FA rules on abandonment

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onewayup
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FA rules on abandonment

Post by onewayup » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:15 am

This is the rule, (i) When a first match has been postponed, or is abandoned before the completion of 90 minutes and neither Club being at fault, it shall be played on the same ground: in the Qualifying Competition and First, Second and Third Rounds Proper – on or before the following Thursday.
www.thefa.com › files › pdfPDF
FA Competition Rules & Instructions - The Football Association

I realised after posting that I had the wrong rules,
It's a decision to be made by the national league as it was a league game.
My mistake This is from national league rules.

.(8.33 In the event that a match is abandoned for reasons over which neither Club has control the Club playing at home shall retain the gate receipts for such uncompleted match and the Board shall determine the terms upon which any replayed match shall be played.)
Last edited by onewayup on Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

eek
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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by eek » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:18 am

It wasn't a cup match

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by JasonDeVos » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:28 am

Did we not get a win against warrington after it was abandoned at half time??

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by spen666 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:30 am

eek wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:18 am
It wasn't a cup match
Law 7 provides similarly for all football matches.

IE a game is of 2 halves of 45 minutes


However there are examples of matches being deemed complete going back at least as far as the infamous Man U 0 v 2 Man City match in 1974 where after Dennis Law put City 2 up near the end of the game, Man U fans invaded pitch, game was abandoned, but result was ordered to stand.

In FA Vase, South Shields v Morpeth was replayed when South Shields floodlights "failed" in 80something minute when they were down to 10 men and had just gone 3-1 down.


The main thing and far more important is that Nicky Hunt appears to be ok and is out of hospital. Whether the score stands or not is trivial and immaterial in the circumstances

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by tdk1 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:31 am

JasonDeVos wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:28 am
Did we not get a win against warrington after it was abandoned at half time??
Yeah, but warrington were at fault in that one.

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FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:48 pm

tdk1 wrote:
JasonDeVos wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:28 am
Did we not get a win against warrington after it was abandoned at half time??
Yeah, but warrington were at fault in that one.
Yes, I think they refused to play, hence we were awarded the win.

This is different as the referee abandoned the game on player safety grounds.
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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:50 pm

It will be league discretion. It was with Warrington game.

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loan_star
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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by loan_star » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:58 pm

Whilst I'm mot arsed if its played again or not, had the ref done his job properly then they wouldnt have scored the second goal so there would have only been the 1 goal in it with stoppage time still to play.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:40 pm

I think with two players prone after a collision like that it was a bit surprising the game wasn't halted especially in this increasingly cautious health and safety world. Surely even Boston couldn't have complained if the game had been stopped in the circumstances.

They were extremely unfortunate and unusual circumstances last night with no blame attached to either side. The game should be replayed, never mind the score or who may or may not have won had it been completed. Games aren't normally decided on the grounds of probability.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:22 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:40 pm
Games aren't normally decided on the grounds of probability.
There is no "normal". The rules are league discretion.

We were awarded the Warrington game. There have been games this season can't remember where awarded at 1-0 with time left. Real Madrid played out the final 6minutes of their game against Real Sociedad in 2005.

There will be statements requested from either side. If we push for a replay then it will be a league board decision. If we don't then it will just be awarded to Boston.

Whilst it's true that referees are guided to stop play for a serious injury in law it is simply referee discretion to stop play. Had the injury not been serious then Boston would have unduly had a goal wiped out.

Standard practise is if there is an attacking situation play is allowed to continue but the moment momentum is lost then play is pulled back.

I don't actually know I didn't see it how long after the injury the ball was in the net but if it was less than 20 seconds and play didn't change possession then referee probably did the expected action.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Makka Pakka » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:24 pm

loan_star wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:58 pm
Whilst I'm mot arsed if its played again or not, had the ref done his job properly then they wouldnt have scored the second goal so there would have only been the 1 goal in it with stoppage time still to play.
You think in the 4-5 seconds between the players going down (which wasn't immediate) and the goal going in it was obvious a serious injury had happened?
I don't think the referee has any case to answer here.
"At a meeting held at the Grammar School on Friday last - Mr Phillip Wood M.A., in the chair - it was resolved to form an Association Football Club for Darlington and neighbourhood. The opinions of those present were so unanimous as to the desirability of this step, that a committee was formed to complete the organisation of the club, and Mr Craven, 17, Garden Street, was appointed secretary pro tem." - The Northern Echo, Monday 23rd July 1883

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:25 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:40 pm
I think with two players prone after a collision like that it was a bit surprising the game wasn't halted especially in this increasingly cautious health and safety world. Surely even Boston couldn't have complained if the game had been stopped in the circumstances.

