Diego Maradona

Open now for discussion of all things Darlo!

Moderators: mikkyx, uncovered

Spratts corner
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:36 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Spratts corner » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:57 pm

Does Thierry Henry come into the same category as Diego ? He also tainted his reputation by deliberately cheating against Ireland

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 4708
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:18 pm

Spratts corner wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:57 pm
Does Thierry Henry come into the same category as Diego ? He also tainted his reputation by deliberately cheating against Ireland
Ah :D The Terry Enry question.

Obviously his one off multiple handball was a very devious offence but I think he did it kind of "off the cuff" so to speak.

Maradona on the other hand practised his handball goal scoring skills and scored using this technique on other occasions.

So in answer to your question I would say no, different category.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

lo36789
Posts: 9079
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Liverpool

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm

That's not fair.

Any player who has deliberately fouled an opponent, committed a deliberate handball offence, exaggerated contact to get a foul / penalty, appealed for a decision they knew to be correct.

All of the above are cheats and should be viewed equally.

An ex-darlo players once told me that a refs job is to manage 22 cheats so it isn't an uncommon view!

Old Git
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:31 pm

Spratts corner wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:57 pm
Does Thierry Henry come into the same category as Diego ? He also tainted his reputation by deliberately cheating against Ireland
For me he definitely tainted his reputation. You could argue it was possibly not as premeditated as Maradona’s but the end result was the same so he also cheated. Not always a big fan of VAR but if it stops these obvious cases then it is a big plus.

al_quaker
Posts: 5724
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:51 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by al_quaker » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:54 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm
That's not fair.

Any player who has deliberately fouled an opponent, committed a deliberate handball offence, exaggerated contact to get a foul / penalty, appealed for a decision they knew to be correct.

All of the above are cheats and should be viewed equally.

Only if you view the act of cheating as dichotomous. I would argue cheating in fact is more of a scale and that some cheating is worse than others.

User avatar
theoriginalfatcat
Posts: 4708
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:21 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:54 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm
That's not fair.

Any player who has deliberately fouled an opponent, committed a deliberate handball offence, exaggerated contact to get a foul / penalty, appealed for a decision they knew to be correct.

All of the above are cheats and should be viewed equally.

Only if you view the act of cheating as dichotomous. I would argue cheating in fact is more of a scale and that some cheating is worse than others.
That's what I was attempting to put over and I too think lo is wrong when he judges this on a one size fits all gauge.

Referees (Lo!) have a scale re bad behaviour, call it cheating if you like. That's why they apply different punishments - a talking to, a yellow card, a red card. A ref wouldn't send someone off for taking a throw in at the wrong place, but he would for a deliberate handball on the goal line or biting an opponent.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

lo36789
Posts: 9079
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Liverpool

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:04 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:21 pm
al_quaker wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:54 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm
That's not fair.

Any player who has deliberately fouled an opponent, committed a deliberate handball offence, exaggerated contact to get a foul / penalty, appealed for a decision they knew to be correct.

All of the above are cheats and should be viewed equally.

Only if you view the act of cheating as dichotomous. I would argue cheating in fact is more of a scale and that some cheating is worse than others.
That's what I was attempting to put over and I too think lo is wrong when he judges this on a one size fits all gauge.

Referees (Lo!) have a scale re bad behaviour, call it cheating if you like. That's why they apply different punishments - a talking to, a yellow card, a red card. A ref wouldn't send someone off for taking a throw in at the wrong place, but he would for a deliberate handball on the goal line or biting an opponent.
Indeed and a deliberate handball to score a goal would be a yellow card.

On par with taking your time over a throw in when 1-0 up to wind the clock down, or returning to the field of play from injury without getting referee permission...that sort of level of cheating.

Vokuhila
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:14 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Darlo

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Vokuhila » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:31 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:18 pm
Spratts corner wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:57 pm
Does Thierry Henry come into the same category as Diego? He also tainted his reputation by deliberately cheating against Ireland
Ah :D The Terry Enry question.

