Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

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Darlofan97
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Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:26 am

Just discovered this on the Hartlepool website, which makes for an interesting reading regarding the implications on ground capacity:
Our next key stage protocol is Stage 5, which allows for the safe return of spectators to competitive sport. You will be aware that pilot testing of fixed spectator numbers is currently taking place across a number of sports. Following these pilots, it is envisaged that further guidance will emerge over the exact protocols that each club will have to implement to allow spectators to safely return within their revised capacity constraints.

In terms of our own safe working capacity, we are currently working through this process with various certified contractors and in accordance with National League guidance and briefings we have had over the last couple of weeks. This will allow us to agree an acceptable capacity with the Local Authority. The calculation is not a straight-forward percentage of our usual ground capacity, nor a fixed number which is given to us – it is driven by a number of factors around our ground’s unique configuration. As soon as we have agreed our safe working capacity, we will share this information with you as it will drive our match day logistics and ticketing arrangements.
This is interesting, as it appears that the calculation of ground capacity for clubs at our level (and the one above) aren't going to be a 'blanket' percentage or figure. I wonder if this impacts the "17%" figure given by DJ a few weeks ago when discussing the return to the Arena, or if this figure has been given by the Local Authority?

Either way, I do hope we receive the green light from the National League to play at the Arena next season however, it's been over three weeks on since a formal request was submitted to the National League and it appears that we have still not heard anything.

spen666
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by spen666 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:26 am
Just discovered this on the Hartlepool website, which makes for an interesting reading regarding the implications on ground capacity:
Our next key stage protocol is Stage 5, which allows for the safe return of spectators to competitive sport. You will be aware that pilot testing of fixed spectator numbers is currently taking place across a number of sports. Following these pilots, it is envisaged that further guidance will emerge over the exact protocols that each club will have to implement to allow spectators to safely return within their revised capacity constraints.

In terms of our own safe working capacity, we are currently working through this process with various certified contractors and in accordance with National League guidance and briefings we have had over the last couple of weeks. This will allow us to agree an acceptable capacity with the Local Authority. The calculation is not a straight-forward percentage of our usual ground capacity, nor a fixed number which is given to us – it is driven by a number of factors around our ground’s unique configuration. As soon as we have agreed our safe working capacity, we will share this information with you as it will drive our match day logistics and ticketing arrangements.
This is interesting, as it appears that the calculation of ground capacity for clubs at our level (and the one above) aren't going to be a 'blanket' percentage or figure. I wonder if this impacts the "17%" figure given by DJ a few weeks ago when discussing the return to the Arena, or if this figure has been given by the Local Authority?

Either way, I do hope we receive the green light from the National League to play at the Arena next season however, it's been over three weeks on since a formal request was submitted to the National League and it appears that we have still not heard anything.


The most likely scenario is a fixed % of ground capacity ( not minimum criteria for that level as is case with steps 3-7) with reductions made for example where limited entrances or exits makes social distancing more difficult.

I do not think 17% figure will be used. Already, they are talking re 30% and I expect that to rise, even if 30% is initial figure.

I also expect there may be either a national ban on away fans or imposed by clubs.

I know for example that Leyton Orient are planning on their being no away fans and utilising the away section to socially distance fans.

However until the government and the FA give further guidance it is all guesswork.

lo36789
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:11 pm

spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm
I know for example that Leyton Orient are planning on their being no away fans and utilising the away section to socially distance fans.
Can Leyton Orient unilaterally make that decision?

spen666
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by spen666 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:31 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:11 pm
spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm
I know for example that Leyton Orient are planning on their being no away fans and utilising the away section to socially distance fans.
Can Leyton Orient unilaterally make that decision?
I think they can for league games but not for Cup games. I would be surprised if Orient had bottle to challenge FA if not allowed

Remember Luton banned away fans for a few years but got kicked out of League Cup for not allowing away fans.


That said, I am sure the FA/EFL won't be forcing clubs to admit away fans in current situation

lo36789
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:05 pm

spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:31 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:11 pm
spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm
I know for example that Leyton Orient are planning on their being no away fans and utilising the away section to socially distance fans.
Can Leyton Orient unilaterally make that decision?
I think they can for league games but not for Cup games. I would be surprised if Orient had bottle to challenge FA if not allowed

Remember Luton banned away fans for a few years but got kicked out of League Cup for not allowing away fans.


That said, I am sure the FA/EFL won't be forcing clubs to admit away fans in current situation
The FA are. It is mandated in the NLS guidance that 15% allocation must be given to away fans in line with FA Comp.

spen666
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by spen666 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:38 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:05 pm
spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:31 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:11 pm
spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm
I know for example that Leyton Orient are planning on their being no away fans and utilising the away section to socially distance fans.
Can Leyton Orient unilaterally make that decision?
I think they can for league games but not for Cup games. I would be surprised if Orient had bottle to challenge FA if not allowed

Remember Luton banned away fans for a few years but got kicked out of League Cup for not allowing away fans.


That said, I am sure the FA/EFL won't be forcing clubs to admit away fans in current situation
The FA are. It is mandated in the NLS guidance that 15% allocation must be given to away fans in line with FA Comp.
I know that, but in current situation I doubt the FA will enforce that. If it is guidance, it is unenforceable in any event

Darlofan97
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:16 pm

spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:26 am
Just discovered this on the Hartlepool website, which makes for an interesting reading regarding the implications on ground capacity:
Our next key stage protocol is Stage 5, which allows for the safe return of spectators to competitive sport. You will be aware that pilot testing of fixed spectator numbers is currently taking place across a number of sports. Following these pilots, it is envisaged that further guidance will emerge over the exact protocols that each club will have to implement to allow spectators to safely return within their revised capacity constraints.

