Sports village

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lo36789
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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:14 pm

Nope defos not - the question is can the rugby club even authorise it...is that even in their gift to do so.

The type of relationship is landlord and tenant we know that. It's the same as we had with Bishop and realistically all we could hope for from the arena.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Sports village

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:52 pm

Depeche Mode - Master and Servant.

Sorry, just went a bit 80s pop there - I think Lockdown is messing with my brain.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Mister e
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Re: Sports village

Post by Mister e » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:07 pm

speaking of signs it's the electronic one in the bar that irritates me - welcome to Blackwell meadows home of Darlington rugby club on our match day would it really hurt them to welcome our visiting opponents or even just switch it off for a few hours during our game time there.

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Re: Sports village

Post by al_quaker » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:41 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:14 pm

The type of relationship is landlord and tenant we know that. It's the same as we had with Bishop and realistically all we could hope for from the arena.
True, but maybe at the Arena we might be allowed a sign :lol: ;)

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Re: Sports village

Post by bga » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:43 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:14 pm
Nope defos not - the question is can the rugby club even authorise it...is that even in their gift to do so.

The type of relationship is landlord and tenant we know that. It's the same as we had with Bishop and realistically all we could hope for from the arena.
WE ARE NOT TENANTS..... have we not been through this endless times before? We merely have a licence to play don't we, based on a pay per match basis?

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Re: Sports village

Post by quakersfan » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:37 pm

onewayup wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:08 pm
Just a thought, I wonder if the proposal of 2015 by the R.U group which was knocked back because of the proposed sporting village, will look at the plan again.
They wanted to build a retail park with plans for the football club to become part of it they were willing to build a purpose built stadium at the time.
I seem to remember Ben houchen being involved, meetings at that time with Martin jesper,and David mills had been going on for about 4 month i recall.
It's 5 years ago, but you never know.
The R.U group was written on the back of a fag packet and quite rightly got kicked into touch, the scheme nor the figures stacked up. Remember BM is on a flood plain and there lies the main problem for any major development.
Houchen fully backs the Arena scheme and has backed it financially. Talk of the RU scheme resurrecting is just nonsense. I hate to say it we have found our level We rarely get above 2000 in a capacity 3100. Yes it would be good to have an away end but let’s all be realistic let’s just survive, the worst thing financially would be to get promotion as it would cripple us until we can fund it properly and that’s where the problem lies.

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Re: Sports village

Post by H1987 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:22 pm

The flood plain is less problematic than that f'ing pipe...

That said though - we don't need major development. We need a modest-sized terrace to be at a conference national level. That should be our short term goal. Trying to run before we can walk is what landed the club at the Arena in the first place. We shouldn't be basing decisions on building a football league ground right now.

Let's just embrace Blackwell and work constructively to make it better.

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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:05 pm

H1987 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:22 pm
The flood plain is less problematic than that f'ing pipe...

That said though - we don't need major development. We need a modest-sized terrace to be at a conference national level. That should be our short term goal. Trying to run before we can walk is what landed the club at the Arena in the first place. We shouldn't be basing decisions on building a football league ground right now.

Let's just embrace Blackwell and work constructively to make it better.
The Arena was purely a vanity project of George’s nothing to do with football. It is really hard to embrace Blackwell when we have so little influence in what happens there and it just doesn’t seem like our home. Perhaps we should just accept it for what it is but the current situation could be so much better for all concerned if attitudes were different. When we moved to Blackwell I expected the relationship between the clubs to be one of mutual co-operation but sadly I was wrong.

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Re: Sports village

Post by quakermass » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:39 pm

As well as a sign outside the ground we should also have some Darlo memorabilia inside the clubhouse to make us feel part of the set up. I.e. photos of former players...previous squad photos etc. The fact we have diddly squat sends out a firm message that there’s no close bond between the football and rugby club...something that’s been evident since day one. Personally I really hope BM isn’t our long term home, but DJ isn’t daft and I’m sure he’ll end up doing what’s right for all parties going forwards.


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H1987
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Re: Sports village

Post by H1987 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:43 am

Old Git wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:05 pm
H1987 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:22 pm
The flood plain is less problematic than that f'ing pipe...

That said though - we don't need major development. We need a modest-sized terrace to be at a conference national level. That should be our short term goal. Trying to run before we can walk is what landed the club at the Arena in the first place. We shouldn't be basing decisions on building a football league ground right now.

Let's just embrace Blackwell and work constructively to make it better.
The Arena was purely a vanity project of George’s nothing to do with football. It is really hard to embrace Blackwell when we have so little influence in what happens there and it just doesn’t seem like our home. Perhaps we should just accept it for what it is but the current situation could be so much better for all concerned if attitudes were different. When we moved to Blackwell I expected the relationship between the clubs to be one of mutual co-operation but sadly I was wrong.
I’m afraid a lot of people bought into his nonsense. Let’s not present otherwise. There was little to no opposition to the move.

