Increasingly unlikely playoffs

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Quaker85
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Quaker85 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:38 am

Mister e wrote:
jjljks wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:41 am
Would be a bonus if Boston Utd went up through the play-offs as it is like King's Lynn, a helluva way to go for an away game. Equally, Brackley would not be a great loss, although quite a few Darlo exiles in the South do make it to that fixture.

Thought Chester were against play-offs due to the costs associated with playing behind closed doors. Gateshead probably would not want to risk their money, although with their crowds are probably the best accustomed for playing behind closed doors!
From a selfish point of view and being a bit of a ground hopper we don't want to lose Boston United yet as they are moving into a brand new stadium which I believe is called the quadrant.
Ditto York plus the amount of fans they bring to our place.


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lo36789
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:40 am

jjljks wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:35 am
Was looking forward to a trip up to South Shields, but with no relegation from NLN & no promotion, the only way they could go up is if another club goes bust. Would not wish that on anyone.
Won't happen even if something did. The only situation would be if en masse a lot of clubs went resulting in a full restructuring.

Relegation reprieves rather than promotion cherry pickers are the tool of choice usually - that is why one division out of NLN and NLS will likely run a team short next season.

Darlogramps
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Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:22 pm

The FA have also explicitly said that they won’t promote anyone to fill gaps higher up the divisions.

If the Step 2 play-offs take place, that means four promoted in total to the National League, with three coming down (Chorley, Ebbsfleet and AFC Fylde) to keep Step 1 at 24 teams.

That would mean NLS next season would run at 21 teams. I wonder if Gloucester would fancy moving back across to NLS. Not sure whether that could happen, but given they’re moving back to Gloucester from Evesham (I.E. even further south) they could well prefer it. Who knows, I’m speculating.

And given the expansion to 24 teams in Step 2 for 2021/22, that presumably means one of NLN or NLS will only relegate one team (assuming a full and uninterrupted 2020/21 season).
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lo36789
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:38 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:22 pm
The FA have also explicitly said that they won’t promote anyone to fill gaps higher up the divisions.

If the Step 2 play-offs take place, that means four promoted in total to the National League, with three coming down (Chorley, Ebbsfleet and AFC Fylde) to keep Step 1 at 24 teams.

That would mean NLS next season would run at 21 teams. I wonder if Gloucester would fancy moving back across to NLS. Not sure whether that could happen, but given they’re moving back to Gloucester from Evesham (I.E. even further south) they could well prefer it. Who knows, I’m speculating.

And given the expansion to 24 teams in Step 2 for 2021/22, that presumably means one of NLN or NLS will only relegate one team (assuming a full and uninterrupted 2020/21 season).
That is what I am thinking. (if the playoffs take place) there will be 43 teams at Step 2 and an appropriate line will then be drawn. As far as I am aware that is actually how it always happens once promotion and relegation is settled - effectively teams aren't strictly promoted into NLN / NLS or relegated to NLN / NLS they are just promoted / relegated to Step 2.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by shildonlad » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:56 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:22 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:39 am
At this level I think a lot of players are on 52 week contracts ( even part time players) but this varies by club.
How many is a lot. I suspect the vast majority are on 40 weeks contracts (which is why at this level you do see many players announced in May / June time).

Rather than 1st July which is the time when a 52 week contract for the "playing season" would end.
Alot of national league pro clubs dont put players on 52 week contracts hence why players obviously take holidays close season or do things like coaching the kids at soccer schools
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by shildonlad » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:59 am

jjljks wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:41 am
Would be a bonus if Boston Utd went up through the play-offs as it is like King's Lynn, a helluva way to go for an away game. Equally, Brackley would not be a great loss, although quite a few Darlo exiles in the South do make it to that fixture.