In terms of our own safe working capacity, we are currently working through this process with various certified contractors and in accordance with National League guidance and briefings we have had over the last couple of weeks. This will allow us to agree an acceptable capacity with the Local Authority. The calculation is not a straight-forward percentage of our usual ground capacity, nor a fixed number which is given to us – it is driven by a number of factors around our ground’s unique configuration. As soon as we have agreed our safe working capacity, we will share this information with you as it will drive our match day logistics and ticketing arrangements.
This is interesting, as it appears that the calculation of ground capacity for clubs at our level (and the one above) aren't going to be a 'blanket' percentage or figure. I wonder if this impacts the "17%" figure given by DJ a few weeks ago when discussing the return to the Arena, or if this figure has been given by the Local Authority?

Either way, I do hope we receive the green light from the National League to play at the Arena next season however, it's been over three weeks on since a formal request was submitted to the National League and it appears that we have still not heard anything.
The most likely scenario is a fixed % of ground capacity ( not minimum criteria for that level as is case with steps 3-7) with reductions made for example where limited entrances or exits makes social distancing more difficult.
The information above clearly contradicts your comment of a fixed % of ground capacity with reductions subsequently made based on limited entrances/exits.
The calculation is not a straight-forward percentage of our usual ground capacity, nor a fixed number which is given to us – it is driven by a number of factors around our ground’s unique configuration.
There will also be a range of other factors than exits and entrances taken in to account to, such as enclosed spaces, toilet facilities, car parking, public transport usage, proximity to town centre etc.

You'd like to think it would be looked at a lot more flexibly, rather than set percentages as a guideline with a reduction then applied. That would defeat the whole object of each stadia being individually assessed by the LA.

Local authorities should be looking at putting together report, calculating how many individuals can safely enter a stadium given all of the above factors. Rather than, can 30% of stadium capacity attend safely, if not what deductions have to be made.

What then happens if more than 30% of the capacity can attend safely? Do local authorities ignore that to the detriment of clubs who can safely manage more than 30% capacity in to the ground?

Individual club circumstances should be looked at rather than the blanket measures we have seen lower down (probably because of just how many grassroots clubs there are).

Darlofan97
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:08 pm

Bradford Park Avenue, who have a stadium capacity of 3,500, announced on Friday that their stadium capacity for the new season as 522.

This includes a 10% allocation which has to be given to away fans (i.e. 52 tickets). This leaves the home attendance capacity as just 470.

Although this isn't a 'one size fits all' approach, it's an indicator as to what we may expect.

We need the Arena.

spen666
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by spen666 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:37 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:08 pm
Bradford Park Avenue, who have a stadium capacity of 3,500, announced on Friday that their stadium capacity for the new season as 522.

This includes a 10% allocation which has to be given to away fans (i.e. 52 tickets). This leaves the home attendance capacity as just 470.

Although this isn't a 'one size fits all' approach, it's an indicator as to what we may expect.

We need the Arena.
Not sure how BPA have managed to announce this figure when the Government and FA haven't yet announced the rules on capacities.

522 on a capacity of 3500 is less than 15%, so even less than the 17% being talked about.

Darlofan97
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:01 pm

spen666 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:37 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:08 pm
Bradford Park Avenue, who have a stadium capacity of 3,500, announced on Friday that their stadium capacity for the new season as 522.

This includes a 10% allocation which has to be given to away fans (i.e. 52 tickets). This leaves the home attendance capacity as just 470.

Although this isn't a 'one size fits all' approach, it's an indicator as to what we may expect.

We need the Arena.
Not sure how BPA have managed to announce this figure when the Government and FA haven't yet announced the rules on capacities.

522 on a capacity of 3500 is less than 15%, so even less than the 17% being talked about.
Do I need to spell it out to you?

It’s evidently clear that capacities of stadia are being calculated by local authorities on an individual basis.

The BPA article also alludes to guidance from the National League and also consultation with the Sports Ground Safety Authority. So maybe clubs have access to guidance and information not yet made public. We are less than 4 weeks before the new season starts, after all.

It’s less than the 17% talked about because it’s now clear that the capacity of any stadium is subject to an individual assessment by the LA. There is no blanket approach.

H1987
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by H1987 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:11 pm

Could just be an assesment of what each capacity is capable of holding responsibly distanced fans.

Blackwell would undoubtedly be low. The seats hold just shy of 600 normally, so you'd get about 200 fans in there... and realistically maybe 700 ish standing all around the rest of the ground... but you'd really have to monitor the levels in the tinshed. It'd be no good if everyone just piled in there if it starts raining (which you know would end up happening).

I loathe the arena but it clearly can hold far more fans. I am heavily skeptical over the kinds of attendances we will get there, even assuming we were permissed to have something like 5,000 fans within it.

lo36789
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:24 pm

It's pretty obvious that the FAs 30% is very generous when compared against LA authority given the figures that clubs are officially declaring.

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Ground Capacity - Arena or BM

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:32 pm

The way Coronavirus 19 cases are increasing, parts of the country will be in lockdown long before the season is due to start. That could end the chances of fans being allowed into games & games being postponed.

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