Latest friendly

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Piggy_
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Latest friendly

Post by Piggy_ » Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:28 pm

We lost 4-2 to Boros under 23 side at Rockcliffe

JE93
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by JE93 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:19 pm

Report on the official site sounds like we fashioned ourselves a fair few decent chances. But looking at the team below that played for us. Still no game time for either Storey or Laing. Looking forward to seeing one of them alongside Hunt see who stakes a claim for the other CB slot.

Starting team: 

Triallist: McMahon, Hunt, Atkinson, Liddle, Rivers, Reid, Hatfield, Campbell, Charman, Maguire

Half time subs: on: Hedley, Donawa. off: McMahon, Rivers

60: on: Watson, triallist. Off: Campbell, Hunt

75 on Chidanykia (academy), off Charman

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:37 pm

Wonder who the triallist was?

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:Wonder who the triallist was?
Looked like the same lad who played at Fleetwood

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Old Git
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:57 pm

Looked like Tyrone O’Neill laid on their 4th goal. Someone can be overheard saying “Great ball Ty”
Early days but still not convinced by Johnny Saltmer in goal. Hope we are looking at other options because I don’t like what I’ve seen so far. Yes I know that is based on very little evidence and he may make me look foolish for saying so. Hope he does it is just my initial opinion.

Darlogramps
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Latest friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Old Git wrote:Looked like Tyrone O’Neill laid on their 4th goal. Someone can be overheard saying “Great ball Ty”
Early days but still not convinced by Johnny Saltmer in goal. Hope we are looking at other options because I don’t like what I’ve seen so far. Yes I know that is based on very little evidence and he may make me look foolish for saying so. Hope he does it is just my initial opinion.
I mean, given the amount we’ve seen of him amounts to two highlights packages, I’m struggling to see how anyone can form any sort of judgement on a player, based on so little, particularly when you’re not watching him live but via a computer screen.

It’s always funny watching people try and form opinions based on pre-season, particularly this season where all we get is a highlights package and a biased club match report.
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:15 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:01 pm
Old Git wrote:Looked like Tyrone O’Neill laid on their 4th goal. Someone can be overheard saying “Great ball Ty”
Early days but still not convinced by Johnny Saltmer in goal. Hope we are looking at other options because I don’t like what I’ve seen so far. Yes I know that is based on very little evidence and he may make me look foolish for saying so. Hope he does it is just my initial opinion.
I mean, given the amount we’ve seen of him amounts to two highlights packages, I’m struggling to see how anyone can form any sort of judgement on a player, based on so little, particularly when you’re not watching him live but via a computer screen.

It’s always funny watching people try and form opinions based on pre-season, particularly this season where all we get is a highlights package and a biased club match report.
Please read my comments again as I made it clear it was only an initial feeling. The game is all about opinions and I hope he proves me wrong. After all you are not exactly shy at offering yours are you. Please don’t say your opinions are more thought out and rational than mine because they are not. It seems to me that you just think yours are superior because you are so much cleverer than anybody else.

Darlo_Rob
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:05 pm

Out of interest which ofthe goals is his fault. The penalty is obviously a dive and the fourth is a mix up, so you can argue he could have done better, but it looks like he’s getting there before the ball is poked past him. He has no chance for goals two and three.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:20 pm

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:01 pm
Old Git wrote:Looked like Tyrone O’Neill laid on their 4th goal. Someone can be overheard saying “Great ball Ty”
Early days but still not convinced by Johnny Saltmer in goal. Hope we are looking at other options because I don’t like what I’ve seen so far. Yes I know that is based on very little evidence and he may make me look foolish for saying so. Hope he does it is just my initial opinion.
I mean, given the amount we’ve seen of him amounts to two highlights packages, I’m struggling to see how anyone can form any sort of judgement on a player, based on so little, particularly when you’re not watching him live but via a computer screen.

It’s always funny watching people try and form opinions based on pre-season, particularly this season where all we get is a highlights package and a biased club match report.
Please read my comments again as I made it clear it was only an initial feeling. The game is all about opinions and I hope he proves me wrong. After all you are not exactly shy at offering yours are you. Please don’t say your opinions are more thought out and rational than mine because they are not. It seems to me that you just think yours are superior because you are so much cleverer than anybody else.
Blimey, talk about an overreaction.

