National lockdown

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darlo reborn
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National lockdown

Post by darlo reborn » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:30 pm

If a national lockdown comes in for a month does this mean all games postponed for that period and how would they ever catch up including fa cup

bga
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Re: National lockdown

Post by bga » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:02 pm

darlo reborn wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:30 pm
If a national lockdown comes in for a month does this mean all games postponed for that period and how would they ever catch up including fa cup
Use your brain for first part of your question.................

Vodka_Vic
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:32 pm

Probably and hard to catch up. However, the integrity of all competitions would be severely compromised anyway soon as so many teams would be withdrawing from cups and in leagues some teams would be having to play 3 times a week in the last couple of months to catch up. Presumably, and you would hope, the leagues met before the season started with contingency plans. I.e. a cut-off point regarding the minimum percentage of games played before PPG is used or the season is just abandoned. There has to be a minimum number of games for PPG to be used as a barometer. Clearly if only 30% of the season were to be completed then this is not a big enough sample size.

bga
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Re: National lockdown

Post by bga » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:51 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:32 pm
Probably and hard to catch up. However, the integrity of all competitions would be severely compromised anyway soon as so many teams would be withdrawing from cups and in leagues some teams would be having to play 3 times a week in the last couple of months to catch up. Presumably, and you would hope, the leagues met before the season started with contingency plans. I.e. a cut-off point regarding the minimum percentage of games played before PPG is used or the season is just abandoned. There has to be a minimum number of games for PPG to be used as a barometer. Clearly if only 30% of the season were to be completed then this is not a big enough sample size.
Is this the same "Leagues" who decided how the Lottery funding should be distributed? Seriously though it would be helpful if the League Management Committee (or whatever they are known as) at least made a statement that they had (we hoped) made contingency plans should the season be curtailed early, or interrupted. That is all we need to know at this stage.

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Re: National lockdown

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:05 pm

Agreed bga but, like you, not holding my breath.

H1987
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Re: National lockdown

Post by H1987 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:19 pm

As an ‘elite sport’ there has to be a possibility we carry on, no?

Vodka_Vic
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:21 pm

Depends what they say at 4- how "stay at home" will it be? If It's a non-essential job then we might have to stop.

jjljks
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Re: National lockdown

Post by jjljks » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:36 pm

19:30 Boris said Premier League will continue despite locksown. Obvs no mention of NLN or FA Cup so must wait to see if these are "non-essential"

lo36789
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Re: National lockdown

Post by lo36789 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:38 pm

Elite sport looks set to continue. That boundary has actually been pretty well defined in recent months I think. The detail beneath that has been published specifically says elite sport may continue and DCMS have confirmed (see Ollie Bayliss).

Haha it actually works in our favour this time out to keep playing.

It genuinley could mean a number of teams being removed from the FA Cup though. He says grassroots to finish but that misses the rest of the NLS who are non-elite.

Vodka_Vic
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:51 pm

Independent reporting that Elite sport will continue, but not amateur sport. One has to assume that exceptions will be made for Step 3 clubs and below who are still in the FA Cup, but who knows?

lo36789
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Re: National lockdown

Post by lo36789 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:57 pm

There is still something in between elite and amateur. Non-elite National League System is a third category.

When football restarted there was separate guidance issued for the National League System and Grassroots.

Weird of Bayliss to basically omit it from his updates as he is pretty aware.
Last edited by lo36789 on Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Quaker85
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Quaker85 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:57 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Independent reporting that Elite sport will continue, but not amateur sport. One has to assume that exceptions will be made for Step 3 clubs and below who are still in the FA Cup, but who knows?
Step 3-6 are neither elite or amateur but I get what you meant.


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bga
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Re: National lockdown

Post by bga » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:02 pm

bga wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:02 pm
darlo reborn wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:30 pm
If a national lockdown comes in for a month does this mean all games postponed for that period and how would they ever catch up including fa cup
Use your brain for first part of your question.................
I may end up issuing an apology for this comment of mine watch this space!

lo36789
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Re: National lockdown

Post by lo36789 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:04 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:51 pm
One has to assume that exceptions will be made for Step 3 clubs and below who are still in the FA Cup, but who knows?
They may not legally be allowed to train. Well not after Wednesday...

H1987
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Re: National lockdown

Post by H1987 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:00 pm

I'd think it'll probably be classed as an 'elite' competition.