Obviously his one off multiple handball was a very devious offence but I think he did it kind of "off the cuff" so to speak.

Maradona on the other hand practised his handball goal scoring skills and scored using this technique on other occasions.

So in answer to your question I would say no, different category.
I'm still not convinced that 'Le Hand of God' was actually a deliberate act of cheating/very devious offence, especially now I've watched it again - both handballs look like instinctive/reflex movements to me rather than premeditated. Maybe I'm being naïve though.

Henry's celebration after the goal wasn't great, but at least he was contrite in the aftermath of the game - I seem to remember him even saying publically the game should be replayed.

Personally, I think cheating should be allowed, but only when it's comically obvious: your Steven-Taylor-versus-Villas etc.

al_quaker
Posts: 5724
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:51 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by al_quaker » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:48 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:04 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:21 pm
al_quaker wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:54 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm
That's not fair.

Any player who has deliberately fouled an opponent, committed a deliberate handball offence, exaggerated contact to get a foul / penalty, appealed for a decision they knew to be correct.

All of the above are cheats and should be viewed equally.

Only if you view the act of cheating as dichotomous. I would argue cheating in fact is more of a scale and that some cheating is worse than others.
That's what I was attempting to put over and I too think lo is wrong when he judges this on a one size fits all gauge.

Referees (Lo!) have a scale re bad behaviour, call it cheating if you like. That's why they apply different punishments - a talking to, a yellow card, a red card. A ref wouldn't send someone off for taking a throw in at the wrong place, but he would for a deliberate handball on the goal line or biting an opponent.
Indeed and a deliberate handball to score a goal would be a yellow card.

On par with taking your time over a throw in when 1-0 up to wind the clock down, or returning to the field of play from injury without getting referee permission...that sort of level of cheating.
Only if you view cheating as trichotomous, rather than a scale. Just because the outcome of the cheating is trichotomised (foul, yellow, red) doesn't necessarily mean that believe the underlying process (i.e. the cheating) is trichotomous. I don't believe that time wasting is the same level of cheating as deliberate handball to score a goal even though they are both (apparently) yellow card offences. You, of course, may well do so.

User avatar
don'tbuythesun
Posts: 1905
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:24 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by don'tbuythesun » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:30 am

That's really interesting. All the vitriol over a yellow card offence!

Old Git
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:39 am

There is a real anomaly here in that a deliberate hand ball to score a goal is a yellow card offence and deliberately handling the ball to prevent a goal is a red card offence. Surely both are blatant cheating and should carry the same punishment.

lo36789
Posts: 9079
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington
Location: Liverpool

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by lo36789 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:36 am

Old Git wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:39 am
There is a real anomaly here in that a deliberate hand ball to score a goal is a yellow card offence and deliberately handling the ball to prevent a goal is a red card offence. Surely both are blatant cheating and should carry the same punishment
Baseline deliberate handball is a yellow card. Wherever that happens on the pitch. It's the same as any professional foul (or cheating as has now been redefined).

Denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity is a red card.

You know what would infuriate you more. Deliberately holding / pulling a goalkeeper in the penalty area to stop him/her making a save would most likely be just a free kick if seen.

Old Git
Posts: 827
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Diego Maradona

Post by Old Git » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:17 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:36 am
Old Git wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:39 am
There is a real anomaly here in that a deliberate hand ball to score a goal is a yellow card offence and deliberately handling the ball to prevent a goal is a red card offence. Surely both are blatant cheating and should carry the same punishment
Baseline deliberate handball is a yellow card. Wherever that happens on the pitch. It's the same as any professional foul (or cheating as has now been redefined).

Denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity is a red card.

You know what would infuriate you more. Deliberately holding / pulling a goalkeeper in the penalty area to stop him/her making a save would most likely be just a free kick if seen.
Just about everything infuriates me that is why I am an old git.

Post Reply