October

Open now for discussion of all things Darlo!

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lo36789
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Re: October

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:51 am

quaker4life wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:58 am
I'd like to know exactly what is meant by "elite sport" I would assume this means Premier League/Championship football Premier League Rugby, top flight Cricket, golf etc. This could have serious implications lower down the pyramid and any suggestion of resuming behind closed doors is absolutely nonsensical it would be financial suicide for many clubs.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out and what the National League's response is to it.
The original definition was that it meant where the participants predominant income came from the sport - that was part of the challenge which lead to the NLN / S playoffs taking place. Behind closed doors doesn't make sense but actually restrictions at c. 50% wouldn't affect that many clubs I wouldn't have thought.

Summary of League Two ground utilisation based on average attendance. Basically shows a 50% restriction would only affect 6 clubs. 60% would only affect Northampton Town.

Northampton - <67%
<60% - Bradford, Pymouth, Orient, Exeter, Salford
<50% - Swindon, Walsall, Grimsby, Crewe, Mansfield, Cambridge, Newport, Cheltenham, Stevenage, Forest Green
<40% - Colchester, Scunthorpe, Morecambe, Crawley, Macclesfield
<30% - Port Vale, Carlisle, Oldham

quaker4life
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Re: October

Post by quaker4life » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:00 am

Reduced capacity could also cause problems in and of itself particularly in non league, wage bills running costs etc would have to be reduced to fit reduced income. It seems the current plans only apply to the higher levels and there doesn't yet appear to be a plan for local/grassroots sport hopefully we'll see one in the near future a September/October restart at our level is not as straight forward as it may seem.
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poppyfield
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Re: October

Post by poppyfield » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:13 am

If numbers are restricted, i would rather see away support put on hold, until such times when all restrictions are lifted. If we have have segregation for a particular game it would just be a nonsense for the amount of away spectators we get, i know some teams in our league bring a few, but, i would rather see an extra 100 or whatever the number might be of Darlo supporters getting the chance to see the team play .

Matches i assume would be all ticket, to keep a check on how many are allowed in, season ticket holders numbers would need to be managed somehow.

Not everyone with a season ticket attends every game, i know i miss a few, some might be uncomfortable attending games at all in the present situation, so if we could come up with a system which lets the club know if a season ticket holder will not be attending a particular game that would be great, the revenue gained from the extra ticket sold could be crucial to the club.

Hopefully young children (under 11s) will not be counted in the total allowed in the ground.

With restricted attendance we are going to have to be imaginative in getting every place filled to our allowed capacity.
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darlobaz791
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Re: October

Post by darlobaz791 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:01 pm

Looks like September is the aim. See the topic with that title

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Re: October

Post by quaker4life » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:05 pm

I have to be honest I don't know how it's going to work, it's much easier to manage at the higher levels as many stadium's have electronic turnstiles and e-ticketing systems etc so they know who's there at any given time, also there is ample space in concourses for social distancing but the lower down you go the more limited facilities become and expecting clubs to manage on reduced crowds when numbers are already sparse in some cases as it is, is a tall order.

There are various factors to consider not just financially but logistically as well and many questions need to be answered a few spring to mind;

What if someone who attends a match tests positive for COVID-19 how many people will have to self isolate? Will crowds have to be locked out for a period of time?

What if a club falls in an area which has been affected by a local outbreak and is forced to play behind closed doors?

God forbid there is a second outbreak and supporters are refused entry across the board again what happens then?

Decisions will have to be made by the powers that be on how to proceed hopefully the picture will become clearer over the next couple of months.
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lo36789
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Re: October

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Guidance has come out to all the clubs today for those in the National League System (that is us).

"VI. SPECTATORS / GATHERINGS
Current Government guidance: Gatherings of more than 30 people are not permitted while social distancing. Therefore, clubs are unable to have gatherings or spectators of any size at this time for any matches or training.

We are currently working with DCMS and other key stakeholders to understand the timescale for the return to spectators at sporting events. Initial discussions have identified that it will be difficult to return to competitive matches without the ability to welcome some form of spectators to matches. There is no current available or formal guidance. The following guidance is designed to provide clubs with suggested considerations to prepare for spectators based on social distancing. We strongly urge clubs to give this some thought now in order to move forward when guidance becomes available:

Considerations for clubs: If social-distancing measures are relaxed in future to permit spectators, Clubs will need to consider the management of any spectators within the applicable social distancing guidelines. As with Section B & C clubs are advised to consider their own Risk Assessment and Action Plan. If spectators were to be allowed at, for example, a reduced capacity, Clubs should consider how they could manage this effectively such as introducing advance purchase ticket schemes, allowing clubs to manage walk ups.