You’re perfectly entitled to form your “initial feelings” as much as you want. But if you decide to express your opinions, then I’m entitled to express my “initial feelings” on your opinion too.

All I said was I’m surprised you’ve managed to form an opinion based on what you yourself concede is very little footage.

If we think about it logically, so far we have 11 or so mins of Fleetwood highlights, plus a couple of minutes of goals highlights from today. Of that, Saltmer will feature in about 90 secs to 2 mins at a very rough guess.

So is it particularly fair to say “I hope we’re looking at other options”, and “I don’t like what I see” based on a couple of minutes of online highlights? Particularly when these are two pre-season games and none of the squad have played in six months.

I’d say give him a chance, rather than rushing to an “initial feeling” based on two minutes of internet footage.
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:50 pm

Gramps the fact is trialsists only have a very short time to impress to earn a contract so initial impressions are important. Obviously it is the opinion of managers and coaches that is important not mine but any trialist is under pressure to perform.
We are only going to have one senior goalkeeper this season so it is crucial to bring in the right person. Maybe Saltmer is the right choice but of course we need to look at other options if there are any doubts.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by lo36789 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:11 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:50 pm
but of course we need to look at other options if there are any doubts
Let's be clear - if Armstrong has any doubts which we have absolutely no idea on really.

I thought he made some smart saves against Fleetwood - he seems to have been left quite exposed based on some of the clips. Think that is being recognised as a product of the different stages of preseason we are at with our opponents.

Armstrong was clear that there was plenty of interest and he has obviously identified an early favourite - it is too early to suggest he is persisting with Saltmer - we have only had two games.

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Latest friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:35 pm

Old Git wrote:Gramps the fact is trialsists only have a very short time to impress to earn a contract so initial impressions are important. Obviously it is the opinion of managers and coaches that is important not mine but any trialist is under pressure to perform.
We are only going to have one senior goalkeeper this season so it is crucial to bring in the right person. Maybe Saltmer is the right choice but of course we need to look at other options if there are any doubts.
What specifically hasn’t impressed you about Saltmer?

From the limited minutes of online footage we have, in which he features for a couple of minutes, what is it that hasn’t impressed you?
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:35 pm

To be specific 8 goals conceded.

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:39 pm

I was wondering about that too. Old Git said that he felt Saltmer hadn't commanded his area well enough v Fleetwood, but that's the sort of thing that a highlights package wouldn't pick up.

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Latest friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:35 pm

Old Git wrote:To be specific 8 goals conceded.
That’s not specific at all. Not when you look at it in context. How many of those eight goals are you holding him accountable for? Genuine question.

Do the defence have any responsibility, in your opinion or were they faultless? For context, We have been playing a full back at centre back.

More context, match one was against a side who finished last year in the League One play-offs, who were much further on in their preparations.

And again, our players hadn’t played a proper match of football in six months until a week ago.

I’ll be honest, I was expecting something more specific and technical than simply stating the number of goals conceded.

Do you have anything more specific, or is the eight goals conceded your only reason?
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Latest friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:41 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:I was wondering about that too. Old Git said that he felt Saltmer hadn't commanded his area well enough v Fleetwood, but that's the sort of thing that a highlights package wouldn't pick up.
I hadn’t seen those comments from the Fleetwood game.

Based on that, my fear is Old Git has already made up his mind and will spend the rest of pre-season trying to validate that view, rather than look objectively.

It makes for tedious discussion when people entrench themselves for fearing of looking weak if they change their mind (e.g. there’s an amazing example when lo36789 refused to admit the Northern League have dominated the FA Vase: https://bit.ly/2QXITjd

As you say, you would only pick up command of your area from being there, watching him direct defenders and so on. A single camera set-up on the halfway line won’t pick up communication.
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:24 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:41 pm
Vodka_Vic wrote:I was wondering about that too. Old Git said that he felt Saltmer hadn't commanded his area well enough v Fleetwood, but that's the sort of thing that a highlights package wouldn't pick up.
I hadn’t seen those comments from the Fleetwood game.