The bit about attitudes won’t improve while some of our fans are determined not to improve things either.

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Re: Sports village

Post by eek » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:12 am

H1987 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:43 am


I’m afraid a lot of people bought into his nonsense. Let’s not present otherwise. There was little to no opposition to the move.

The bit about attitudes won’t improve while some of our fans are determined not to improve things either.
What would have objecting have achieved after all Feethams was showing it's age in a lot of places.

Reynolds' problem was that he wanted a stadium come what may - if he had been less ambitious and not annoyed everyone we wouldn't be in the mess we found ourselves in and instead could have ended up with something like AFC Flyde - which would have worked fine.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Sports village

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:16 am

Fylde are doped up good and proper - they will fall like a stone when their Sugar Daddy turns sour.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Footifanreturns
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Re: Sports village

Post by Footifanreturns » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:42 am

There was a 12,000 seater option with an option to build additions later, which at the time would have been ideal.
But of course Georgie was not interested.

Old Git
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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:57 pm

The problem H1987 is that we can not improve things. We have tried to be good tenants and respect the Rugby Club but they don’t seem interested in our needs at all. Maybe I am petty but I no longer contribute anything to their coffers. Apart from entrance money,50/50 tickets and programmes I spend nothing at Blackwell Meadows and do not intend to. Perhaps if more of us did the same it would impact on their finances and they may be more likely to be more hospitable who knows?

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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:13 pm

Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:57 pm
The problem H1987 is that we can not improve things. We have tried to be good tenants and respect the Rugby Club but they don’t seem interested in our needs at all. Maybe I am petty but I no longer contribute anything to their coffers. Apart from entrance money,50/50 tickets and programmes I spend nothing at Blackwell Meadows and do not intend to. Perhaps if more of us did the same it would impact on their finances and they may be more likely to be more hospitable who knows?
I mean it impacts our finances because we have a share of proceeds from spend at Blackwell Meadows. They charge for providing the goods and service but we get a share of the margin.

Which is good because at Heritage Park we got nada

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Re: Sports village

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:20 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:57 pm
The problem H1987 is that we can not improve things. We have tried to be good tenants and respect the Rugby Club but they don’t seem interested in our needs at all. Maybe I am petty but I no longer contribute anything to their coffers. Apart from entrance money,50/50 tickets and programmes I spend nothing at Blackwell Meadows and do not intend to. Perhaps if more of us did the same it would impact on their finances and they may be more likely to be more hospitable who knows?
I mean it impacts our finances because we have a share of proceeds from spend at Blackwell Meadows. They charge for providing the goods and service but we get a share of the margin.

Which is good because at Heritage Park we got nada
Ok then lo, what about the cut they take from our advertising boards that the club work very hard for.Was a figure of 20% mentioned some time ago.

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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:30 pm

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:20 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:57 pm
The problem H1987 is that we can not improve things. We have tried to be good tenants and respect the Rugby Club but they don’t seem interested in our needs at all. Maybe I am petty but I no longer contribute anything to their coffers. Apart from entrance money,50/50 tickets and programmes I spend nothing at Blackwell Meadows and do not intend to. Perhaps if more of us did the same it would impact on their finances and they may be more likely to be more hospitable who knows?
I mean it impacts our finances because we have a share of proceeds from spend at Blackwell Meadows. They charge for providing the goods and service but we get a share of the margin.

Which is good because at Heritage Park we got nada
Ok then lo, what about the cut they take from our advertising boards that the club work very hard for.Was a figure of 20% mentioned some time ago.

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Believe the figure is 50%

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Re: Sports village

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:34 pm

Old Git wrote:
QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:20 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Old Git wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:57 pm
The problem H1987 is that we can not improve things. We have tried to be good tenants and respect the Rugby Club but they don’t seem interested in our needs at all. Maybe I am petty but I no longer contribute anything to their coffers. Apart from entrance money,50/50 tickets and programmes I spend nothing at Blackwell Meadows and do not intend to. Perhaps if more of us did the same it would impact on their finances and they may be more likely to be more hospitable who knows?
I mean it impacts our finances because we have a share of proceeds from spend at Blackwell Meadows. They charge for providing the goods and service but we get a share of the margin.

Which is good because at Heritage Park we got nada
Ok then lo, what about the cut they take from our advertising boards that the club work very hard for.Was a figure of 20% mentioned some time ago.

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Believe the figure is 50%
Surely never 50% Old Git, if so that says it all.

