Support package announced

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Quaker85
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Re: Support package announced

Post by Quaker85 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:23 am

Darlofan97 wrote:I could be wrong, but I should imagine that these grants are tax free amounts, whereas any sale of match-day tickets would be subject to VAT deductions.

£30k per month seems like enough, as long as it continues until the end of the season or whenever fans are allowed back in, whichever is earlier.

This funding, coupled with other income sources, should suffice. Nonetheless, if there was ever a time to continue to support the club financially (if you can) then this is it.
You’re right about the grants being tax free (technically outside the scope of vat) provided the grantor gives them freely and without conditions attached which is the case here.

In normal circumstances the club would need to gross £36k to pocket £30k net.


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quakersfan
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Re: Support package announced

Post by quakersfan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:27 am

£30k say over 10 months would I’d imagine cover virtually all our costs be interested in hearing what DJ thinks and how long its for.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Support package announced

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:52 am

It currently lasts for 3 months and DJ is happy enough with it.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Support package announced

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:22 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:59 pm
I could be wrong, but I should imagine that these grants are tax free amounts, whereas any sale of match-day tickets would be subject to VAT deductions.

£30k per month seems like enough, as long as it continues until the end of the season or whenever fans are allowed back in, whichever is earlier.

This funding, coupled with other income sources, should suffice. Nonetheless, if there was ever a time to continue to support the club financially (if you can) then this is it.
Yes as I understand it VAT free, but it will count on the P&L for corporation tax - should we make a profit of course.
#Arenaherewecome

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: Support package announced

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:49 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:59 pm
I could be wrong, but I should imagine that these grants are tax free amounts, whereas any sale of match-day tickets would be subject to VAT deductions.

£30k per month seems like enough, as long as it continues until the end of the season or whenever fans are allowed back in, whichever is earlier.

This funding, coupled with other income sources, should suffice. Nonetheless, if there was ever a time to continue to support the club financially (if you can) then this is it.
Yes as I understand it VAT free, but it will count on the P&L for corporation tax - should we make a profit of course.
It will be treated no differently to the job retention scheme grants in as much as it will be shown as taxable income.

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poppyfield
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Re: Support package announced

Post by poppyfield » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am

This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
Help get the club back to Darlo by helping to spread the word about the "Back to Darlo!" fund. The image on the right will be constantly updated with the latest total so please feel free to use the image link below the thermometer on your own signatures, blogs, websites, etc.Image
Image link: http://www.mydarlo.co.uk/img/BTD-therm-350x100.jpg

darlo2001uk
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Re: Support package announced

Post by darlo2001uk » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:06 pm

poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
The grant might be the least of his concerns after reading that...…..

bga
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Re: Support package announced

Post by bga » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:13 pm

poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
Wow lights touch paper.................

bga
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Re: Support package announced

Post by bga » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:35 pm

I don't recall exactly what the Government said the Grant was supposed to cover. If it was solely "Replace lost gate revenue" the Maidstone Owner certianly has a point about how the National League have decided to allocate it.

https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/na ... -nat-64105

National League's own press statement refer to the funding covering "Lost gate revenue." What a muddle!

Mister e
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Re: Support package announced

Post by Mister e » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:43 pm

I did state yesterday I thought Oliver dowden had connections with boreham wood.

spen666
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Re: Support package announced

Post by spen666 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:02 pm

darlo2001uk wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:06 pm
poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
The grant might be the least of his concerns after reading that...…..
Wow indeed.

Wonder if he will regret posting that?

Wonder if the FA/ National League will bring disrepute charges over that. ( Fine them £108K?) Its not the sort of thing you expect to see on an official club website/ communication.

They certainly seem to be a little miffed at someone giving them £36k per month for 3 months . Imagine being so ungrateful at someone giving you a minimum of £108k?

al_quaker
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Re: Support package announced

Post by al_quaker » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:06 pm

Seeing as you've reappared on here spen666, fancy answering the questions asked of you in other threads?

al_quaker
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Re: Support package announced

Post by al_quaker » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:41 pm

poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
While I think a lot of the criticisms are warranted, I'm surprised a club has put out a statement with such allegations. Be interesting to see what happens from here...

darlo2001uk
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Re: Support package announced

Post by darlo2001uk » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:56 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:41 pm
poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
While I think a lot of the criticisms are warranted, I'm surprised a club has put out a statement with such allegations. Be interesting to see what happens from here...
Lawyers in Maidstone will be rubbing their hands with glee...…..