They were extremely unfortunate and unusual circumstances last night with no blame attached to either side. The game should be replayed, never mind the score or who may or may not have won had it been completed. Games aren't normally decided on the grounds of probability.
I agree with this. I'm sure everyone is rightly putting the well being of our player first but I also thought it strange that the Ref just allowed two players to heavily crash into each other without immediately bringing the game to a stop. My initial thought while watching this game on the live stream was "STOP PLAY". I know that the goal was scored shortly after but even so, I've seen Refs stop play instantly on many other occasions like this.

Furthermore no one can say us or any other team wouldn't have been able to get one or two goals back with the 7 or 8 minutes still remaining, and it would have been one goal if play had of been stopped.

The result of the game is obviously trivial, very trivial compared to the nasty event that happened, but it's not "immaterial in the circumstances", and it will be interesting to see what the decision makers make of this, and incidentally - we owe Boston nothing.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by dfcdfcdfc » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm

"incidentally - we owe Boston nothing."

???

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Mister e » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:37 pm

For the integrity of the game and fair play the common sense decision must be allow the result to stand and award a 2 0 win to Boston. I'm pretty certain Alun Armstrong won't want our fixture backlog to become any worse than it is anyway. Absolutely delighted that Noel hunt looks like he is going to be OK.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:29 pm

dfcdfcdfc wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:02 pm
"incidentally - we owe Boston nothing."

???
I don't mean anything nasty by this but there is a theme here about how they outplayed us and suchlike, which is a fair point but the match wasn't finished and I've seen games turned around with less time on the clock than we had left. We don't need to be chivalrous towards Boston, they put some heavy tackles in (Charman and others) so I'm happy to let the powers that be look into this matter.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:33 pm

Realistically the league are within their rights to suggest we play the final 4 minutes + injury that were left.

If they did would we bother?

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FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:43 pm

Mister e wrote:For the integrity of the game and fair play the common sense decision must be allow the result to stand and award a 2 0 win to Boston. I'm pretty certain Alun Armstrong won't want our fixture backlog to become any worse than it is anyway. Absolutely delighted that Noel hunt looks like he is going to be OK.
Noel Hunt? Why are you bothered about Swindon’s caretaker manager?

Also, I’m not sure allowing a match to be finished at 86 mins really is an “integrity of the game” issue. I’d argue it undermines the integrity of the game.

You can easily make the argument we could’ve got back into the game in the remaining 4 mins plus stoppage time. Particularly as the game should’ve been stopped anyway because of the head injuries.

In my opinion, the game should be replayed, but that’s just my view. Ultimately it’s the league’s call.

The main thing of course is Nicky Hunt’s health, and the fact he looks like he’ll be OK is the priority.
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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by spen666 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:02 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:33 pm
Realistically the league are within their rights to suggest we play the final 4 minutes + injury that were left.

If they did would we bother?

I'm not sure the rules allow for restarting/ finishing a game after a referee has abandoned a game. My understanding of abandoning is that brings the game to an end. I am not aware of a game being restarted to play last few minutes in England previously.

Its a very rare situation and reasons for an abandonement and timings can and do vary, so there is no simple clear answer. There are precedents for games being replayed in full and precedents for results standing, so people can pick either option and find precedent to support it


Main thing is Nicky Hunt appears to be ok

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by loan_star » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:23 pm

Makka Pakka wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:24 pm
loan_star wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:58 pm
Whilst I'm mot arsed if its played again or not, had the ref done his job properly then they wouldnt have scored the second goal so there would have only been the 1 goal in it with stoppage time still to play.
You think in the 4-5 seconds between the players going down (which wasn't immediate) and the goal going in it was obvious a serious injury had happened?
I don't think the referee has any case to answer here.
The ref had a quick glance and, even though Hunt was holding his head, didnt have a second look until the end of the passage of play.
He had ample chance to have a second look before the goal was scored. It takes a fraction of a second to have a second glance and if he had he would have seen it was a head injury. Poor refereeing.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:36 pm

spen666 wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:02 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:33 pm
Realistically the league are within their rights to suggest we play the final 4 minutes + injury that were left.