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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:42 pm

Had a conversation with Craig Morley last year and my recollection was that he said it was split 50/50 between the clubs. I was shocked as well. If anyone knows for sure then I am happy to be corrected.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Sports village

Post by don'tbuythesun » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:02 pm

I find that astonishing! When there was discussion about Craig's post and the cost I had no idea that half of every sign funding would disappear elsewhere. Whoever sorted that agreement from the rugby club was a genius.

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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:45 pm

I thought it was rumoured as 80/20 and it works in both ways. So we get 20% of a board that they sell. They would have to get something as there is an opportunity cost to them for every board we take up.

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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:57 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:45 pm
I thought it was rumoured as 80/20 and it works in both ways. So we get 20% of a board that they sell. They would have to get something as there is an opportunity cost to them for every board we take up.
Remind me how many boards did the Rugby Club sell 😂😂😂

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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:10 pm

No idea but it's still an opportunity cost. If we sold all the boards they'd lose all their capacity to make money if it was 100%. Would you as a landlord agree to that?

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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:22 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:10 pm
No idea but it's still an opportunity cost. If we sold all the boards they'd lose all their capacity to make money if it was 100%. Would you as a landlord agree to that?
If I remember right there were about 6 advertising boards when we moved in. Just don’t understand why a DFC fan like you are supposed to be would make excuses for the Rugby Club. Are you Wilkinson in disguise?

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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:25 pm

Excuses? Or just understanding that in a negotiation there are two parties and when there is a single asset there is going to be a compromise involved.

They have the asset and they want to make that asset work for them they are under no obligation to give anything away.

And also realising there is no point being angry or blaming a rugby club for basically just looking after its interests and putting it ahead of the football clubs. That is very reasonable behaviour on their part so I can't understand that?

I genuinley think there are people here who think we deserve 100% of bar proceeds when we are there plus everything that is generated by the football club and don't see that as being an unreasonable expectation.

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Re: Sports village

Post by Old Git » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:40 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:25 pm
Excuses? Or just understanding that in a negotiation there are two parties and when there is a single asset there is going to be a compromise involved.

They have the asset and they want to make that asset work for them they are under no obligation to give anything away.

And also realising there is no point being angry or blaming a rugby club for basically just looking after its interests and putting it ahead of the football clubs. That is very reasonable behaviour on their part so I can't understand that?

I genuinley think there are people here who think we deserve 100% of bar proceeds when we are there plus everything that is generated by the football club and don't see that as being an unreasonable expectation.
Agree with much of what you say but can you explain what compromises you think the Rugby Club has made?

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Re: Sports village

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:41 pm

lo36789 wrote:Excuses? Or just understanding that in a negotiation there are two parties and when there is a single asset there is going to be a compromise involved.

They have the asset and they want to make that asset work for them they are under no obligation to give anything away.

And also realising there is no point being angry or blaming a rugby club for basically just looking after its interests and putting it ahead of the football clubs. That is very reasonable behaviour on their part so I can't understand that?

I genuinley think there are people here who think we deserve 100% of bar proceeds when we are there plus everything that is generated by the football club and don't see that as being an unreasonable expectation.
Do they bother to operate a bar when they play with so few attending ?.They make money out of the football support not the rugby support so it's not unreasonable to conclude DFC have got a raw deal

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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:42 pm

Well they don't get to use their first team pitch for first team games. We have priority use over their pitch and in fact their whole premise when we need it.

That is quite a bit compromise as the owner of an asset.

Well yes I understand that they have members who go their every single week home or away to use their bar didn't they have full time bar staff as well which probably gives some clue as to the demand / usage.

Let's make digs at their attendances. You completely miss the purpose of their club if you think their primary focus is the performance, progression and attendance of first team games. They are more about participation than spectating.

Well actually they lose money from football support as I understand it from a committee member. Their takings and actual profit on DFC matchdays is less than a normal non-playing match day. Obviously they are compensated in the form of the rent payments but that is again pretty reasonable

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Sports village

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:39 pm

They lose money from football support?

Could you explain that please lo?

Or, couldn’t we take over on a match day and make money (because our fans would buy) They in turn wouldn’t allegedly lose money, so win/ win.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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lo36789
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Re: Sports village

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:45 pm

These figures are completely made up but just as a representation to illustrate 'how'.

When Darlington play at home the rugby club sell 100 pints. For £2.50 of which £2.00 is costs and of the profit that is split 50:50. Therefore they make £25 profit.

Before Darlington used to attend they used to sell 60 pints on a normal Saturday when the bars weren't exclusively for football fans. Making 50p profit on each one so in total £30 of profit.

I'm just basing on a committee member who basically said that effectively they lose out from a bar perspective on us being there...obviously they make money in the long run because per the example about as long as we pay more than £5 in rent there is a net benefit.
Last edited by lo36789 on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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