Diego Maradona

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H1987
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by H1987 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:49 pm

I'm not sure how him having lots of caps erases the mistake? Much like I don't think Maradona's career isn't erased by one act of cheating.

Any keeper worth their salt catches that with confidence. He aims a half-hearted punch at a floating ball. Timid and pathetic is entirely fair, he was outjumped by a player a fraction his size. If he'd gone to catch it with authority, as he should have, it wouldn't have happened.

As for the cheating, there's been worse. We're just aggrieved because it happened to us.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:41 pm

No, he clearly thought he'd get the ball but god's hand got there first. The cheating (and I'm not aggrieved) caused the goal, not poor keeping. My point was you don't get that many caps from being "timid" especially when you're in competition with the mighty Clemence.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by H1987 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:41 pm

It could just as easily have been a head as a hand. It was a weak, limp-wristed attempted punch when he should've been catching it. He barely gets off the ground.

I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest I'm saying he was a bad goalkeeper? That doesn't mean he couldn't make an individual error.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:36 pm

H1987 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:41 pm
It could just as easily have been a head as a hand. It was a weak, limp-wristed attempted punch when he should've been catching it. He barely gets off the ground.

I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest I'm saying he was a bad goalkeeper? That doesn't mean he couldn't make an individual error.
Even an old git like me is learning something new every day. Had not realised that the “Hand of God “ goal was simply a goalkeeping error. Silly me what was I thinking 🤔

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:42 pm

H1987 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:41 pm
It could just as easily have been a head as a hand.
Not in this case because he couldn't jump that high - that's why he used his hand.
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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:54 pm

His head was an arms length from the ball hence he handled it over Shilton. The keeper presumably thought it was easily his ball and made the judgement based on honesty. Wrongly with hindsight. The blame is with the handball, not Shilton.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Yarblockos » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:24 am

I didn't realise Maradona played for Darlo. Is this really the right board?

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by don'tbuythesun » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:22 am

Taking our minds off Sunday!

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Norm_D_Ploom » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:37 pm

You do see this revisionist version of the reason for the goal a lot on Twitter. Mainly from people who equate Peter Shilton's political beliefs with the fact that he was at fault for the hog goal and not the bloke who punched the ball into the net, or the match officials who all missed it.

Look at any picture of the incident and that will confirm that PS has his eyes on the ball, his punch is following the line of the ball and that the ball is about half a metre above Diegos head.

QED, hence why he punched it.

None of this takes away from the quality of the 2nd goal or the brilliance of Diego as a footballer but let's do away with this idea that Shilton is somehow to blame for the hog goal.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by H1987 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:55 pm

don'tbuythesun wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:54 pm
His head was an arms length from the ball hence he handled it over Shilton. The keeper presumably thought it was easily his ball and made the judgement based on honesty. Wrongly with hindsight. The blame is with the handball, not Shilton.
I think you need to watch it again. Why is he trying to punch it? Pathetic, half-hearted goalkeeping.

Oldgit, read the thread. It's the official's fault first and foremost. It doesn't make Shilton's attempt any less weak.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by don'tbuythesun » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:16 pm

We'll just have to have different views....

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm

You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by H1987 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm

Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Vokuhila » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:44 pm

As brilliant a footballer as Maradona was, I was actually more saddened by the news about Papa Bouba Diop to be honest.

42's no age (I'm not far off that myself) and, I mean, the name and nickname alone are superb, but throw in that goal against France in 2002 and some classic Kammy and that's a proper legend to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4QBoN3_Q84

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am

H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am

Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am
H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Seriously?

You are comparing the crimes of the Yorkshire Ripper to those of Maradona.

Get a grip.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:14 am

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am
H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Seriously?

You are comparing the crimes of the Yorkshire Ripper to those of Maradona.

Get a grip.
That is not what I said and you know it. What I am saying is don’t rewrite history and stop glorifying someone simply because they have died. I was not a fan of Maradona when he was alive and nor am I now he is dead. Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating. It seems to me that people are defined in death by their actions in life and a cheat who fails to acknowledge he is a cheat remains a cheat forever.
Sadly for Diego that is how some of us will think of him . Those of a more forgiving nature may disagree.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:17 am

I think you are actually misinterpreting what people are saying though.

