League restarts 6 February

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jjljks
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by jjljks » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:18 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:50 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 pm
If the meeting was by Zoom or similar won't it have been recorded?
Only if it was recorded. It wouldn't be automatically recorded.
Reckon it would be like the Handforth Parish Council meeting that went viral on YouTube😬

lo36789
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by lo36789 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:26 pm

Would not surprise me...

jjljks
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by jjljks » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:57 am

Think it was more likely that Wrexham knew that a takeover bid by expat millionaires was imminent. The club have been promised an immediate £2M funding, although perhaps a word of warning from Quakers fans as the investors have been named as McElhenney & Reynolds. Lucky for Wrexham fans it is Ryan Reynolds, not George.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:08 am

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:40 pm
They are not "quids in". No clubs are "quids in" right now trust me.

We have made about 10x more from our FA Cup run than the money National League clubs get from BT over a season.

Us and Chorley are potentially the most "quids in" of any clubs across the divisions when it comes to excess revenue this season. That still does allow us to operate with no income for another 4-5months.
But we won't have no income for the next 4-5 months. Even with no grants or loans. We have around 15 home league games to play and are averaging over 1,000 a match online (yes I know a significant proportion are ST holders who won't be paying but that's no different to ordinary matches) 50/50 gets us a grand a match. Then sponsorship, merchandise etc.

We're in a luckier position than most - not even including the cup run money - we have a large ST holder based compared to total crowds, that's money in the bank for the season. We have BTB every month. We get good online streaming "gates". We've had 90k in grants - I'm pretty sure we'd have been "up" on normal income during that period with online streaming and 50/50 added to the grants during that period.
#Arenaherewecome

lo36789
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by lo36789 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:17 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:08 am
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:40 pm
They are not "quids in". No clubs are "quids in" right now trust me.

We have made about 10x more from our FA Cup run than the money National League clubs get from BT over a season.

Us and Chorley are potentially the most "quids in" of any clubs across the divisions when it comes to excess revenue this season. That still does allow us to operate with no income for another 4-5months.
But we won't have no income for the next 4-5 months. Even with no grants or loans. We have around 15 home league games to play and are averaging over 1,000 a match online (yes I know a significant proportion are ST holders who won't be paying but that's no different to ordinary matches) 50/50 gets us a grand a match. Then sponsorship, merchandise etc.

We're in a luckier position than most - not even including the cup run money - we have a large ST holder based compared to total crowds, that's money in the bank for the season. We have BTB every month. We get good online streaming "gates". We've had 90k in grants - I'm pretty sure we'd have been "up" on normal income during that period with online streaming and 50/50 added to the grants during that period.
Haha I am not sure if you are countering my point or adding to it.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:32 pm

50/50 is always there Ghost.

I think we will be missing out on a lot of income. Match attendances will be higher than streaming figures for a start, then the car park and sponsorship. We have made the most of a bad job so far but we can’t keep on doing this. To me the streaming and grants possibly made up for lost fans, take the grants away, then the sums don’t add up. I think the grant money ran out 7 weeks ago.

Anyway why would we vote to finish the season if we were doing okay financially?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

lo36789
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by lo36789 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:12 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:32 pm
50/50 is always there Ghost.

I think we will be missing out on a lot of income. Match attendances will be higher than streaming figures for a start, then the car park and sponsorship. We have made the most of a bad job so far but we can’t keep on doing this. To me the streaming and grants possibly made up for lost fans, take the grants away, then the sums don’t add up. I think the grant money ran out 7 weeks ago.

Anyway why would we vote to finish the season if we were doing okay financially?
I can't remember the exact figure but I am sure the figure David Johnstone said we needed to cover 8months of no gate revenues wasn't too far off the per month value of the grants.

To that end the grant money must have been greater than our lost gate revenue (as his lost revenue would have covered more than just gate receipts).

Was it £300kish or something and over 8months our grants would have been £272k. We have obviously had some stuff ticking us over.

Obviously since that point we would be in deficit however FA Comp prize money has been what 3 months worth of grants. That won't have been built into initial projections.

Arguably the grants + FA competitions should have been able to keep us going along for 5-6months.

That doesn't answer the question on surviving the final 2 months though and they would be liabilities we can't escape from. That is why we want to end the season as we have no way to pay our liabilities that are up coming and it is just a waste to continue to that point if you can't continue beyond it.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:00 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:32 pm
50/50 is always there Ghost.

I think we will be missing out on a lot of income. Match attendances will be higher than streaming figures for a start, then the car park and sponsorship. We have made the most of a bad job so far but we can’t keep on doing this. To me the streaming and grants possibly made up for lost fans, take the grants away, then the sums don’t add up. I think the grant money ran out 7 weeks ago.

Anyway why would we vote to finish the season if we were doing okay financially?
Because with no gates, and streaming only covering a proportion of that income, we'd be eating into any cash reserves that we have - and frankly why should we do that. We were sold a lemon.
#Arenaherewecome

en passant
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by en passant » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:31 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:00 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:32 pm
50/50 is always there Ghost.