dfcdfcdfc
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Re: Support package announced

Post by dfcdfcdfc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:26 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:41 pm
poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
While I think a lot of the criticisms are warranted, I'm surprised a club has put out a statement with such allegations. Be interesting to see what happens from here...
I think a lot of the criticism is warranted. While he may be weak on tact and diplomacy I can't fault his logic. However, as someone else pointed out Curzon Ashton don't get big crowds but they have lost other forms of income. Think the disproportionate division between national and n/s is the biggest source of discontent and this will not go away while each of the op divisions clubs have a vote each and only 4/5 each for the two lower divisions. Surely something like 3 each for the top division sides and 1 for each of the lower division sides would be more equitable.

My opinion
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Re: Support package announced

Post by My opinion » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:51 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:41 pm
poppyfield wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:41 am
This puts a different lights on the grants.
http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2020/1 ... -of-grant/
While I think a lot of the criticisms are warranted, I'm surprised a club has put out a statement with such allegations. Be interesting to see what happens from here...
I think most of the criticisms are warranted.
If the term"lost gate revenue" was used to imply that ALL clubs in the three leagues would receive money for loss of income at the gate, then why are some clubs receiving more per missing fan than others.. What was the point of all the CEO's and owners filling in forms for fair compensation for the figures on the forms to be ignored.
I think that DJ has a more dignified approach with his attitude than the some of the others. But, I can fully understand the rant given by Maidstone's owner and others who feel that they have been harshly dealt with.
Just my opinion mind.

Quakerlad
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Re: Support package announced

Post by Quakerlad » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:19 pm

Have to say that I agree with his argument although could have been more tactful maybe.
Surely it would have taken a techno wise guy minutes to factor in the total money and divided it out based on say last seasons attendances over all 3 divisions. Let’s be honest, this money IS to replace fans paying to attend matches so where’s the argument.
On this basis we probably would have been better off but no one could have argued if it was based on a scientific formula.
Shocking really, although it does probably cover our total lost income from our home games so a win overall really!

lo36789
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Re: Support package announced

Post by lo36789 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:45 pm

dfcdfcdfc wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:26 pm
Think the disproportionate division between national and n/s is the biggest source of discontent
See I actually disagree with this. They have pretty much has 2x the funding as NLN/S.

Wasn't it estimated it would cost 3x as much to compete at NL level?

I don't think we've been that badly affected by the formula in reality. I think the clubs who only got £6k more with much bigger crowds are actually worse hit.

LoidLucan
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Re: Support package announced

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:54 pm

Would be good if the NL board just outlined and explained the formula/criteria used to allocate funding as most people were under the impression it was to be centred largely around lost attendances at each club. A bit of transparency might help and could help stem some of the accusations flying around.

tdk1
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Re: Support package announced

Post by tdk1 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:33 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:45 pm
dfcdfcdfc wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:26 pm
Think the disproportionate division between national and n/s is the biggest source of discontent
See I actually disagree with this. They have pretty much has 2x the funding as NLN/S.

Wasn't it estimated it would cost 3x as much to compete at NL level?

I don't think we've been that badly affected by the formula in reality. I think the clubs who only got £6k more with much bigger crowds are actually worse hit.

It doesn't matter how much it costs to compete, it matters how much gate money you've actually lost. If a team is in the nl because they have chucked a load of money at it for fun, then they shouldn't be subsidised for doing so, surely?

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Support package announced

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm

I don't agree with his point that some clubs will suddenly be able to afford players they normally can't due to a perceived windfall for them. If your budget jumped up for just one year then you'd have to sign players on one year deals as then your budget would drop back to what it was previously and you wouldn't be able to carry on paying higher wages.

lo36789
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Re: Support package announced

Post by lo36789 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:21 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:33 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:45 pm
dfcdfcdfc wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:26 pm
Think the disproportionate division between national and n/s is the biggest source of discontent
See I actually disagree with this. They have pretty much has 2x the funding as NLN/S.

Wasn't it estimated it would cost 3x as much to compete at NL level?

I don't think we've been that badly affected by the formula in reality. I think the clubs who only got £6k more with much bigger crowds are actually worse hit.
It doesn't matter how much it costs to compete, it matters how much gate money you've actually lost. If a team is in the nl because they have chucked a load of money at it for fun, then they shouldn't be subsidised for doing so, surely?
There will be a revenue multiplier from their position in the NL. Advertising revenues, hospitality revenues, ticket prices themselves.

