David Johnson : We are in a sad position

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Footifanreturns
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David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Footifanreturns » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:26 am

As usual a great interview from Ray Simpson with David Johnson to keep us as owners of the club in the picture regarding the 2 week suspension & the chances of the season continuing.
Nothing to reveal that we didn't really know but good to hear the clarification from DJ.

Again DJ was very frank & open about the options.
It would need a minimum of £200,000 in loans to see the season out, which would have to be repaid & hang over the club for up to 20 years which is ludicrous.
He stated he is not prepared to do that which is no surprise.
With the fact that there is no testing paid for, unlike higher in the pyramid, it was not fair to put players, staff & their families at risk.
Although a separate issue to the club funding it was equally important to get that resolved if by some miracle the season does continue.
Some players have pregnant wives, live with older parents etc... Putting them & their loved ones at risk. Plus of course interaction in players workplaces again adding to the chance of infection.

One surprising fact, well to me at least, was that to furlough the players would cost more than if grants were issued by the Lottery or the government.

Again as no major surprise it doesn't look good for this season to be completed.

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-were ... d-position

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Alfie » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:00 am

As DJ said safety is as important as the money, so on that basis unless everything he asked for in terms of testing is quickly put in place then we should withdraw from the trophy?

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by JasonDeVos » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:36 am

Footifanreturns wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:26 am
As usual a great interview from Ray Simpson with David Johnson to keep us as owners of the club in the picture regarding the 2 week suspension & the chances of the season continuing.
Nothing to reveal that we didn't really know but good to hear the clarification from DJ.

Again DJ was very frank & open about the options.
It would need a minimum of £200,000 in loans to see the season out, which would have to be repaid & hang over the club for up to 20 years which is ludicrous.
He stated he is not prepared to do that which is no surprise.
With the fact that there is no testing paid for, unlike higher in the pyramid, it was not fair to put players, staff & their families at risk.
Although a separate issue to the club funding it was equally important to get that resolved if by some miracle the season does continue.
Some players have pregnant wives, live with older parents etc... Putting them & their loved ones at risk. Plus of course interaction in players workplaces again adding to the chance of infection.

One surprising fact, well to me at least, was that to furlough the players would cost more than if grants were issued by the Lottery or the government.

Would not like to take him on the legality of being forced to take on the loans.

Again as no major surprise it doesn't look good for this season to be completed.

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-were ... d-position
Absolute sense yet again. Breaks it all down to simple terms for us all. Fully behind him.

It is a huge benefit to us that we under the money side better as fan owed. Other teams fan just want to take loans to keep going not worrying about how it will be ever paid back.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:26 am

The majority of National League clubs, and some at our level, didn’t seem to be to bothered about taking option 2. With that now off the table it changes the landscape completely, as they’ll be more reluctant to take hundreds of thousands of pounds in direct loans they are liable to pay for.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by jjljks » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:25 am

Footifanreturns wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:26 am
As usual a great interview from Ray Simpson with David Johnson to keep us as owners of the club in the picture regarding the 2 week suspension & the chances of the season continuing.
Nothing to reveal that we didn't really know but good to hear the clarification from DJ.

Again DJ was very frank & open about the options.
It would need a minimum of £200,000 in loans to see the season out, which would have to be repaid & hang over the club for up to 20 years which is ludicrous.
He stated he is not prepared to do that which is no surprise.
With the fact that there is no testing paid for, unlike higher in the pyramid, it was not fair to put players, staff & their families at risk.
Although a separate issue to the club funding it was equally important to get that resolved if by some miracle the season does continue.
Some players have pregnant wives, live with older parents etc... Putting them & their loved ones at risk. Plus of course interaction in players workplaces again adding to the chance of infection.

One surprising fact, well to me at least, was that to furlough the players would cost more than if grants were issued by the Lottery or the government.

Again as no major surprise it doesn't look good for this season to be completed.