I think we will be missing out on a lot of income. Match attendances will be higher than streaming figures for a start, then the car park and sponsorship. We have made the most of a bad job so far but we can’t keep on doing this. To me the streaming and grants possibly made up for lost fans, take the grants away, then the sums don’t add up. I think the grant money ran out 7 weeks ago.

Anyway why would we vote to finish the season if we were doing okay financially?
Because with no gates, and streaming only covering a proportion of that income, we'd be eating into any cash reserves that we have - and frankly why should we do that. We were sold a lemon.
This is an important point. In a normal year the money made from our cup exploits would have been a bonus that would have offered the choice of employing additional bodies for a promotion push, or to cover for losing players to injury in a fixture pile up. It may also have provided for a slush fund to cover for emergencies in a future campaign. For a club just about getting by on the income generated by normal streams this bonus money allows a bit of flexibility to the manager. I dare say accepting a loan or a means tested grant would mean that all of the bonus would have to be spent on just getting by before any further funds would be forthcoming. It would probably mean no flexibility in what the manager can do if he has an injury crisis as signing extra bodies would either add to the money to be repaid on the loan or have to go before some tin-pot adjudication panel requiring absolute proof that we cannot manage without a grant extension. Trying to get through the present fixture pile up knowing that you are walking a financial tightrope that may risk the future of the club and the health and welfare of the players should not be a position any governing body should ask its members to deal with.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:19 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:00 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:32 pm
50/50 is always there Ghost.

I think we will be missing out on a lot of income. Match attendances will be higher than streaming figures for a start, then the car park and sponsorship. We have made the most of a bad job so far but we can’t keep on doing this. To me the streaming and grants possibly made up for lost fans, take the grants away, then the sums don’t add up. I think the grant money ran out 7 weeks ago.

Anyway why would we vote to finish the season if we were doing okay financially?
Because with no gates, and streaming only covering a proportion of that income, we'd be eating into any cash reserves that we have - and frankly why should we do that. We were sold a lemon.
Yes I know, we WERE sold a lemon, you're on the same wavelength as me here but your first post reads to me like you're arguing for the contrary. That's why lo put " Haha I am not sure if you are countering my point or adding to it." underneath it.

Confusion.

I've always thought that our B.T.B cash and money from our cup exploits should definitely not be frittered away for the benefit of bailing the league out of a hole that they and the government have dug.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

lo36789
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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by lo36789 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:43 pm

I agree with all of the above btw.

What I wasn't supporting was a perspective that NL Prem sides are quids in.

We are quite fortunate really that we aren't on a lifeline yet. Can't imagine was others must be like.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:04 am

Yep - we absolutely shouldn’t be using our cash reserves to get through until the end of Feb/March/April etc. That income was ‘over & above’ and besides, that income is now earmarked for future projects (wink, wink).

The National League board led clubs down the garden path, which is why there is currently over 40% of Step 2 voting for null & void.

It’s totally unacceptable and reprehensible to expect clubs to take on hundreds of thousands of pounds debt, with no guarantee of any funding after the end of March. That is even before you get in to the legalities of whether these loans go against National League regulations and the Insolvency Act.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by My opinion » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:42 am

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:43 pm
I agree with all of the above btw.

What I wasn't supporting was a perspective that NL Prem sides are quids in.

We are quite fortunate really that we aren't on a lifeline yet. Can't imagine was others must be like.


It was me that said that NL clubs are "quids in".. and it was in comparison to the funding to NLN and NLS'
As I stated, they got nearly 3 times more money from the grant than North and South. They also get BT money.
Now if that's not being QUIDS IN in comparison, then I don't know what is.

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by spen666 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:54 am

My opinion wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:42 am
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:43 pm
I agree with all of the above btw.

What I wasn't supporting was a perspective that NL Prem sides are quids in.

We are quite fortunate really that we aren't on a lifeline yet. Can't imagine was others must be like.


It was me that said that NL clubs are "quids in".. and it was in comparison to the funding to NLN and NLS'
As I stated, they got nearly 3 times more money from the grant than North and South. They also get BT money.
Now if that's not being QUIDS IN in comparison, then I don't know what is.

It depends on your definition of quids in - they clearly got more income, but they obviously have much larger expenses with most being full time, and having to travel nationally as opposed to just the North ( Blyth to that Northern town of Gloucester!)

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Re: League restarts 6 February

Post by My opinion » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:38 am

There are quite a few teams in North and South who are full time, they still got a hell of a lot less than NL teams.
Darlington FC have travelled to Bristol. Swindon and Weymouth this season (I know they were cup games) We also have several 4+ hour bus journey's. Some National league teams have shorter journeys.
The point is, The money National teams received from the grant (and BT is significantly MORE than North and South teams.
Therefore in my opinion they were quids in in comparison.

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