York City

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H1987
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York City

Post by H1987 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:45 pm

https://twitter.com/yorkcityfc/status/1 ... 79840?s=21

Say what you will about our near neighbours, that’s a nice looking stadium. Needs safe standing though.

I only hope our future home, wherever it may be, can have one stand with some suites like theirs has. Will be a tremendous asset to them.

That said, it does lack character. Not just compared to Bootham Crescent. Bad location also.

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Quaker85
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Re: York City

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:26 pm

They’ve had to jump through hoops and endured endless delays to get this stadium done. They’ve had the full backing of the local council, a partnership with the rugby league club and an owner sitting on millions in land assets.

What have we got?


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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: York City

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:04 pm

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:26 pm
They’ve had to jump through hoops and endured endless delays to get this stadium done. They’ve had the full backing of the local council, a partnership with the rugby league club and an owner sitting on millions in land assets.

What have we got?


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Better fans, better ownership model, better Chairman, for starters.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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JE93
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Re: York City

Post by JE93 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:17 pm

Can’t imagine DBC getting involved with a £40million sports, leisure and retail complex. The report they commissioned into their own version of this at the arena was deemed unviable so if you’re holding your breath for them to get involved with us, you’ll be waiting a long time.

Not entirely sure how their new set up works. They’ve gone from owning bootham crescent to whatever the situation is at the new ground. Whether they are primary lease holders over the stadium section of the development and York Knights are sub tenants and how this subsequently effects how they can use the facilities there to generate future revenues. Got to say while it’s a nice ground, it’s rather unremarkable/featureless. Bit of a feature of modern grounds. Can’t think of many recent UK builds that are actually that interesting other than maybe Brentford’s new home which has its own unique little quirks with the shaping of the ground. Also a shame that there is no safe standing, which is a real plus of lower league grounds for me.

As for us, if we’re to build our own ground elsewhere in the town we’ll have to set our sights much lower. I would be more than happy if we could ever end up with something similar to Keys Park, Hednesford (https://footballgroundguide.com/clubs/h ... -keys-park) which we could call our own.

tdk1
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Re: York City

Post by tdk1 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:10 pm

I was always a little envious of fc United's ground when we went there (well, the bits that were finished). A lot of character for a new stadium. I liked the wooden cladding on it too.

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Re: York City

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:48 pm

H1987 wrote:https://twitter.com/yorkcityfc/status/1 ... 79840?s=21

Say what you will about our near neighbours, that’s a nice looking stadium. Needs safe standing though.

I only hope our future home, wherever it may be, can have one stand with some suites like theirs has. Will be a tremendous asset to them.

That said, it does lack character. Not just compared to Bootham Crescent. Bad location also.
You’re right on the no character aspect. Feels like a generic stadium from a FIFA game.

Bootham Crescent was a dump that was falling apart, but it felt like an old school football ground.
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Re: York City

Post by bga » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:57 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:48 pm
H1987 wrote:https://twitter.com/yorkcityfc/status/1 ... 79840?s=21

Say what you will about our near neighbours, that’s a nice looking stadium. Needs safe standing though.

I only hope our future home, wherever it may be, can have one stand with some suites like theirs has. Will be a tremendous asset to them.

That said, it does lack character. Not just compared to Bootham Crescent. Bad location also.
You’re right on the no character aspect. Feels like a generic stadium from a FIFA game.

Bootham Crescent was a dump that was falling apart, but it felt like an old school football ground.
Wasn't Bootham falling apart and a dump because it was an old school football ground?
Regards to their new ground having no character I guess that's up to the York City fans to decide not us. What should they have done built an exact replica of Bootham Crescent but with brand new building materials?

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Re: York City

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:15 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:10 pm
I was always a little envious of fc United's ground when we went there (well, the bits that were finished). A lot of character for a new stadium. I liked the wooden cladding on it too.
It probably partly helped that it wasn't entirely new. They chose well to out a lot of focus on their big terrace behind the goal also.