Thought Chester were against play-offs due to the costs associated with playing behind closed doors. Gateshead probably would not want to risk their money, although with their crowds are probably the best accustomed for playing behind closed doors!
Darlo would have the same amount of fans as gateshead had they not spent many in the football league in one form or another. Gateshead's large stadium running a 10% of total capacity will work in the clubs favour with whats going on currently
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by EDJOHNS » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:10 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:56 am
lo36789 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:22 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:39 am
At this level I think a lot of players are on 52 week contracts ( even part time players) but this varies by club.
How many is a lot. I suspect the vast majority are on 40 weeks contracts (which is why at this level you do see many players announced in May / June time).

Rather than 1st July which is the time when a 52 week contract for the "playing season" would end.
Alot of national league pro clubs dont put players on 52 week contracts hence why players obviously take holidays close season or do things like coaching the kids at soccer schools
By "pro" I guess you mean full time? If so, I would love to know which clubs players are less than 52 week contracted?

lo36789
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:23 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:56 am
lo36789 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:22 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:39 am
At this level I think a lot of players are on 52 week contracts ( even part time players) but this varies by club.
How many is a lot. I suspect the vast majority are on 40 weeks contracts (which is why at this level you do see many players announced in May / June time).

Rather than 1st July which is the time when a 52 week contract for the "playing season" would end.
Alot of national league pro clubs dont put players on 52 week contracts hence why players obviously take holidays close season or do things like coaching the kids at soccer schools
I agree but "our" level is step 2 so not a lot of clubs are pro (2 or 3?)

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by AndyPark » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:33 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:59 am
jjljks wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:41 am
Would be a bonus if Boston Utd went up through the play-offs as it is like King's Lynn, a helluva way to go for an away game. Equally, Brackley would not be a great loss, although quite a few Darlo exiles in the South do make it to that fixture.

Thought Chester were against play-offs due to the costs associated with playing behind closed doors. Gateshead probably would not want to risk their money, although with their crowds are probably the best accustomed for playing behind closed doors!
Darlo would have the same amount of fans as gateshead had they not spent many in the football league in one form or another. Gateshead's large stadium running a 10% of total capacity will work in the clubs favour with whats going on currently
You don’t half talk some utter utter shite.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:06 pm

Weren't Gateshead in the football league for 41 years?

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by jjljks » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:00 pm

Some ideas about TV coverage of projected play-offs generating enough cash to pay for all the "extras" needed to sort Covid issues. It would be interesting to see figures for the current glut of Premier League games & whether any TV company is prepared to pay to televise NLN & NLS level.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Shed7 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:15 pm

According to fylde chairman it will cost clubs £150k to play in play offs. There is also insurance on top of that. Clubs in NLN surely cannot afford that!

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:27 pm

Shed7 wrote:According to fylde chairman it will cost clubs £150k to play in play offs. There is also insurance on top of that. Clubs in NLN surely cannot afford that!
York Can Brackley also , you also have to weigh up what it's worth to them to go up..

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Quaker85
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Quaker85 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:46 am

Shed7 wrote:According to fylde chairman it will cost clubs £150k to play in play offs. There is also insurance on top of that. Clubs in NLN surely cannot afford that!
That’s what he wants them to think!


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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by AndyPark » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:10 am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... sions.html

South Shields appeal cost them 200k in legal fees.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:34 am

Play-off dates:

18th/19th July: Eliminators

25th/26th July: Play-off Semi-Finals

1st/2nd August: Play-off Final

If the National League hadn’t badly misinterpreted the guidance from DCMS then clubs would be well under way with their training schedules & perhaps close to playing their first play-off game.

Madness how this has rumbled on for so long, unnecessarily, and that the conclusion is due to be reached fairly close to the proposed new season start date of September.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:59 am

AndyPark wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... sions.html

South Shields appeal cost them 200k in legal fees.
Thick as mince as they thought they had a case what a bunch of muppets

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:24 am

They can’t complain, not when they spend hundreds of thousands on a budget each year to attract players from far & wide. Nobody forced them to take the case on.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:32 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:46 am
Shed7 wrote:According to fylde chairman it will cost clubs £150k to play in play offs. There is also insurance on top of that. Clubs in NLN surely cannot afford that!
That’s what he wants them to think!


