League restarts 6 February

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by lo36789 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:07 pm

onewayup wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:54 am
This whole issue is down to the national league management,
1) in not formulating a fair sharing of the 11 million.
2) that they the national league management haven't come up with the criteria that helped them make the decisions they did .
I dont think the current issue is actually anything to do with the above to be honest.
onewayup wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:54 am
3) they are acting like dictators over trying to force loans onto already struggling club's who have no revenues to pay the loans back.
4) that leads to operating a club insolvent, which is illegal no C E O would put there club into debt as that would be suicidal.
The national league have not been accountable to anybody. Which is wrong ,they have to be accountable for their crass decisions, stupidly coming out with statements before consulting with members within their jurisdiction.
The national league management have been totally inept throughout this whole process.
These two points are really the basis of the current issue.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by darlobaz791 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:47 pm

So if the clubs vote to carry on the season (bearing in mind the vote is weighted to NL clubs) what happens to those who feel it’s a dereliction of duty at best and illegal at worst to do so?

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Darlo Dodger » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:54 pm

More from Ollie Baylis:-

https://twitter.com/ollie_bayliss/statu ... 13829?s=21

“National League clubs will be asked to respond to a formal "resolution to consider the outcome of the season".

The League has made the decision following a Board meeting today.

Details of the resolution and the process will be sent to clubs on Monday.”

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:06 pm

en passant wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:00 pm
When I heard the announcement that matches would restart on 6th Feb, without any additional information on funding, I assumed that the League had just jumped the gun on a Government announcement that a new deal on grants had been brokered. Having had no such announcement in the last 24 hours seems to indicate that no additional funds are on the table unless it is in the form of loans. The only crumb of comfort offered has been to offer to look at clubs that are in dire financial circumstances and potentially give a grant in they can pass though they eye of a needle of unknown criteria that you can bet on not being overly generous. As others have noted to take the risk of starting to play again, hoping that this may provide a safety net would seem unduly optimistic. Governments are not known for timely assessments of anything and even if a club were to pass on the criteria they set there is a good to even chance that any club in such a fix will go out of business long before the funds arrive.
However, a couple of random thoughts to go with the above.
Are the government and/or the League hoping that there are enough clubs that may be convinced to continue and that there is enough in the deal offered to persuade sufficient to give it a go, having started the season, and in some cases, feel that they might get a chance of promotion. After all football is a business where ambition often overcomes good sense and prudence.
Do they believe that there are enough clubs that are backed by reasonably well off chairmen who will be willing to dip their hands in their pockets. And do they resent the idea that where clubs are backed in such a way that public funds should be used instead of private ones. (Of course this point of view takes no account of the many clubs that are not funded that way, which may mean they don't care or that these are the clubs they would consider giving grants to).
Last thought, and following on from the above. If they consider that clubs with access to funds generated elsewhere should use these funds first before going cap in hand to the Government, would they consider that additional funds earned via cup games should also be used up before any grant is forthcoming? This would, of course be of direct relevance to our club, and would have the effect of negating any value Darlo had obtained from the two cup runs. Moreover it would make the backlog of fixtures harder to take, knowing that we might as well have forfeited in the first round and played more league games and not getting into the fixture backlog we currently face.
Just some thoughts
Good post :thumbup:

It doesn't matter which way you look at though, the goalposts have ben moved significantly from where they were when we agreed to kick off the campaign, and because of this a lot of club chairman will be wary.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:36 pm

12 NLN clubs and 2 NLS including ourselves have now written to the League. That's a good start. If the 12 NLN clubs at least refuse to carry on after the 5th then will they expel 12 clubs? A good start at least.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Yarblockos » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:04 pm

darlobaz791 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:47 pm
So if the clubs vote to carry on the season (bearing in mind the vote is weighted to NL clubs) what happens to those who feel it’s a dereliction of duty at best and illegal at worst to do so?
I think it would be hard to argue that it would be illegal to take the money from the NL loan. Taking on debt that you can't service would be illegal. Taking money from the NL wouldn't actually put you in the red. You'd have to cut your budget by 15K each year for the next 10 years, which isn't great, but clubs could do that and survive. It just does not seem worth it to carry on but I don't think it would be illegal.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by quaker4life » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:06 pm

Having since been ordered to re-schedule our postponed games in accordance with the National League rules, we must now reiterate our stance.
I can't say I like the tone of that statement it almost appears that the National League are trying to push this through as a fait accompli, it's good to see 14 clubs have stepped forward already but unless there is substantial support from the remaining 52 we may well be boxed into a corner.