Clubs may need to consider markings for queues with tape on the floor at 2m where possible, but a minimum of 1m if not (i.e. at turnstiles and takeaway food areas), markings for spectator standing, reducing the availability of seats within covered accommodation, management of toilets, hygiene protocols (more hand sanitisers in toilets, entrances and exits to spaces), extensive signage, crowd management processes, i.e. barriers at pinch point/one way flow.

Each ground will be unique and will require their own individual Risk Assessment and Action Plans."

Darlofan97
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Re: October

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:08 pm

I could be wrong, but I can imagine procedures will be fairly straight-forward to be honest. None of this “I just don’t see how it’s going to work” rubbish.

•A one-way system in & out of the ground, as well as around the pitch & in to the tin-shed.

•Tickets to be purchased online prior to matches (only) with consent given for contact details to be passed to NHS Track & Trace in the event of a confirmed case. Ticket sales capped at the limited capacity.

•Car park tickets to be purchased online, with a voucher issued to be shown to the car park steward to enter.

•Enhanced cleaning of the toilet, shower & bar facilities.

•Fans advised to arrive at the ground early to avoid congestion.

•Seats to be identified as “available” or “not available” with tape.

•Fans allowed to stand together as long as they are part of the same household.

•In the event of matches played behind closed doors due to Covid-19, the club will set up a revenue booster to cover the forecasted profit margin of these matches.

•Footballs to be cleaned and placed around the pitch perimeter.

•A copy of the risk assessment to be published on to the website.

•Hand sanitiser stations fixed on to the turnstiles to be used or to be used upon entry through the turnstiles.

•Fans encouraged to wear masks (but not forced).

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Re: October

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:23 pm

Most of that will be the case plus

- may need to show ID on entry to avoid ticket transference (track and trace)
- markings to space out fans in standing areas (this is already referenced in the FA guidelines) to at least 1 metre but ideally 2
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:08 pm
•Fans encouraged to wear masks (but not forced).
I think this will be forced to be honest. If wearing face coverings is mandatory in shops and public transport it doesn't seem a huge step to make mandatory at mass gatherings.

lo36789
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Re: October

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:08 pm
•Seats to be identified as “available” or “not available” with tape.

•Fans allowed to stand together as long as they are part of the same household.
Fans in same household / bubble will be allowed to sit together not just stand together - I think that is the awkward bit.

To be honest based on that the actual rules will be unenforceable as you don't have to register your household / bubbles so it will really be down to self adherence to rules.

There will be markings on the ground to indicate distance and guidance around seats on how many need to be left empty in between but I am not sure any physical barriers will be in place.

Hospitality capacity will be reduced also which is a blow as we make a bit of money from that as I understood it.

H1987
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Re: October

Post by H1987 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm

Whenever it does happen - and I don't believe it will happen by October - I'd say that home fans only is a sensible policy - it stops potential infections spreading around the country if an outbreak were tracked to a football game. Advance tickets only as well - and most likely you'd restrict fans moving around the stadium. So you buy a ticket for the tinshed, or the seats, and open end, or the clubhouse... and that's it. You can't move between them (Individual stands only in many clubs). Then if you have an outbreak, you can track and trace everyone in that stand.

How you get people to leave in a distanced manner is anyone's guess, and would require real management by stewards.

Honestly, i'd just delay the season until we can do it.

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dfc4me
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Re: October

Post by dfc4me » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:48 pm

A few weeks ago I read somewhere that the FA want all non league football to restart at the same time and not until fans can be present. As for social distancing if the police have no powers to enforce it then football clubs have no chance. But is it really needed at matches at our level? All the protest marches a few weeks ago involved far more people than you get at any NL match, there was no social distancing and very few masks worn yet there was no spike in infections. Add in the fact that there is now less than 1 in 2000 people with Covid so you would be seriously unlucky if that 1 person was at a match. There is also little or no face to face contact so with compulsory face masks everything should be fine.

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Re: October

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:18 pm

It has been announced today.

Step 1/2 - 5th September
Step 3/4 - 19th September
Step 5/6 - 5th September

I don't actually know the logic behind EvoStik starting later than National League given the former got null and voided and are ready whereas the latter are still playing and not all teams know which league they will be in!

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Re: October

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:48 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm
Whenever it does happen - and I don't believe it will happen by October - I'd say that home fans only is a sensible policy - it stops potential infections spreading around the country if an outbreak were tracked to a football game. Advance tickets only as well - and most likely you'd restrict fans moving around the stadium. So you buy a ticket for the tinshed, or the seats, and open end, or the clubhouse... and that's it. You can't move between them (Individual stands only in many clubs). Then if you have an outbreak, you can track and trace everyone in that stand.

How you get people to leave in a distanced manner is anyone's guess, and would require real management by stewards.