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York City

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:22 pm

bga wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:48 pm
H1987 wrote:https://twitter.com/yorkcityfc/status/1 ... 79840?s=21

Say what you will about our near neighbours, that’s a nice looking stadium. Needs safe standing though.

I only hope our future home, wherever it may be, can have one stand with some suites like theirs has. Will be a tremendous asset to them.

That said, it does lack character. Not just compared to Bootham Crescent. Bad location also.
You’re right on the no character aspect. Feels like a generic stadium from a FIFA game.

Bootham Crescent was a dump that was falling apart, but it felt like an old school football ground.
Wasn't Bootham falling apart and a dump because it was an old school football ground?
Regards to their new ground having no character I guess that's up to the York City fans to decide not us. What should they have done built an exact replica of Bootham Crescent but with brand new building materials?
No, falling apart doesn’t equal old school ground. There are quite a few old-school grounds (Edgeley Park, or dare I say it, Victoria Park, that aren’t falling apart). Bootham Crescent was falling apart but despite that, it still felt traditional. This new ground just looks boring and soulless.

And no, it’s not just for York fans to decide. Anyone can have an opinion, as anyone will be able to attend. Plenty of non-Darlington fans think Blackwell Meadows is a terrible ground. They’re more than welcome to think that.

If other people think York’s new gaff is smart, full of character and wonderful, they’re perfectly entitled to do so. But I don’t.
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Re: York City

Post by bga » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:34 pm

Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: York City

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:39 pm

I think York are doing what we did in 2003. Moving to a hard to get to, out of town, characterless stadium. They've sold their historical home to rent a new one and I'm not a big fan of renting - it's never yours and you're not in control.
In a footballing way it might help them, Hull certainly moved quickly after they got out of their old ground.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Darlogramps
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Re: York City

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:00 pm

bga wrote:Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?
Of course going to the ground is better than photos. Just a shame this small matter of a pandemic means it’ll be next season at the earliest that can happen.

In the meantime, all anyone can base any sort of judgement is the photos. And from the photos, my initial judgement is that ground looks generic and soulless. When I visit, I’m more than open to being pleasantly surprised.

On the second point, I don’t think it’s to do with money. There are plenty of expensive modern stadiums that lack any sort character (I can’t abide the identikit white oblongs that you get at Hull, Swansea, Derby, Middlesbrough and so on). Plus character is subjective anyway. What one person really likes, another may dislike.
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Quaker85
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Re: York City

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:53 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
bga wrote:Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?
Of course going to the ground is better than photos. Just a shame this small matter of a pandemic means it’ll be next season at the earliest that can happen.

In the meantime, all anyone can base any sort of judgement is the photos. And from the photos, my initial judgement is that ground looks generic and soulless. When I visit, I’m more than open to being pleasantly surprised.

On the second point, I don’t think it’s to do with money. There are plenty of expensive modern stadiums that lack any sort character (I can’t abide the identikit white oblongs that you get at Hull, Swansea, Derby, Middlesbrough and so on). Plus character is subjective anyway. What one person really likes, another may dislike.
The Boro’s Riverside Stadium cost £16.5M when it was built in 1995 which for a 30k all seater stadium wasn’t considered expensive at the time. It was the largest sporting venue constructed in the country since the Second World War.


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H1987
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Re: York City

Post by H1987 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:31 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:53 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
bga wrote:Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?
Of course going to the ground is better than photos. Just a shame this small matter of a pandemic means it’ll be next season at the earliest that can happen.

In the meantime, all anyone can base any sort of judgement is the photos. And from the photos, my initial judgement is that ground looks generic and soulless. When I visit, I’m more than open to being pleasantly surprised.

On the second point, I don’t think it’s to do with money. There are plenty of expensive modern stadiums that lack any sort character (I can’t abide the identikit white oblongs that you get at Hull, Swansea, Derby, Middlesbrough and so on). Plus character is subjective anyway. What one person really likes, another may dislike.
The Boro’s Riverside Stadium cost £16.5M when it was built in 1995 which for a 30k all seater stadium wasn’t considered expensive at the time. It was the largest sporting venue constructed in the country since the Second World War.