Based on that, my fear is Old Git has already made up his mind and will spend the rest of pre-season trying to validate that view, rather than look objectively.

It makes for tedious discussion when people entrench themselves for fearing of looking weak if they change their mind (e.g. there’s an amazing example when lo36789 refused to admit the Northern League have dominated the FA Vase: https://bit.ly/2QXITjd

As you say, you would only pick up command of your area from being there, watching him direct defenders and so on. A single camera set-up on the halfway line won’t pick up communication.
Absolutely ridiculous comments I have not entrenched my position at all and have been at pains to say these are only initial opinions. I simply feel that the position of goalkeeper is pivotal to any teams success and I remain to be convinced of Saltmer’s ability to be what we require. He is a trialist so will be judged on his performances and from what I have seen he has yet to convince. It is the judgement of Armstrong that matters. I hope the lad does well but I think he needs to up his game based on the limited evidence available. Obviously he will be watched in training as well and AA will make a decision. It would be daft not to consider other options.
I have been watching football for over 50 years and have experience of scouting for Football League clubs so I have some knowledge of the game. What I am saying is we really need to bring in a quality keeper to supplement our squad and as yet this lad has not convinced me. He may yet prove to be what we need but we would be remiss if we failed to look at other options.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:01 pm

Old Git you may well be right, but you haven’t given any evidence to back your posts up which is the point Gramps is making. From what I’ve seen he’s a decent shot stopper, but if you’re not one of those as a goalkeeper there’s little point in playing. The more important attributes that set you aside would be things like and this is by no means exhaustive, aerial ability, command of area, communication, handling and decision making. From what you’ve seen have you got any feeling on all of these areas, because if you have I must be missing something.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by D_F_C » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:04 am

Massively encouraged by the highlights of the boro game. Looked like we had plenty of chances. I think Charman looked particularly sharp. I think most expected that maguire would be the main man, but its hard to say. Trying not to get too excited about the squad but it looks really good. Noticed that Holmes wasn't involved today, must be a precaution due to the knock he picked up. Anyone know why Storey or Laing aren't involved yet? Wheatley not there either.

I have absolutely no idea what our best team is

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Quaker85
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:29 am

Laing and Storey haven’t featured in the two games we’ve played and from the highlights, it looked like Watson was filling in there so I’m not surprised we’ve conceded 8 goals against quality opponents.

I’ve no idea whether or not the keeper is any good but surely the above has to be taken into account?

At the end of the day it’s Alun’s decision and I trust him to get it right.


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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:58 am

D_F_C wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:04 am
Massively encouraged by the highlights of the boro game. Looked like we had plenty of chances. I think Charman looked particularly sharp. I think most expected that maguire would be the main man, but its hard to say. Trying not to get too excited about the squad but it looks really good. Noticed that Holmes wasn't involved today, must be a precaution due to the knock he picked up. Anyone know why Storey or Laing aren't involved yet? Wheatley not there either.

I have absolutely no idea what our best team is
At the risk of being shot down in flames for daring to express an opinion on such limited evidence I formed the same impression as you that Charman is an exciting prospect who could potentially be a great signing. Took his goal really well and could be a real handful at this level especially if he is out to prove a point.
As you say no sign yet of Storey or Laing and as Quaker 85 points out could be a factor in conceding 8 goals in 2 games. Just feel we have lacked a good keeper since Bartlett left and it is crucial we get this sorted out if we are going to be realistic promotion candidates.

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Latest friendly

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:35 am

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:41 pm
Vodka_Vic wrote:I was wondering about that too. Old Git said that he felt Saltmer hadn't commanded his area well enough v Fleetwood, but that's the sort of thing that a highlights package wouldn't pick up.
I hadn’t seen those comments from the Fleetwood game.

Based on that, my fear is Old Git has already made up his mind and will spend the rest of pre-season trying to validate that view, rather than look objectively.