The increased cost based are a product of what would normally be more substantial revenues.

If purely based on ticket prices alone I suspect that must be a 1.5x multiplier. We used to charge £18 a match in the NL and that was 8 years ago.

Although a quick glance at Stockport and Notts County suggests they were charging similar last season.

jjljks
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Re: Support package announced

Post by jjljks » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:23 am

Surely the people who are giving the funding are also responsible for fàirly distributing the money? If the premise is that it covers 'lost gate money', then it is fairly simple to work out. However, some clubs have other streams of revenue which have been cut off and have a case that must be taken into consideration. Even taking club accounts & tax submissions averaged over last couple of seasons would need to take into account on the field issues such as promotion / relegation payouts and decent cup runs, hence very complicated. We do not want lawyers & accountants to be the only ones who gain from this settlement. It is a matter of urgency to get cash to the clubs & we have to accept there will be winners and losers, no matter what the formula is.

onewayup
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Re: Support package announced

Post by onewayup » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:15 pm

Read what the man has to say, i think certain heads will roll after an investigation, the disparity between clubs that they are connected with and other clubs in national , north,and south, is not what the grants were implemented for, The grants system was to replace lost gate revenues, Not to prop-up clubs in the national league with very small fan bases,
It's clear reading the statement that certain national league chiefs have taken the grants as bailouts for their prospective club's, i hope that they are banned and fined by the Official authority the sooner they are the better, it's not rocket science to be able to distribute the grant fairly on fanbases throughout the whole national league system. These people are robbing the grants system for their own ends.

spen666
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Re: Support package announced

Post by spen666 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:40 pm

onewayup wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:15 pm
Read what the man has to say, i think certain heads will roll after an investigation,.....
I'm not sure "heads will roll", nor am I sure anyone has done anything wrong.

There are endless different ways the money could have been divided.

There are arguments for and against every proposal.

We all have our preferred options. Because the NL didn't agree with your or my preferred solution doesn't mean it was wrong & heads should roll.

As I understand it, the decision was one that was voted on by members of the NL (and the voting system is another argument altogether). Democracy means accepting the result, even if it's not your preferred option.

It's telling that some people are complaining despite being given a gift of at least £90k that they had no legal right to insist on. Compare this to excellent worded statement from Darlington & ask which club comes out of this situation with an enhanced reputation (clue it's not Maidstone).

No solution would please everyone

poppyfield
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Re: Support package announced

Post by poppyfield » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:58 pm

Another club unhappy about the way the grants have been distributed.
https://harriers.co.uk/news/2020/10/23/ ... e-funding/
Help get the club back to Darlo by helping to spread the word about the "Back to Darlo!" fund. The image on the right will be constantly updated with the latest total so please feel free to use the image link below the thermometer on your own signatures, blogs, websites, etc.Image
Image link: http://www.mydarlo.co.uk/img/BTD-therm-350x100.jpg

bga
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Re: Support package announced

Post by bga » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:59 pm

Joint statement from FC United of Manchester, Shields & Scarborough below. An interesting point made regards "Locked out Supporters" in the 5th paragraph.

http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/story.php?story_id=8821

biccynana
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Re: Support package announced

Post by biccynana » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm

spen666 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:40 pm
Democracy means accepting the result, even if it's not your preferred option.
You heard the man. If a majority of posters vote for spen666 to do one then he will.

al_quaker
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Re: Support package announced

Post by al_quaker » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:27 pm

biccynana wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm
spen666 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:40 pm
Democracy means accepting the result, even if it's not your preferred option.
You heard the man. If a majority of posters vote for spen666 to do one then he will.
I'm not sure why he's on here. A forum is a place for discussion, yet he refuses to engage with direct questions to him.

spen666
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Re: Support package announced

Post by spen666 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:44 pm

poppyfield wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:58 pm
Another club unhappy about the way the grants have been distributed.
https://harriers.co.uk/news/2020/10/23/ ... e-funding/
The Majority of complaints from clubs regarding gifts of at Step 1 & 2 seem to be from step 2 clubs which suggests the bigger issue is the amount of the pot Step 1 clubs voted on for themselves (not surprising given they have 23 out of 66 votes ( should be 24/68 but for Macclesfield & Bury situations)


Perhaps the National Lottery / FA should have determined the split rather than leaving it to clubs with a vested interest and a majority of the voting power.

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