Board Statement 15 Feb

Open now for discussion of all things Darlo!

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m62exile
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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by m62exile » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:18 pm

I’ll sleep very comfortably in bed if we continue in the Trophy and I wouldn’t find it contradictory to our statements either. I can understand why fans of rival clubs would have a whinge about it but that’s no reason not to go ahead. If we play, I’m all over it with bells on


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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by tdk1 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:30 pm

I feel like people disputing our ongoing involvement in the trophy have no interest in the rationale behind it, and just want to gripe about us because either a) they're fans of teams who don't like us, or b) they want to carry on the season as they think they might get promoted.

If somebody could give me a good reason for continuing that didn't basically consist of maintaining the integrity of a league which has absolutely sacrificed whatever integrity it had, I'd be all ears.

Some fans even seem to go, well you just want to make money from the trophy. Well, yeah. Obviously.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by en passant » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:31 pm

Anyone got any explanation for why, on BBC teletext, our match with Boston tomorrow is shown as A-A 'This match has been abandoned' rather than as Postponed which is how the other games that are not going ahead have been described? Do the BBC think that this game was arranged to complete the last few minutes of the original abandoned game?

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by en passant » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:34 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:30 pm
I feel like people disputing our ongoing involvement in the trophy have no interest in the rationale behind it, and just want to gripe about us because either a) they're fans of teams who don't like us, or b) they want to carry on the season as they think they might get promoted.

If somebody could give me a good reason for continuing that didn't basically consist of maintaining the integrity of a league which has absolutely sacrificed whatever integrity it had, I'd be all ears.

Some fans even seem to go, well you just want to make money from the trophy. Well, yeah. Obviously.
And these would be the same fans who want their team to be promoted to make more money. So no moral high ground there then.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by H1987 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:35 pm

I doubt we'd even make money out of playing the Trophy game, we'd probably just break even. The point being that we would like to play football without endangering the future financial stability of the club. The trophy, we can. If we continue in the league, we will drive the club into debt. That's the difference, and that's why we are doing what we are doing.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:36 pm

Disappointed to read some of these comments.

We as a club are effectively suspending league fixtures on the basis of a lack of adequate funding and lack of testing. Yet what we would be doing by participating in the FA Trophy is incurring additional costs via player/management wages, rent, testing etc for potentially little reward (£2k losers fee).

So, effectively, we will stop playing league fixtures from now, but we will come back if there is a sniff of making some money.

I’m not saying this is currently the club’s stance, but the fact people are comfortable with this potential approach is staggering.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:43 pm

H1987 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:35 pm
I doubt we'd even make money out of playing the Trophy game, we'd probably just break even. The point being that we would like to play football without endangering the future financial stability of the club. The trophy, we can. If we continue in the league, we will drive the club into debt. That's the difference, and that's why we are doing what we are doing.
I would urge you to consider how, in the eyes of the National League & FA, it will look if we postpone home fixtures against Boston & Fylde one week due to a lack of funding, but then can afford to make a loss on a FA Trophy tie.

The club - rightly - nailed its colours to the mast today.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by H1987 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:54 pm

What are you talking about? The whole point is financial. I'm simply pointing out we aren't even thinking of playing the Trophy game to make money, it's just that we can actually afford to play it without running the club into ruin. We obviously all want to see the club playing games, but there is a world of difference in running up massive bills playing every single game for no financial reward and with no support, and playing a one-off trophy game which *does* have financial support. Even if it means we just about break even. No one is pretending it's anything but a financial decision. We all want to see us play football, one competition will allow us to do that without indenting the club. One won't. It's that simple.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by en passant » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:56 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:36 pm


So, effectively, we will stop playing league fixtures from now, but we will come back if there is a sniff of making some money.
Isn't this the point of all football. It is not played for esoteric reasons but in the hope that success will lead to pounds in the bank. Some will search for that in a promotion and others in a cup run. Some clubs will sell the family silver to achieve success at any price, others will act more prudently and aim to survive. There is no more principle in one or the other, just the balance sheet at the end of the season.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:02 pm

Darlofan97, I see your point but don’t agree. If the league is null and void, which is looking very probable, then playing these two league games is pointless and could lead to injuries to players. Is it right to ask players to participate in meaningless games?

Meanwhile the Trophy game does have a point.