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I agree that Boro deserve a break for that. It was the first one built. They hardly knew about a quarter of the football league was going to copy them. Even the Stadium of Light was very similar before they stuck the extra tier on. Southampton is similar too.

I don’t know if all modern stadia are necessarily this way though. Tottenham and Brentford are both really quite unique. Safe standing will make a difference too.

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Re: York City

Post by JE93 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:33 am

Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:53 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
bga wrote:Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?
Of course going to the ground is better than photos. Just a shame this small matter of a pandemic means it’ll be next season at the earliest that can happen.

In the meantime, all anyone can base any sort of judgement is the photos. And from the photos, my initial judgement is that ground looks generic and soulless. When I visit, I’m more than open to being pleasantly surprised.

On the second point, I don’t think it’s to do with money. There are plenty of expensive modern stadiums that lack any sort character (I can’t abide the identikit white oblongs that you get at Hull, Swansea, Derby, Middlesbrough and so on). Plus character is subjective anyway. What one person really likes, another may dislike.
The Boro’s Riverside Stadium cost £16.5M when it was built in 1995 which for a 30k all seater stadium wasn’t considered expensive at the time. It was the largest sporting venue constructed in the country since the Second World War.


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There is nothing wrong with the grounds Gramps lists out and as you say there is value for money in building your ground like that. But I completely agree with Gramps there is nothing special about any of those grounds in my eyes.

Completely new grounds like Brentford's new home, have some interesting architectural features caused by where it is built, on a tight site pinned between a motorway and a railway line. Then you have the older grounds which have been updated places like Charlton's The Valley and Nottingham Forest's City Ground, big grounds perched at the bottom of a row of terraced houses with nods to the old school in the Jimmy Seed Stand at Charlton and the Main Stand at Forest. Then you have the old ramshackle style grounds Luton's Kenilworth Road, maybe less so but QPR's Loftus Road is another one, where you'd never be allowed to build it like that again.

Not saying clubs have done anything wrong in moving to the modern style bowl stadiums or the standard 4 rectangular boxy stands. But in the same breath I think football loses a little something every time a club leaves one of them for an identi-kit ground and that building in something interesting architecturally can atleast tempt neutrals and ground hoppers to go and take a look.

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Re: York City

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:55 am

In reality Boro's Riverside Stadium cost a lot more than £16.5m as on top of that figure millions of pounds worth of public money also went towards it. Teesside Development Corporation (financed by the taxpayer) gave the club the land to build the stadium on and then secured lots of Government cash to pay for the roads, drainage, decontamination and utilities. We could have done with a Darlington Development Corporation. The defunct Teesside Development Corporation ended up leaving debts estimated at £40m which had to be picked up by the taxpayer.
Last edited by LoidLucan on Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: York City

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:10 am

Whilst I love(d) those old school grounds we've definitely seen improvements in facilities! I have no fond memories of the toilets at the back of the Anfield Kop, behind the Kippax or Shrewsbury's away end. Tranmere rebuilt three sides of the ground and kept a wonderful main stand and stayed right in the community. I'll be interested to see what the new Goodison looks like-it will be surrounded by history with the river on one side.

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Re: York City

Post by lo36789 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:32 am

don'tbuythesun wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:10 am
I'll be interested to see what the new Goodison looks like-it will be surrounded by history with the river on one side.
Haha and hope you are still above the ground by the time it arrives?

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Re: York City

Post by bga » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:49 pm

don'tbuythesun wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:10 am
Whilst I love(d) those old school grounds we've definitely seen improvements in facilities! I have no fond memories of the toilets at the back of the Anfield Kop, behind the Kippax or Shrewsbury's away end. Tranmere rebuilt three sides of the ground and kept a wonderful main stand and stayed right in the community. I'll be interested to see what the new Goodison looks like-it will be surrounded by history with the river on one side.
I've thought the toilets were actually on the Kop i.e. keep your pockets closed to make sure no one pissed in them?