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/dj-were ... d-position
Well worth the listen and whilst the news is bad, good to have DJ at the helm of our club with DFC's future at the heart of it all.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by bga » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:34 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:26 am
The majority of National League clubs, and some at our level, didn’t seem to be to bothered about taking option 2. With that now off the table it changes the landscape completely, as they’ll be more reluctant to take hundreds of thousands of pounds in direct loans they are liable to pay for.
Option 1 and 2 are fundamentally the same both are Loans but is just who you borrow from and repay that is different isn't it?

Old Git
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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Old Git » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:40 am

As usual DJ talks a lot of sense and it is reassuring to know he is leading us through these unprecedented times.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:18 am

bga wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:34 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:26 am
The majority of National League clubs, and some at our level, didn’t seem to be to bothered about taking option 2. With that now off the table it changes the landscape completely, as they’ll be more reluctant to take hundreds of thousands of pounds in direct loans they are liable to pay for.
Option 1 and 2 are fundamentally the same both are Loans but is just who you borrow from and repay that is different isn't it?
No.

Option 1 is a direct loan from Sport England to clubs. Clubs would then have to re-pay this, with interest, over a period of 10+ years.

Option 2 is a loan from Sport England to the National League, who then distribute this to clubs as grants. Clubs don't make repayments to the National League as such, but instead have to accept a funding cut each season from the National League's central funding distribution over the next 10+ years. You're potentially talking about us having a shortfall of £15k-£20k each season for the next 10+ years.

Option 2 is very bad, but option 1 is even worse. As these loans will be direct to clubs, they will have to be recorded in the accounts as a debt/liability, making the balance sheet look worse. This will impact football club's ability to lend in the future and - potentially - force clubs to trade insolvent. There would also be the potential there for these loans to have to be secured in the event of non-payment (against assets etc).

You can see why owners in the National League, and some at our level, were willing to support option 2. £15k - £50k shortfall per year is small fry to them, and something which they could subsidise themselves over the next 10+ years in order to attempt to get promoted this year. Or, they may not plan to be at the club long-term, so it won't actually be their problem 3+ years down the line.

However, the truth is, having the National League in debt to Sport England by £10m-£11m would not bring anything positive at all even if all clubs supported option 2. It would weaken the National League's position in so many areas to even get in to.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by bga » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:34 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:18 am
bga wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:34 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:26 am
The majority of National League clubs, and some at our level, didn’t seem to be to bothered about taking option 2. With that now off the table it changes the landscape completely, as they’ll be more reluctant to take hundreds of thousands of pounds in direct loans they are liable to pay for.
Option 1 and 2 are fundamentally the same both are Loans but is just who you borrow from and repay that is different isn't it?
No.

Option 1 is a direct loan from Sport England to clubs. Clubs would then have to re-pay this, with interest, over a period of 10+ years.

Option 2 is a loan from Sport England to the National League, who then distribute this to clubs as grants. Clubs don't make repayments to the National League as such, but instead have to accept a funding cut each season from the National League's central funding distribution over the next 10+ years. You're potentially talking about us having a shortfall of £15k-£20k each season for the next 10+ years.

Option 2 is very bad, but option 1 is even worse. As these loans will be direct to clubs, they will have to be recorded in the accounts as a debt/liability, making the balance sheet look worse. This will impact football club's ability to lend in the future and - potentially - force clubs to trade insolvent. There would also be the potential there for these loans to have to be secured in the event of non-payment (against assets etc).

You can see why owners in the National League, and some at our level, were willing to support option 2. £15k - £50k shortfall per year is small fry to them, and something which they could subsidise themselves over the next 10+ years in order to attempt to get promoted this year. Or, they may not plan to be at the club long-term, so it won't actually be their problem 3+ years down the line.

However, the truth is, having the National League in debt to Sport England by £10m-£11m would not bring anything positive at all even if all clubs supported option 2. It would weaken the National League's position in so many areas to even get in to.
Thanks for that explanation. I had only read the summary on the Club website which had none of those details.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by spen666 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:34 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:18 am
bga wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:34 am
Darlofan97 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:26 am
The majority of National League clubs, and some at our level, didn’t seem to be to bothered about taking option 2. With that now off the table it changes the landscape completely, as they’ll be more reluctant to take hundreds of thousands of pounds in direct loans they are liable to pay for.
Option 1 and 2 are fundamentally the same both are Loans but is just who you borrow from and repay that is different isn't it?
No.

