Home Kit Vote

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Spyman
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Spyman » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:19 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:58 pm
Spyman wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Spyman wrote:
As for the vote and who gets to vote, I can see why it's done that way and it's fine with me (I would say that, as I get a vote), but plenty of clubs don't allow their fans a vote on the kit at all, so even if it's a limited pool of voters it's still more of a fan-perk than many get.
Difference is Darlington FC is fan-owned, and doesn’t limit its calls for funding to a limited group of supporters.
Yes, but Darlington FC doesn't ask it's fans to vote on absolutely everything. Why should fans being asked to donate money get to vote on the kit, but not the walk-on music?
Sorry but that’s a bad argument. As a fanbase we don’t expect a collective vote about the walk-on music. Nor is the walk-on music really a part of the club’s identity.

But it is established precedent that fans collectively can vote on the home kit. We’ve done that for years.
And a club’s home kit is about as big an expression of identity as you can get.

Now, mysteriously just as the club board is looking to move away from hoops, the people who can vote on it are restricted.
They may have made the decision to restrict the vote to members in order to prevent any malicious voting. It's happened with other clubs in the past. I mean, if I was a Hartlepool fan I know which one I would vote for!
We don't need another Mr Poopoo incident.

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StevieMardenboro
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by StevieMardenboro » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:55 pm

I would like a change from hoops but from these four I think the kind of hooped one is maybe the least bad. 3 is also Ok I guess.

4 is horrible and 2 if chosen would overtake the 96-97 soccerdome kit as the biggest pile of s**te Darlo have ever been seen in.

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Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 am

Broken Hoops v Sash in the final.

34 psychopaths voted for option 2, presumably for a bit of a laugh.
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jjljks
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by jjljks » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:17 am

Mr Trump has a point about rigged voting systems, in fact the need for a change in shirts is fake news. He sponsored the orange strip worn at Farsley as it was the exact same colour as himself.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by lo36789 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:51 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:13 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:35 pm
I don't think restricting it to YOURCLUB members is an issue. It is right that the owners get a say and that is what the YOURCLUB members are aren't they for their £20 a year membership.
Yet come Boost The Budget, the club wants all fans to put money in, not just YOURCLUB members. Can't have it both ways. There are plenty of benefits YOURCLUB members get for their £25 (not £20). Don't see why a bulk of supporters need to be excluded from having a say on the home kit, which is perhaps the biggest expression of identity there is.

A fan-funded club which disenfranchises a chunk of its own supporters. Bit of a weird strategy if you ask me.

And as I've said before, there are many reasons why some supporters can't sign up to YOURCLUB.
lo36789 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:35 pm
Also makes it easy to administer through the poll option.
Club have managed perfectly well in the past, and are making the away kit vote open to all fans, so this logic is clearly rubbish.
lo36789 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:35 pm
See what comes out if it is only a kit design, and a bit of fun after all.
In English please??
Spyman probably put all my points but in a better way - and the potential for the vote to be taken over by non-owners also covered.

I don't really know what means you do and don't get YOURCLUB access. I am fully paid up member of DFCSG, clearly don't pay enough attention to how much comes out, but also have my £100 a month BtB. Both appear on my YOURCLUB account so I assumed both would have got me access as they are clearly linked to me somehow.

I am sure it was reported that we have about 1000 YOURCLUB members or was that a target? I am not sure that a bulk of the fan base is actually missing as a result. Also I am also pretty sure it's been confirmed before that generally speaking the same people who BtB tend to be the same ones who are DFCSG members.

Fundamentally I just don't think it's a bad perk to add to being a DFCSG member. If it encourages more fans to become members that's a good thing.

All I meant with the last sentence is it is just a kit design. They are all black and white, people will either buy it or they won't, but it is just a kit design so it's a bit of fun. If we play in a kit people don't like for a year it gets changed next year.