When this is over, we need some reassessment of allowing socially distanced fans in at all levels. It's safer than going to a cinema or a pub, if properly managed. It's outside. I've read no examples of cases from the crowds of 600 at Scarborough etc nor the 1,000 they let into a bunch of EFL games. It seems absurd Boro and Sunderland can't allow a few thousand in their huge stadiums but 600 can cram in at low levels in stadiums much less capable of enforcing distancing properly.

I say this not from a monetary perspective, but from a public health perspective. I realise clubs won't make a lot of money out of doing it, but football without fans is rubbish, and it will give a lot of very fed up people something... with minimal risk. It'll also provide stewards etc with some work. If we can open a cinema was can open a safely distanced stadium.

Darlopartisan
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Darlopartisan » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:05 pm

So what about the FA Trophy, how’s that going to be able to continue or not as the case maybe.

Old Git
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Old Git » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:52 pm

Darlopartisan wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:05 pm
So what about the FA Trophy, how’s that going to be able to continue or not as the case maybe.
Maybe it will effectively become a League Cup for NL NLN and NLS.

lo36789
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Re: National lockdown

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:02 pm

Darlopartisan wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:05 pm
So what about the FA Trophy, how’s that going to be able to continue or not as the case maybe.
Nobody knows. The FA and DCMS have been in discussion all day today as I understand it.

a) To validate who can play at all. The leaks are that it will be elite only so only NLN/NLS and above to continue playing. I expect this to be the outcome from a league game perspective. They keep using the word elite sport for a reason.

b) Whether they can continue as they are. The initial allowance for elite to continue is on basis that it's because of regular testing taking place. No other workspaces mandate regular testing so I am not sure they can legitimately now required it. I wouldn't expect any change here. The cost would be prohibitive and it would always be a case of taking resources from the broader testing needs of the population

c) It may be that more restrictive requirements or expectations are put in place for clubs. The basis for football itself being allowed is that the game itself doesn't constitute close contact (proximity isn't maintained for more than 15 minutes). It is clear that some players and clubs aren't doing as they are told though as a number of clubs have put the whole team into isolation with a positive case. Clearly they are sharing changing facilities without maintaining distancing or are sharing travel together which is meant to be not allowed under return to football guidance issued by the FA. The fact clubs are putting full teams into isolation basically means they are admitting they are not operating "COVID secure". It wouldn't surprise me if there were more enforcement around this and if clubs can't evidence that they were operating in a covid secure manner they will be forfeiting games rather than being allowed to postpone them.

d) how to deal with FA Comps. FA Cup currently has a number of elite v non-elite games, and FA Trophy will be moving towards elite v non-elite stages. They need to decision how to continue. Critically the FA get their money for sponsorship etc. once the 1st Round Proper is played. FA Trophy is sort of irrelevant and barely makes them any money so they will probably just put that on pause and see what happens. It would not surprise me if they sacrifice the clubs lower down to get their pay day..

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Re: National lockdown

Post by quaker4life » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:50 am

H1987 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:00 pm
If we can open a cinema was can open a safely distanced stadium.
I've had this discussion before re: "If it's safe to go to the pub/cinema it's safe to open a stadium" etc and in principal I agree, however there can be no comparison drawn between cinemas and pubs to football, with football you are talking about a substantial amount of people congregating in one place up and down the country and even with restricted numbers it is far higher than that of any local boozer or theatre.

It's also not just a matter of allowing fans in it's where those fans are coming from and what they're doing before the game, again even with reduced numbers it is a mass movement of people across the country at one time which for obvious reasons cannot be allowed to happen. Having people milling around on the streets, at train stations, bus stops et al where social distancing will go out of the window almost entirely defeats the object of having socially distanced crowds in a stadium.

With smaller regional leagues (such as the NLN :crazy: ) it's obviously different with far smaller numbers and much less travelling involved (cup competitions aside) than the EPL or the Championship et al and you only have to look at how social distancing was adhered to in some of those grounds lower down the pyramid to see why opening up larger venues across the country could become problematic. Given the current situation I do not anticipate supporters returning to "elite" level before the spring at the earliest unless we see a dramatic change in the trend with Covid-19 in the next few months.

It is a frustrating, demoralising and draining situation we find ourselves in having had a whiff of freedom and some sort of normality it has been taken away from us all over again. I have refused to watch football behind closed doors since it resumed in the summer it is absolutely soul destroying to see those large empty stadiums and no amount of throwing blankets over all those empty seats or fake crowd noise can disguise the reality of it, since all this began I have only just managed to watch Chelsea V Liverpool and I found it excruciating they may as well have played on the stage at the London Palladium.

