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Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:41 am
by wizardofos
al_quaker wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 am
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 7:15 am
If he's good enough for Spennymoor then he's good enough for us.
This is a classic case of a Manager favouring players that he has brought in over inherited personnel.
He's definitely better than one lightweight winger from Blyth (for example) and he's certainly not over the top due to age or fitness.
That's unless he's a bad influence in other ways. I would be astonished if that was the case.
Armstrong wanted to keep him.
Yes, I read the official announcement
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:56 am
by super_les_mcjannet
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 7:15 am
If he's good enough for Spennymoor then he's good enough for us.
This is a classic case of a Manager favouring players that he has brought in over inherited personnel.
He's definitely better than one lightweight winger from Blyth (for example) and he's certainly not over the top due to age or fitness.
That's unless he's a bad influence in other ways. I would be astonished if that was the case.
I would say it's a classic case of one of the top earners at the club from previous contracts, being offered something lower as his influence is not completely what it was and needs to fit into the budget we have.
Player who considered leaving previsouly thinks rather than continue where his influence has dropped off, it's worth a fresh change for him and quite possibly also a better financial deal elsewhere.
I wanted Thommo to stay but do I think he should be earning double some other players currently when budget is tight and could be even tighter, then I see it from both club and player and hard to see an issue on either side.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:04 am
by don'tbuythesun
What a great servant he's been to our club. Eight years of effort and determination. I'll particularly remember him hiding from that horrible hailstorm in the dugout at Flixton and his destruction of Burscough, a hat trick in a 7-0 win. Thanks and all the best Thommo, club legend.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:16 am
by LoidLucan
Perfectly summed up Les. There's no blame attached to the club for bringing in a realistic wage structure that applies to all and similarly you can't blame a player for rejecting that if he can get much more money elsewhere. And that is magnified when he is no longer an automatic starter if he stays even though, let's be honest, that was based on a drop-off in form over an extended period. It was clearly the right time for both parties to move on and wish each other well.
Tommo's behaved properly and hasn't whined on about the way it's turned out and the club has done nothing wrong in having a more realistic wage structure. No issues on either side for me.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:21 am
by Vodka_Vic
I see that Luke Trotman is not intending to return (on official website - update No.9) Thomson had a great partnership with him and I wonder if some of Thoomo's lack of penetration was due to Hedley not getting forward to support him as much. When Thommo said he was leaving, I wondered if Trotts had made an announcement too and that this was also a factor in him choosing to leave.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:26 am
by Darlofan97
The official website also says that Trotman remains under contract.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:27 am
by super_les_mcjannet
Vodka_Vic wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 8:21 am
I see that Luke Trotman is not intending to return (on official website - update No.9) Thomson had a great partnership with him and I wonder if some of Thoomo's lack of penetration was due to Hedley not getting forward to support him as much. When Thommo said he was leaving, I wondered if Trotts had made an announcement too and that this was also a factor in him choosing to leave.
If I am honest I doubt Thompson would massively care if Trotman was staying or not, I honestly can't see it even being in his mind, game time, money, refresh, change, doesn't want to fade out at Darlo, feels he has more to offer - would be what I expect he thought.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:59 am
by Darlofan97
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 7:15 am
If he's good enough for Spennymoor then he's good enough for us.
This is a classic case of a Manager favouring players that he has brought in over inherited personnel.
He's definitely better than one lightweight winger from Blyth (for example) and he's certainly not over the top due to age or fitness.
That's unless he's a bad influence in other ways. I would be astonished if that was the case.
I think if you were to see the stats of non-penalty goals/assists contribution over the last 4 seasons you would be very surprised what trend they were going.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:02 am
by onewayup
I also now think thomo will end up at either spendymoney or shields, good luck to him wherever it is he served us well.both club and player have done things correctly, no hard feelings or judgement from me.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:17 am
by wizardofos
There's an assumption here that it's about money. Where he ends up might give a clue to that being the case. Phrases like "he was on double the money of some other players" are meaningless. We will always have a player who is on double the salary of another player.
Personally I think the Manager wasn't a fan. There must be plenty of other players in the squad on a salary that would retain Thompson.
As for being on the downward slope - again we will see.
Who can forget him single handedly leading the line at Walsall less than 6 months ago and causing them all sorts of problems.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:25 am
by al_quaker
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:17 am
There's an assumption here that it's about money. Where he ends up might give a clue to that being the case. Phrases like "he was on double the money of some other players" are meaningless. We will always have a player who is on double the salary of another player.
Yes, but if the player who is on the big money is a squad player (which Thompson has been this season) then it raises the question of value for money.
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:17 am
Personally I think the Manager wasn't a fan.
It's not what Armstrong has said, and it would be unusual for a manager to offer a new contract to a player he wasn't a fan of.
