Clarence 18 Ltd and the debt to Sage Investments Ltd, which totals £3.2m.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:25 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:21 pm
MCFCDarlo3 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pm
Has anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?

Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).

Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.

The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.

Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!

No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.

It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592

Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
Did I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?
No - you haven't. Although I am unsure if the outstanding loan to Sage Investments does accrue interest. Even worse for them if it does.

In a nutshell, HUFC Ltd owes Sage Investments Ltd £1.7m. HUFC Ltd pay around £330k off this debt per year as a bog-standard National League club, however the amount that they pay could increase from this £330k figure depending on performance related conditions. I have no idea what these are, but it could be related to a cup-run or being promoted to the FL.

This £330k would be deducted from the £1.7m they owe in the final year-end accounts. But this would be dependent on interest charges.

Effectively, if Hartlepool perform well then they have to pay off the loan quicker than the standard rate of £330k per year. Sage investments get a slice of any future success they may have.

That's as far as I understand it anyway. I'm no accountant! But on the face of it they have two huge weights around their neck, the debt to Clarence 18 Ltd and the debt to Sage Investments Ltd, which totals £3.2m.
Thanks for clarifying, not looking good.

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Spyman
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Spyman » Sat May 02, 2020 9:45 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
MCFCDarlo3 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pm
Has anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?

Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).

Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.

The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.

Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!

No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.

It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592

Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
Did I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?
No - you haven't. Although I am unsure if the outstanding loan to Sage Investments does accrue interest. Even worse for them if it does.

In a nutshell, HUFC Ltd owes Sage Investments Ltd £1.7m. HUFC Ltd pay around £330k off this debt per year as a bog-standard National League club, however the amount that they pay could increase from this £330k figure depending on performance related conditions. I have no idea what these are, but it could be related to a cup-run or being promoted to the FL.

This £330k would be deducted from the £1.7m they owe in the final year-end accounts. But this would be dependent on interest charges.

Effectively, if Hartlepool perform well then they have to pay off the loan quicker than the standard rate of £330k per year. Sage investments get a slice of any future success they may have.

That's as far as I understand it anyway. I'm no accountant! But on the face of it they have two huge weights around their neck, the debt to Clarence 18 Ltd and the debt to Sage Investments Ltd, which totals £3.2m.
It goes without saying they'll be accruing a high rate of interest on that loan.

Equity firms don't just lend money for free. Why on earth would they Image

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pm

I can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.

Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.

The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.

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loan_star
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by loan_star » Sun May 03, 2020 8:28 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pm
I can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.

Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.

The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
The only way they would have got any money back would be any possible player sales, fixtures within the ground and scrap value for all the metal in the stands. The fans would have been left with a field but very little infrastructure.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by eek » Sun May 03, 2020 9:00 am

loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:28 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pm
I can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.

Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.

The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
The only way they would have got any money back would be any possible player sales, fixtures within the ground and scrap value for all the metal in the stands. The fans would have been left with a field but very little infrastructure.
Fixtures and fittings within the ground may be owned by the council. The value of the club would only be possible player sales and that was only ever going to be a few 0,000s here and there it would never be millions.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 am

eek wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:00 am
loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:28 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pm
I can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.

Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.

The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
The only way they would have got any money back would be any possible player sales, fixtures within the ground and scrap value for all the metal in the stands. The fans would have been left with a field but very little infrastructure.
Fixtures and fittings within the ground may be owned by the council. The value of the club would only be possible player sales and that was only ever going to be a few 0,000s here and there it would never be millions.
In the event Hartlepool went in to administration, you could bet that they would have had a number of other creditors too. It wouldn’t have been to the extent of the money Sage were owed, but it would have diluted any return of the loan to Sage further. Yes Sage would have been a preferential & largest creditor, but others would get an amount too.

Like Divas said, I bet Sage thought Christmas had come early when Raj walked through the door.

There aren’t that many businessmen/women that would take over a failing business with outstanding litigation. He has already gone on record very recently to say he has put £2.1-£2.2 million in.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by loan_star » Sun May 03, 2020 10:04 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 am
There aren’t that many businessmen/women that would take over a failing business with outstanding litigation. He has already gone on record very recently to say he has put £2.1-£2.2 million in.
Loaned them of course.
Thats one thing both Quaker Pete and I pointed out to them on the bunker when Singh was sniffing around, make sure he's not loaning the club money. Lo and behold, its all loans again.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by norwich darlo » Sun May 03, 2020 10:23 am

don'tbuythesun wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:59 pm
Early days but I wonder who has that golden share grasped firmly in their hand?
It.s on a chain around his neck!

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loan_star
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by loan_star » Sun May 03, 2020 10:27 am

eek wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:00 am

Fixtures and fittings within the ground may be owned by the council. The value of the club would only be possible player sales and that was only ever going to be a few 0,000s here and there it would never be millions.
No the council only own the land, the club own everything on it. This became clear when they nearly went under as it was one option Sage had to get their money back.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun May 03, 2020 10:36 am

loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:04 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 am
There aren’t that many businessmen/women that would take over a failing business with outstanding litigation. He has already gone on record very recently to say he has put £2.1-£2.2 million in.
Loaned them of course.
Thats one thing both Quaker Pete and I pointed out to them on the bunker when Singh was sniffing around, make sure he's not loaning the club money. Lo and behold, its all loans again.
Absolutely.