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Quaker85
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:54 am

Yarblockos wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:58 pm
Spyman wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Spyman wrote:
As for the vote and who gets to vote, I can see why it's done that way and it's fine with me (I would say that, as I get a vote), but plenty of clubs don't allow their fans a vote on the kit at all, so even if it's a limited pool of voters it's still more of a fan-perk than many get.
Difference is Darlington FC is fan-owned, and doesn’t limit its calls for funding to a limited group of supporters.
Yes, but Darlington FC doesn't ask it's fans to vote on absolutely everything. Why should fans being asked to donate money get to vote on the kit, but not the walk-on music?
Sorry but that’s a bad argument. As a fanbase we don’t expect a collective vote about the walk-on music. Nor is the walk-on music really a part of the club’s identity.

But it is established precedent that fans collectively can vote on the home kit. We’ve done that for years.
And a club’s home kit is about as big an expression of identity as you can get.

Now, mysteriously just as the club board is looking to move away from hoops, the people who can vote on it are restricted.
They may have made the decision to restrict the vote to members in order to prevent any malicious voting. It's happened with other clubs in the past. I mean, if I was a Hartlepool fan I know which one I would vote for!
Why put the club in such a perilous position where they are vulnerable to malicious voting by offering a shirt so hideous in the first place?


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Quaker85
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:21 am

I missed the vote for the semi final but just tried to vote in the final and got a message saying I’d already voted when I haven’t!

Anyone else got this?


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divas
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by divas » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:35 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:54 am
Yarblockos wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:58 pm
Spyman wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Difference is Darlington FC is fan-owned, and doesn’t limit its calls for funding to a limited group of supporters.
Yes, but Darlington FC doesn't ask it's fans to vote on absolutely everything. Why should fans being asked to donate money get to vote on the kit, but not the walk-on music?
Sorry but that’s a bad argument. As a fanbase we don’t expect a collective vote about the walk-on music. Nor is the walk-on music really a part of the club’s identity.

But it is established precedent that fans collectively can vote on the home kit. We’ve done that for years.
And a club’s home kit is about as big an expression of identity as you can get.

Now, mysteriously just as the club board is looking to move away from hoops, the people who can vote on it are restricted.
They may have made the decision to restrict the vote to members in order to prevent any malicious voting. It's happened with other clubs in the past. I mean, if I was a Hartlepool fan I know which one I would vote for!
Why put the club in such a perilous position where they are vulnerable to malicious voting by offering a shirt so hideous in the first place?


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Plan has always been for owners to vote on the home shirt but hasn’t been possible until a platform was built to allow it. Has zero to do with any designs made available.

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divas
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by divas » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:35 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:21 am
I missed the vote for the semi final but just tried to vote in the final and got a message saying I’d already voted when I haven’t!

Anyone else got this?


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Send a message via the yourclub contact form and it will be looked into for you

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Quaker85
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:08 pm

divas wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:21 am
I missed the vote for the semi final but just tried to vote in the final and got a message saying I’d already voted when I haven’t!

Anyone else got this?


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Send a message via the yourclub contact form and it will be looked into for you
Thanks Divas


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Darlogramps
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Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:51 am

I am sure it was reported that we have about 1000 YOURCLUB members or was that a target? I am not sure that a bulk of the fan base is actually missing as a result. Also I am also pretty sure it's been confirmed before that generally speaking the same people who BtB tend to be the same ones who are DFCSG members.
If you're pretty sure they're true then I'm sure you can find the confirmation.

However, it is definitive that more than 1800 voted on the home kit last season.
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/kit-vot ... -winner-is

This time, it's not even 350. https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/vote-fo ... -kit-final

So clearly a lot of people have been disenfranchised by limiting the voting numbers. This is very strange behaviour for a club owned and run by its fans.

And if your figure of 1,000 is true, that would suggest nearly 2/3s are rejecting the chance to even vote, providing even less justification for limiting the voting numbers. Unless of course the DFCSG board are trying to get the result they want.
lo36789 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:51 am
Fundamentally I just don't think it's a bad perk to add to being a DFCSG member. If it encourages more fans to become members that's a good thing.
My point is an issue like this, which is about the identity of the club, should be available to all fans. Not just the privileged few.
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divas
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by divas » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:42 pm

The greatest thing about a democratically run, fan owned football club is everyone has the power to initiate change if so desired.