Nobody is denying what has been said they are simply seeing his death as a trigger to acknowledge what he achieved - but equally actually I think the issues surrounding him have been incredibly prominent.

You are suggesting that his cheating isn't being acknowledged. When literally the headlines about his death were a reference to the handball event.

Out of interest given this most principled stance on Maradona. When it comes to the likes of George Best, Bobby Moore and Churchill. I take it you equally think they should be afforded no acknowledgement of their achievements we should instead only acknowledge them for their respective flaws?

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:15 pm

Old Git wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am
H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Seriously?

You are comparing the crimes of the Yorkshire Ripper to those of Maradona.

Get a grip.
That is not what I said and you know it. What I am saying is don’t rewrite history and stop glorifying someone simply because they have died. I was not a fan of Maradona when he was alive and nor am I now he is dead. Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating. It seems to me that people are defined in death by their actions in life and a cheat who fails to acknowledge he is a cheat remains a cheat forever.
Sadly for Diego that is how some of us will think of him . Those of a more forgiving nature may disagree.
When did Maradona fail to acknowledge being a cheat?

He admitted it and acknowledged it. Only person trying to rewrite history is you because of your dislike of him, which is small-minded.

The fact you’re comparing Maradona to Peter Sutcliffe shows how silly your argument has become. And don’t deny it - your quote here: “Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating.” That’s literally a comparison.

You’ve resorted to abuse (calling him a “prick” and a “drug-adled s***”) and resorted to bigotry (‘cheating and thuggery are part of Argentinian culture’) says more about your narrow-mindedness to be honest.

The discussion about Maradona’s legacy is a reasonable one to have, and you have made some fair points. But you’re making it silly by bringing the Yorkshire Ripper, abusive language and bigoted generalisations into it.
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:24 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:15 pm
Old Git wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am
H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm


Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Seriously?

You are comparing the crimes of the Yorkshire Ripper to those of Maradona.

Get a grip.
That is not what I said and you know it. What I am saying is don’t rewrite history and stop glorifying someone simply because they have died. I was not a fan of Maradona when he was alive and nor am I now he is dead. Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating. It seems to me that people are defined in death by their actions in life and a cheat who fails to acknowledge he is a cheat remains a cheat forever.
Sadly for Diego that is how some of us will think of him . Those of a more forgiving nature may disagree.
When did Maradona fail to acknowledge being a cheat?

He admitted it and acknowledged it. Only person trying to rewrite history is you because of your dislike of him, which is small-minded.

The fact you’re comparing Maradona to Peter Sutcliffe shows how silly your argument has become. And don’t deny it - your quote here: “Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating.” That’s literally a comparison.

You’ve resorted to abuse (calling him a “prick” and a “drug-adled s***”) and resorted to bigotry (‘cheating and thuggery are part of Argentinian culture’) says more about your narrow-mindedness to be honest.

The discussion about Maradona’s legacy is a reasonable one to have, and you have made some fair points. But you’re making it silly by bringing the Yorkshire Ripper, abusive language and bigoted generalisations into it.
Thanks for acknowledging that the discussion regarding Maradona’s legacy is a legitimate discussion. That was I really intended to begin by opening this thread. Maybe my views are seen as extreme by some but at least some people understand my opinions which is what any debate is all about. Perhaps you could learn something from that when others differ from your strongly held views.

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Diego Maradona

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:01 pm

Old Git wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:15 pm
Old Git wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am


The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Seriously?

You are comparing the crimes of the Yorkshire Ripper to those of Maradona.

Get a grip.
That is not what I said and you know it. What I am saying is don’t rewrite history and stop glorifying someone simply because they have died. I was not a fan of Maradona when he was alive and nor am I now he is dead. Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating. It seems to me that people are defined in death by their actions in life and a cheat who fails to acknowledge he is a cheat remains a cheat forever.
Sadly for Diego that is how some of us will think of him . Those of a more forgiving nature may disagree.
When did Maradona fail to acknowledge being a cheat?

He admitted it and acknowledged it. Only person trying to rewrite history is you because of your dislike of him, which is small-minded.

The fact you’re comparing Maradona to Peter Sutcliffe shows how silly your argument has become. And don’t deny it - your quote here: “Same principle applies to Peter Sutcliffe although obviously his crimes were off the scale compared to Maradona’s cheating.” That’s literally a comparison.