It’s not an ideal situation but we are in it through no fault of our own.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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H1987
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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by H1987 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:03 pm

en passant wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:56 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:36 pm


So, effectively, we will stop playing league fixtures from now, but we will come back if there is a sniff of making some money.
Isn't this the point of all football. It is not played for esoteric reasons but in the hope that success will lead to pounds in the bank. Some will search for that in a promotion and others in a cup run. Some clubs will sell the family silver to achieve success at any price, others will act more prudently and aim to survive. There is no more principle in one or the other, just the balance sheet at the end of the season.
I actually don't think we're in it to make money here, nor in general. We want to play football, but not at the expense of the club going bust. I'd be fairly certain that unless we somehow made it to Wembley, we wouldn't make a lot of money out of the Trophy anyway as it's all behind closed doors. Even if we make it to Wembley, it'd be a fraction of the money we would make in an ordinary season.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:12 pm

TOFC, I see other points too. I am playing devils advocate.

My posts are only with the worry that perhaps the club’s reputation will take a hit should it selectively choose which fixtures to play, and also find itself in a difficult position in front of an independent panel, explaining why it didn’t have enough cash in the bank one week to play Boston, but had enough the next to play Hornchurch.

The situation is not our fault, you are correct, however today we took the decision to not fulfil our next league fixture. With that comes sanctions and consequences.

Let’s hope Step 2 is null & voided anyway, rendering this conversation and debate pointless.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:14 pm

en passant wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:56 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:36 pm


So, effectively, we will stop playing league fixtures from now, but we will come back if there is a sniff of making some money.
Isn't this the point of all football. It is not played for esoteric reasons but in the hope that success will lead to pounds in the bank. Some will search for that in a promotion and others in a cup run. Some clubs will sell the family silver to achieve success at any price, others will act more prudently and aim to survive. There is no more principle in one or the other, just the balance sheet at the end of the season.
No.

There is no league table for profit-making and there is a reason for that.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:22 pm

DF97. It’s tricky I agree. I know others who aren’t happy about this cup/league situation but I think DJ is being strong and keeping our options open. We’re not in a popularity contest here and it could work out okay(ish)
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Darlofan97 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:27 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:22 pm
DF97. It’s tricky I agree. I know others who aren’t happy about this cup/league situation but I think DJ is being strong and keeping our options open. We’re not in a popularity contest here and it could work out okay(ish)
Yes, as a club we have played it brilliantly so far and have stood up for not just our own interests, but for the long-term interests of other clubs that would otherwise find themselves bullied by bigger clubs or the league.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by en passant » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:30 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:14 pm
en passant wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:56 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:36 pm


So, effectively, we will stop playing league fixtures from now, but we will come back if there is a sniff of making some money.
Isn't this the point of all football. It is not played for esoteric reasons but in the hope that success will lead to pounds in the bank. Some will search for that in a promotion and others in a cup run. Some clubs will sell the family silver to achieve success at any price, others will act more prudently and aim to survive. There is no more principle in one or the other, just the balance sheet at the end of the season.
No.

There is no league table for profit-making and there is a reason for that.
I give up.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by lo36789 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:04 am

Darlofan97 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:36 pm
We as a club are effectively suspending league fixtures on the basis of a lack of adequate funding and lack of testing. Yet what we would be doing by participating in the FA Trophy is incurring additional costs via player/management wages, rent, testing etc for potentially little reward (£2k losers fee).

So, effectively, we will stop playing league fixtures from now, but we will come back if there is a sniff of making some money.
I think it comes down to how we justify it, if it comes to pass that we don't participate in league games around the trophy game.

- Testing. If we play in the trophy we have to conduct testing.
- Cost / Revenue. We don't need to publish the figure but if trophy participation 'losses' are reduced (No ST streams / more interest than a normal stream / losers prize) there is logic.
- Competition Integrity. Simply put we can see one competition through to the end without jeopardising the financial future of the club, we can't with the league season. One has a live vote to null and void the competition results the other does not.

I don't even think the winners prize would actually cover our costs of competing, so it is more a case of cutting our losses whilst trying to see competitions to a finish.

We should definitely avoid the rationale of we don't want to play in the NL because if incompetent management. Unless we can demonstrate / justify how supportive the FA have been...

Given the FA stance on their competitions has been "we don't care if clubs have to pull out, we only get our sponsorship money from later round" and kept the entry fees from clubs who didn't even get to play a game in the very earliest rounds due to the way the draw was done for steps 5!

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:51 am

Just as a little point, the players!