These are very worrying times (if they weren't already!) the return of supporters to stadiums is clearly not imminent and should the season continue the probability of crowds being allowed back in before it ends is somewhere between highly unlikely and zero. We could see many clubs potentially being forced to trade insolvent over the next 4/5 months and you don't need to be an accountant to work out accumulating debt whilst all revenue streams are cut off is simply not sustainable, you may remember a certain former chairman facing a similar situation after ploughing millions into a ludicrously oversized stadium almost two decades ago? It can only end one way.

Depending on how the next couple of weeks pan out many chairman & directors are going to be facing some very unenviable decisions.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:52 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:04 pm
darlobaz791 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:47 pm
So if the clubs vote to carry on the season (bearing in mind the vote is weighted to NL clubs) what happens to those who feel it’s a dereliction of duty at best and illegal at worst to do so?
I think it would be hard to argue that it would be illegal to take the money from the NL loan. Taking on debt that you can't service would be illegal. Taking money from the NL wouldn't actually put you in the red. You'd have to cut your budget by 15K each year for the next 10 years, which isn't great, but clubs could do that and survive. It just does not seem worth it to carry on but I don't think it would be illegal.
Listen to D.J's interview on the official site, he explains the situation re the loan here.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:57 pm

darlobaz791 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:47 pm
So if the clubs vote to carry on the season (bearing in mind the vote is weighted to NL clubs) what happens to those who feel it’s a dereliction of duty at best and illegal at worst to do so?
I have a feeling that the National League will continue, with many willing to take on loans to reach the promised land, and the NLN & NLS will be null & void with no relegation from the National League in to the NLN/NLS.

Of course, there will still be promotion up to the Football League, which is all the National League board & probably the top 10 at that level are bothered about.

It is my honest opinion that the National League board won’t make NLN/NLS clubs carry on after the vote, given how strong the result will be in ending the season.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by en passant » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:41 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:06 pm
Having since been ordered to re-schedule our postponed games in accordance with the National League rules, we must now reiterate our stance.
I can't say I like the tone of that statement it almost appears that the National League are trying to push this through as a fait accompli, it's good to see 14 clubs have stepped forward already but unless there is substantial support from the remaining 52 we may well be boxed into a corner.

These are very worrying times (if they weren't already!) the return of supporters to stadiums is clearly not imminent and should the season continue the probability of crowds being allowed back in before it ends is somewhere between highly unlikely and zero. We could see many clubs potentially being forced to trade insolvent over the next 4/5 months and you don't need to be an accountant to work out accumulating debt whilst all revenue streams are cut off is simply not sustainable, you may remember a certain former chairman facing a similar situation after ploughing millions into a ludicrously oversized stadium almost two decades ago? It can only end one way.

Depending on how the next couple of weeks pan out many chairman & directors are going to be facing some very unenviable decisions.
It also fair to say that some of the assumptions on a loan are built on the idea that it is only required to complete this season. But what if the expectations for getting crowds back next season are misplaced? After all we are placing a lot of hope on the idea that we will be able to vaccinate enough people before August and that the hopes for the effectiveness of the vaccine is well founded. These are not certainties by any means. But having bought into the idea of loans this season, the Government would expect the same conditions to apply for as long as it takes for crowds to return. How could any business expect to have that sort of open-ended attitude to accumulating debt without knowing when that debt may stand any chance of being serviced. It would be madness to continue for any club in our situation.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:21 am

There is a new statement on the Darlo official site. A letter now signed by 14 clubs in our league.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by quaker4life » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:03 am

en passant wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:41 pm

It also fair to say that some of the assumptions on a loan are built on the idea that it is only required to complete this season. But what if the expectations for getting crowds back next season are misplaced? After all we are placing a lot of hope on the idea that we will be able to vaccinate enough people before August and that the hopes for the effectiveness of the vaccine is well founded. These are not certainties by any means. But having bought into the idea of loans this season, the Government would expect the same conditions to apply for as long as it takes for crowds to return. How could any business expect to have that sort of open-ended attitude to accumulating debt without knowing when that debt may stand any chance of being serviced. It would be madness to continue for any club in our situation.
It's a case of wait and see and obviously there are no guarantees but right now I don't think there's much sense in looking that far ahead we have to resolve this season first, hopefully by August we'll be in a far better position.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Footifanreturns » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:33 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:21 am
There is a new statement on the Darlo official site. A letter now signed by 14 clubs in our league.
Noticed Blyth Spartans no longer on the list.
Do you think they are hoping for a "Free Loan"
By claiming they could not pay for a loan ?
Or it could just be an omission !