If they did would we bother?

I'm not sure the rules allow for restarting/ finishing a game after a referee has abandoned a game. My understanding of abandoning is that brings the game to an end. I am not aware of a game being restarted to play last few minutes in England previously.

Its a very rare situation and reasons for an abandonement and timings can and do vary, so there is no simple clear answer. There are precedents for games being replayed in full and precedents for results standing, so people can pick either option and find precedent to support it


Main thing is Nicky Hunt appears to be ok
Rules simply allow the league to determine nature of the replayed game. Different country but the laws of football are the same globally.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Mister e » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:44 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:43 pm
Mister e wrote:For the integrity of the game and fair play the common sense decision must be allow the result to stand and award a 2 0 win to Boston. I'm pretty certain Alun Armstrong won't want our fixture backlog to become any worse than it is anyway. Absolutely delighted that Noel hunt looks like he is going to be OK.
Noel Hunt? Why are you bothered about Swindon’s caretaker manager?

Also, I’m not sure allowing a match to be finished at 86 mins really is an “integrity of the game” issue. I’d argue it undermines the integrity of the game.

You can easily make the argument we could’ve got back into the game in the remaining 4 mins plus stoppage time. Particularly as the game should’ve been stopped anyway because of the head injuries.

In my opinion, the game should be replayed, but that’s just my view. Ultimately it’s the league’s call.

The main thing of course is Nicky Hunt’s health, and the fact he looks like he’ll be OK is the priority.
Apologies I meant Nicky hunt these lockdowns are sending me stir crazy and driving me up the wall maybe once we're allowed back into the ground the players names will start sinking back into my grey matter a bit better.😁👍

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darl-Zero » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:14 pm

Even though there was a chance we could have pulled the goals back (and Nicky Hunt obviously hadn’t given up) I think we should offer to concede for the sake of controlling the virus.
That will show common sense and sportsmanship and we can get on with the season from there.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:15 pm

Darl-Zero wrote:Even though there was a chance we could have pulled the goals back (and Nicky Hunt obviously hadn’t given up) I think we should offer to concede for the sake of controlling the virus.
That will show common sense and sportsmanship and we can get on with the season from there.
“For the sake of controlling the virus...”

Dear me, I’m all for sportsmanship etc but this is all a little over the top.

If it’s sportsmanship we’re after, Boston didn’t stop playing despite two of our defenders being in a crumpled heap while they were attacking.

I also don’t see how accepting an 86-minute match is common sense. A full match wasn’t completed.

The league will decide, and I’ll have no qualms either way. But if we get the chance to wipe a 2-0 defeat out and have another crack at Boston, none of us should be complaining.
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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by onewayup » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:36 pm

I agree with not complete match ,I really believe that it should be replayed ,as for Boston carrying on why would they stop, the referees whistle is the signal to stop the referee was poor missed a situation that could have turned out very much worse than it did,thankfully the player is ok but very sore after several hours in hospital. Had the ref done his job Boston would not have scored so there would have been a1 goal deficit with 6/7 minutes to play. It not impossible darlington could have scored in the time left.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:30 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Darl-Zero wrote:Even though there was a chance we could have pulled the goals back (and Nicky Hunt obviously hadn’t given up) I think we should offer to concede for the sake of controlling the virus.
That will show common sense and sportsmanship and we can get on with the season from there.
“For the sake of controlling the virus...”

Dear me, I’m all for sportsmanship etc but this is all a little over the top.

If it’s sportsmanship we’re after, Boston didn’t stop playing despite two of our defenders being in a crumpled heap while they were attacking.

I also don’t see how accepting an 86-minute match is common sense. A full match wasn’t completed.