I think Les has got it spot on
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:27 am
by wizardofos
By the way, if it was the Manager's decision not to keep him on terms which he would accept, then of course that's his priviledge and what he is there for.
Doesn't stop me being disappointed though.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:32 am
by poppyfield
South Shields
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:32 am
by HarrytheQuaker
wizardofos wrote:There's an assumption here that it's about money. Where he ends up might give a clue to that being the case. Phrases like "he was on double the money of some other players" are meaningless. We will always have a player who is on double the salary of another player.
Personally I think the Manager wasn't a fan. There must be plenty of other players in the squad on a salary that would retain Thompson.
As for being on the downward slope - again we will see.
Who can forget him single handedly leading the line at Walsall less than 6 months ago and causing them all sorts of problems.
Of course it's about money and I don't blame him one little bit.. We have to tighten the purse strings like many other clubs..
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Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:35 am
by LoidLucan
AA has previously been on the record as saying that Tommo is his type of player. Hence he offered him a new contract that fits in with the club's wage structure but Tommo has chosen to leave.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:39 am
by wizardofos
Tightening the purse strings? I'm interested to know how many clubs voluntarily topped up the players salaries over the 80% furlough.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:47 am
by Darlofan97
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:39 am
Tightening the purse strings? I'm interested to know how many clubs voluntarily topped up the players salaries over the 80% furlough.
It's common knowledge that the budget is no longer what it was 2 years ago when Thompson signed a new contract.
Thompson was offered a new contract in-line with the current wage structure and his impact on the pitch.
Or would you have preferred to chuck money at him. Just for the sake of keeping him on the bench? He's a great player no doubt, but the truth is last season he had a limited impact. The club offered him a new contract based on that - and the fact it appears he's now past his best.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:54 am
by Darlogramps
Armstrong came out and specifically identified Thompson as the kind of player he wanted to work with. From memory this was as soon as he joined. To say Armstrong wasn’t a fan is blatantly untrue.
Very few of us will know for definite, but the idea Thompson was offered reduced terms because of the club’s changed wage structure, and the fact he’s no longer a central figure to the side does fit and make sense.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:58 am
by My opinion
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:17 am
There's an assumption here that it's about money. Where he ends up might give a clue to that being the case. Phrases like "he was on double the money of some other players" are meaningless. We will always have a player who is on double the salary of another player.
Personally I think the Manager wasn't a fan. There must be plenty of other players in the squad on a salary that would retain Thompson.
As for being on the downward slope - again we will see.
Who can forget him single handedly leading the line at Walsall less than 6 months ago and causing them all sorts of problems.
While I share your disappointment in Thommo leaving. I think like has been said, AA has put a structure in place and Thommo has to fit into that structure.
The game against Walsall was probably his best last season. However, he didn't single Handedly do anything. It was a team performance.
I wish Thommo all the best for his future but he has chosen to move on. So we move on.
Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:59 am
by Darlogramps
For anyone who hasn’t seen, this is the key section from this morning’s update:
“We have exercised the options and offered new contracts to all the players that finished the season with us with the only exclusion being Chris Elliott, and we are busy collating the responses. Luke Trotman has indicated that travel is an issue, and he is not planning to return, although he remains under contract.
“As you will have also seen from the club website, striker Stephen Thompson has informed the club that he is leaving. We offered him new terms and a guaranteed testimonial in recognition of his great service, but he's decided that he wants to play elsewhere. He spoke to manager Alun Armstrong on Saturday morning and told him that he was moving to another club. Everyone at Darlington FC would like to wish him well for the future.”
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:11 am
by theoriginalfatcat
It was so obvious that Trotman was cheesed off, his Netcafe interview laid it all out about the travel issue.
It's a shame as the club seem to have a policy whereby they treat the players well, for example by letting Trotman go abroad and topping up the 80% to 100% etc.
It's good that they do this, and I hope that the word gets round amongst other players that DFC under our fan owned model is a good place to work.
As for Trotman, we now need to hopefully get some kind of fee for him if possible.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:34 am
by wizardofos
Darlogramps wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 9:59 am
For anyone who hasn’t seen, this is the key section from this morning’s update:
“We have exercised the options and offered new contracts to all the players that finished the season with us with the only exclusion being Chris Elliott, and we are busy collating the responses. Luke Trotman has indicated that travel is an issue, and he is not planning to return, although he remains under contract.
“As you will have also seen from the club website, striker Stephen Thompson has informed the club that he is leaving. We offered him new terms and a guaranteed testimonial in recognition of his great service, but he's decided that he wants to play elsewhere. He spoke to manager Alun Armstrong on Saturday morning and told him that he was moving to another club. Everyone at Darlington FC would like to wish him well for the future.”