It makes for tedious discussion when people entrench themselves for fearing of looking weak if they change their mind (e.g. there’s an amazing example when lo36789 refused to admit the Northern League have dominated the FA Vase: https://bit.ly/2QXITjd

As you say, you would only pick up command of your area from being there, watching him direct defenders and so on. A single camera set-up on the halfway line won’t pick up communication.
Absolutely ridiculous comments I have not entrenched my position at all and have been at pains to say these are only initial opinions. I simply feel that the position of goalkeeper is pivotal to any teams success and I remain to be convinced of Saltmer’s ability to be what we require. He is a trialist so will be judged on his performances and from what I have seen he has yet to convince. It is the judgement of Armstrong that matters. I hope the lad does well but I think he needs to up his game based on the limited evidence available. Obviously he will be watched in training as well and AA will make a decision. It would be daft not to consider other options.
I have been watching football for over 50 years and have experience of scouting for Football League clubs so I have some knowledge of the game. What I am saying is we really need to bring in a quality keeper to supplement our squad and as yet this lad has not convinced me. He may yet prove to be what we need but we would be remiss if we failed to look at other options.
But what exactly though? You won’t say what it is that you’re not convinced by. Is it his shot-stopping, his positioning, his communication, his organisation, how he handles crosses? What is it exactly you’re not convinced by?

All you’ve said is the comically vague “Eight goals conceded”, and several people on here have already explained why that’s a bad justification, given the contextual factors.

That’s why I think you’ve already made up your mind, because you’re being critical of him but won’t say why.

Across the two highlights packages we’ve seen Saltmer for a couple of minutes, and none of us will have seen him in person. So I’m just curious how you can confidently state your “initial opinion” based on so little. It’s like me saying you’re a bad scout after reading one sentence of your report.

If you don’t rate him, that’s your prerogative. But don’t get defensive when people ask you why.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:39 am

Interesting that our second goal was scored by the triallist but no name!

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:41 am

I do feel you're digging yourself a hole a bit here Old Git. People are just asking for evidence for your claims so they can engage in a reasonable debate. If someone was asked to provide video evidence of Charman being sharp then there's plenty of it yesterday, whereas you'd struggle to provide evidence of Saltmer being poor. And if you base it on a 'gut feeling' then say you used to be a football scout, then I pity some of the careers you sabotaged due to a lack of evidence.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Old Git » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:37 am

Ok I’ll shut up about the keeper. Perhaps I am doing the lad down unnecessarily but it is important to bring in the right one as whoever it is will be expected to play every game if fit. We have cover for other positions and personally I would like to see us look at other options. Our recruitment of keepers has not been great in the last two seasons. Really hope we can nail it this time.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:52 am

It’s funny communicating with Old Git - because when you call him Old Git you feel like you’re insulting him ;)
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Re: Latest friendly

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:57 am

I think we all agree that our recruitment of keepers needs improving. However, AA did admit he rushed it last year and that he'll take his time, using the loan route if need be. I think Saltmer will get his chance, but if found wanting then we'll go the loan route. A tough one though, as sometimes they impress on loan or trial but as soon as you give them a deal the they revert to type.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by JE93 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:22 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:29 am
Laing and Storey haven’t featured in the two games we’ve played and from the highlights, it looked like Watson was filling in there so I’m not surprised we’ve conceded 8 goals against quality opponents.

I’ve no idea whether or not the keeper is any good but surely the above has to be taken into account?

At the end of the day it’s Alun’s decision and I trust him to get it right.


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Was wondering where both were. In Armstrong's interview after the Boro friendly he says Storey coming back from a Hernia and Laing coming back from a groin injury.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by onewayup » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:04 pm

How can anyone give a true evaluation of the keeper after just 2 games, both games against higher opposition who have been in training for a month, mystified at comments given he is a trialist ,if he sees the comments he might just say stuff it, give him a chance to build his confidence ,alun knows what he's after and I,m sure he will do his absolute best to get the right keeper in, whether that be a permanent or a loan. Settle down its still early days.

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Re: Latest friendly

Post by spen666 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:42 pm

In judging a keeper based on highlipackages of 2 defeats, you are going to see an emphasis on his worst bits as the highlights show the goals conceded.

Its unfair on player to judge him on 2 short highlights packages of games where the team lost.


That said, there does seem to be a shortage of good goalkeepers at this level. Not sure I have seen any "complete " keepers at this level.

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