Honestly, i'd just delay the season until we can do it.
Where do you draw the line though? Shops are re-opening, pubs/restaurants are & so are schools. Football is a big business. Do we just put it all on hold without even trying to bring it back in a safe & controlled manner?

It can be done, with the right measures and fans applying common sense to come & watch their team play, something which we have been yearning for months.

lo36789
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Re: October

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:51 pm

I hope the clubs are judged on the effort to put up clear directives and inform spectators on what they expect rather than based on adherence that is witnessed.

Personally I don't think it should be down to stewards to police these things, it will just lead to confrontation and an aggressive reaction from fans.

If people don't like what others are doing move away from them and find your own space - perhaps they can be warned about future conduct using the contact details obtained and if there are persistent offenders then they are prevented from accessing future games (but I suspect that there will be so much non-adherence that will be impossible to follow up on frankly).

PierremontQuaker03
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Re: October

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:43 pm

Has everyone been removed from furlough now do we know? I presume Alun has
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dfc4me
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Re: October

Post by dfc4me » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:20 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:18 pm
It has been announced today.

Step 1/2 - 5th September
Step 3/4 - 19th September
Step 5/6 - 5th September

I don't actually know the logic behind EvoStik starting later than National League given the former got null and voided and are ready whereas the latter are still playing and not all teams know which league they will be in!
According to the document these are only proposed start dates -“ subject to change in accordance with government guidance and approval for paying spectators “.
IMO non league would be an ideal place to trial spectators returning to matches, far better than a race meeting, 2 cricket matches and a snooker tournament which is what has been suggested so far.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: October

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:43 pm

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:Has everyone been removed from furlough now do we know? I presume Alun has
I doubt it ..It makes sense to keep them on at this time as they can go on part time and still get paid furlough

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: October

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:44 pm

dfc4me wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:18 pm
It has been announced today.

Step 1/2 - 5th September
Step 3/4 - 19th September
Step 5/6 - 5th September

I don't actually know the logic behind EvoStik starting later than National League given the former got null and voided and are ready whereas the latter are still playing and not all teams know which league they will be in!
According to the document these are only proposed start dates -“ subject to change in accordance with government guidance and approval for paying spectators “.
IMO non league would be an ideal place to trial spectators returning to matches, far better than a race meeting, 2 cricket matches and a snooker tournament which is what has been suggested so far.
What is your reasoning for that conclusion???

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Re: October

Post by spen666 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:41 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm
Whenever it does happen - and I don't believe it will happen by October - I'd say that home fans only is a sensible policy - it stops potential infections spreading around the country if an outbreak were tracked to a football game. Advance tickets only as well - and most likely you'd restrict fans moving around the stadium. So you buy a ticket for the tinshed, or the seats, and open end, or the clubhouse... and that's it. You can't move between them (Individual stands only in many clubs). Then if you have an outbreak, you can track and trace everyone in that stand.

How you get people to leave in a distanced manner is anyone's guess, and would require real management by stewards.

Honestly, i'd just delay the season until we can do it.
At most grounds in the NLN, it is either not practical or possible to enforce this. Grounds with 4 seperate stands with seperate entrances/ exits are easy, but at for example BM or Spennymoor both of which only have 2 sets of turnstiles and fans have to walk round the ground, it seems to me that this could not be enforced.

Also, what about refreshments and toilets. You would need seperate refreshments and toilets for each segregated area.

Old Git
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Re: October

Post by Old Git » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:05 pm

spen666 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:41 pm
H1987 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm
Whenever it does happen - and I don't believe it will happen by October - I'd say that home fans only is a sensible policy - it stops potential infections spreading around the country if an outbreak were tracked to a football game. Advance tickets only as well - and most likely you'd restrict fans moving around the stadium. So you buy a ticket for the tinshed, or the seats, and open end, or the clubhouse... and that's it. You can't move between them (Individual stands only in many clubs). Then if you have an outbreak, you can track and trace everyone in that stand.

How you get people to leave in a distanced manner is anyone's guess, and would require real management by stewards.

Honestly, i'd just delay the season until we can do it.
At most grounds in the NLN, it is either not practical or possible to enforce this. Grounds with 4 seperate stands with seperate entrances/ exits are easy, but at for example BM or Spennymoor both of which only have 2 sets of turnstiles and fans have to walk round the ground, it seems to me that this could not be enforced.

Also, what about refreshments and toilets. You would need seperate refreshments and toilets for each segregated area.
Won’t be a problem at Spennymoor they have an excellent record of organising football matches. Who could ever forget the Fencegate Fiasco. If things go wrong simply blame it on those pesky Darlo fans. Wonder what ever happened to the investigation in to that. Presumably Covid has scuppered any chance of that ever being satisfactorily resolved.