They have put a good effort into getting this far in the Trophy, including knocking out teams from a higher division. They know that by winning one more winnable game they will be in a cup semi final and have a chance of going to Wembley. These are the games that motivate players and if we pull out voluntarily it will create a right downer for them.

As for the league, it has turned into a complete shambles. We've had no funding since the start of the year. The league have seen this coming since before then but are not capable of organising anything at all to help, they truly are the rudderless ship.

We should not let the ineptness of the league take away our chance of continuing in the cup. What will or won't happen in the league will not be influenced by us keeping our cup run going, and as has been pointed out on this thread, continuing in the cup won't be a huge earner, it might not be an earner at all.

And back to the players again. The league is looking very much like it will be cancelled. Do we want to send out a team of players expecting them to give it their all in pointless fixtures? You know, just play two games for no reason and carry the risk of being injured, especially against Boston!! The League situation must be resolved before anything else, league games at present are meaningless whilst the cup game isn't.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Old Git
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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Old Git » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:43 am

I am in agreement with the stance taken on refusing to play Boston from a financial and moral viewpoint. However I think we are wrong to pick and choose which games we play in. For me if it is unsafe and unsound to play Boston the same principle applies to Hornchurch equally. All these attempts to justify playing in the FA Trophy are just wrong. If DFC is to maintain some integrity and honesty within the game we have to bite the bullet and withdraw from the Trophy as well. At least then we will not look like a bunch of hypocrites.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:40 am

I see your point O.G. but disagree.

The league have screwed us over, and so far we've been at their mercy. Let's not let them screw us over in something which falls outside their remit, as there's more to football than the national league and their cock ups. If we play the cup game, it could be seen as not hypocrisy - but sticking it to the League.

Hereford (I think) are in the same position?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by onewayup » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:45 am

I think we have to go as far as we can in the TROPHY, it's FA competition rules ,which are different from national league rules, I am led to believe. Financial rewards no matter how small is money into the club, the national league has no grant funding so no money comes into the club ,
The national league management cannot say whether the decisions they have taken are legal or not yet still want clubs to sacrifice themselves by going into debt maybe for a lot of clubs administration by trading insolvent, That is illegal in itself knowingly running an insolvent business.
Which is exactly why clubs are refusing to play in the national league N/S .the national league management has skewed everything from the original funding to now the rules of their own league ,there has got to be some accountability from the national league taking responsibility for massive potentially destructive decisions that they made before the national league kicked a ball at the beginning of this season. Miss information from them got the league started, had the correct information been given the national league season would not have started. It is as simple as that.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Makka Pakka » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:12 am

How is it that we can play in the trophy and not the league? Surely if we are playing at all (and training) then the players are being paid in full. If that's the case then we might as well play league games as we're paying the players anyway. Yes away trips cost money but will limited income from streaming home games and 50/50 cover that?.
"At a meeting held at the Grammar School on Friday last - Mr Phillip Wood M.A., in the chair - it was resolved to form an Association Football Club for Darlington and neighbourhood. The opinions of those present were so unanimous as to the desirability of this step, that a committee was formed to complete the organisation of the club, and Mr Craven, 17, Garden Street, was appointed secretary pro tem." - The Northern Echo, Monday 23rd July 1883

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:13 am

Re the cup, it's not a decision for now anyway and a lot can happen before that match comes round. For one the league could have permanently stopped.

This situation has gone much much deeper than us hoping to look good in front of the league. Their mismanagement will end up costing us about the same amount of money as the fans (us) raised in the BTB campaign. The League management can get stuffed for me.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:15 am

Makka Pakka wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:12 am
How is it that we can play in the trophy and not the league? Surely if we are playing at all (and training) then the players are being paid in full. If that's the case then we might as well play league games as we're paying the players anyway. Yes away trips cost money but will limited income from streaming home games and 50/50 cover that?.
Perhaps we lose money on home games? Perhaps the streaming income doesn't even cover the cost of renting the stadium? We're losing money that's for sure.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:17 am

onewayup wrote:I think we have to go as far as we can in the TROPHY, it's FA competition rules ,which are different from national league rules, I am led to believe. Financial rewards no matter how small is money into the club, the national league has no grant funding so no money comes into the club ,
The national league management cannot say whether the decisions they have taken are legal or not yet still want clubs to sacrifice themselves by going into debt maybe for a lot of clubs administration by trading insolvent, That is illegal in itself knowingly running an insolvent business.
Which is exactly why clubs are refusing to play in the national league N/S .the national league management has skewed everything from the original funding to now the rules of their own league ,there has got to be some accountability from the national league taking responsibility for massive potentially destructive decisions that they made before the national league kicked a ball at the beginning of this season. Miss information from them got the league started, had the correct information been given the national league season would not have started. It is as simple as that.
Absolutely agree with this100%, just fail to understand why some on here keep going on about withdrawing from the Trophy.Just leave it to DJ/CS and the rest of the board members to decide what's in the best interests of DFC and leave it at that