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Re: York City

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:05 pm

JE93 wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:53 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
bga wrote:Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?
Of course going to the ground is better than photos. Just a shame this small matter of a pandemic means it’ll be next season at the earliest that can happen.

In the meantime, all anyone can base any sort of judgement is the photos. And from the photos, my initial judgement is that ground looks generic and soulless. When I visit, I’m more than open to being pleasantly surprised.

On the second point, I don’t think it’s to do with money. There are plenty of expensive modern stadiums that lack any sort character (I can’t abide the identikit white oblongs that you get at Hull, Swansea, Derby, Middlesbrough and so on). Plus character is subjective anyway. What one person really likes, another may dislike.
The Boro’s Riverside Stadium cost £16.5M when it was built in 1995 which for a 30k all seater stadium wasn’t considered expensive at the time. It was the largest sporting venue constructed in the country since the Second World War.


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There is nothing wrong with the grounds Gramps lists out and as you say there is value for money in building your ground like that. But I completely agree with Gramps there is nothing special about any of those grounds in my eyes.

Completely new grounds like Brentford's new home, have some interesting architectural features caused by where it is built, on a tight site pinned between a motorway and a railway line. Then you have the older grounds which have been updated places like Charlton's The Valley and Nottingham Forest's City Ground, big grounds perched at the bottom of a row of terraced houses with nods to the old school in the Jimmy Seed Stand at Charlton and the Main Stand at Forest. Then you have the old ramshackle style grounds Luton's Kenilworth Road, maybe less so but QPR's Loftus Road is another one, where you'd never be allowed to build it like that again.

Not saying clubs have done anything wrong in moving to the modern style bowl stadiums or the standard 4 rectangular boxy stands. But in the same breath I think football loses a little something every time a club leaves one of them for an identi-kit ground and that building in something interesting architecturally can atleast tempt neutrals and ground hoppers to go and take a look.
Yeah completely agree with all this.

I’m not having a go at Hull or Derby or Swansea or whoever. There’s nothing “wrong” with those grounds but in some ways that’s kind of the point.

I’m slowly making my way through the 92 and the ones I’ve enjoyed have had their quirks or been a bit different.

Having said that, as H1987 points out, modern new grounds like Tottenham or Brentford are either fantastic (Spurs’ ground is seriously impressive) or unique.

That’s why York’s new ground doesn’t exactly fill me with intrigue or excitement. It just looks rather generic.
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Re: York City

Post by H1987 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:45 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:05 pm
JE93 wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:53 pm
Darlogramps wrote:
bga wrote:Fair points Gramps but some seem to base their opinions solely on photographs which are no doubt realistic. However, surely you need to actually physically visit the ground and experiance a match to make a proper judgement? PS Can you build a new ground within budget that has character?
Of course going to the ground is better than photos. Just a shame this small matter of a pandemic means it’ll be next season at the earliest that can happen.

In the meantime, all anyone can base any sort of judgement is the photos. And from the photos, my initial judgement is that ground looks generic and soulless. When I visit, I’m more than open to being pleasantly surprised.

On the second point, I don’t think it’s to do with money. There are plenty of expensive modern stadiums that lack any sort character (I can’t abide the identikit white oblongs that you get at Hull, Swansea, Derby, Middlesbrough and so on). Plus character is subjective anyway. What one person really likes, another may dislike.
The Boro’s Riverside Stadium cost £16.5M when it was built in 1995 which for a 30k all seater stadium wasn’t considered expensive at the time. It was the largest sporting venue constructed in the country since the Second World War.


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There is nothing wrong with the grounds Gramps lists out and as you say there is value for money in building your ground like that. But I completely agree with Gramps there is nothing special about any of those grounds in my eyes.

Completely new grounds like Brentford's new home, have some interesting architectural features caused by where it is built, on a tight site pinned between a motorway and a railway line. Then you have the older grounds which have been updated places like Charlton's The Valley and Nottingham Forest's City Ground, big grounds perched at the bottom of a row of terraced houses with nods to the old school in the Jimmy Seed Stand at Charlton and the Main Stand at Forest. Then you have the old ramshackle style grounds Luton's Kenilworth Road, maybe less so but QPR's Loftus Road is another one, where you'd never be allowed to build it like that again.