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by spen666 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:15 am

Footifanreturns wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:33 am
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:21 am
There is a new statement on the Darlo official site. A letter now signed by 14 clubs in our league.
Noticed Blyth Spartans no longer on the list.
Do you think they are hoping for a "Free Loan"
By claiming they could not pay for a loan ?
Or it could just be an omission !
There are other changes as well - now I think 3 NLS sides signed up Concord, Dulwich and Slough from memory.

I suspect it may be timing issues as to why some sides are not on this letter - ie their CEO or equivalent perhaps isn't full time and or the club therefore couldn't respond in time.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:25 am

It's funny the number of "notice all these clubs are in the bottom half" despite being more than 50% of the teams in the division.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Quaker85 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:23 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:57 pm
darlobaz791 wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:47 pm
So if the clubs vote to carry on the season (bearing in mind the vote is weighted to NL clubs) what happens to those who feel it’s a dereliction of duty at best and illegal at worst to do so?
I have a feeling that the National League will continue, with many willing to take on loans to reach the promised land, and the NLN & NLS will be null & void with no relegation from the National League in to the NLN/NLS.

Of course, there will still be promotion up to the Football League, which is all the National League board & probably the top 10 at that level are bothered about.

It is my honest opinion that the National League board won’t make NLN/NLS clubs carry on after the vote, given how strong the result will be in ending the season.
The National League will also be worried about their sponsors if they couldn't fulfil their tv deal with BT Sport. No such concerns with the NL N&S divisions.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by onewayup » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:32 am

Maybe it's to simple for the national leagues management. Loans without a revenue stream will just add debts on debts, they are unserviseable, only option open is administration, it really is that simple.
As for acting like dictators telling clubs to take the loans that are unserviseable is just criminal, death knell for a lot of club's. Just where are the league management Brains, they seem to have taken league of their senses.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Old Git » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:53 am

According to our website on the Around The World Of Football Jason McGill of York City is adamant that the season must continue and he is unlikely to be alone in this view. There is a real danger that this issue could fracture the NL and cause massive problems for the future.
Sounds crazy but if there is a split maybe some clubs could be allowed to be mothballed and those that want to carry on do so. All of the results could be expunged and a new mini league set up for those who want to play on. If say 10 teams wanted to do that a new set of fixtures could be drawn up which would mean 18 games to play. Top team is promoted and the next 2 play off for the second promotion place. Not saying it is a perfect solution but it could be a way forward to give every team an option to suit them.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by poppyfield » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:00 am

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:25 am
It's funny the number of "notice all these clubs are in the bottom half" despite being more than 50% of the teams in the division.
Some, not all, will have a chairman with money, some will see the chance of promotion, on the flip side of is Spennymoor who have a benefactor in Brad, a chance of promotion but are doing the right thing IMO, so fair play to them.
Chester are a good example, they are going really well, but if they took a loan and didn't get promoted it could set them back years, and been a fan owned club that would a disaster.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by 50 years » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:02 am

Although DJ has said that financially we are secure till the end of the season, that would take up all of any reserves we have, and then have to get through the close season assuming that fans will be back for next season. This would put real pressures on the club. If the season does finish it may also have an impact on finances as assume BTB would stop and substantial part of season tickets would have to be repaid, plus sponsorship finances need to be looked at, and impact for future seasons. Not easy decisions.
Saying that we know the club has substantial debt to the DFCSG regarding the loans from fans for the building of the stands etc and may be that the club could use that as a lever to be one of the clubs that gets grant's rather than loans?

As for PCR testing at community hubs, I always thought that was quite within the clubs right to use this as it is to help stop transmission for anyone?

I for one will miss the football if it stops, but will understand and we will quite rightly have to live with the decision of the board, who have done a brilliant job to date so I trust them to make the right decision on the season.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by spen666 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:42 am

50 years wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:02 am
....
Saying that we know the club has substantial debt to the DFCSG regarding the loans from fans for the building of the stands etc and may be that the club could use that as a lever to be one of the clubs that gets grant's rather than loans?
No more than any other club, whose owner has his or her "investment" recorded as a loan to club in the accounts.