Option 1 is a direct loan from Sport England to clubs. Clubs would then have to re-pay this, with interest, over a period of 10+ years.

Option 2 is a loan from Sport England to the National League, who then distribute this to clubs as grants. Clubs don't make repayments to the National League as such, but instead have to accept a funding cut each season from the National League's central funding distribution over the next 10+ years. You're potentially talking about us having a shortfall of £15k-£20k each season for the next 10+ years.

Option 2 is very bad, but option 1 is even worse. As these loans will be direct to clubs, they will have to be recorded in the accounts as a debt/liability, making the balance sheet look worse. This will impact football club's ability to lend in the future and - potentially - force clubs to trade insolvent. There would also be the potential there for these loans to have to be secured in the event of non-payment (against assets etc).

You can see why owners in the National League, and some at our level, were willing to support option 2. £15k - £50k shortfall per year is small fry to them, and something which they could subsidise themselves over the next 10+ years in order to attempt to get promoted this year. Or, they may not plan to be at the club long-term, so it won't actually be their problem 3+ years down the line.

However, the truth is, having the National League in debt to Sport England by £10m-£11m would not bring anything positive at all even if all clubs supported option 2. It would weaken the National League's position in so many areas to even get in to.

I agree with your analysis.

option 2 the more you think about it is something not thought through by whoever proposed it.

for example - how are the league going to distribute the money they loan? Equal shares to all clubs? If so - then clubs like Chester & York will complain they are not getting enough funds to cover their lost gate money and Curzon, Bradford etc get more than they have lost. [ The argument re distribution of grants]

If they distribute monies on basis of claimed lost gate income - then if say club A says they lost £300,000 and Club B lost £100,000, are they paid in the ratio of 3:1.
If the money is distributed this way and the NL reduce the annual grant to each club , is it fair that club B get the same deduction as club A even though they got the same money from NL

There are so many more issues with the 2nd option. It clearly has not been thought through properly at all.


I suspect unless there is a big climb down by one side or the other, then its the end of the season....instead we can amuse ourselves by watching York fans lose their sh*t on social media about how they shouldn't be in this division

If inste

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Old Git » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:44 pm

Looks very much like season over at least for NLN and NLS. The only thing that looks like it could change that would be a change of heart by the Government and the replacement of loans with grants.
How ironic would that be. The NLN and NLS stand up for a better deal while the NL doesn’t. We all know then that the NL would then award themselves the bulk of the cash for doing nothing.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by H1987 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:04 pm

Some of our fans would do well to remember exactly who is putting us in this position the next time they come to vote.

Not only is their position stupid and irresponsible, it’s financially illiterate too. Our staff, and the staff of other clubs, will end up furloughed and costing the public pot more in the long run.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by spen666 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:48 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:44 pm
Looks very much like season over at least for NLN and NLS. The only thing that looks like it could change that would be a change of heart by the Government and the replacement of loans with grants.
How ironic would that be. The NLN and NLS stand up for a better deal while the NL doesn’t. We all know then that the NL would then award themselves the bulk of the cash for doing nothing.

Sadly you are right-

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Yarblockos » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:13 pm

Alfie wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:00 am
As DJ said safety is as important as the money, so on that basis unless everything he asked for in terms of testing is quickly put in place then we should withdraw from the trophy?
Yep, I'd take that with a pinch of salt. If the government changed their mind and gave all clubs grants does anyone think safety concersn would prevent us starting again?

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Darlo Dodger » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:15 pm

The view from Kettering (link courtesy of Neil Johnson)

https://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/sp ... Rd6zHzZo9g

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by quaker4life » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:01 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:04 pm
Some of our fans would do well to remember exactly who is putting us in this position the next time they come to vote.
And how exactly would we go about voting down the Chinese government?