I saw a comment from one member recently, who said something along the lines of “don’t forget the huge millstone around our neck of the loan owed to Sage”.

They seem to be forgetting about the largest one, which is the money owed to the company currently propping them up. History shows that this money isn’t written off.

It makes you wonder if any of the fans or Loughlin have read any of the administrator reports from 2012. All are free and easy to view on Companies House. Loughlin in particular loves rolling over and getting his belly tickled.
Last edited by Darlofan97 on Sun May 03, 2020 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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loan_star
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by loan_star » Sun May 03, 2020 10:55 am

Loughlin had his tongue up the backside of Coxall too, he's too blinkered to see anything bad about Pools.
Last edited by loan_star on Sun May 03, 2020 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by GrassrootsMatt » Sun May 03, 2020 10:56 am

loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:55 am
Loughlin had his tongue up the backside of Coxall too, he's to blinkered to see anything bad about Pools.
Proper rim licker is Loughlin
Come on Darlo!

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by onewayup » Sun May 03, 2020 12:21 pm

It wouldn't surprise me for hartlepool not to be there for the new season start, every week it's costing him big time bucks.the plug is slowly rising.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by JasonDeVos » Sun May 03, 2020 12:28 pm

GrassrootsMatt wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:56 am
loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:55 am
Loughlin had his tongue up the backside of Coxall too, he's to blinkered to see anything bad about Pools.
Proper rim licker is Loughlin
Now the Teesside Edition editor!

Still no mention of Singh’s comments making the echo???)

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sun May 03, 2020 1:13 pm

JasonDeVos wrote:
GrassrootsMatt wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:56 am
loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:55 am
Loughlin had his tongue up the backside of Coxall too, he's to blinkered to see anything bad about Pools.
Proper rim licker is Loughlin
Now the Teesside Edition editor!

Still no mention of Singh’s comments making the echo???)
He is good at his job that's how he got a promotion obviouslyImage Not that he licks arrrrras

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eek
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by eek » Sun May 03, 2020 3:36 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 10:27 am
eek wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:00 am

Fixtures and fittings within the ground may be owned by the council. The value of the club would only be possible player sales and that was only ever going to be a few 0,000s here and there it would never be millions.
No the council only own the land, the club own everything on it. This became clear when they nearly went under as it was one option Sage had to get their money back.
Ouch, in which case the club is going to be screwed when reality dawns...

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by lo36789 » Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am

I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by eek » Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am

lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.

And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by spen666 » Mon May 04, 2020 11:06 am

eek wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am
lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.

And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.

It may need the landlords consent to erect or demolish a structure on the site. It would depend on the terms of the lease.

Such consent is separate from planning permission ( although in their case consent or planning permission would be from the Council) and I think you are right that planning permission is not needed to demolish a property.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon May 04, 2020 6:51 pm

Spen, you must let us know when you've set up the Spennymoor fans forum. I'm surprised you've not sorted it yet as you've had time during lockdown. I'm sure everyone here is eager to post their opinions on there.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by lo36789 » Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pm

eek wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am
lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.

And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
He might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Old Git » Mon May 04, 2020 8:38 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pm
eek wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am
lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.

And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
He might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...
Not so sure what he might do in a fit of pique remember the football share fiasco?

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon May 04, 2020 10:28 pm

Old Git wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:38 pm
Not so sure what he might do in a fit of pique remember the football share fiasco?
He might take a hostage? For no particular reason, just for a bit of one off fun....
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by eek » Tue May 05, 2020 1:50 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pm
eek wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am
lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.

And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
He might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...
As an administrator, if there is nothing to stop me doing so and the value of the raw materials generates a greater income than other options you have no choice but to do so.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by Darlofan97 » Tue May 05, 2020 2:21 pm

DJ got in spot on in his interview, without mentioning Hartlepool or Singh, or any other club for that matter.

Football clubs will always be secondary to a benefactor's main business.

Great if the main business is performing well; the football club is a millstone if it's not.

lo36789
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by lo36789 » Tue May 05, 2020 4:46 pm

eek wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 1:50 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pm
eek wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 am
lo36789 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 am
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.

I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.

And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
He might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...
As an administrator, if there is nothing to stop me doing so and the value of the raw materials generates a greater income than other options you have no choice but to do so.
That's the point the cost of dismantling an ageing ground will far greater than the saleable cost - basically he'd be worsening their debt as a result - he'd be struck off being allowed to be a company director as a result.

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Re: Raj Singh

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue May 05, 2020 5:05 pm

He could just keep hold of the stadium and charge them £100k a year to play there and then sell them the stadium for £1m if they could raise it, basically he can get some of his money back or they can go off and groundshare with Bishop.

As we know anything can happen.

eddie-rowles
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Re: Raj Singh

Post by eddie-rowles » Thu May 14, 2020 11:51 am

Poolies boost the budget up and running please support Raj and his empty care home beds ,sound familiar:


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Runners up prizes of signed shirt for 5 runners up, and signed team photo for 10 runners up.
Donate over £50 and benefit from an executive lounge experience for 2, access to the executive lounge on a selected match day with a visit from a member of the squad and post match de-brief from the manager.
Donate over £100 and benefit from a match day invitation to the Chairman's suite as well as a post match visit to the managers office for a drink and post match chat not only that but a chance to join the team for your own photo as you join them for the annual pre season photo shoot.

General chimp stranglers response on The Bunker: "This is a new low and shows the general public are thick as mince"

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