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Old Git » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:33 am

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:17 am
onewayup wrote:I think we have to go as far as we can in the TROPHY, it's FA competition rules ,which are different from national league rules, I am led to believe. Financial rewards no matter how small is money into the club, the national league has no grant funding so no money comes into the club ,
The national league management cannot say whether the decisions they have taken are legal or not yet still want clubs to sacrifice themselves by going into debt maybe for a lot of clubs administration by trading insolvent, That is illegal in itself knowingly running an insolvent business.
Which is exactly why clubs are refusing to play in the national league N/S .the national league management has skewed everything from the original funding to now the rules of their own league ,there has got to be some accountability from the national league taking responsibility for massive potentially destructive decisions that they made before the national league kicked a ball at the beginning of this season. Miss information from them got the league started, had the correct information been given the national league season would not have started. It is as simple as that.
Absolutely agree with this100%, just fail to understand why some on here keep going on about withdrawing from the Trophy.Just leave it to DJ/CS and the rest of the board members to decide what's in the best interests of DFC and leave it at that

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Because we are Darlo fans and are entitled to voice our opinions especially when many of us make a financial contribution towards running the club. As DFCSG members we are the majority shareholders and our views matter on such fundamental issues. Also this is a forum dedicated to fans views about the club. That’s why!

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Darlofan97 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:25 pm

Further information supporting the club's stance to refuse to take on loans from Sport England:

https://www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.c ... ver-loans/

Basically, it is a standardised rule across the leagues that means footballing creditors take precedence in the event of administration. The way that the loans from Sport England are currently structured, and being proposed, means that this rule is superseded and this Sport England debt takes precedence over footballing creditors, thus breaking league rules.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by Norm_D_Ploom » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:39 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:25 pm
Further information supporting the club's stance to refuse to take on loans from Sport England:

https://www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.c ... ver-loans/

Basically, it is a standardised rule across the leagues that means footballing creditors take precedence in the event of administration. The way that the loans from Sport England are currently structured, and being proposed, means that this rule is superseded and this Sport England debt takes precedence over footballing creditors, thus breaking league rules.
Quite rightly, given that it's in essence tax payers money.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by onewayup » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:00 pm

But I’m concentrating on trying to get ourselves through it so 66 clubs finish this season and, come the start of next season, we’ve got 66 clubs starting.A paragragh from mark ives statement in the non league paper.
How the hell can this season's games be fitted into such a short time frame ,
Unless they extend the season, I maybe jumping the gun but to me the way that the voting was setup was for the right decision wanted by national leagues management to come out on top.skewed by them for them. They will not accept responsibility for anything. When everyone knows exactly where the blame for this situation lies .who can make them accountable. It now stinks of master and servant. You do what you are told
Or face the consequences.

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Re: Board Statement 15 Feb

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:35 pm

onewayup wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:00 pm
But I’m concentrating on trying to get ourselves through it so 66 clubs finish this season and, come the start of next season, we’ve got 66 clubs starting.A paragragh from mark ives statement in the non league paper.
How the hell can this season's games be fitted into such a short time frame ,
Unless they extend the season, I maybe jumping the gun but to me the way that the voting was setup was for the right decision wanted by national leagues management to come out on top.skewed by them for them. They will not accept responsibility for anything. When everyone knows exactly where the blame for this situation lies .who can make them accountable. It now stinks of master and servant. You do what you are told
Or face the consequences.
I don't think Mark is up to the job. :thumbdown: It's taken him all this time to realise that the hugely unpopular loans "might" be breaking league rules. WTF! Surely the loans idea is dead and buried now anyway. There are probably 5 scenarios that could happen now, and each one will cause a major headache, but on saying this I have no confidence at all that him or anyone else are doing any serious planning for what shennangans will eventually follow on from when the vote is finally set free.

There are 66 football clubs affected by this crisis. Each one is important to their community and each one employs 20 -30 people and yet they have to rely on Mark.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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