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Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:48 pm

divas wrote:The greatest thing about a democratically run, fan owned football club is everyone has the power to initiate change if so desired.
Depends if you have the same agenda as those at the top of the DFCSG....
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Old Git » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:49 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:49 pm
Spyman wrote:
As for the vote and who gets to vote, I can see why it's done that way and it's fine with me (I would say that, as I get a vote), but plenty of clubs don't allow their fans a vote on the kit at all, so even if it's a limited pool of voters it's still more of a fan-perk than many get.
Difference is Darlington FC is fan-owned, and doesn’t limit its calls for funding to a limited group of supporters.
Gramps are you a fully paid up member of DFCSG ?
Notice you have failed to answer the question. Would be interested to know the answer as it might throw some light on your stance on the matter. You are of course entitled to remain silent if you wish to. So either yes no or prefer not to say will suffice.
For the record I am a member of DFCSG.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by eek » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:49 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 am
Broken Hoops v Sash in the final.

34 psychopaths voted for option 2, presumably for a bit of a laugh.
It annoyed a friend so much that it was worth it - especially as 3 is the best of a bad set of options.

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Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:03 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 pm

Notice you have failed to answer the question. Would be interested to know the answer as it might throw some light on your stance on the matter. You are of course entitled to remain silent if you wish to. So either yes no or prefer not to say will suffice.
For the record I am a member of DFCSG.
To be fair, I didn't see your reply. I think my stance and motives are fairly clear to be honest. I don't really see what being a DFCSG member has to do with it. But to answer your question, I am a member.

But I don't agree with other supporters being disenfranchised by others who have certain agendas. The club and DFCSG board are on record as wanting to change our kit design. They said this during last year's vote.

I don't actually believe it's anything to do with wanting more sales. Our sales of this season's kit actually outstripped (no pun intended) previous years. I don't have the latest numbers, but in the early days, it was well ahead of previous kits: https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/record- ... nly-a-week

I actually think it's a handful of supporters at the top want us to move away from hoops because they don't believe it's our identity. They tried last year to exclude hoops from being an option at all.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by lo36789 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:21 pm

"handful of supporters at the top" by that assume you mean those who were democratically voted for by the owners of the club?

As Divas said there are opportunities to initiate change if so desired.

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Robbie Painter » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:28 pm

I've been reading this thread with interest & enjoying the debate. I want to clear a couple of things up.

The kit design & final 4 choice process isn't directed by the DFCSG Board. There is a kit group, headed by Jon Saddington this year, that has worked with Joma to come up with the final four options presented to the fans. As the designs have progressed along they have been shared with both DFC & DFCSG Boards for feedback. There is some more detail below on how we got to the final four designs this year.

Regarding the voting change for home shirts, that is a strategic decision taken unanimously by the DFCSG Board. It a key objective to both reward our fan owners and grow the total number signing up to be DFC owners. The more fans we have signing up as owners the stronger we are as a club. Giving owners the vote on the home shirt helps differentiate ownership and we've seen fans signing up this weekend to vote which is fantastic. At just over £2 per month to become an owner we don't see price as a barrier for the vast majority of our fanbase.

The away shirt, which changes colour and design each year, isn't a core part of the club's identity (unlike the home shirt) and voting on the away shirt choice will be open to all fans.

The home shirt vote always produces a range of opinions each year and all the comments and feedback are read. The kit group working on shirt options are all passionate Darlo fans and care about getting shirts that we can all be proud to see worn by the team next season.

The kit designs are produced by a combination of club volunteers working with the kit manufacturer to produce a range of options. There are always template and design restrictions to work within alongside the need to provide a change from the previous season’s shirt. The challenge this season has been made more complicated due to the pandemic & switch to Joma limiting stock design options and extending manufacturing timescales.

Whilst overall, home & away, shirt sales are strong this year home shirt sales are down year on year from last season. Regardless maximising shirt sales is not the priority when producing the shirt designs. We took onboard the feedback from last season to always include a hooped option and that is provided for with option #1.
Last edited by Robbie Painter on Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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loan_star
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by loan_star » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:30 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:21 pm
"handful of supporters at the top" by that assume you mean those who were democratically voted for by the owners of the club?