You’ve resorted to abuse (calling him a “prick” and a “drug-adled s***”) and resorted to bigotry (‘cheating and thuggery are part of Argentinian culture’) says more about your narrow-mindedness to be honest.

The discussion about Maradona’s legacy is a reasonable one to have, and you have made some fair points. But you’re making it silly by bringing the Yorkshire Ripper, abusive language and bigoted generalisations into it.
Thanks for acknowledging that the discussion regarding Maradona’s legacy is a legitimate discussion. That was I really intended to begin by opening this thread. Maybe my views are seen as extreme by some but at least some people understand my opinions which is what any debate is all about. Perhaps you could learn something from that when others differ from your strongly held views.
Funny - you’re trying to claim the moral high ground after using profanity to abuse a dead man, and comparing him to the Yorkshire Ripper.

I don’t have any issue whatsoever with people disagreeing with me. This is a lazy falsehood peddled by people like you who simply want to shut down my criticisms of their points by deflecting the discussion to become about me. You’re doing it here.

If you’re able to give a specific example of when I’ve gone too far, I’ll hold my hands up. I suspect I’ll be waiting a while.

On the issue of Maradona, it’s clear to me most on here accept he was complex and that defining him by one incident isn’t really fair or sensible. And from a philosophical point of view, why do we need to be relentlessly negative about a man for one incident that happened 34 years ago, when he did bring a lot of good and joy to many, many people.
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:39 pm

Bet Ed Johns thinks you’ve gone too far with your obsession about him.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:11 pm

How did I know that I would be dragged into this somehow as the argument took an argumentative turn?
As to Maradona I did not like him. Not for scoring that goal but for the fact he gloated about it for years rather than just either ignore it or hold his hand up at the time.
I remain convinced that, good as the second goal looks, had their minds not been scrambled by what happened just a couple of minutes earlier he would not have got as far as the box because someone would have made sure he hit the deck before getting that far. Barnes goal v Brazil was far better in my eyes.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:36 pm

Sorry Ed.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:54 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:11 pm
I remain convinced that, good as the second goal looks, had their minds not been scrambled by what happened just a couple of minutes earlier he would not have got as far as the box because someone would have made sure he hit the deck before getting that far.
I suspect that Old Git's view would be that fouling Maradona to stop him for the second goal would have been legitimate.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:01 pm

Old Git wrote:Bet Ed Johns thinks you’ve gone too far with your obsession about him.
So you have no examples. Just a supposition involving someone else.

Well now we’ve established that, we can keep this on topic now.
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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by EDJOHNS » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:30 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:54 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:11 pm
I remain convinced that, good as the second goal looks, had their minds not been scrambled by what happened just a couple of minutes earlier he would not have got as far as the box because someone would have made sure he hit the deck before getting that far.
I suspect that Old Git's view would be that fouling Maradona to stop him for the second goal would have been legitimate.
I think old git would have been joined by every Sky analyst past and present. Especially Red Nev.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by H1987 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:45 pm

Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am
H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Are you ok? I'm not sure you should be calling anyone else sensitive. You're clearly the angriest person on this thread.

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by H1987 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:48 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:54 pm
EDJOHNS wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:11 pm
I remain convinced that, good as the second goal looks, had their minds not been scrambled by what happened just a couple of minutes earlier he would not have got as far as the box because someone would have made sure he hit the deck before getting that far.
I suspect that Old Git's view would be that fouling Maradona to stop him for the second goal would have been legitimate.
But surely that would be cheating...

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Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:53 pm

H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:45 pm
Old Git wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:51 am
H1987 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:55 pm
Old Git wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:31 pm
You are either on the windup or being completely ridiculous. Either way give your head a shake.
Man who made a thread to insult the recently deceased because of one incident in a football game over 30 years ago thinks that someone else should give their head a shake. :lol: Righto.
The fact remains he was a cheat and a drug addict and you want to rewrite the facts because he is now dead. Not content with that you seek to blame others for his failings. Suppose now The Yorkshire Ripper has died we will have to be careful how we refer to him in case we offend some sensitive souls.
Are you ok? I'm not sure you should be calling anyone else sensitive. You're clearly the angriest person on this thread.
Why do you think I use the name Old Git ? Of course I am an angry person what else would you expect me to be ? You can disagree with me but that just makes me even angrier!!!
Sorry need a time out to phone my psychiatrist.

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