That would mean nearly every club has same lever.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by onewayup » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:28 pm

Good solution would be to end this season now as it is, continue this season as its standing in August through to end in 2021 , forget about season 21/22 ,take stock then restart new season 2022/23 . That means a win ,win for every club no points lost everything to play for, that would allow for the rearranged games to be played on Saturday's with fans in place. No loans needed or grants.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:40 pm

It really is a stitch up. It seems like us and other sensible clubs just can't trust anyone. Especially the government who have a very flippant attitude towards debt.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Old Git » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:51 pm

onewayup wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:28 pm
Good solution would be to end this season now as it is, continue this season as its standing in August through to end in 2021 , forget about season 21/22 ,take stock then restart new season 2022/23 . That means a win ,win for every club no points lost everything to play for, that would allow for the rearranged games to be played on Saturday's with fans in place. No loans needed or grants.
Not for me thanks. Your suggestion means a 7 month gap from December 21 to August 22 with no football just at the time the pandemic could hopefully be over. No sense in that.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by spen666 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:55 pm

onewayup wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:28 pm
Good solution would be to end this season now as it is, continue this season as its standing in August through to end in 2021 , forget about season 21/22 ,take stock then restart new season 2022/23 . That means a win ,win for every club no points lost everything to play for, that would allow for the rearranged games to be played on Saturday's with fans in place. No loans needed or grants.
what about the players contract which run to this summer? Potentially you have virtually different sides starting again in August. So, whilst you keep points, you have a different team.

be far better to simply write this season off and start a new season in August

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by quaker4life » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:43 pm

Old Git wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:51 pm
onewayup wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:28 pm
Good solution would be to end this season now as it is, continue this season as its standing in August through to end in 2021 , forget about season 21/22 ,take stock then restart new season 2022/23 . That means a win ,win for every club no points lost everything to play for, that would allow for the rearranged games to be played on Saturday's with fans in place. No loans needed or grants.
Not for me thanks. Your suggestion means a 7 month gap from December 21 to August 22 with no football just at the time the pandemic could hopefully be over. No sense in that.
This ^

I've seen similar suggestions including resuming the season in August with no midweek games and a winter break in March, to me it makes no sense to sacrifice an entire season in favour of an incomplete one.

Financially fewer games means reduced income so from a business perspective it makes no sense either, this season must either be rendered null and void or completed by the end of May.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Quakerlad » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:14 pm

Just read the Boston chairman’s statement as the clubs obviously now have the full details of loan terms, grants etc.
https://www.bostonunited.co.uk/news/clu ... 96940.html
There are clearly many points of view to the argument and do see that if you are a Boston, York or whoever supporter then his statement could be seen as fair. A break now would certainly support the Covid issues although would mean extending the season.

My personal view has not changed in that we should end the season now and hopefully resume fully in August.

Do see how this is going to be a really difficult situation to deal with for clubs and the league alike and honestly have no idea what the likely outcome will be. Just so pleased we have DJ looking after our interests.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by spen666 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:38 pm

Quakerlad wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:14 pm
Just read the Boston chairman’s statement as the clubs obviously now have the full details of loan terms, grants etc.
https://www.bostonunited.co.uk/news/clu ... 96940.html
There are clearly many points of view to the argument and do see that if you are a Boston, York or whoever supporter then his statement could be seen as fair. A break now would certainly support the Covid issues although would mean extending the season.

My personal view has not changed in that we should end the season now and hopefully resume fully in August.

Do see how this is going to be a really difficult situation to deal with for clubs and the league alike and honestly have no idea what the likely outcome will be. Just so pleased we have DJ looking after our interests.
Its a very selfish attitude the Boston Chairman and York chairman take - effectively we are prepared to bankroll our clubs, so sod everyone else

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:37 pm

This bit annoys me....

"We feel strongly that, with the above generous support available, the National League should be instructing the clubs to play, as there are no financial reasons why they should not do so.

Didn't D.J say we could be left with a 200K debt. It's all money, it all has to be paid back.
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:06 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:This bit annoys me....

"We feel strongly that, with the above generous support available, the National League should be instructing the clubs to play, as there are no financial reasons why they should not do so.

Didn't D.J say we could be left with a 200K debt. It's all money, it all has to be paid back.
Sounds a right idiot that chairman, like McGill at York the lure of possible promotion is totally influencing pathetic and selfish comments from the pair of them.

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