The league will decide, and I’ll have no qualms either way. But if we get the chance to wipe a 2-0 defeat out and have another crack at Boston, none of us should be complaining.
Totally agree with Gramps on this one, let's get the game replayed, get the 3 points and shut that idiot keeper of theirs up once and for all, not forgetting their management team

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darl-Zero » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:18 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:15 pm
Darl-Zero wrote:Even though there was a chance we could have pulled the goals back (and Nicky Hunt obviously hadn’t given up) I think we should offer to concede for the sake of controlling the virus.
That will show common sense and sportsmanship and we can get on with the season from there.
“For the sake of controlling the virus...”

Dear me, I’m all for sportsmanship etc but this is all a little over the top.

If it’s sportsmanship we’re after, Boston didn’t stop playing despite two of our defenders being in a crumpled heap while they were attacking.

I also don’t see how accepting an 86-minute match is common sense. A full match wasn’t completed.

The league will decide, and I’ll have no qualms either way. But if we get the chance to wipe a 2-0 defeat out and have another crack at Boston, none of us should be complaining.
We recently lost the rest of a season to control the virus where we had a better chance of making the playoffs than coming from 2 down with maybe 7 minutes of football.
And you would gather all those people back for a chance to sneak 3 almost lost points.
I too will accept what the league decide but we are lucky to have football at this level so why push it.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by leedscol » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:22 pm

Look if it was the other way round and we had been 2-0 up and a Boston player injured, would you still expect the game to be replayed? I think not.

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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:48 pm

leedscol wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:22 pm
Look if it was the other way round and we had been 2-0 up and a Boston player injured, would you still expect the game to be replayed? I think not.
I don't think anyone is "expecting" the game to be replayed. I don't expect it to be replayed but it's a possibility and one that I would be happy to take. To say let Boston take it "because they played better" I find a little strange, because playing better doesn't win matches, through the course of a season all teams will lose games they should have won and vice-versa.

Personally I didn't like the cut of Boston's jib. :thumbdown:
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:32 am

Darl-Zero wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:15 pm
Darl-Zero wrote:Even though there was a chance we could have pulled the goals back (and Nicky Hunt obviously hadn’t given up) I think we should offer to concede for the sake of controlling the virus.
That will show common sense and sportsmanship and we can get on with the season from there.
“For the sake of controlling the virus...”

Dear me, I’m all for sportsmanship etc but this is all a little over the top.

If it’s sportsmanship we’re after, Boston didn’t stop playing despite two of our defenders being in a crumpled heap while they were attacking.

I also don’t see how accepting an 86-minute match is common sense. A full match wasn’t completed.

The league will decide, and I’ll have no qualms either way. But if we get the chance to wipe a 2-0 defeat out and have another crack at Boston, none of us should be complaining.
We recently lost the rest of a season to control the virus where we had a better chance of making the playoffs than coming from 2 down with maybe 7 minutes of football.
And you would gather all those people back for a chance to sneak 3 almost lost points.
I too will accept what the league decide but we are lucky to have football at this level so why push it.
Do you have anything to suggest there’s a greater risk of transmission at the actual matches? Any more than say in a supermarket, or in a training session.

There’s no evidence I can see that there’s a greater risk of transmission at the actual games. If there was, we wouldn’t even be playing football this season.

So on this, I’d absolutely be happy to see the game replayed if that’s what the league decides. Likewise, if the result stands, I’d think fair enough. My suspicion is the league will let the 2-0 result stand, as they won’t want additional fixtures to sort out in this season, and because of how close we were to the final whistle.

I can see the arguments either way. But I’m not buying the sanctimonious sportsmanship argument. It’s a load of nonsense.
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Re: FA rules on abandonment

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:36 am

leedscol wrote:Look if it was the other way round and we had been 2-0 up and a Boston player injured, would you still expect the game to be replayed? I think not.
I’d be thinking exactly the same as I am now. That I would see the reasoning either way, if it’s a replay or if the 2-0 result stands.

And I wouldn’t complain if the match was ordered to be replayed, even if we were the side in a winning position. A full 90 minute match hasn’t been completed.
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