Looks like I’m wrong. Still disappointed he’s off and I don’t think he’s over the top yet. Good luck to him.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:54 am
by Darlofan97
theoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:11 am
It was so obvious that Trotman was cheesed off, his Netcafe interview laid it all out about the travel issue.
It's a shame as the club seem to have a policy whereby they treat the players well, for example by letting Trotman go abroad and topping up the 80% to 100% etc.
It's good that they do this, and I hope that the word gets round amongst other players that DFC under our fan owned model is a good place to work.
As for Trotman, we now need to hopefully get some kind of fee for him if possible.
To be fair to Trotman, he was given a contract with us. This protects both the club & the player. In this case the contract did protect the player - nobody could predict such a bad injury.
In terms of the 80% to 100% - yes we have done the correct thing but ultimately you can't make this policy player specific. It had to be the full squad or none at all we were topping salaries up for.
I can understand it from Trotman's point of view, he is travelling a long way, circumstances have changed since he first joined the club and he will want a football club closer to home. In fact, because of his new found role and University studies, he might not want a club next season at all.
The club need to be careful if they have exercised his option because there is no guarantee another club will come in and pay a fee for him after such a recent, serious injury. Then we would be left with an unhappy player, who doesn't want to be here, on a good wage.
I would prefer it if we just cut our losses and moved on, I think the risk of retaining him and having him here on a salary is too risky - but maybe the club feel as though he has sell-on value when he is back up to speed.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:02 am
by Darlo_Pete
Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:54 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:11 am
It was so obvious that Trotman was cheesed off, his Netcafe interview laid it all out about the travel issue.
It's a shame as the club seem to have a policy whereby they treat the players well, for example by letting Trotman go abroad and topping up the 80% to 100% etc.
It's good that they do this, and I hope that the word gets round amongst other players that DFC under our fan owned model is a good place to work.
As for Trotman, we now need to hopefully get some kind of fee for him if possible.
To be fair to Trotman, he was given a contract with us. This protects both the club & the player. In this case the contract did protect the player - nobody could predict such a bad injury.
In terms of the 80% to 100% - yes we have done the correct thing but ultimately you can't make this policy player specific. It had to be the full squad or none at all we were topping salaries up for.
I can understand it from Trotman's point of view, he is travelling a long way, circumstances have changed since he first joined the club and he will want a football club closer to home. In fact, because of his new found role and University studies, he might not want a club next season at all.
The club need to be careful if they have exercised his option because there is no guarantee another club will come in and pay a fee for him after such a recent, serious injury. Then we would be left with an unhappy player, who doesn't want to be here, on a good wage.
I would prefer it if we just cut our losses and moved on, I think the risk of retaining him and having him here on a salary is too risky - but maybe the club feel as though he has sell-on value when he is back up to speed.
The only way we should exercise Trotman's option, is if he is ready & able to play in the first team. The only way we would get an offer from a club for him is if he is playing & performing for us. If we don't expect him to feature for the first team then we shouldn't take up the option we have for him.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:06 am
by wizardofos
I wonder if the new contracts have some caveat attached should games not be played until, say, next year. It will only be a good place to work so long as it is solvent.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:29 am
by Darlofan97
wizardofos wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:06 am
I wonder if the new contracts have some caveat attached should games not be played until, say, next year. It will only be a good place to work so long as it is solvent.
The FA have advised that the wording on the contacts are amended to detail that contracts will begin on the first week of the next season.
So yes, there is a caveat attached should games not be played until next year. Contracts will only start on the first match of next season.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:17 pm
by lo36789
I think Troutman's sell on capacity depends on his commitment / aspirations to get into full time football or to take his football seriously.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has other priorities moving forward so football may be a nice top up but I don't know if he will see it as his primary income moving forward.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:25 pm
by HarrytheQuaker
lo36789 wrote:I think Troutman's sell on capacity depends on his commitment / aspirations to get into full time football or to take his football seriously.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has other priorities moving forward so football may be a nice top up but I don't know if he will see it as his primary income moving forward.
Something fishy about this player
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Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:48 pm
by Darlogramps
HarrytheQuaker wrote:lo36789 wrote:I think Troutman's sell on capacity depends on his commitment / aspirations to get into full time football or to take his football seriously.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has other priorities moving forward so football may be a nice top up but I don't know if he will see it as his primary income moving forward.
Something fishy about this player
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No need to carp on about it.
Re: Thommo
Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:42 pm
by Darlofan97
Trotman now confirmed as leaving on the official website:
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/all-the-best-luke
However, "DFC will be seeking compensation should he wish to sign for another club, as he is under the age of 24."
So the report that he was still under contract was incorrect.
I think that seems mutually acceptable on both sides.