In hindsight, it begs the question of whether or not it is appropriate for public money to be used to finance football clubs during this crisis? In principal it doesn't seem unreasonable for clubs to pay back any money they've received, it is however unreasonable to expect them to risk potential long term financial hardship for what is a short term solution.

I've seen some people liken it to ITV Digital fiasco years ago when many clubs, Darlo included, were adversely affected when the bottom fell out and in some ways it is a similar situation. There has clearly been a breakdown in communication between the DCMS and the National League it beggars belief that we're this far down the line before it was discovered that funding wasn't promised by way of grants but by way of loans surely this should have been made clear at the outset and if not, why not?

This mess is a combination of a global pandemic which has left us all under a virtual house arrest and an apparent monumental cock up by both the DCMS and the NL I find it hard to believe with the sums of money involved that either party were unable to differentiate between a grant and a loan. The level of ineptitude beggars belief and they are now playing Russian Roulette with the future of many of their member clubs coupled with the already ludicrous fixture schedule this farce simply cannot continue.

From a personal point of view I believe Football at all levels should have been brought to a halt when national restrictions began earlier in the month as it did so in March last year along with other sports, also the fact at a time when the rate of infection is sky high that there has been no regular testing in place is appalling.

Long story short, call it off.
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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by loan_star » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:55 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:01 pm
H1987 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:04 pm
Some of our fans would do well to remember exactly who is putting us in this position the next time they come to vote.
And how exactly would we go about voting down the Chinese government?

In hindsight, it begs the question of whether or not it is appropriate for public money to be used to finance football clubs during this crisis? In principal it doesn't seem unreasonable for clubs to pay back any money they've received, it is however unreasonable to expect them to risk potential long term financial hardship for what is a short term solution.

I've seen some people liken it to ITV Digital fiasco years ago when many clubs, Darlo included, were adversely affected when the bottom fell out and in some ways it is a similar situation. There has clearly been a breakdown in communication between the DCMS and the National League it beggars belief that we're this far down the line before it was discovered that funding wasn't promised by way of grants but by way of loans surely this should have been made clear at the outset and if not, why not?

This mess is a combination of a global pandemic which has left us all under a virtual house arrest and an apparent monumental cock up by both the DCMS and the NL I find it hard to believe with the sums of money involved that either party were unable to differentiate between a grant and a loan. The level of ineptitude beggars belief and they are now playing Russian Roulette with the future of many of their member clubs coupled with the already ludicrous fixture schedule this farce simply cannot continue.

From a personal point of view I believe Football at all levels should have been brought to a halt when national restrictions began earlier in the month as it did so in March last year along with other sports, also the fact at a time when the rate of infection is sky high that there has been no regular testing in place is appalling.

Long story short, call it off.
:clap:

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:13 pm

quaker4life wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:04 pm
Some of our fans would do well to remember exactly who is putting us in this position the next time they come to vote.
And how exactly would we go about voting down the Chinese government?

In hindsight, it begs the question of whether or not it is appropriate for public money to be used to finance football clubs during this crisis? In principal it doesn't seem unreasonable for clubs to pay back any money they've received, it is however unreasonable to expect them to risk potential long term financial hardship for what is a short term solution.

I've seen some people liken it to ITV Digital fiasco years ago when many clubs, Darlo included, were adversely affected when the bottom fell out and in some ways it is a similar situation. There has clearly been a breakdown in communication between the DCMS and the National League it beggars belief that we're this far down the line before it was discovered that funding wasn't promised by way of grants but by way of loans surely this should have been made clear at the outset and if not, why not?

This mess is a combination of a global pandemic which has left us all under a virtual house arrest and an apparent monumental cock up by both the DCMS and the NL I find it hard to believe with the sums of money involved that either party were unable to differentiate between a grant and a loan. The level of ineptitude beggars belief and they are now playing Russian Roulette with the future of many of their member clubs coupled with the already ludicrous fixture schedule this farce simply cannot continue.