As Divas said there are opportunities to initiate change if so desired.
The ones that give their time freely for the benefit of the club.
Its like when Joma were announced there was criticism of the choice for various reasons, yet those at the top will have done their homework and made the best decision for the club based on all the information that only they will have seen.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:47 pm

lo36789 wrote:"handful of supporters at the top" by that assume you mean those who were democratically voted for by the owners of the club?

As Divas said there are opportunities to initiate change if so desired.
And? Just because they were elected doesn’t mean they can’t pursue particular agendas. The DFCSG board are on record as wanting to change the kit. They attempted to do so last year.
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Old Git » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:58 pm

Fair comment Robbie I agree with the majority of what you say except the bit about providing a hooped option. Option 1 is a long way from the traditional hooped shirt that I would expect to see. It looks like I have sewn it together and made an absolute mess of it. For once I have to agree with Gramps it looks like the Board are providing such a poor hooped option to make it likely that another design will be chosen.
It is only a shirt design so we will have to accept the result and get over it as in the scheme of things there are much more important issues to deal with. All in all the DFCSG Board are doing a great job and I for one will be happy to keep paying my membership.

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Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:02 pm

Robbie Painter wrote: The kit design & final 4 choice process isn't directed by the DFCSG Board. There is a kit group, headed by Jon Saddington this year, that has worked with Joma to come up with the final four options presented to the fans. As the designs have progressed along they have been shared with both DFC & DFCSG Boards for feedback.
With respect, Jon Saddington is a member of the DFCSG board. And the DFC and DFCSG boards feedback on the designs, suggesting a level of influence. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but the designs need a level of approval (either formal or informal) from one or both boards before going to a vote.

Robbie Painter wrote: Regarding the voting change for home shirts, that is a strategic decision taken unanimously by the DFCSG Board. It a key objective to both reward our fan owners and grow the total number signing up to be DFC owners. The more fans we have signing up as owners the stronger we are as a club. Giving owners the vote on the home shirt helps differentiate ownership and we've seen fans signing up this weekend to vote which is fantastic. At just over £2 per month to become an owner we don't see price as a barrier for the vast majority of our fanbase .
Roughly how many members does the DFCSG have? Less than 350 voted in the semis, considerably less than 12 months ago (according to the club, in excess of 1800 votes were cast). In my view it’s hard to justify the same the next year given the significant drop in engagement.

It may not seem like it, but I think the DFCSG do have the best interests of the club at heart. I have no personal animosity to any board members.

However I do massively disagree with the way this vote is being carried out. The DFCSG board let the cat out of the bag last year by saying they wanted change and excluding hoops altogether. Now they limit the numbers and put forward a poor hoops design. It feels underhand to me.
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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by beatroute66 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:20 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:58 pm
Fair comment Robbie I agree with the majority of what you say except the bit about providing a hooped option. Option 1 is a long way from the traditional hooped shirt that I would expect to see. It looks like I have sewn it together and made an absolute mess of it. For once I have to agree with Gramps it looks like the Board are providing such a poor hooped option to make it likely that another design will be chosen.
It is only a shirt design so we will have to accept the result and get over it as in the scheme of things there are much more important issues to deal with. All in all the DFCSG Board are doing a great job and I for one will be happy to keep paying my membership.
Just to make the point that I am on the board, I'd personally have us in hoops every season (as with Celtic, say) and I really like option 1 as a slightly different take on it.

I've been on the board and working for/with the club for 12 months now. I've spotted zero agenda.

Also, a fair few seem to be forgetting that this is all down to personal opinion and should be, in reality, a fun thing to do. I personally want #1 to win, if not then #3. If I don't get my way, then so be it. I wanted an orange away shirt last season and it didn't happen, but I also really like this season's away kit too.