I have not watched a single Darlo game this season either and I now find myself in a position where I'm getting used to not watching football at all, I have only heard about results from friends and I have no idea what fixtures are coming up (Swindon aside) and I have not even seen the league table all of which is a first in over 20 years.

Amidst all the untold misery this virus has caused and is continuing to cause football, like all sports from my point of view and no doubt many others has faded into the background, I hope that at least by the time the Euro's come around next summer we are able to see the return of supporters even if it is with reduced numbers because without them football really is nothing.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

Emdubya
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Emdubya » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:15 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:50 am
H1987 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:00 pm
If we can open a cinema was can open a safely distanced stadium.
I've had this discussion before re: "If it's safe to go to the pub/cinema it's safe to open a stadium" etc and in principal I agree, however there can be no comparison drawn between cinemas and pubs to football, with football you are talking about a substantial amount of people congregating in one place up and down the country and even with restricted numbers it is far higher than that of any local boozer or theatre.

It's also not just a matter of allowing fans in it's where those fans are coming from and what they're doing before the game, again even with reduced numbers it is a mass movement of people across the country at one time which for obvious reasons cannot be allowed to happen. Having people milling around on the streets, at train stations, bus stops et al where social distancing will go out of the window almost entirely defeats the object of having socially distanced crowds in a stadium.

With smaller regional leagues (such as the NLN :crazy: ) it's obviously different with far smaller numbers and much less travelling involved (cup competitions aside) than the EPL or the Championship et al and you only have to look at how social distancing was adhered to in some of those grounds lower down the pyramid to see why opening up larger venues across the country could become problematic. Given the current situation I do not anticipate supporters returning to "elite" level before the spring at the earliest unless we see a dramatic change in the trend with Covid-19 in the next few months.

It is a frustrating, demoralising and draining situation we find ourselves in having had a whiff of freedom and some sort of normality it has been taken away from us all over again. I have refused to watch football behind closed doors since it resumed in the summer it is absolutely soul destroying to see those large empty stadiums and no amount of throwing blankets over all those empty seats or fake crowd noise can disguise the reality of it, since all this began I have only just managed to watch Chelsea V Liverpool and I found it excruciating they may as well have played on the stage at the London Palladium.

I have not watched a single Darlo game this season either and I now find myself in a position where I'm getting used to not watching football at all, I have only heard about results from friends and I have no idea what fixtures are coming up (Swindon aside) and I have not even seen the league table all of which is a first in over 20 years.

Amidst all the untold misery this virus has caused and is continuing to cause football, like all sports from my point of view and no doubt many others has faded into the background, I hope that at least by the time the Euro's come around next summer we are able to see the return of supporters even if it is with reduced numbers because without them football really is nothing.
Well that’s cheered me up no end😒.Its the way things are fella so why not try adapting.There are people at our club who have busted a gut to put on a fantastic service in Quaker TV but you can’t be bothered to try it!.Strange.

quaker4life
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Re: National lockdown

Post by quaker4life » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:42 pm

Emdubya wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:15 pm
Well that’s cheered me up no end😒.Its the way things are fella so why not try adapting.There are people at our club who have busted a gut to put on a fantastic service in Quaker TV but you can’t be bothered to try it!.Strange.
At what point did I suggest I was unappreciative of Kev Luff and all those involved in the live streaming?

Yes it's the way things are, and no sitting at home watching a match on a laptop or tablet is not a substitute for being there.

And as for adapting I didn't like what I saw so I turned it off, can't do much more than that. :thumbup:
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

Vodka_Vic
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Re: National lockdown

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:45 pm

Yeah. Watch Quaker TV, buy a few 50/50 tickets. Buy the programme, so that when we emerge out of it you have a better chance of a club to watch.

Anyone else go to Scarborough? I did as I was worried about how things were going and if that would be the only game I would see. I hoped I would be wrong. It now seems surreal that I was at that game watching live football.

bga
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Re: National lockdown

Post by bga » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:11 pm

darlo reborn wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:30 pm
If a national lockdown comes in for a month does this mean all games postponed for that period and how would they ever catch up including fa cup
Darlo reborn. Apologies for my over the top response to your question. I was wrong.

lo36789
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Re: National lockdown

Post by lo36789 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:48 pm

Confirmed.