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Re: October

Post by Mister e » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:09 am

Old Git wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:05 pm
spen666 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:41 pm
H1987 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm
Whenever it does happen - and I don't believe it will happen by October - I'd say that home fans only is a sensible policy - it stops potential infections spreading around the country if an outbreak were tracked to a football game. Advance tickets only as well - and most likely you'd restrict fans moving around the stadium. So you buy a ticket for the tinshed, or the seats, and open end, or the clubhouse... and that's it. You can't move between them (Individual stands only in many clubs). Then if you have an outbreak, you can track and trace everyone in that stand.

How you get people to leave in a distanced manner is anyone's guess, and would require real management by stewards.

Honestly, i'd just delay the season until we can do it.
At most grounds in the NLN, it is either not practical or possible to enforce this. Grounds with 4 seperate stands with seperate entrances/ exits are easy, but at for example BM or Spennymoor both of which only have 2 sets of turnstiles and fans have to walk round the ground, it seems to me that this could not be enforced.

Also, what about refreshments and toilets. You would need seperate refreshments and toilets for each segregated area.
Won’t be a problem at Spennymoor they have an excellent record of organising football matches. Who could ever forget the Fencegate Fiasco. If things go wrong simply blame it on those pesky Darlo fans. Wonder what ever happened to the investigation in to that. Presumably Covid has scuppered any chance of that ever being satisfactorily resolved.
They covered it up using red tape 😄😄😄

Vodka_Vic
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Re: October

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:16 am

Investigation carried out and Darlo fans exonerated from any blame. Not heard what has happened to Spenny, although I presume that those volunteers/employees in charge of the website/Twitter feed who wrote inflammatory comments blaming Dario fans will now be disciplined by the club. Not holding my breath.
Last edited by Vodka_Vic on Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: October

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:35 am

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:16 am
Investigation carried out and Dario fans exonerated from any blame. Not heard what has happened to Spenny, although I presume that those volunteers/employees in charge of the website/Twitter feed who wrote inflammatory comments blaming Dario fans will now be disciplined by the club. Not holding my breath.
I heard similar however it would be nice to get something official regarding this, as in what did the investigation make of it all? What can be learnt? Because somebody could have been hurt, and if nothing is learnt somebody could be hurt if it happens again - not that I would go.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Darlopartisan
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Re: October

Post by Darlopartisan » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:21 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:35 am
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:16 am
Investigation carried out and Dario fans exonerated from any blame. Not heard what has happened to Spenny, although I presume that those volunteers/employees in charge of the website/Twitter feed who wrote inflammatory comments blaming Dario fans will now be disciplined by the club. Not holding my breath.
I heard similar however it would be nice to get something official regarding this, as in what did the investigation make of it all? What can be learnt? Because somebody could have been hurt, and if nothing is learnt somebody could be hurt if it happens again - not that I would go.
I decided after the last game there I would not be going back to the away game at Spennymoor, it was just a shambles and dangerous, the blame game afterwards was pathetic . So although I want to watch my team, I will not be attending that fixture.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: October

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 am

Yes - football should be enjoyable, that’s what we pay for and the events of New Years Day were far from enjoyable.

Being crammed up like sardines, watching the fence carry on, which despite the rights and wrongs wouldn’t have happened if the game had been ticketed and stewarded in a proper manner.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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quakersfan
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Re: October

Post by quakersfan » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:56 pm

With a large percentage of older fans I can see many of these not attending until a vaccine appears. Also the Arena would have worked well for us plenty of social distancing could have been achieved.

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Re: October

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:50 pm

I think plenty will be wanting to attend and it's also a relatively low level of risk at this kind of outdoor event, especially if some social distancing is involved and maybe even with people wearing masks along with other safeguards. There are several issues with the Arena: Mowden Park are now facing a major crisis, the Sports Village idea has collapsed, the pitch is absolutely dreadful with no word on when (or if) they will be installing 3G, they still hadn't resolved the crucial primacy of fixtures matter and we have an agreement with Darlington Rugby Club. Everything is stacked against it including the fact that it is a dreadful experience with 1,500 in that giant, rusting, cash-eating hulk.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: October

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:40 pm

The best thing about the Arena situation is that it’s nothing to do with us.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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LoidLucan
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Re: October

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:35 am

Would be good if this dire training-ground TV football helped to drive a few out of their armchairs for a spot of live local football in the fresh air. I can normally hardly stand ten minutes of the telly torture that's been served up recently.

onewayup
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Re: October

Post by onewayup » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:52 am

I am another who through the shinnanigans of the spennymoor hierarchy after fence gate won't ever attend their ground again, it was their miscalculations that caused the problem then they tried to blame innocent Darlington fans, who were thrust into a chaotic situation by badly organised stewarding.

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