The kit is important and so is identity but, as you say, there are bigger things to worry about. Those who are turning the kit vote process into a conspiracy theory are just so driving down the wrong street, trust me.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by lo36789 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:04 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:02 pm
However I do massively disagree with the way this vote is being carried out. The DFCSG board let the cat out of the bag last year by saying they wanted change and excluding hoops altogether.
Aren't a good proportion of the DFCSG board only 3 months in role due to 2 stepping down and 3 having to retire from their positions, plus an extra place as only 11 / 12 roles were previously filled. Good job they all got their story in line quickly to conspire on home kit choice.

I have voted number 1 as think it looks quite smart and has clearly been inspired by a hoops design.

I liked the quarters which was suggested a few years ago though and have been really keen for one of those options to come back round (hopefully next year).
Last edited by lo36789 on Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by 50 years » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:08 pm

Which ever one is chosen I will be buying as it is different. Personally just glad that there is a change of options.
I for one am happy with the volunteers doing all the hard work in sorting this for the benefit of the club, as mentioned previously I am too lazy myself to get involved so certainly not going to criticise others hard work.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by beatroute66 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:18 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:04 pm
Aren't a good proportion of the DFCSG board only 3 months in role due to 2 stepping down and 3 having to retire from their position and only 11 / 12 place previously being filled. Good job they all got their story in line quickly to conspire on home kit choice.
No. I'm the "4th youngest" in terms of tenure on the board and I'm 12 months in now.

We've just had elections where there were more candidates than vacancies.

And, as posted above, no "story" or agenda on kits, I'm afraid.

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Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:30 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:02 pm
However I do massively disagree with the way this vote is being carried out. The DFCSG board let the cat out of the bag last year by saying they wanted change and excluding hoops altogether.
Aren't a good proportion of the DFCSG board only 3 months in role due to 2 stepping down and 3 having to retire from their positions, plus an extra place as only 11 / 12 roles were previously filled. Good job they all got their story in line quickly to conspire on home kit choice.
Lol. Totally wrong, as confirmed by a board member. You know that thing about thinking things through before you type, you never learn.
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Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:36 pm

beatroute66 wrote:
Old Git wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:58 pm
Fair comment Robbie I agree with the majority of what you say except the bit about providing a hooped option. Option 1 is a long way from the traditional hooped shirt that I would expect to see. It looks like I have sewn it together and made an absolute mess of it. For once I have to agree with Gramps it looks like the Board are providing such a poor hooped option to make it likely that another design will be chosen.
It is only a shirt design so we will have to accept the result and get over it as in the scheme of things there are much more important issues to deal with. All in all the DFCSG Board are doing a great job and I for one will be happy to keep paying my membership.
Just to make the point that I am on the board, I'd personally have us in hoops every season (as with Celtic, say) and I really like option 1 as a slightly different take on it.

I've been on the board and working for/with the club for 12 months now. I've spotted zero agenda.

Also, a fair few seem to be forgetting that this is all down to personal opinion and should be, in reality, a fun thing to do. I personally want #1 to win, if not then #3. If I don't get my way, then so be it. I wanted an orange away shirt last season and it didn't happen, but I also really like this season's away kit too.

The kit is important and so is identity but, as you say, there are bigger things to worry about. Those who are turning the kit vote process into a conspiracy theory are just so driving down the wrong street, trust me.
The trouble is the club and DFCSG boards made their bed by trying to remove hoops even as an option last year, and making it so clear they wanted to change the kit against fans’ wishes (given hoops was eventually chosen after a backlash).

Any mistrust of the process stems from that.
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EDJOHNS
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:56 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by EDJOHNS » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:51 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:51 am


My point is an issue like this, which is about the identity of the club, should be available to all fans. Not just the privileged few.
25 quid a year to join and can be done by monthly direct debit for about 2 quid a month. Hardly a massive hurdle stopping people from having the ability to vote.

Darlogramps
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:47 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: Home Kit Vote

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:55 pm

EDJOHNS wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:51 am


My point is an issue like this, which is about the identity of the club, should be available to all fans. Not just the privileged few.
25 quid a year to join and can be done by monthly direct debit for about 2 quid a month. Hardly a massive hurdle stopping people from having the ability to vote.
1800 votes last year to 350 this year suggests otherwise.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

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