Not saying clubs have done anything wrong in moving to the modern style bowl stadiums or the standard 4 rectangular boxy stands. But in the same breath I think football loses a little something every time a club leaves one of them for an identi-kit ground and that building in something interesting architecturally can atleast tempt neutrals and ground hoppers to go and take a look.
Yeah completely agree with all this.

I’m not having a go at Hull or Derby or Swansea or whoever. There’s nothing “wrong” with those grounds but in some ways that’s kind of the point.

I’m slowly making my way through the 92 and the ones I’ve enjoyed have had their quirks or been a bit different.

Having said that, as H1987 points out, modern new grounds like Tottenham or Brentford are either fantastic (Spurs’ ground is seriously impressive) or unique.

That’s why York’s new ground doesn’t exactly fill me with intrigue or excitement. It just looks rather generic.
Quite. There's going to be one day in the not too distant future where that old generation of grounds are gone, or totally changed. Lets face it, Old Trafford and St James for example have been altered beyond all recognition of what they once were.

Of course, the old style we all have a certain fondness for, for nostalgic reasons, also had numerous stands that looked like one another (being the architecture of Archibald Leach in particular, with some very similar copies also). Ayresome Park, Roker Park, The Baseball Ground, Upton Park and many more famous old grounds are condemned to the mists of time. I suspect they all became so unique in their own ways as they were altered over time and customised by each club.

I do think, as far as modern grounds go, getting stands as close to the pitch as possible, and preferably making them steep, really helps.

Old Git
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Re: York City

Post by Old Git » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:03 pm

Not going too well tonight. 1 down at half time to Fylde in their first game at the new stadium.

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Re: York City

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:10 pm

They lose 1-3 to Fylde, perhaps they may have second thoughts about wanting the season to continue. Well done Fylde.

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Re: York City

Post by Old Git » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:13 pm

Curse of the new stadium strikes again. Reminds me of the Arena.

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Quaker85
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Re: York City

Post by Quaker85 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:17 pm

Middlesbrough 2 Chelsea 0


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eek
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Re: York City

Post by eek » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:10 am

Interestingly Maidenhead United celebrated 150 years since their first match at York Road yesterday (FIFA regards it as the oldest existing ground in the world).

They did slightly better drawing nil-nil.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: York City

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:55 am

I've been browsing online comments from York fans re last nights loss. They really are a bunch of flat capped spoilt kids, who just moan and moan and having zero understanding or staying power.

The main gripe is that Mcgill's son "an unproven striker" started upfront - then obviously there's a strong "Watson out" voice.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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en passant
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Re: York City

Post by en passant » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:38 am

Do I also detect a modification in their bullish attitude towards completing the season now that the conviction that they are destined for promotion has been tarnished by such a poor performance?

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Re: York City

Post by H1987 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:36 pm

I’ve always found York fans pleasant, but there’s been some right clowns on the internet over the past few weeks. I don’t know if it’s just a vocal minority, or if the last year just makes people more irritable and opinionated. (The truth might be somewhere in the middle).

It has to be weird opening a new stadium with all of this going on. Brentford did also I think.

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Re: York City

Post by Yorkfan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:45 pm

Hi, York fan here, quite often read your forum as it's a lot better and more balanced than York's so hope people don't mind me posting in this thread. Just wanted to say we aren't all bigoted, self important at York although I appreciate the club and some fans haven't covered themselves in glory recently. I for one think the whole season should be nulled (and not just after last night). The very existence of clubs is in doubt so God knows why clubs including mine want to play on. Just regarding grounds, I'm all for the move to the new stadium but I share concerns raised on here that it's similar geographically to your move which didnt go well. darlo is always my favourite away trip, great pubs and a short taxi ride to Blackwell, hope we can make the trips to see our clubs soon

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