From a personal point of view I believe Football at all levels should have been brought to a halt when national restrictions began earlier in the month as it did so in March last year along with other sports, also the fact at a time when the rate of infection is sky high that there has been no regular testing in place is appalling.

Long story short, call it off.
I think this is a very fair and excellent post.

Playing Devil’s Advocate, from the Government’s point of view, why should they be handing out free money to loss-making non-league football clubs? You can argue that would be the financially illiterate option.

There’s then countless other industries that would justifiably expect the same, and the Government can’t fund them all.

But as you rightly point out, the clubs would have suffered long-term from this, particularly as we don’t know when fans can get back into grounds (I suspect it’ll be one of the last things to happen once we get back to “normal”). So given the reliance most non-league clubs have on gate income, asking them to take on more debt without means to repay them is totally unreasonable.

I do find it interesting the lack of testing has only become an issue now, when we’ve been doing this all season.
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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:27 am

To be fair, I think testing has been requested for a while now as the situation with Covid-19 has gradually deteriorated. The calls strengthened when mandatory testing was announced for the EFL 3 weeks ago.

The funding issue has, rightly or wrongly, also brought this issue to a head.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by H1987 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm

The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by loan_star » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm
The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.
Did the league board have it in writing that they were getting grants all season or were they just presuming? They have shown with their distribution of the grants that they really don't have a clue, yet you are defending them here.

With regard to testing, when the season did start the covid situation wasn't as bad as it was to become. If we are classed as elite then we should get the same treatment as all elite clubs.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Old Git » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:21 pm

Never really understood how we were classified as elite sport in the first place. I would have thought that the definition of elite sport would have been to do with whether a team was professional or semi professional.
Therefore the NL would be classed as elite because the majority of the teams and players are full time whereas the NLN and NLS are mainly semi professional. Probably the NL wanted to maintain consistency within its ranks but with the glorious benefit of hindsight maybe the line between elite and non elite lies between the NL on one side and the NLN and NLS on the other.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:55 pm

Old Git wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:21 pm
Never really understood how we were classified as elite sport in the first place. I would have thought that the definition of elite sport would have been to do with whether a team was professional or semi professional.
Therefore the NL would be classed as elite because the majority of the teams and players are full time whereas the NLN and NLS are mainly semi professional. Probably the NL wanted to maintain consistency within its ranks but with the glorious benefit of hindsight maybe the line between elite and non elite lies between the NL on one side and the NLN and NLS on the other.
I think York pushed for the 'elite' tag to enable the playoffs to take place, other teams may have too.

Our league is in no mans land. What is above us and beneath us is quite clear cut but we are neither of these, and as for the word itself 'elite' - I always thought it was a strange choice.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Norm_D_Ploom » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:58 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm
The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.
I think the point he was making is that if the Chinese military lab hadn't mistakenly released the virus ( and then covered the fact up) then there wouldn't have been a requirement for loans, grants lockdown or anything else for that matter.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by H1987 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:09 pm

loan_star wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 pm
H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm
The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.
Did the league board have it in writing that they were getting grants all season or were they just presuming? They have shown with their distribution of the grants that they really don't have a clue, yet you are defending them here.

With regard to testing, when the season did start the covid situation wasn't as bad as it was to become. If we are classed as elite then we should get the same treatment as all elite clubs.
Let's see, who do I believe... David Johnson and a coalition of different chairmen in this league, who are adamant they have been deliberately misled or lied to... or a government with a long record of shifting goalposts and outright lying...

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by loan_star » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:50 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:09 pm
loan_star wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 pm
H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm
The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.
Did the league board have it in writing that they were getting grants all season or were they just presuming? They have shown with their distribution of the grants that they really don't have a clue, yet you are defending them here.

With regard to testing, when the season did start the covid situation wasn't as bad as it was to become. If we are classed as elite then we should get the same treatment as all elite clubs.
Let's see, who do I believe... David Johnson and a coalition of different chairmen in this league, who are adamant they have been deliberately misled or lied to... or a government with a long record of shifting goalposts and outright lying...
They got their information from the league didn't they? The leagues track record over this is hardly exemplary either.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by quaker4life » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:19 pm

H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm
The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.
Touched a nerve have we?

