19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

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Quaker85
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19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Quaker85 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:22 am

Has the club considered offering supporters a refund on the 19/20 season tickets?

We could then gift the club the money back saving the club 20% VAT. The danger is of course that not enough fans gift back the money to cover the refunds.

Just a thought.


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divas
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by divas » Tue May 26, 2020 8:00 am

Yes. Exactly that. Just sorting out the fine detail

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Quaker85
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Quaker85 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:18 pm

So we’ve all received the email today. I understand the club is keeping the season ticket money unless people get in touch requesting a refund.

Is the club converting the money into a donation and reversing the output vat already declared? Can this be done as a technical adjustment or does the money have to be refunded and then donated back?

The club will be deferring VAT payments anyway so any refunds won’t be received immediately.


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JE93
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by JE93 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:24 pm

Chris Stockdale has confirmed on twitter that the VAT adjustment can be done by the club, once they are aware of fans decisions (ie if they dont request a refund prior to the refund date).

Individuals will not need to request a refund and then donate this to the club.

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Quaker85
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Quaker85 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:04 pm

Good news!


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polarbear
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by polarbear » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:28 pm

I want a refund

Darlofan97
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:48 pm

polarbear wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:28 pm
I want a refund
Refer a friend to GAS and you can have one.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by darlo reborn » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:35 pm

Get in touch with uncle brad sure he will oblige

JE93
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by JE93 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:48 pm

That is assuming you're one of the few at Spenny who actually paid for one? :lol:

Mister e
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Mister e » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:57 pm

Just a thought would it cost the club very much to let the season ticket holders have a discounted shirt for next season - don't slate me - I said it's just a thought and I am referring to the fans who lost the four home games..

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by polarbear » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:48 pm

darlo reborn wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:35 pm
Get in touch with uncle brad sure he will oblige
i have a joint hartlepool darlington season ticket, dont most darlington fans

JasonDeVos
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by JasonDeVos » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:08 pm

polarbear wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:48 pm
darlo reborn wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:35 pm
Get in touch with uncle brad sure he will oblige
i have a joint hartlepool darlington season ticket, dont most darlington fans
?

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by JasonDeVos » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:10 pm

Hope if any Darlo needs the money back at the moment they will ask for it - as a fans club we look after each other.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:44 am

Mister e wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:57 pm
Just a thought would it cost the club very much to let the season ticket holders have a discounted shirt for next season - don't slate me - I said it's just a thought and I am referring to the fans who lost the four home games..
Depends if the person was likely to buy a shirt or not to start with. If not then actually it will make money as a teaser.

Don't believe we have this data though.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:14 am

Mister e wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:57 pm
Just a thought would it cost the club very much to let the season ticket holders have a discounted shirt for next season - don't slate me - I said it's just a thought and I am referring to the fans who lost the four home games..
I'm no accountant, but I suspect offering a shirt discount would present DFC with a problem reclaiming VAT on the 'donated' tickets because the ticket holders would retain a VATable benefit that would only be realised if the ticket holder decided to buy a shirt. I wouldn't want to be the one charged with administrating that little problem.

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Quaker85
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Quaker85 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:10 am

This VAT donation of season ticket monies isn’t straight forward btw. I understand the club is still checking the legalities before adjusting the accounts.


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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by jjljks » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:08 pm

JasonDeVos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:10 pm
Hope if any Darlo needs the money back at the moment they will ask for it - as a fans club we look after each other.
Absolutely no issue with folk in need due to Covid issues.
Just seems a lot less hassle not to claim any refund & donate to the club by not doing anything. Can see the Admin behind sorting out VAT as well as pro rata refunds will cost the club.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:13 pm

Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:10 am
This VAT donation of season ticket monies isn’t straight forward btw. I understand the club is still checking the legalities before adjusting the accounts.
Surely that would have been done before the "opt out" email.

There wouldnt be a legal question mark if there were two transactions that took place ie. a refund being made for goods / services not provided and then a donation being received - it seems odd for the club to push an "opt out" email if not confirmed that it can be treated that way.

Even more so as it was mentioned weeks ago this was being looked at. Why release the email until resolved?

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:11 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:13 pm
Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:10 am
This VAT donation of season ticket monies isn’t straight forward btw. I understand the club is still checking the legalities before adjusting the accounts.
Surely that would have been done before the "opt out" email.

There wouldnt be a legal question mark if there were two transactions that took place ie. a refund being made for goods / services not provided and then a donation being received - it seems odd for the club to push an "opt out" email if not confirmed that it can be treated that way.

Even more so as it was mentioned weeks ago this was being looked at. Why release the email until resolved?
I didn't receive an e-mail, but the official statement did not mention anything to do with VAT.

It's two separate issues. Offer the refunds now the season has been settled, some will take it, some won't. The club can then explore any VAT reimbursement/exemption for those that did not request a refund by the given date.