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Agreed that it's a game. He's trying to gaslight Step 2 clubs to not take part in the play-offs. Poor behaviour.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:01 pm

Stop him if you can... :D

lo36789
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:30 pm

Quaker85 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:46 am
Shed7 wrote:According to fylde chairman it will cost clubs £150k to play in play offs. There is also insurance on top of that. Clubs in NLN surely cannot afford that!
That’s what he wants them to think!


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York have actually confirmed this. They said £120k-£150k of cost will be incurred to participate. Weymouth have said they need to raise £50k from fans to cover costs associated also.

lo36789
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:32 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:24 am
They can’t complain, not when they spend hundreds of thousands on a budget each year to attract players from far & wide. Nobody forced them to take the case on.
Agree most of this seems to be covering the FAs legal fees. What would be the alternative that all other affiliates to the FA have to effectively cover this with increased fees next season...

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:07 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:32 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:24 am
They can’t complain, not when they spend hundreds of thousands on a budget each year to attract players from far & wide. Nobody forced them to take the case on.
Agree most of this seems to be covering the FAs legal fees. What would be the alternative that all other affiliates to the FA have to effectively cover this with increased fees next season...
Yep, the wording of the article suggests that the bill has doubled because South Shields lost the case and have to pay the FA's legal fees, so in simplistic terms it will be £100k to cover their own fees & £100k to cover the FA's fees.

South Shields will have understood the implications if they lost the case, were they really expecting to win, or the FA to waive the cost of the fees if they lost? It would have set a major precedent if either occurred.

I'd also be surprised if the reward of promotion is even worth £100k from the NPL to NLN given their geographical location and limited ground capacity.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by banktopp » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:42 pm

AndyPark wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:10 am
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... sions.html

South Shields appeal cost them 200k in legal fees.
Their mistake was not to hire the finest legal mind in the North East, who is often to be found posting wisdom on this forum.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by jjljks » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:54 pm

York would have to play at Bootham Crescent as the new ground at Monks Cross would first have to get a safety certificate, which means testing with a mass gathering. Catch22 or Covid19?
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/f ... ll-2886521

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:55 pm

Chester are having to think long and hard over the major financial implications and you can see why when you read their latest update. They say they won't put the financial security of the club at risk. They've lost their benefactor whereas it's not an issue for a club like Brackley with their multi-millionaire owner Allan Leighton able to foot the bill without it threatening the club. If it was us, there would have been a big decision to make and some major extra one-off fundraising required if the decision was Yes.

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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:27 pm

jjljks wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:54 pm
York would have to play at Bootham Crescent as the new ground at Monks Cross would first have to get a safety certificate, which means testing with a mass gathering. Catch22 or Covid19?
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/f ... ll-2886521

But there's no fans in attendance, so it's pitch use only.
banktopp wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:42 pm
AndyPark wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:10 am
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... sions.html

South Shields appeal cost them 200k in legal fees.
Their mistake was not to hire the finest legal mind in the North East, who is often to be found posting wisdom on this forum.
An utter genius and independent free thinker.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Old Git
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by Old Git » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:28 pm

South Shields made the mistake of using local solicitors Hadaway and Shite. It clearly didn’t go down well with the bigwigs from the FA.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:00 pm

Old Git wrote:South Shields made the mistake of using local solicitors Hadaway and Shite. It clearly didn’t go down well with the bigwigs from the FA.
It wouldn't matter who they used they would never of won , and to suggest its because of them solicitors they lost is utter tosh

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Increasingly unlikely playoffs

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:15 pm

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:00 pm
Old Git wrote:South Shields made the mistake of using local solicitors Hadaway and Shite. It clearly didn’t go down well with the bigwigs from the FA.
It wouldn't matter who they used they would never of won , and to suggest its because of them solicitors they lost is utter tosh

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Too right, apparently Hadaway and Shite have a terrible reputation.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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