At what point did I blame China for this situation? My comment regarding their government albeit somewhat tongue in cheek was a nod to the fact the virus, which as Norm_D_Ploom has pointed out already, that led us to this position originated in China and I also believe they were aware of it before it was made known to the rest of the world but that is a debate for the off topic room should anyone care to make a thread.

It's just as easy to blame Johnny Foreigner as it is to blame the government isn't it? Neither require you to engage your brain and on a related note do you know for a fact the government are to blame or are you just saying that because its the nasty horrible Tories? Also having listened to DJ's interview at no point did he suggest there was any foul play from them (although he did say he felt they had handled the pandemic poorly) and nor have I seen any similar suggestions from any other chairman? It seems to me your own bias has left you blinkered and you are blindly making these assertions with little or no evidence to support them whilst at the same time refusing to acknowledge any opposing view.

As for looking closer to home, without wishing to sound as if I'm being personal, the fact you focused solely on the opening comment whilst apparently overlooking the rest of the post makes you appear wilfully obtuse might I suggest engaging your brain before engaging your bias and prejudice?
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David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:32 am

loan_star wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:09 pm
loan_star wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 pm
H1987 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm
The Chinese government changed the terms for bailing out NLN and NLS football clubs and the premise for beginning the season did they? :lol:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, the post itself, or those lining up to agree for it. I suppose it's really rather easy blaming Jonny Foreigner than looking a little closer to home. You don't need to engage your brain that way.
Did the league board have it in writing that they were getting grants all season or were they just presuming? They have shown with their distribution of the grants that they really don't have a clue, yet you are defending them here.

With regard to testing, when the season did start the covid situation wasn't as bad as it was to become. If we are classed as elite then we should get the same treatment as all elite clubs.
Let's see, who do I believe... David Johnson and a coalition of different chairmen in this league, who are adamant they have been deliberately misled or lied to... or a government with a long record of shifting goalposts and outright lying...
They got their information from the league didn't they? The leagues track record over this is hardly exemplary either.
Yep, but that’s inconvenient to H1987’s argument and doesn’t reinforce his existing biases.

The DCMS say the money wasn’t a direct grant from the department, but instead from a one-off agreement between the National Lottery (which is state franchised).

“In October we brokered a unique deal with the National Lottery to provide a £10 million cash injection to keep Step One and Two clubs afloat, and recently announced another £11 million in low interest loans to support them in line with support offered to other sports.”

To be fair, that is still public money, but the point being contested is it wasn’t a direct grant and there was never a promise of further grants. And it isn’t a direct Governmental grant as the National League appears to be claiming.

And as I say, the Government’s point of view will be they shouldn’t be handing out free money to loss-making, non-publicly owned, non-league football clubs. That’s not an unreasonable view, as you then have to decide who is and isn’t worthy, or justifiably have to subsidise most industries and businesses, which is unworkable.

However, clearly the idea clubs should take on additional debt without the means to pay it back (I.E fans paying to attend matches), is just ludicrous.

My own view is the National League have screwed up massively.
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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by quakersfan » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:30 am

It’s a difficult situation that’s for sure. I suppose like any other LTD business we can borrow at 2% which are extremely good rates, don’t have to make repayments for 12 months and we have ten years to pay it off, which is similar to CBILS and BBL offered to business in general.

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Re: David Johnson : We are in a sad position

Post by EDJOHNS » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:52 am

quakersfan wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:30 am
It’s a difficult situation that’s for sure. I suppose like any other LTD business we can borrow at 2% which are extremely good rates, don’t have to make repayments for 12 months and we have ten years to pay it off, which is similar to CBILS and BBL offered to business in general.
But the problem is not interest rates or the timespan to repay.
It is quite simply that no-one anywhere in the world can give us a definitive date that fans will be able to return to grounds thus clubs can start to earn the money to repay.
While we all hope that we will be back well within 12 months more, we really would be wrong to risk our entire existence on the hope of returning.

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