Steps 3-7 are also postponed for duration of lockdown that includes playing and training.

Exception is in place to allow teams to participate in the FA Cup on Saturday. It does mean the teams can't train on Thursday or Friday though.

If any of the step 3 and below teams get through (1 definitely will) those teams will be required to spend the month not training before their 2nd round ties.

al_quaker
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Re: National lockdown

Post by al_quaker » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:32 pm

Guidance has changed according to Ollie Bayliss - non-elite clubs still in the FA Cup can train.

lo36789
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Re: National lockdown

Post by lo36789 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:36 pm

Haha yep clearly got some kick back although it only refers to the First Round. They will still need to know what the situation is for Second Round.

I reckon that will be confirmed depending how many teams progress

H1987
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Re: National lockdown

Post by H1987 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:10 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:50 am
H1987 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:00 pm
If we can open a cinema was can open a safely distanced stadium.
I've had this discussion before re: "If it's safe to go to the pub/cinema it's safe to open a stadium" etc and in principal I agree, however there can be no comparison drawn between cinemas and pubs to football, with football you are talking about a substantial amount of people congregating in one place up and down the country and even with restricted numbers it is far higher than that of any local boozer or theatre.

It's also not just a matter of allowing fans in it's where those fans are coming from and what they're doing before the game, again even with reduced numbers it is a mass movement of people across the country at one time which for obvious reasons cannot be allowed to happen. Having people milling around on the streets, at train stations, bus stops et al where social distancing will go out of the window almost entirely defeats the object of having socially distanced crowds in a stadium.

With smaller regional leagues (such as the NLN :crazy: ) it's obviously different with far smaller numbers and much less travelling involved (cup competitions aside) than the EPL or the Championship et al and you only have to look at how social distancing was adhered to in some of those grounds lower down the pyramid to see why opening up larger venues across the country could become problematic. Given the current situation I do not anticipate supporters returning to "elite" level before the spring at the earliest unless we see a dramatic change in the trend with Covid-19 in the next few months.

It is a frustrating, demoralising and draining situation we find ourselves in having had a whiff of freedom and some sort of normality it has been taken away from us all over again. I have refused to watch football behind closed doors since it resumed in the summer it is absolutely soul destroying to see those large empty stadiums and no amount of throwing blankets over all those empty seats or fake crowd noise can disguise the reality of it, since all this began I have only just managed to watch Chelsea V Liverpool and I found it excruciating they may as well have played on the stage at the London Palladium.

I have not watched a single Darlo game this season either and I now find myself in a position where I'm getting used to not watching football at all, I have only heard about results from friends and I have no idea what fixtures are coming up (Swindon aside) and I have not even seen the league table all of which is a first in over 20 years.

Amidst all the untold misery this virus has caused and is continuing to cause football, like all sports from my point of view and no doubt many others has faded into the background, I hope that at least by the time the Euro's come around next summer we are able to see the return of supporters even if it is with reduced numbers because without them football really is nothing.
I feel like there were some significant caveats included in my original post which you are skirting over here, but I don't see how most of what you are saying does not apply to any social activity.

Lets use the cinema as our example here. Most modern Cinemas fit a couple of hundred people into a relatively small room with usually one entrance and exit (albeit they have fire exits also which could be adapted). Football grounds have multiple turnstiles, are outdoors, and have plentiful stewards to ensure distancing. This also applies inside the stadium. The travel aspect - well, travel advice isn't going to change, just because we let fans in? Pubs and restaurants beforehand? It's their job to ensure distancing is observed. I can't imagine a world where hospitality is going to look as it did pre-pandemic in the UK for a long time.

I'm talking about really quite small numbers here, but it is imperative to get fans back in for the sake of the game. The idea that large stadiums can't cope with like 15-20% capacity and rigorously enforce rules is for the birds. I'd certainly prefer to go and watch a game of football than sit in a pub. I nearly went to Tooting and Mitcham the other week but didn't fancy the journey. That decision making bit should be up to fans and authorities to police and it applies to literally any activity we undertake right now, but crucially, the game itself. Would I feel at risk? No I wouldn't. I've been to Tooting before, the average crowd is probably about 500. You can have a beer and watch the game. It's objectively far more distanced than any pub which has been allowed to operate. I watched some local cricket in the summer too. Same thing. Maybe there were about 150 or so spectators all sat outside, apart, watching. Level of risk? Absolutely minimal.

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