You're over-complicating the situation, as usual.

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Quaker85
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Quaker85 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:18 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:13 pm
Quaker85 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:10 am
This VAT donation of season ticket monies isn’t straight forward btw. I understand the club is still checking the legalities before adjusting the accounts.
Surely that would have been done before the "opt out" email.

There wouldnt be a legal question mark if there were two transactions that took place ie. a refund being made for goods / services not provided and then a donation being received - it seems odd for the club to push an "opt out" email if not confirmed that it can be treated that way.

Even more so as it was mentioned weeks ago this was being looked at. Why release the email until resolved?
I didn't receive an e-mail, but the official statement did not mention anything to do with VAT.

It's two separate issues. Offer the refunds now the season has been settled, some will take it, some won't. The club can then explore any VAT reimbursement/exemption for those that did not request a refund by the given date.

You're over-complicating the situation, as usual.
That’s just what I was going to write!

The email covers whether or not the club can keep the 19/20 season ticket money.

If the VAT issue is successfully resolved, the club will be able to claw that back too. Very little admin to do on this point once the legality is established as most of it will already be done in part one (the email).


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lo36789
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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:11 pm

Under Consumer Rights Act we had to offer a refund - which would have resulted in a VAT adjustment. That is absolute there are no questions there.

Donations are not subject to VAT. Again that is absolute there is no question there.

If all customers received a refund, and then separately donated the money there would be no question mark from a legal point of view. The position would be absolutely clear. VAT would not be payable on the donations and the obligation on ticket sales would be reduced accordingly.

It just feels like an own goal if by doing it this way (ie. via opt out) before the question has been resolved we are now not eligible for the VAT adjustment when if done another way then there would have been no issue.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by JE93 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:20 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:11 pm
Under Consumer Rights Act we had to offer a refund - which would have resulted in a VAT adjustment. That is absolute there are no questions there.

Donations are not subject to VAT. Again that is absolute there is no question there.

If all customers received a refund, and then separately donated the money there would be no question mark from a legal point of view. The position would be absolutely clear. VAT would not be payable on the donations and the obligation on ticket sales would be reduced accordingly.

It just feels like an own goal if by doing it this way (ie. via opt out) before the question has been resolved we are now not eligible for the VAT adjustment when if done another way then there would have been no issue.
When you say, if done the other way there would be no issue. There would be the issue of potentially refunding circa £30,000 in cash, and then hoping people would re donate to the cause. Which once people have the money in their bank accounts is a big assumption as it requires positive action, rather than just people doing nothing.

Are you actually aware of any ‘real’ concerns from those in charge or is this just being completely over thought?

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:32 pm

JE93 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:20 pm
Are you actually aware of any ‘real’ concerns from those in charge or is this just being completely over thought?
Nope - none at all to be honest which is why I think the e-mail came out today given the finer details have been being worked on for nearly a month now with regard capacity to claim back to the VAT. Why not wait another week if there was an outstanding question.
divas wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:00 am
Yes. Exactly that. Just sorting out the fine detail
There are so many other ways to have structured this and legally opt out rather than opt in are seen very differently.

One of the below is a potential £1.4billion fine, the other one isn't.
  • "We can send you your full statement history, would you like us to?"
  • "We will send your full statement history to you, please advise if you don't want us to"

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:40 pm

I've not received an email regarding a refund🙄

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:45 pm

Lo, JE93 has already pointed out that the suggestion of issuing refunds for all & then having the VAT donated back is risky strategy.

You're over-complicating it. The club will save money by many fans not asking for refunds and then they will attempt to claim a percentage of the VAT back paid on season ticket sales in due course.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm

Maybe - I just don't see why send it out now and not a month ago then if trying to establish VAT treatment is neither here nor there and could always come next - when it was said that only finer details were being worked out on 23rd May.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:49 pm

Harry the message is on official site and the last paragraph applies to you unless it has gone to spam

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:53 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm
Maybe - I just don't see why send it out now and not a month ago then if trying to establish VAT treatment is neither here nor there and could always come next - when it was said that only finer details were being worked out on 23rd May.
It's no coincidence that the refund statement has been announced just after the league announced that the league was settled (at least for us).

Maybe one month ago the club were expecting a quicker announcement on the conclusion of the league? I also don't recall what Divas says on here as being the same as the club communicating something official (no offence Divas!).

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm

fair shout I didn't really pay attention to the final league table / settled status of that (as you say didn't really mean much to us) - but that makes sense actually.

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Re: 19/20 Season Ticket Refunds

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:11 pm

Maurice_Peddelty wrote:Harry the message is on official site and the last paragraph applies to you unless it has gone to spam
I know where it is as I read the offical site.. And within 30mins of me posting on here I recieved 2 emails so thanks..

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